[HN Gopher] Homebound: The Long-Term Rise in Time Spent at Home ...
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Homebound: The Long-Term Rise in Time Spent at Home Among U.S.
Adults
Author : o_nate
Score : 120 points
Date : 2024-08-19 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sociologicalscience.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (sociologicalscience.com)
| janalsncm wrote:
| Is this not explained by remote work? Some portion of adults who
| used to spend ~50 hours at an office and commuting are spending
| it at home.
| i_read_news wrote:
| That's a factor, but there are other reasons. Saving money,
| more online entertainment, the general shift of things done in
| person are now online, and the dark patterns that keep us tied
| there.
| zem wrote:
| also the increasing unavailability and/or inviability of
| third spaces where you can just hang out without having to
| spend a ton of money and deal with unpleasant environments
| bpodgursky wrote:
| I really don't think this is the reason. Third places are
| demand-driven, there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee
| buys you an afternoon. People aren't bothering.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| > _there are a lot of places where a $2 coffee buys you
| an afternoon._
|
| But there also isn't much reason to go there if nobody
| else does. A weird network-effect thing, right? Like, I
| didn't bother walking down to the local Chilean bakery
| that serves food because it's mostly empty most of the
| time, and there's only so much I can chat to the folks
| working there about as a stranger who lives down the
| street.
| mlinhares wrote:
| They're not, they're made, just look at all the open
| streets projects happening all over the world, and
| specially in Europe. You need people activelly building
| these third places for them to exist and for people to go
| there.
|
| The US is building most of its new homes in anti-social
| car controlled environments, where you can't walk
| anywhere, everything has to be done by driving. Kids
| can't just roam the neighborhoods anymore and when they
| do people start asking if they should call the cops.
|
| We are sick and it doesn't look like there is much
| thinking in how to fix it.
| chubot wrote:
| You used US dollars as your unit, but I don't think
| there's anywhere in the US where coffee cost $2 anymore
|
| Granted I live in more expensive areas, but still
| mjyoon wrote:
| I don't buy this - there are third spaces where you don't
| need to spend money and they've been here forever and are
| usually accessible. Churches, libraries, parks, certain
| community recreational facilities, gyms ,etc. It's not a
| lack of spaces, it's an issue of getting to those spaces.
| arccy wrote:
| - churches: not really for the non religious -
| libraries: not if you want to actually talk to people
| - parks: only if the weather cooperates - certain
| community recreational facilities: spend money? too
| activity oriented - gyms: same as above
| mjyoon wrote:
| The original poster said "spend a ton of money" (those
| places you spend money but not a "ton") and I've included
| churches as an example. This short list isn't
| comprehensive. Also, have you been to a library recently?
| There are now spaces where you can socialize and meet.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| We could agree that libraries don't have to be quiet
| anymore. It's not perfect but it's easy, and then a bunch
| of towns would suddenly have really nice public community
| centers.
| 3523582908 wrote:
| I'm spending the summer in Canada, where they invest a
| lot in third spaces, and the difference between Canada
| and the US in this regard is night and day.
|
| - Parks: A lot of them, every few blocks there's a large,
| well maintained park. Trash cans everywhere. - Many
| community centers, huge, filled with extremely
| inexpensive or free activities. Community centers all
| have gyms in them. - Beautiful, modern feeling libraries
|
| It's hard to describe the difference, but it is non
| trivial.
| vel0city wrote:
| I'm in the US. I've spent time visiting in Canada
| recently as well.
|
| Everything in your list is stuff I experienced in most of
| the parts of Canada I visited. Not all though, for
| instance it wasn't like that in the parts of Mississauga
| I visited. And everything in your list is stuff I
| experience regularly in the US, in the parts I've lived
| in.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Anecdotally, several managers of such spaces tell me they
| are dying from lack of use.
|
| I know my parents used them, but I never did. My friends
| used them a bit in university but stopped once they could
| afford something different. My local community centre's
| calendar has dried up, despite the space still being there.
| New neighborhoods sometimes don't even bother to build one
| now where I am, as there is no demand.
|
| Nobody demolished the churches or the libraries, but they
| have rapidly aging user bases. Rotary and other similar
| social clubs would love younger members, but younger people
| don't want them.
| ricksunny wrote:
| Which particular dark patterns would you be referring to?
| Sounds intriguing, and the article doesn't mention dark
| patterns.
| i_read_news wrote:
| That's my own take, not actual direct causation. But for
| example, I've experienced and witnessed time taken by
| endless scrolling design (I.e. TikTok) which could have
| been spent socially. Since I've take time away from such
| apps with patterns, I feel generally more content, but
| results may vary.
| VancouverMan wrote:
| A lot of formerly-enjoyable leisure activities outside the
| home have become a lot loss fun over the last few decades,
| too.
|
| I know a lot of people in the US, and especially Canada,
| who've stopped going to restaurants for example. They now
| cost too much, the food is often mediocre or even outright
| bad, the service is often terrible, parking can be an issue
| in some cities, and it's generally a miserable experience.
| Cooking at home, even if takes more effort, ends up being
| comparatively more enjoyable.
