[HN Gopher] When Nothing Ever Goes Out of Print: Maintaining Bac...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       When Nothing Ever Goes Out of Print: Maintaining Backlist Ebooks
       (2016)
        
       Author : tomodachi94
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2024-08-16 00:45 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (teresaelsey.medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (teresaelsey.medium.com)
        
       | drakonka wrote:
       | I only skimmed this, have not yet read in great detail, but it
       | made me think about backlists in indie publishing.
       | 
       | This is a thing for self-published authors as well, only we tend
       | to take a more optimistic view on the backlist: a large backlist
       | is more of a benefit than a challenge. It is necessary to keep
       | putting out new books of course to get new visibility, but income
       | stability comes not from readers buying your shiny new book - it
       | comes from them buying _all of your other books_ after they read
       | and enjoy the shiny new book. The backlist is generally
       | considered king for a sustainable self-publishing career.
       | 
       | It does come with maintenance, however. As the post mentions, my
       | early books are just not very good. Heck my new books are not
       | very good either, but they're better than my early books.
       | Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be
       | refreshed once in a while. It is work - but a large backlist is
       | in the end what keeps you afloat.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | > Likewise, covers and blurbs go out of date and need to be
         | refreshed once in a while.
         | 
         | Why? The reader understand that they are from another time.
        
           | drakonka wrote:
           | Genre fiction readers usually do not want something that
           | obviously comes from another time. They want something that
           | is just unique enough to catch the eye, but largely similar
           | to whatever cover trends are currently popular.
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | I think you completely misunderstand.
             | 
             | The people who want to read the complete Travis McGee
             | series don't want updated covers. They want complete
             | metadata and good search tools, so they can figure out that
             | The Long Lavender Look comes before A Tan and Sandy
             | Silence. The folks who are trying to hunt down ebooks of
             | all the non-Fleming James Bond novels don't care much about
             | the covers.
             | 
             | And if your epub reader software doesn't allow you to
             | change the CSS to your own preferences, it's badly under-
             | featured.
             | 
             | "Obviously comes from another time" is either a non-issue
             | or a feature, not a bug.
        
               | drakonka wrote:
               | I'm sure this is true for some (maybe even many) readers,
               | but this simply is not reflective of the larger genre
               | fiction market today.
               | 
               | Most genre fiction authors, even those making a great
               | living, are not writing the next Travis McGee - they're
               | writing thrillers, mysteries, or romance series that will
               | not get Wikipedia pages or be turned into TV adaptations.
               | Readers will not discover their books thinking "Oh yeah,
               | Series X by that Obscure Author Y, I want to read that
               | specifically."
               | 
               | Instead, they will stumble across a book in their chosen
               | genre on their Amazon search (or top 100 list) or a
               | BookBub promo. At best, they'll see a recommendation on
               | TikTok or a readers facebook group. Hopefully that book
               | will catch their interest with a solid on-market cover
               | and blurb. They will read it, and then (hopefully) check
               | out the rest of the author's backlist from there -
               | judging those books' blurbs and covers as well. If the
               | author is lucky and skilled, the reader will turn into a
               | superfan and sign up for their newsletter, making it
               | easier to sell them new books in the future.
        
           | squidbeak wrote:
           | The same reason you repaint your fence occasionally.
        
             | ses1984 wrote:
             | Your covers lose their protective coating and will rot due
             | to moisture?
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | That's not what they meant, but... yes, I suppose that is
               | something that could happen to a book cover.
        
       | daveoc64 wrote:
       | A very interesting read!
       | 
       | Hyperlinks are a particularly challenging area.
        
