[HN Gopher] Objective Bayesian Hypothesis Testing
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       Objective Bayesian Hypothesis Testing
        
       Author : rnburn
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2024-08-19 18:04 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.objectivebayesian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.objectivebayesian.com)
        
       | elmomle wrote:
       | When the author says "objective" they are referring to a prior
       | that gives equal weight to values within the null hypothesis and
       | to those without (along with a few other things: symmetric and
       | non-increasing away from the mean). I appreciate this approach,
       | and think there's much to commend it, but think that that's a key
       | thing to be aware of (because any use of "objective" when
       | referring to priors is, shall we say, dubious).
        
         | vcdimension wrote:
         | Yes, it would be nice to know how things change for different
         | weightings of the null and alternative priors.
        
       | vcdimension wrote:
       | This article is very interesting and informative, however it's a
       | bit ironic that an article about misinterpretations of the
       | meaning of the p-value, misinterprets the misinterpretation; in
       | the first blue box it's clear that Bernstein is interpreting the
       | p-value as the probability of randomly rejecting the null (which
       | is what you do when you get something statistically significant)
       | yet in the text following that they say he's interpreting it as
       | the probability of the null. Bernsteins mistake is that he
       | appears to interpret it as an unconditional probability rather
       | than a conditional one (correct interpretation; p-value =
       | Prob(rejecting the null when the null is true)).
        
         | null08 wrote:
         | Yes I had the same issue. But the wording "there is a < 5%
         | probability that an outcome was the result of chance" is in
         | fact problematic since many readers will go on to conclude
         | "hence a >95% probability that the outcome was not the result
         | of chance", so it is easier to misinterpret than the technical
         | definition P( Observation | H_0 ).
         | 
         | In courses I will typically use wordings like "If there was
         | truly no association, then the probability of getting an
         | observation like this is <5%".
        
         | kqr wrote:
         | > correct interpretation; p-value = Prob(rejecting the null
         | when the null is true)
         | 
         | This is also not quite correct. The p-value is the probability
         | of falsely rejecting the null _due to sampling error_. It is
         | quiet on all other errors that are frequently committed.
         | 
         | The real probability of falsely rejecting the null starts at 15
         | % thanks to mathematical slip-ups alone: https://two-
         | wrongs.com/the-lying-p-value
        
           | nalzok wrote:
           | > by kqr, published 2024-11-19
           | 
           | It's from the future! ;)
        
       | underlines wrote:
       | A great question that I came across in Hypothesis Driven
       | Development a long time ago: Should you use Frequentist
       | Statistics or Bayesian Statistics? It's relevant when you do A/B
       | or Multivariate Testing.
       | 
       | As it was very difficult for someone like me without higher stats
       | or math education, I can highly recommend the following
       | additional sources:
       | 
       | - https://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(21)03256-9/ful...
       | 
       | - https://amplitude.com/blog/frequentist-vs-bayesian-statistic...
       | 
       | - https://indico.cern.ch/event/568904/contributions/2651065/at...
        
         | shiandow wrote:
         | The Bayesian approach to A/B testing gives an interesting
         | example of how frequentists and Bayesian approaches can differ.
         | 
         | A frequentist approach tries to limit the probability that a
         | test setup will accept a 'false' result, one that could simply
         | arise by chance.
         | 
         | A Bayesian approach actually calculates the probability that a
         | test result could occur 'by chance'. You can then stop the test
         | at any point and be sure you only accept <x% of results that
         | could occur by chance, by the power of expectation values you
         | never breach the x% limit no matter how often you 'stop' the
         | test.
         | 
         | The interesting thing is that while these would seem to be very
         | similar, there actually isn't anything stopping the Bayesian
         | approach from accepting _any_ test _eventually_. Giving it 0
         | statistical power in the frequentist sense. The only thing the
         | Bayesian approach ensures is that for any  'false' test you
         | accept after time T there are many more that will keep running.
        
           | Vecr wrote:
           | Why would you care about that though? Calculate the odds
           | between your hypotheses, not the probability you'd ever see
           | one.
        
             | shiandow wrote:
             | The Bayesian stance is that you should not care. The
             | frequentist stance is that a test that has a p-value of 1
             | is the worst possible.
             | 
             | My stance is that you should know why to care about either.
             | Oh and that the thing you're calculating an expected value
             | off should somehow contribute _linearly_ to your profits
             | /costs, averages do strange things to nonlinear functions.
        
               | LegionMammal978 wrote:
               | Eh, even an expected value that's linear with respect to
               | profits can end up with strange results like the St.
               | Petersburg paradox. In general, naively maximizing it
               | breaks down at the point where you stop being insensitive
               | to the possible risks.
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | Off topic but topical: Mike Lynch's yacht was named "Bayesian"
        
         | vcdimension wrote:
         | So I guess we'll never know the p-value of that event...
        
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