|
| That's also the case for movies, concerts, sporting events,
| exhibitions, and tourist venues. The tickets cost a lot
| relative to the enjoyment that's provided, and the pricing of
| food and drinks at such events can be astronomical. It has
| just become prohibitively expensive, especially for families,
| in addition to the other inconveniences (such as travel and
| parking) that can be associated with such events.
|
| Even something as simple as going to a beach or a lake has
| become an awful experience in Canada. A problem at Canadian
| beaches has been foreigners defecating in the sand, rather
| than using the proper washroom facilities. Even when that
| isn't happening, such places can be quite crowded and nowhere
| near as fun as they were in the past when they were quieter.
|
| I certainly can't blame people for not wanting to subject
| themselves to unpleasant experiences like those.
| beaglesss wrote:
| When my parents wanted to go out they did, and if I didn't
| want to I went down the creek, biked to the store, ran
| around the neighborhood with friends or whatever.
|
| Now that earns a call from CPS and the parents are arrested
| and the kid may end up in a foster home which are common
| sources of abuse. So the family just stays home if the kids
| won't/can't be taken.
| Terr_ wrote:
| I've seen the narrative before and I agree that parenting
| attitudes have changed, but are there any stats/studies
| to show that kind of severe outcome has really become
| more common over the decades? (As opposed to simply more-
| _feared_.)
| bilegeek wrote:
| Most of the stats come from media outlets reporting on
| singular cases, and most of the articles on the subject
| are op-eds rather than scientific studies. It does seem
| to be more common, but overall data is unfortunately very
| hard to come by.
|
| The plural of op-ed anecdotes is not objective data, but
| I can give you some jumping-off points:
|
| https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/
| mom...
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-
| ran...
|
| https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arre
| ste...
|
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-mom-accused-of-
| leaving-ki...
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/teen-bans-curfews-malls-
| them...
|
| https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?
| art...
|
| https://le.utah.gov/~2018/bills/static/sb0065.html
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/well/family/utah-
| passes-f...
|
| https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-coddling-of-the-
| american-p...
| frumper wrote:
| Anyone can call CPS as many times as they want and they
| will investigate, but no one is putting kids in foster
| care for biking to the store unless there are other
| things going on.
| bluGill wrote:
| The annoyance of being investigated is enough to make
| parents so no to biking.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Options have also expanded.
|
| The options are also not cooking at home vs going to a
| restaurant. There is now food delivery. It used to be that
| the only way to get ribs was to make them yourself or go to
| a restaurant and order them. But now a majority of my rib
| consumption is via Uber Eats.
|
| Movies used to be either in a theatre or a grainy home
| screen. The home screen is no longer grainy. Same with
| sports. You have to want the atmosphere to go to a game
| now.
|
| Beaches being crowded indicates use, so I wouldn't put it
| into the category of restaurant visits, movies, and sports,
| which are all declining categories overall.
| freeone3000 wrote:
| We have a lot more people but the same amount of beach --
| even if people spend more total time at the beach, on
| average every person goes less often.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| I am sorry, the rest of what you said resonates, but I must
| point out how funny it is that nobody goes to the beach
| anymore, it's too crowded. :-)
| charlie0 wrote:
| lol, this so true and it keeps from visiting certain
| places. You just know it's going to be either circling
| around for 20 minutes or more trying to find parking, or
| parking really far away and then having to carry
| everything to the beach which may not even be possible to
| do on a single trip.
| mikehodgson wrote:
| The rumours about some great number of foreigners pooping
| on the beach are generated to create resentment against a
| certain part of the population. They come from the same
| place as the "litter boxes in school washrooms" rumour from
| last summer. It isn't something that is actually happening.
| charlie0 wrote:
| It's not even just about the cost though. I understand
| there's inflation and I like to help out the mom/pop
| restaurants survive. I'm willing to pay extra as long at
| the food is good, but what I notice (at some places) the
| turnover is very high leading to inconsistent food quality.
| Sometimes the food is great, then I go back 2 weeks later
| and the food is awful. There are some places I visit every
| month and I don't recognize anyone from the last time I was
| there and it's like that frequently. Can't keep paying high
| prices and then rolling the dice on whether the food is
| going to be good.
|
| On the flip side, I've noticed that restaurants with great
| quality almost invariably have low turnover and those are
| the one I keep coming back to.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Why go out if home is more comfortable?
| nox101 wrote:
| For me it's explained by
|
| (1) less shopping because I order online
|
| (2) more entertainment/distraction from online stuff (movies,
| youtube, tech news, anime, streamers, ....)
|
| (3) less office friends IMO partly because WFH. It's not that
| I'm spending time at home because I working, it's that I'm not
| going out with co-workers after work because we aren't starting
| the evening together like we used to.
|
| (3b) Same as above, I'm already at home because WFH so it's an
| effort to "go out". Where as when it was WFO I'd already be
| "out" and then stay out somewhere before coming home.
|
| Honestly I hate WFH. I know it's not coming back but "my" life
| is definitely worse because of WFH. I get that that's not true
| for many others.