       | alexey-salmin wrote:
       | > And here is a lovely classic children's book -- from 1960 --
       | that's about two little girls, and a witch, who has a baby, and a
       | spelling bee, an actual bee that spells things. And there's a
       | minor part of the story where the girls are putting on their
       | Halloween costumes, and one is a witch, and the other is "a
       | little Chinese girl ... and she had makeup on her face."
       | 
       | > I think we agree at this point that a nationality is not a
       | super-cool Halloween costume, but I'm not clear on whether
       | Clarissa's putting on yellowface or has just borrowed her
       | mother's lipstick. And so how do we handle this? This is not
       | Huckleberry Finn -- it's not a book about race, where we talk
       | about the history and the controversy. Should we be concerned
       | with this type of incidental racism in an ebook that we're
       | selling today, one that looks just like the new, and hopefully
       | more enlightened, children's ebooks we're publishing in 2015?
       | 
       | That's something I never understood: rewriting books from the
       | past to match recent cultural trends. What happened happened,
       | whether you like it or not. (I also don't really get the
       | Halloween costume controversy, but I acknowledge there's
       | something to debate there, unlike with the history-rewriting
       | topic which is just dumb).
        
         | freddie_mercury wrote:
         | You really don't understand why editors decided to rename
         | Agatha Christie's 1939 book _Ten Little Niggers_ in 1985?
         | 
         | Or is that a "recent cultural trend" where you can understand
         | why publishers followed the trend and made a change?
         | 
         | Because once someone admits _that_ change was okay, it 's no
         | longer a question of principles and just a series of judgment
         | calls that different people will make differently.
         | 
         | Publishers make changes to ensure books keep selling.
         | 
         | They are human and don't always make the right decision. But
         | they aren't doing it for any reason other than profit.
         | 
         | My daughters are Asian I wouldn't buy them a children's book
         | where "be Chinese" is considered an acceptable Halloween
         | costume.
         | 
         | The publishers would probably prefer I consider purchasing it.
        
           | GJim wrote:
           | Her book was based on a poem of the same name, written in the
           | 1800's, in which ten children come to an untimely death.
           | 
           | Famously, Christie set out to deliberately write her most
           | technically challenging book, having ten people murdered on
           | an island in a manner in keeping with the poem, whilst still
           | keeping the reader guessing whodunnit. Most readers agree it
           | was her best book by far.
           | 
           | The idea that the book is racist simply because of it's title
           | is a rather modern phenomena (not to mention changing the
           | title and poem somewhat hides her original challenge).
        
             | alpinisme wrote:
             | Nobody in this thread has said the book is racist. The
             | question was whether you can see the motivation of
             | retitling from a publishers (or for that matter
             | booksellers) perspective. If you want people to buy the
             | book, the old name is a turn off whether the content is
             | raciest or not.
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > If you want people to buy the book, the old name is a
               | turn off whether the content is raciest or not.
               | 
               | This depends on the audience. For some people it _is_ a
               | turn off to adopt the title to a woke zeitgeist.
        
               | alpinisme wrote:
               | You're right of course. Some people will buy the non-woke
               | title as a protest vote of sorts. And others will go out
               | of their way to get an old copy out of a non-political
               | sense of loyalty (some of these people were already
               | buying the book as a historical object though and would
               | have preferred a used copy to start).
               | 
               | But it is not just about people buying the book knowing
               | it changed, or buying it because it changed. It's about
               | coming across a title like that cold, without knowing any
               | context. (Remember: the aspiration of a publisher is
               | always to have the book become more popular with new
               | formerly uninterested audiences). It's an empirical
               | question whether that title will do better than a retitle
               | but my money is on the title without the most fraught
               | words in the English language on the cover.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | Yeah but I tend not to care about the opinions of people
               | who wish racial slurs had a more prominent place in
               | modern society.
               | 
               | It is, if nothing else, convenient that I don't have to
               | say one of the worst slurs in American English every time
               | I discuss Agatha Christie's body of work.
               | 
               | It's worth noting that, for that reason, the book was
               | released as "And Then There Were None" in its first US
               | edition in 1940; the use of the original title until 1985
               | is a UK thing.
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > Yeah but I tend not to care about the opinions of
               | people who wish racial slurs had a more prominent place
               | in modern society.
               | 
               | But I _do_ tend to care about the opinions of people who
               | wish that works of the past are not manipulated to fit
               | the current zeitgeist - in particular if it is claimed or
               | suggest that this is the work as written by the author.
        