| samschooler wrote:
| Looking at the paper, page 564 [0] has the component graph. Looks
| like the key contributors are (in order of contribution):
|
| - Work-Related Activities (~35 minutes more at home)
|
| - Sleeping - Assumed at Home (~25 minutes more at home)
|
| - Leisure - Not On Computer (~22 minutes more at home)
|
| What I find interesting, is the key differences in total time
| spent. There seems to be generally more time spent sleeping
| actually (~25 more minutes), and that time comes from a decrease
| in socializing (-~15 minutes), and transportation (commuting,
| -~20 minutes).
|
| Overall, less commuting and more sleep seems good, but a decrease
| in socialization is not great, a full 1 3/4 hours a week
| decrease.
|
| [0]:
| https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol_11/august/SocSc...
| dawnerd wrote:
| How is fewer hours of socializing bad? Maybe if you're the kind
| of person that things you have to always be in a social setting
| but there's lots of us that just want alone time. If I could
| get even an hour less a day around anyone else that would be
| massive for my mental health.
| DiggyJohnson wrote:
| Sure that's sometimes the case. But on the whole I would bet
| that the average American is more physically and emotionally
| isolated from their peers outside their immediate family or
| housemates than any other society in history.
|
| The analogy that came to mind was to image advising
| firefighters to avoid drowning the cat when they're trying to
| put out a house fire.
| acabajoe wrote:
| Americans at least are statistically lonelier now than they
| were before and it has a measurable negative effect on
| health.
|
| https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-americans-are-
| lonelier...
| richardw wrote:
| I'm spending too much time at home. Getting a lot done but
| serendipitous meetings and network building is definitely
| impacted. Time with my daughter is way up, before and after
| school.
| bunderbunder wrote:
| Further down they mention that a dominant factor here seems to
| be the shifting of many activities, including spending time
| with family and friends, to a home setting.
|
| This certainly reflects my experience. Nowadays watching a
| movie doesn't mean going to a movie theater; it means watching
| a movie at a friend's house. Similar for gaming &c.
|
| Lately I've seen a lot of lamenting the lack of third spaces,
| but I haven't personally felt _too_ sad about this? When I was
| younger my friends and I would regularly meet for coffee and
| pie at a diner that was open late, or shoot darts at a cozy
| neighborhood bar. Nowadays those kinds of places seem to be all
| but gone. They 've been replaced by Dining and Entertainment
| Concepts(tm) that cost too much to frequent with any
| regularity, and crank the music way too loud to permit real
| socialization. So we just get together to play Mario Kart
| instead.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Even if the cost were lower, home options have improved to
| make being at a location less worth it.
|
| The gap between 1980s movie viewing and a theatre and 2024
| movie viewing and a theatre has narrowed tremendously. The
| selection at home is far superior to the movie theatre now.
| Food delivery options have expanded well beyond Chinese and
| pizza. Sports viewing captures a better view than most seats.
| charlie0 wrote:
| Not to mention most people are going to shell out $$$ for a
| nice large TV. At that point, might as well spend a few
| extra $$ and buy a surround sound.
|
| Maybe it's just me, but a lot of theaters set their volumes
| to LOUD. I've found it better to just watch movies at home
| (save for that rare movie you HAVE to watch in theaters,
| like Mad Max) and spend the remaining $ on building out my
| HT.
| bunderbunder wrote:
| I was recently reflecting on how I love seeing live
| theater productions, but hate going to movie theaters to
| see movies. In principle it seems like they should be
| relatively comparable?
|
| LOUD was definitely one of the first things I thought of.
| I don't feel like I need to bring ear plugs to make
| watching a play comfortable.
|
| Intermissions are another. It's nice to have an
| opportunity to stand up and stretch my legs, maybe take a
| bathroom break, chat with my partner about the story so
| far, all without missing anything or bothering other
| people.
|
| I think, though, that concessions are the other big one.
| Stage theaters don't have sticky floors, they don't reek
| of popcorn, you don't have the person behind you chewing
| with their mouth open so loudly you can somehow hear it
| above the aforementioned exceptionally loud volume, etc.
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| Yeah, but you've already got your friend circle, right?
|
| With the socioeconomic-geographic mobility situation - people
| moving to get good jobs, better lifestyles, and increased
| quality of life may not. And there are of course regressive
| movers too, and probably people pursuing greener grass. They
| aren't going to have friends locally, workplace socializing
| is... Suboptimal. But in a society that increasingly
| verbalizes distaste for cold approach, and lacks -- as you
| said a quiet socializing atmosphere (or even competition in
| such a sphere) there's little left. At least that's my
| experience.
| bunderbunder wrote:
| As someone who moved a lot when they were younger, I'm not
| convinced that the problem there is access to spaces. It's
| that the Internet killed it. It reduced the quality of
| options through over-centralization. And even for the
| things the Internet didn't destroy, people no longer know
| how to find things without the help of Google, which then
| became useless for finding anything that isn't SEO-
| optimized content farm dreck.
|
| A couple concrete examples: In 2005-ish, it was relatively
| easy to find monthly vegan potlucks in decently-sized
| towns. Larger ones might have many of them, with sort of a
| neighborhood focus. But after Meetup came out you saw a lot
| of consolidation where everyone would just sort of
| gravitate toward one of them, and the rest would die off.
| Chicago consolidated on one group that was organized by
| some friends of mine, and eventually got so big that it
| sort of collapsed under its own weight.
|
| Chicago also used to have a bunch of smaller social groups
| for people learning various languages. That whole space
| eventually got absorbed by the Chicago Language Cafe, which
| then became so big that the venue needed to change from a
| reasonably-sized neighborhood pub to a large taproom in a
| converted industrial space. It was big, noisy, kind of
| inaccessible, and generally just a terrible place to get to
| know people - again due to Internet-fueled centralization.
|
| By contrast, the knitting community tends to have groups
| organized by local yarn stores instead of through a massive
| centralized site like Facebook or Meetup. There are two
| within walking distance of my house. One of them played an
| essential role in rebuilding my social life when I moved to
| this neighborhood a few years back. The other I haven't
| really been to, per se, but they meet outside when the
| weather's nice and I'll stop and say hi if I happen to be
| passing by.
|
| There are also numerous book clubs that meet at local book
| stores and libraries. There are probably at least ten
| within walking distance of my house, meeting at 3 or 4
| different venues.
|
| (edit: Unstated major premise here is that the diners and
| bars I was talking about in the previous post aren't
| actually good places to meet people in the first place,
| anyway. I view them more as places to spend time with
| friends you already have.)
| beaglesss wrote:
| I saw a lot of friendships fracture over COVID. One side was
| considered grandma murderers and the other side authoritarian
| who wanted to violently smash down people's non-essential jobs
| with the state,etc.
|
| Was really hard to look at some people ever the same way again.
| hintymad wrote:
| Maybe a trajectory question: will the US have a lot of people
| like Japan's Hikikomori?
| cpitman wrote:
| I heard the term NEET (not in employment education or training)
| used for the first time on western media last week. I usually
| associate the term with Japan and the Hikikomori issues.
| edu wrote:
| In Spain and other LATAM countries we have the concept of
| "ni-ni" (ni estudia, ni trabaja = neither studies nor works).
| Although I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't spend all their
| time at home.
| creata wrote:
| Fun(-ish) fact: Although it's strongly associated with and
| was popularized by Japan, the term "NEET" came from Britain.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| I think the main thing preventing this from happening a lot in
| NA is how difficult it would be to maintain without family
| paying for everything
|
| But there's absolutely people with big trust funds or
| inheritances living this way. I knew a bunch of people who
| basically lived like this during COVID because of relief
| payments and they only very reluctantly found jobs again after
| it became clear that COVID payments were done and UBI was not
| on the near horizon.
|
| There's a similar category of people in the USA and Canada as
| well that I don't have a term for. They're just as checked out
| really, bouncing between part time minimum wage jobs. They tend
| to live with like 5 roommates all doing the same thing they
| are. They work as few hours as possible to pay for rent and
| food. Any money left over is going to weed/booze/both and
| videogames
|
| I think it's the same person who would be a Hikikomori, just
| adapted to NA economic realities
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| > They're just as checked out really, bouncing between part
| time minimum wage jobs. They tend to live with like 5
| roommates all doing the same thing they are. They work as few
| hours as possible to pay for rent and food. Any money left
| over is going to weed/booze/both and videogames
|
| The Japanese term would be "freeter". However, many artists,
| poets, and musicians, have lived similarly in decades past.
| Such a lifestyle wasn't and isn't limited to hikikomori or
| individuals approximately classified as one.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > artists, poets, and musicians, have lived similarly in
| decades past
|
| I don't think artists/poets/musicians/what have you were
| sitting around playing videogames
|
| I think it's an important distinction that this isn't a
| sort of "we're living this way pursuing a dream" lifestyle
| that I'm trying to describe
|
| It's more "we're living this way because we have no dreams"
|
| I think it's different
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| In Farming and Hunter days, we spent all the time at home.
| ok_dad wrote:
| I've come to appreciate my home. I spend thousands of dollars a
| month on it, why wouldn't I be there enjoying and maintaining
| it most of my time?
|
| I think the modern idea that you have to be out and about
| constantly is linked to our consumer culture and growth
| oriented economy. They want us to be out spending money we
| don't have.
| 331c8c71 wrote:
| For me the first association with "out" is "outdoors".
| ok_dad wrote:
| My house is quite nice, I live right next to a big park
| that's basically a cool forest with tons of short trails
| that take only a few minutes to traverse. I can go for a
| walk for 15 minutes through there from 9-5 every day other
| than Christmas!
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Agreed. Every time we get a thread like this, the majority
| opinion seems to be to call it a bad thing and to blame
| technology.
|
| But, why shouldn't we be enjoying the place that is supposed
| to be our own? I can get a lot more work done when allowed to
| just be comfy working in my room without many disturbances. I
| can work on my hobbies and socialize with people who have the
| same hobbies, without any of us having to be able to come
| over.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| I live alone, so I get bored of being alone. When my
| girlfriend is over, I still want to meet other people. Before
| my divorce, I wanted to meet other people and not just be
| around my spouse all day.
| advisedwang wrote:
| "hunting" implies being out of the home.
|
| Also many historical contexts had plenty of time out drinking
| (even if that's just in the house of someone that brews), going
| to religious events, off conducting raids or wars etc.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| The home was moving following the hunt (at least for my
| ancestors along the fjords).
| steve1977 wrote:
| If I understand correctly, the article looks at data from 2003 to
| 2022. I'm not sure if I would call that long-term. What about
| 1922 to 2022 for example? Or even longer.