               | GJim wrote:
               | > who wish racial slurs had a more prominent place in
               | modern society.
               | 
               | Nobody is wishing they had a more prominent place today,
               | nor in the future. Rather, there is a need not to edit
               | the past, lest we forget it.
               | 
               | > "And Then There Were None" in its first US edition in
               | 1940; the use of the original title until 1985 is a UK
               | thing.
               | 
               | I suggest that is because in the USA, particularly in the
               | south, political sensitivities about such a title would
               | be difficult to overcome and the association with an old
               | British poem would be completely lost.
        
               | bloak wrote:
               | > the association with an old British poem
               | 
               | Wait, are you sure about that? Wikipedia says "an 1869
               | minstrel song". I had assumed it was a song from the USA
               | that happened to be fairly well known in Britain.
               | 
               | Also I have the impression that the word "nigger" is not
               | traditional in British English. The first time I came
               | across the word was when reading Mark Twain. I had
               | previously heard several words used for referring to
               | darker-skinned people but not that one. Of course that's
               | just my experience from one part of the country.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | > Yeah but I tend not to care about the opinions of
               | people who wish racial slurs had a more prominent place
               | in modern society.
               | 
               | As a black American, I'm forced to care about the efforts
               | of people to retcon pervasive racism out of history, or
               | relegate it to one-dimensional "bad guys." This will not
               | save my children from racism, instead it will make them
               | absolutely bewildered by the pervasive racism they will
               | face, and make them blame themselves.
               | 
               | Rewriting crimes out of history does not help victims, it
               | helps perpetrators.
        
             | freddie_mercury wrote:
             | Who said the title implied the book was racist? Nobody said
             | that, you're making things up.
             | 
             | You just don't put that word on the cover of a book due to
             | "changing cultural trends"
        
               | GJim wrote:
               | Your last sentence contradicts your first!
        
               | Geezus_42 wrote:
               | No, it doesn't.
        
           | aleph_minus_one wrote:
           | > My daughters are Asian I wouldn't buy them a children's
           | book where "be Chinese" is considered an acceptable Halloween
           | costume.
           | 
           | There also exist people who would rather avoid buying books
           | where the publisher changed the content in 1984 style to
           | appease the woke moaners.
        
             | GJim wrote:
             | It's sad to see your factual statement downvoted.
             | 
             | There was indeed a _huge_ backlash in the UK, amongst
             | authors and the public, when publishers sought to edit
             | classic children 's books by Roald Dahl and Enid Blyton to
             | make them politically correct. Children a quite capable of
             | understanding something was written at a different time.
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > Children a quite capable of understanding something was
               | written at a different time.
               | 
               | Even if some person is certain that this is not the case,
               | the child's parents hopefully _are_ capable of explaining
               | this to their children. :-)
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | Even if it was the case, but it is kind of massively
               | easier to pick a book where you do not have to explain
               | that.
               | 
               | Sometimes you just want to read a book and children books
               | are not all that much fun for adults anyway. You might
               | not want to then have to go into explaining that racism
               | was normal for the author, but we think differently jadda
               | jadda ... it is additional completely pointless
               | complication for what was supposed to be good night
               | story.
        
               | GJim wrote:
               | I could not disagree with you more.
               | 
               | It is something you will need to explain to children at
               | some point, and doing so over a light hearted story is an
               | ideal approach. Shying away from the difficulties of
               | bringing up a child isn't something you should be doing.
               | 
               | Besides, the _best_ children 's books are also fun for
               | adults! (I raise you Roald Dahl's 'Boy' and Judith Kerr's
               | 'The Tiger Who Came to Tea')
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | > the best children's books are also fun for adults!
               | 
               | Also Kipling's Just So stories. My eldest loved me to
               | read them to him and it was no chore at all.
        