|
| From what I understand from my parents and grandparents (I'm Gen
| X), they did quite a lot of stuff at home (i.e. meet friends,
| make music etc.)
|
| Going out was the exception, not the norm.
| advisedwang wrote:
| Depends on what "going out" you mean. Restaurants - sure. But
| it seems plausible "a drink with colleagues after work" or
| "taking the kids to the library" or "going to a church
| activity" have all declined since the 1920s
| steve1977 wrote:
| My one grandfather was a carpenter with a workshop in his
| basement for example. I'm pretty sure "a drink with
| colleagues after work" was very rarely a thing for him.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| > Preliminary analysis indicates that time at home is associated
| with lower levels of happiness and less meaning
|
| I wonder if this is something that needs a closer look. I enjoy
| spending time at home. I'd rather be at home than pretty much
| anywhere else. Even before the pandemic I felt this way. The
| pandemic itself was like a vacation.
| eitally wrote:
| I think it depends a lot on both the individual and how the
| time is spent at home. For folks who have engaging hobbies and
| other activities that lend themselves to home-based practice,
| it's entirely different than those for whom time at home is
| basically being shut-in and reclusive with little mental &
| emotional stimulation.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| And also depends on if you have people over and a lot of
| human interaction in your home.
|
| Hosting a BBQ dinner party with family and friends it's
| obviously different than sitting alone browsing Netflix or
| reddit
| jaredcwhite wrote:
| > time at home is basically being shut-in and reclusive with
| little mental & emotional stimulation
|
| Me! That's me! I can barely even get to a mere 24 hours at
| home without feeling stir-crazy, and more than that you might
| as well dump ants all over my skin.
|
| But I'm very aware of other people (including family members
| I know) who are perfectly fine with days spent going
| nowhere...perhaps rarely even leaving their room. It makes no
| sense to me, but clearly this issue is very personality-
| dependent.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| > _engaging hobbies_
|
| It's an important point. To use a nutrition metaphor, there
| are many new easily-available empty calories at home these
| days, that weren't previously available. The web. Online
| gaming. Social media. Streaming.
|
| Yet venturing outside into a social environment delivers a
| higher minimum level of nutritional value. You see other
| breathing humans, experience empathy and nature, and move
| your body.
|
| And critically... exercise being comfortable with being
| uncomfortable. (Aka, life)
|
| One of the quickest paths to crazy these days is becoming too
| comfortable in a stable, static, self-reinforcing life. You
| don't get any feedback that you're drifting pretty far off
| the median. (I mean, has anyone actually seen the Earth's
| curvature...?)
|
| Reality has a well-known bias towards reinforcing common
| sense and reminding you when you're wrong.
| bulatb wrote:
| _> You see other breathing humans_
|
| ...who will cheerfully explain to you that you 're unhappy,
| your hobbies are empty, your choices as wrong, and how much
| happier you'd be if you'd just value what they value and
| like what they like and stop being you and start being
| them.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XvfImv9NseY&t=12s
|
| Cash in your ticket or get some joy out of the game.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Anecdotally, being social when I would rather not doesn't make
| me as miserable as those who are alone, when they would rather
| not be.
|
| So I can see our relative smaller boost in happiness being
| outweighed by the utter misery of others.
| steve1977 wrote:
| That's interesting. I'm very introverted I think. Being
| social when I would rather not (which is most of the time)
| makes me very miserable. To the point of being depressed.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Do you end up crying day after day, using drugs, dropping
| out of school, etc though? As loneliness does that to
| people.
|
| It is not that it is mildly painful for introverts to
| socialize when they do not want to, but rather that
| loneliness can be extremely painful.
| FloorEgg wrote:
| In the most extreme acute situations I have broken down
| to tears purely from over-stimulation from socializing.
| Specifically when attending conferences for work. (I am
| an introvert). After a day of intense socializing I will
| go back to a hotel room and cry, while other people go to
| after parties.
|
| As far as depression, drugs, etc. I haven't been under
| this pressure chronically so I can't speak from personal
| experience.
|
| That said, I suspect that for introverts in even the most
| extreme chronic social pressures it would be more
| feasible for them to escape to some quiet place to
| recharge, than it would be for an extrovert who has no
| social connection living in isolation to find sufficient
| connection to recharge. In theory, it's far more
| practical to manifest solitude than it is to manifest a
| party.
| steve1977 wrote:
| Crying sometimes yes, also having sleep problems before
| social gatherings for example.
|
| Drugs no, although I did tend to numb myself during
| social interactions with alcohol (not drinking any
| alcohol anymore, but also have reduced social
| interactions).
|
| I'm not saying loneliness cannot be terrible, don't get
| me wrong. I guess involuntary anything can be terrible.
| creata wrote:
| > Do you end up crying day after day, using drugs,
| dropping out of school, etc though?
|
| Two out of three, yes, as a direct result of a desire not
| to interact with others.
|
| While loneliness can be extremely painful, so too can
| anxiety.
| steve1977 wrote:
| Same here. Being at home is basically my default mode. Leaving
| home needs a good reason.
| allenu wrote:
| For me, staying at home during the pandemic did feel like a
| vacation, but it doesn't feel like that anymore. I've reasoned
| that the difference between spending lots of time at home now
| vs. the pandemic is that during the pandemic the standards for
| socializing and doing anything were so low, it was like a
| weight off. With things being closed and social distancing, it
| was not expected of you to really do anything. You could excuse
| poor social habits.
|
| Now that things are back to normal, staying at home too much
| and not socializing as much as pre-pandemic, feels like wasted
| potential, and I can't chalk it up to everything being shut
| down and people not being able to get together.
| ryandrake wrote:
| The pandemic finally provided an acceptable excuse for not
| wanting to go out and do stuff. I could just stay home 24/7
| and nobody would question it--it was glorious. Prior to
| COVID, I'd cave in and agree to go out, wallflower there for
| some time to be polite, and leave as soon as I knew it
| wouldn't offend people.
|
| Now, post-pandemic, I simply stopped caring about what other
| people "question." That's their problem. Thanks to WFH, I can
| (and do) stay at home for weeks. I've got everything I need
| here at home and finally feel no external pressure to go out
| and do social.
|
| It's also great for costs: I put 3,000 miles on my car in the
| last 12 months, compared to averaging 10,000 per year prior
| to the pandemic.
| interiorchurch wrote:
| HN is full of people with a) probably decently good homes and
| b) a high level of self-motivation on work and hobbies. I
| suspect sentiment here doesn't generalize well to the
| population at large.
| fullshark wrote:
| My vision of the stereotypical HNer is not A at all, but a
| single person somewhat just out of school, renting a shoebox
| in a HCOL area.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I don't think the quality of the home factors in, but I think
| you make an excellent point about HN'ers being highly self-
| motivated in terms of personal projects.
|
| They're less likely to be spending their time at home just
| watching endless TV or Instagram scrolling.
|
| So I think you're right, it doesn't generalize to the larger
| population at all.
| wisty wrote:
| Haha, just like vitamin D. Everything is associated with going
| outside, but where is the causality? Almost any negative event,
| from financial to relational setbacks to a global pandemic make
| people spend more time indoors and will also have other
| negative effects, but you can't always cure it with vitamin D.
| t-writescode wrote:
| We continue to lose our third spaces and a cohesive weekly
| ritual.
|
| Even places that flourished because they were third spaces, like
| Starbucks, are dropping their seating to lower numbers to "get
| rid of the riff raff" or whatever.
|
| The US is hilariously car-centric and when you're not driving to
| go to work, there's less of an urge to drive at any time; and,
| without walkability too, there's even more loss in socializing.
|
| It's all a net loss.
| chubot wrote:
| Didn't WFH mean that many people lost their second place?
|
| I remember reading about the third place many years ago, but
| that idea requires a second place!
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| Home. Work. And your third place.
| katzinsky wrote:
| Good riddance. As someone who still had third and even fourth
| places now I can focus on those.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| If I was not going to look for a remote job before, I'm
| definitely going to look for one now.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| It would help if being outside your house didn't mean spending a
| bunch of money...but in so many towns, that's all there is to
| find: Stores and restaurants, or a small yucky space on a bench
| between unsavory individuals with a drug habit. I've seen the EU
| pubs, yes beer, but also coffee, some money is spent, but it's
| also open to prolonged conversations with neighbors without looks
| at you to leave right away.
| cm2012 wrote:
| It's hard for me to emphasize with loneliness, as I've honestly
| never felt lonely a day in my life. It initially surprised me
| that people were bothered by working from home due to loneliness.
| charlie0 wrote:
| Does this resonate with you "I feel more alone around others
| than being by myself"?
|
| Loneliness != being alone
| cm2012 wrote:
| Not really, I don't experience a feeling I would call
| loneliness in any situation.
| anon291 wrote:
| It's because the standard way we develop neighborhoods does not
| lend itself to people being able to _leave their homes_. My
| parents just bought a condo in a newer development in a rapidly
| growing metro, and while they can walk around their complex,
| there 's no sidewalks to anywhere else, and even if there were,
| the city zoning laws means there's no corner cafe, bakery, or
| small-scale store like there really ought to be. It's so stupid
| and such an easy thing to fix: just require that each adjacent
| complex have a right of way and sidewalks and zone for cottage
| businesses every few blocks. Makes everything more pleasant, and
| people have something to do when they leave their house without
| having to get into the car.
|
| EDIT: This [1] is the kind of neighborhood i'm talking about.
| Growing rapidly, cheap housing -- great, but they're setting
| themselves up for real heartbreak because the complexes don't
| connect. To walk to the park that's not even a mile away requires
| walking on a huge, busy road. All they need to have to make it
| not feel dangerous is a dirt path and a required gate between
| complexes. That's it. [2]
|
| I'm honestly not sure why we think this kind of development is
| even normal. Roads really ought to connect. It also makes the
| traffic so much worse. I live two miles from downtown Portland
| and my street outside my house gets significantly less traffic
| than my parents.
|
| I fully expect to move my parents somewhere near us as they age.
| It's just not possible for them to leave the house when they get
| older without having to drive, whereas older people in my grid-
| based, sidewalk neighborhood can walk for miles and achieve their
| entire life.