               | 47282847 wrote:
               | If you do not find it fun to read with your children and
               | enjoy the stories equally you may want to consider
               | picking different books or doing something else with
               | them. They will pick up on it, and grow up to think you
               | do not like to spend time with them - and later take that
               | "truth" turned core belief to other relationships.
        
             | boesboes wrote:
             | If only those people would read
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | The people who secretly rewrite literature do not take a
               | vote from readers before they do it. They "know better."
               | They'll tell you that it's really just administrative,
               | they're "updating the language."
        
             | dml2135 wrote:
             | Also consider that maybe the parent comment would not have
             | bought the book in 1984 either, for the same reason.
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > Also consider that maybe the parent comment would not
               | have bought the book in 1984 either, for the same reason.
               | 
               | With 1984, I meant the book by George Orwell where
               | newspaper articles of the past are permanently changed
               | (and any references to the existence of the old versions
               | are destroyed) to fit the daily political
               | climate/narrative.
        
               | GJim wrote:
               | > would not have bought the book in 1984 either
               | 
               | In a conversation about censorship being used to alter
               | past events, I'm somewhat surprised you didn't understand
               | the reference. Can I suggest this is a book you read as a
               | matter of some importance:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
        
             | NeoTar wrote:
             | There is a difference between consciously erasing the past
             | in the 1984-novel style, and re-releasing an updated
             | version of a book. The important thing being that the
             | original texts are still available - we aren't seizing
             | original editions from homes and burning them.
             | 
             | Admittedly that's actually a more complicated when it comes
             | to electronic texts which may be automatically updated.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Sure, perhaps you rename the book, and maybe they even
           | changed the word inside the book. The term is accidental (as
           | far as I know) to the mystery and the story.
           | 
           | But removing _nigger_ from Huckleberry Finn would greatly
           | destroy the purpose and means of _that_ work - someone has to
           | make that decision and weigh it.
        
         | GJim wrote:
         | I fail to understand why a story about a child innocently
         | dressing up as someone from another culture is perceived by
         | some Americans as racist.
        
           | alpinisme wrote:
           | It's never really resonated with me either. But I think this
           | thread has a good example in it: a patent not wanting their
           | child to read a book in which people consider "you" to be an
           | acceptable costume (making you feel strange or uncomfortable,
           | since kids often don't like being singled out or noted as
           | different -- especially not in a way meant to exaggerate and
           | lean in to stereotypes). This is doubly true when the kids
           | may already feel self conscious about their race due to any
           | existing racism they personally encounter in the society.
        
             | themaninthedark wrote:
             | Counterpoint: St. Paddy's day - where a lot of people dress
             | up and claim to be Irish.
             | 
             | Or when someone dresses up as a 1920 gangster, just always
             | happen to Italian...
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | It's really the same rule of thumb of stand-up comedy:
               | punching up vs punching down. Western European and North
               | American pan-national stereotypes are typically
               | comfortably 'up' (though targeting specific ethnicities
               | can become 'down').
        
             | dacryn wrote:
             | ah come on. It's halloween. Brothers dress up as their
             | sisters, sisters dress up as their brothers, kids dress up
             | as their neighbours.
             | 
             | You are an acceptable costume. Face it. But context
             | matters. The reading kid is not singled out, nobody is
             | making this negative. It could also be perceived as a
             | celebration 'hey I want to be like my adopted asian sister,
             | she is cool'.
             | 
             | Live and let live, and give context if the kid is asking
             | questions. But don't censor because you feel like a special
             | snowflake
        
               | hoten wrote:
               | Kids dress up as their siblings?
        
           | b3ing wrote:
           | It's about thinking of people stereotypically, there might be
           | a way to do it not so bad but it never is
           | 
           | See these examples
           | 
           | https://www.culturalsurvival.org/sites/default/files/nmai-
           | sp...
           | 
           | http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/browbeat/2013/1.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://risetowin.org/assets/img/what-we-
           | do/educate/resource...
        
         | bdw5204 wrote:
         | One reason why authors should self-publish is to prevent their
         | books from being bowdlerized by the publisher in the future.
         | You can't predict what will cause future "morality enforcers"
         | to faint. Self publishing also means you can publish things
         | that the current "sensitivity readers" (i.e. censors) would
         | never let you publish.
         | 
         | Of course, this isn't foolproof because your descendants or
         | heirs might also be willing to bowdlerize your work or even
         | take it out of print altogether. So another option would be to
         | just release all of your copyrighted works into the public
         | domain upon your death allowing anybody who cares to publish
         | uncensored copies.
        
       | djoldman wrote:
       | > And sometimes we're not sure if what we're seeing even is an
       | error. The following passage, from Philip K. Dick, displays a lot
       | of creative use of language, but the "zommed" in the third line
       | -- while matching the print book -- seems a bit suspect. Should
       | it be "zoomed"? How can we know?
       | 
       | Strictly for possible typos: if the author is alive, ask them,
       | otherwise leave it.
       | 
       | > Sometimes a book is completely accurate at the time of
       | publication, but becomes factually inaccurate over time, giving
       | the wrong dates for the beginning of daylight saving time or an
       | incorrect planetary status for Pluto.
       | 
       | > Should we fix these factual errors? Do we need the author's
       | input? What if the author is dead, the agent is retired, and the
       | editor has left the company? Should we fix them silently or with
       | some kind of editorial note?
       | 
       | > Then there's the case where the content of a book is not
       | incorrect, per se, but may have become outmoded or offensive....
       | What do you do here? Do you update the language that's incidental
       | to the content of the book? Does it matter who you think is
       | buying this -- whether it's people who want the diet advice or
       | people who are researching the historic participation of Asian
       | Americans in diet programs?
       | 
       | No. A book should capture an author's intent/concept/idea at the
       | time it was written and those intents/concepts/ideas should be
       | frozen.
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Back in college, I recall a professor saying that German
         | students of philosophy would learn English to be able to read
         | Nietzsche in translation rather than as it was written. (Upon
         | reflection, it might have been Kant -
         | https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/28743 )
         | 
         | My latin was too rusty to be able to read Meditations on First
         | Philosophy as it was written. (
         | https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/23306 ).
         | 
         | A translation from Latin to English (
         | https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosop...
         | ) necessarily changes those intents/concepts/ideas into those
         | that the reader is more familiar with.
         | 
         | A translation from English of 1000 AD to 2000 AD has the same
         | necessary changes
         | http://www.hieronymus.us.com/latinweb/Mediaevum/Beowulf.htm
         | 
         | Is it ok to read Liu Cixin's work San Ti  as Ken Liu's
         | translation known to the English speaking word as The Three-
         | Body Problem? Or should I learn Chinese and immerse myself in
         | the culture of China in order to read it with those intents /
         | concepts / ideas as things frozen on paper?
         | 
         | There are two problems - the book captured at its time may not
         | be accessible anymore. Secondly, even if you can read the words
         | it may be that the words those concepts map to in today's
         | language are not the concepts that the author intended.
         | 
         | So... how short of a time frame is not _not_ acceptable to read
         | the work in translation?
         | 
         | I hold that a translation across time is not really any
         | different than a translation of a modern work across languages
         | and cultures.
        
           | djoldman wrote:
           | This isn't a problem.
           | 
           | The translation is a new work.
           | 
           | The original work in the original language stays frozen.
           | 
           | Incidentally, the translation is treated the same and is
           | frozen in the same manner.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Exactly. And each offers its own perspective and has its
             | own value.
             | 
             | Sure, if you could only have _one_ you 'd want the original
             | work in the original language, but that isn't as accessible
             | as translations and other enhancements/improvements.
             | 
             | For example, _Euclid 's Elements_ in the original language
             | has no diagrams; almost every translation and even reprints
             | with the original have diagrams added. And those diagrams
             | haven't been without controversy, either.
        