|
| [1]
| https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clark+County+Fairgrounds/@...
|
| [2] Meanwhile, our park is technically farther away (about a
| mile) and we walk there almost everyday and know all the
| neighbors down the street. We just went to a party at one of the
| neighbor's homes and the only relation we have is that we wave at
| each other as their kids play in the yard and mine ride their
| bikes to the park. I want to leave the house half the time
| because I have friends outside. That's all you need.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| How long are people really supposed to hang out at a corner
| cafe, bakery, or store? Don't these businesses want turnover?
| Libraries, rec centers, churches, parks, dance halls, and bars
| are where people are expected to spend time. Also, although I
| see little direct of screen time in the full report, large TVs,
| huge customizable option set, everything streaming on-demand,
| online shopping, immersive games, addictive internet behavior,
| etc., it does suggest these are at play, and could account for
| the hour and forty minutes lost.
| anon291 wrote:
| What about hanging out in your front yard? Corner bakeries,
| cafes, etc give you a place to go with your friend, not
| necesarily a place to lounge (although some are okay with
| that too). Lots of people don't care and like the crowd
| because it makes it seem popular. Very common with little
| coffee shops. For our local shop, I know the owner and the
| family, and while I wouldn't presume to go in there and not
| order anything, I also doubt they'd really care if I didn't
| continuously order.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| > _How long are people really supposed to hang out at a
| corner cafe, bakery, or store? Don 't these businesses want
| turnover?_
|
| Before modern Starbucks popularized a hostile environment, it
| was common to work for half a day in a coffee shop.
|
| They tended to be a lot bigger, have more and more
| comfortable furniture, and were fine if you quietly worked
| away and bought a coffee / snack every now and then.
|
| But Starbucks ~05 to now is basically a microcosm of the ways
| America went awry.
| automatic6131 wrote:
| > it was common to work for half a day in a coffee shop.
|
| It was always unfair to expect a coffee shop to operate an
| office for the price of the profit margin on 3 coffees, a
| sandwich and a muffin.
| Retric wrote:
| Most coffee shops and restaurant were empty 3/4th of the
| day before people brought laptops you'd see people
| playing chess or reading books in these spaces. Laptops
| really mess with this business model because they don't
| want to leave as they get busy.
| autoexec wrote:
| On the plus side, people who don't leave order multiple
| drinks and the overpriced food, people working tend to
| like keeping the caffeine buzz going, and for every
| customer who settles in with a laptop or a book there
| will be many more who take their coffee out or just use
| the drive thru and never step inside. The mix of customer
| types is what makes it possible to keep a coffee shop
| open.
| fuzztester wrote:
| >But Starbucks ~05 to now is basically a microcosm of _the
| ways America went awry_.
|
| sad.
|
| someone should write a well researched book with that
| title: the ways America went awry.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| A beloved product, IPO'd or purchased by professional PE,
| invariably becomes worse as the new owners realize love
| can be exchanged for a worse experience and more
| profitable enterprise.
|
| If you want to build something and have it stay good,
| never expose it to the harsh light of economic
| min/maxing.
| chomp wrote:
| Tragedy of the commons. A coffee shop near me started
| sweeping people out after an hour because almost every
| table and chair was taken by individual people on laptops
| for hours at a time. It's unfair to people like me who want
| a quick cup with someone.
| autoexec wrote:
| Does that means that kicking people out after an hour is
| unfair to people who want to have a long cup with
| someone? I don't really see it as a question of fairness.
|
| Not every business has to cater to everyone's preference.
| I suspect that they started shooing people because they
| found (or at least suspected) that kicking out your
| customers made them more money. The laptop people will
| just find somewhere else to get their coffee.
|
| The best coffee shops I been to have multiple spaces set
| aside for people with different needs, including busy
| main areas and out of the way quiet areas, a mix of small
| and long tables plus chairs and couches, books/board
| games/pool tables available, conference/gaming rooms,
| etc.
|
| I've seen coffee shops like that get so popular that they
| required a cover charge on Friday nights and weekends.
| You're not likely to find those kinds of spaces on every
| other street corner like a Starbucks but the versatility
| is really nice.
| j7ake wrote:
| Set WiFi to expire after 60 minutes, maybe that helps?
| pgwhalen wrote:
| Weird, it seems to me the exact opposite is true. More and
| more people are spending longer periods in coffee shops and
| treating them as offices.
| somedude895 wrote:
| The article has nothing to do with that. It's looking at the
| development over the past 19 years. This "car centric cities"
| criticism is beginning to get really old here on HN.
| anon291 wrote:
| Why is it getting old? I go out way more today living in a
| walkable area than I or my parents did growing up in the
| suburbs. It's just reality, and the data show that.
|
| There's also substantial differences in suburbs, and I don't
| think it has to do with 'car centric cities'.
|
| The suburb I grew up in was car centric but was still much
| better than the kids of developments i see today. Things are
| not black and white and exist on a spectrum. Being skeptical
| of modern subdivision-based development does not mean
| thinking everywhere needs to be Manhattan. It just means that
| we should think about adding a cafe, a park, a corner store,
| a library, etc, and adding things to make it easier when you
| don't have a car.