             | evilduck wrote:
             | Individual beliefs aside, the Christian Bible makes for a
             | fascinating case study in book translations. Some
             | translations are modern takes on an existing language
             | translation like translating the King James Bible into
             | modern English as literally as possible, while some take
             | their own liberties with interpreting the original text as
             | it was written and come up with somewhat dramatically
             | different results. Translations between languages with
             | dramatically different language syntax and grammars exists,
             | as well as abridged snippets and (probably) millions of
             | derivative texts used for lessons and teaching. And it's
             | been going on for over a millennium, so we get perspectives
             | on the cultures and languages themselves dramatically
             | changing over time too.
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | > Individual beliefs aside, the Christian Bible makes for
               | a fascinating case study in book translations.
               | 
               | The start of the gospel of John is one that is
               | particularly thought provoking for me because we can more
               | easily grasp the meaning of the original words.
               | 
               | https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/1/1/t_conc_998001
               | 
               | En arkhe en o logos kai o logos en pros ton theon kai
               | theos en o logos.
               | 
               | en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros theos kai ho
               | logos en theos.
               | 
               | In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
               | and the Word was God.
               | 
               | And you'll note in that logos has been translated to
               | "Word". But logos means such _more_ than just  "word"
               | (the word for _word_ is lexis lexis). Logos, as
               | understood in Greek philosophy was
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
               | 
               | > Ancient Greek philosophers used the term in different
               | ways. The sophists used the term to mean "discourse".
               | Aristotle applied the term to refer to "reasoned
               | discourse" or "the argument" in the field of rhetoric,
               | and considered it one of the three modes of persuasion
               | alongside ethos and pathos. Pyrrhonist philosophers used
               | the term to refer to dogmatic accounts of non-evident
               | matters. The Stoics spoke of the logos spermatikos (the
               | generative principle of the Universe) which foreshadows
               | related concepts in Neoplatonism.
               | 
               | This was relating the philosophy of the Greeks (even then
               | a couple of hundred of years old) to that of the early
               | forms of Christianity.
               | 
               | I would contend that "In the beginning was the [ability
               | to reason, link the rational nature of the universe to
               | rational discourse]" ... but that doesn't fit well in
               | translation or even liner notes. And so, we're left with
               | the word "Word".
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | One of the late night Bay Area public TV programs (not
               | sure if it was KQED or KTEH) had a once a week program
               | back in the late 90s / early 00s that was a verse by
               | verse bible study looking at the oldest forms of the text
               | and looking at specific word meanings like rasah https://
               | www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7523/kjv/wlc/0-1/ and
               | harag https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h2026/kjv/w
               | lc/0-1/ - where they are used (you'll note the contexts
               | are different while one is killing in general, the other
               | is a specific type of killing).
               | 
               | Anyways... it was an interesting program that had a lot
               | of linguistic study of ancient languages with the Bible
               | as the text being translated.
        
               | 47282847 wrote:
               | Why not translate it as "consciousness"? Seems quite
               | obvious to me?
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | It likely came that way via the Vulgate (
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate ) which was a
               | translation of Greek into Latin in the fourth century. It
               | was the official Catholic version in 1545 - 1563 (the KJV
               | was translated in 1611).
               | 
               | in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus
               | erat Verbum
               | 
               | Though going back to logos - even that word changed
               | meaning over the the centuries from Heraclitus (5th
               | century BC) ( https://chs.harvard.edu/chapter/17-the-
               | heraclitean-logos/
               | https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2015/12/logos-of-
               | hera... https://modernstoicism.com/heraclitus-and-the-
               | birth-of-the-l... ) to the neoplatonist school (3rd
               | century AD)
               | 
               | The early Christian church traditions were a battlefield
               | of dueling scriptures and philosophies.
               | 
               | Some books that I'd recommend on that area. Note that my
               | approach to the Bible isn't one of a believer but rather
               | as another work of ancient philosophy (which was my
               | favorite philosophy class of my almost not getting a CS
               | degree) and stoicism is the branch within there that I've
               | read the most of.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Stoicism-Early-Christianity-
               | Tuomas-Ra...
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Christianities-Battles-
               | Scripture...
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Scriptures-Books-that-
               | Testament/...
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | I've often wondered if Greeks were at a disadvantage in
           | reading Homer since they would have the choice of reading
           | either the essentially foreign original text or what would
           | feel like a bowdlerization as a modernized text, while
           | translations to other languages wouldn't have that same
           | negative association connected to them.
        
             | alexey-salmin wrote:
             | Funny thing is the original _text_ probably didn't even
             | exist. Mainstream theory is that Iliad was a purely oral
             | tradition at first and was written down (not written) a few
             | decades or centuries later. The sack of Troy happened
             | shortly before the Late Bronze Age Collapse which among
             | other things destroyed the Greek writing system now known
             | as the Linear Script B. The Greek Alphabet had only
             | appeared 3 centuries later and the period in between is
             | often referred as the "Greek Dark Ages", since there was no
             | writing system for the Greek language at that time.
             | 
             | One way to see Iliad is as a bard's song about lost good
             | time before the apocalypse -- when Greek cities were
             | mighty, trade flourishing, armies big etc.
        
             | mcguire wrote:
             | Don't forget that you're not reading the text as it was
             | originally written; the surviving texts are copies of
             | copies. Reconstructing, partially, the original text is
             | possible if you have many downstream copies from different
             | sources but never perfect.
        
           | scarmig wrote:
           | Douglas Hofstadter (of _Godel, Escher, Bach_ fame) has
           | written a whole lot about this and related questions.
           | _Translator, Trader_ is a great essay (my favorite work of
           | his) that anyone who thinks about translation and its
           | implications a lot should check out.
        
         | allturtles wrote:
         | > Sometimes a book is completely accurate at the time of
         | publication, but becomes factually inaccurate over time, giving
         | the wrong dates for the beginning of daylight saving time or an
         | incorrect planetary status for Pluto.
         | 
         | > Should we fix these factual errors? Do we need the author's
         | input? What if the author is dead, the agent is retired, and
         | the editor has left the company? Should we fix them silently or
         | with some kind of editorial note?
         | 
         | I think it's bizarre to call the "factual errors" at all. Would
         | you alter a book from 1958 that "incorrectly" refers to
         | Eisenhower as the current U.S. President? Such "fixes" would be
         | a defacement of the historical record, flattening all of time
         | into a perpetual now.
        
           | NeoTar wrote:
           | It depends on the book.
           | 
           | If it is a novel, then clearly not. A fact-book, that lists
           | the current heads-of-state of all world nations, then
           | possibly yes.
           | 
           | It's ultimately a decision for the author/publisher for each
           | book. Is this a living text that should be kept up-to-date,
           | or a historical record - after all, a book which lists all of
           | the heads-of-state in 1958 is _also_ valuable for different
           | contexts.
           | 
           | Perhaps more importantly - if a book says something dangerous
           | - like a cook-book saying "add a few flakes of cyanide for
           | flavour" is _that_ grounds for an update, or editors note in
           | an otherwise historical record text?
        
             | GJim wrote:
             | > A fact-book, that lists the current heads-of-state of all
             | world nations, then possibly yes.
             | 
             | It's a book, not a web page!
             | 
             | I have old astronomy books that indicate the visual
             | appearance of Mars changes due to seasonal vegetation! This
             | was obviously updated in later editions; the old edition
             | remains as an important historical record of what we once
             | thought.
             | 
             | > if a book says something dangerous
             | 
             | Old editions of the 'Home Doctor' recommended using petrol
             | to treat headlice. Granted this is probably more dangerous
             | than the advice given by some modern heath guru's diet
             | books.
        
               | ewoodrich wrote:
               | > I have old astronomy books that indicate the visual
               | appearance of Mars changes due to seasonal vegetation!
               | 
               | Well that's fascinating, do you happen to have an example
               | of such a textbook that could be found online?
        
             | allturtles wrote:
             | > A fact-book, that lists the current heads-of-state of all
             | world nations, then possibly yes.
             | 
             | If you want to sell an up-to-date, 2024 factbook, you
             | should commission one. Providing up-to-date fact books is
             | not a function that a back catalog can or should serve. You
             | shouldn't take a 1950s fact book and try to make some ham-
             | handed edits to it and sell it as if it's the same book.
             | 
             | > if a book says something dangerous - like a cook-book
             | saying "add a few flakes of cyanide for flavour" is that
             | grounds for an update, or editors note in an otherwise
             | historical record text?
             | 
             | If a publisher feels that issuing a particular book in
             | ebook form would be injurious to the public, than they are
             | certainly within their rights to not issue it. Or to add an
             | editorial note "This book is for historical interest only,
             | don't try to use the recipes, because for some reason the
             | author was trying to kill all their readers." Again there
             | are a zillion cookbooks and it's not hard to get someone to
             | write a new one.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | I'm reminded of the (canceled) edition of Salinger's _Hapworth
         | 16, 1924_ where Salinger insisted that the text be reproduced
         | exactly as it was in _The New Yorker_ including any typos that
         | appeared there.
        
         | everforward wrote:
         | > No. A book should capture an author's intent/concept/idea at
         | the time it was written and those intents/concepts/ideas should
         | be frozen.
         | 
         | Given that we're talking about ebooks, whose readers generally
         | have some kind of navigation system, I think it would be
         | reasonable to include a footnote. If a book says Pluto is a
         | planet, I wouldn't mind a [1] linking to a note that says
         | "Pluto has not been considered a planet since $year.
         | $LinkToWikipedia".
         | 
         | I agree that actually changing the content is a bad idea, but I
         | do think it would be valuable to link to up-to-date information
         | in a non-intrusive manner.
        
         | HalfRadish wrote:
         | This captures a new problem that's sort of sneaked in with the
         | advent of digital publishing.
         | 
         | In a print book, you can make corrections or revisions in a new
         | edition, but the old edition is still potentially out there, in
         | libraries and private collections, preserving its own history.
         | 
         | In a digital publication, if you make a revision, the old
         | edition disappears by default; older versions are only
         | preserved if someone does so deliberately.
         | 
         | At the very least, the reader should be informed of the initial
         | publication date as well as the dates of any revisions, which I
         | believe is already standard practice in the print world. This
         | is essential context for the reader.
         | 
         | When a text revised in 2024 purports to be [entirely] from
         | 1948: bad. When a revised text mostly written in 1948 purports
         | to be [entirely] from 2024: also bad. To me, this is way more
         | important than the question of whether or not to make revisions
         | per se.
        
           | NeoTar wrote:
           | But an advantage of digital texts _could_ be that you buy a
           | text in 2024, and it shows you all revisions of the text from
           | 1948 to 2024...
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | I'm okay with someone taking an older work and editing it to
         | suit their own (necessarily personal) ideas of political
         | correctness, but only so long as it is made obvious somewhere
         | on the cover and title page that it is not the original work.
         | 
         | Anything else is fundamentally underhanded.
        
         | creer wrote:
         | How did we ever manage with paper print? The mind boggles. (We
         | managed with later printings and later revisions. Which is one
         | reason people sometimes seek an earlier edition or printing.)
        
       | bbarnett wrote:
       | Before ebooks, a bunch of friends and I used to memorize the full
       | contents of a book, each. We'd then destroy the books.
        
         | nervysnail wrote:
         | Were they radical political books? Erotica?
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Statistically the most likely book is _The Very Hungry
           | Caterpillar_ which most children memorize and then destroy.
        
       | thebeardisred wrote:
       | Especially apropos that the first link in the article is a 404.
        
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