|
| I am not, and have never been anti-car. If you look through
| my post history, you'll even see me criticize attempts by
| various states to limit the sale of internal combustion
| engine cars. I own a car and drive it when I need to. I also
| walk and bike and scooter and wahtever
| dingnuts wrote:
| it's annoying because in many suburbs the problem isn't
| cars, it's just zoning! all of the problems described in
| the grandparent, like the lack of a dirt path between
| complexes, no small stores in the area -- these are ZONING
| problems, not car problems!
|
| we can keep our detached homes and cars and cozy suburbs
| and still have a convenience store in walking distance, I'm
| sure of it, if local zoning laws allow it
|
| but this subreddit, er I mean website, might as well be
| r/fuckcars whenever the topic arises
| mertd wrote:
| You are correct. Technically it is a zoning problem. But
| such zoning only became feasible after cars went
| mainstream. There are many self perpetuating elements of
| exclusionary zoning and car dependency.
| skepticATX wrote:
| Zoning and car-centric design are intimately connected,
| though. A walkable suburb just can't support the number
| of cars that a typical western suburb supports today.
|
| If you loosen zoning, what you're going to end up with is
| denser development and less room for cars.
|
| Streetcar suburbs are an example of this. You have more
| room than living in the core of the city, but you don't
| have enough room for 3 F150s for the family.
| dkga wrote:
| This. Zoning and car-centric life are endogenous. I would
| even add NIMBYism w.r.t. adding public transportation
| stops or bicycle lanes.
| bluGill wrote:
| The streetcar suburbs in my area have larger lots than
| the new suburbs they are building on the edge of town.
| Back in those days e*erpone had a garden and so lots were
| bigger.
|
| of coures how the lot is built is different but it isn't
| size.
| janalsncm wrote:
| I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in
| staying home are also true in more walkable areas. Of course
| the ability to go out is a factor, but suburban sprawl is not a
| new trend in the US either.
| anon291 wrote:
| I think there's a been a substantial change in the kinds of
| suburban developments. I grew up in suburbia but it was still
| significantly more walkable than the sorts of developments I
| see today, especially in areas where housing is cheap and
| they're building a lot.
|
| My suburb growing up was grid based and you could bike to the
| grocery store. The part of Portland I live in is technically
| a suburb (started out that way, but eventually merged into
| the core). However, based off of historical records, the
| basic pattern of businesses has remained the same, so even
| when it was fully suburban, you could always walk to the park
| , coffee shop, bakery (some have even been here the full 100
| years or so the neighborhood's been around).
|
| Whereas, due to zoning and HOAs, I just can't see where those
| would possibly develop in the example I gave above. It's
| illegal.
|
| I'm not an expert by any means, but I feel the pattern
| changed sometime in the 90s and aughts.
| alamortsubite wrote:
| Yes, the automobile enabled this change, though I think it
| happened earlier than you imagine (more like the 50s and
| 60s). Those older style suburbs are known as "streetcar
| suburbs" [1].
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb
| TuringNYC wrote:
| >> I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in
| staying home are also true in more walkable areas.
|
| I think it depends on zoning and mandates. I used to live in
| Brooklyn on 4th Ave and it is super-walkable. However,
| numerous 12story buildings featured a parking garage as their
| ground-level facade, rather than cafes, offices, etc. This
| leads to an empty industrial feeling that makes people run
| away from such spaces.
|
| Here is are 3 examples:
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6718516,-73.9875659,3a,75y,2.
| ..
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6731304,-73.9863663,3a,75y,9.
| ..
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6726699,-73.9865002,3a,75y,1.
| ..
|
| To be fair, many did have clinics or dentist offices also,
| but -- it would be nice to have places where people _want_ to
| go -- gyms, cafes, grocery stores, restaurants, etc.
|
| In "The Death and Life of Great American Cities", Jacobs
| pushes for a variety -- and I can now truly appreciate that
| having lived in the above areas. The above areas may be
| _walkable_ but dont attract people to walk there. They also
| become ghostly at night and people feel unsafe walking there.
| I could imagine the entire atmosphere changing with
| restaurants and cafes.
| Varriount wrote:
| This matches a number of the new apartment complexes in my area
| - no walking trails, amenities, or anything else accessible
| from the complex itself. Often you can't actually go to
| _anywhere_ from the complex, as the roads from it don't even
| have sidewalks.
| anon291 wrote:
| Yeah, so in my view, these sorts of developments became
| common in the 90s and 00s. The kids who grew up in them are
| going to have trouble socializing and not being lonely
| because to them, sitting at home all day is normal. They
| couldn't do anything else as kids. They had to remain inside.
| Unless mom or dad could drive them some place, they had no
| where to go.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Another thing I've noticed is that older apartment complexes
| have _more_ amenities than newer ones, albeit often unused /
| in disrepair.
|
| New apartment complex? Maybe a pool. Co-located commercial
| gym if you're fancy.
|
| Old apartment complex? Pool. Tennis and basketball courts.
| Rentable shared social pavilion. Parks and green space.
| mysterydip wrote:
| "but that's space we could be putting more apartments! who
| cares if they need a car to get anywhere, we rent more
| parking spaces that way." - apartment manager somewhere,
| probably
| renewiltord wrote:
| Flip the script a little if you really want to understand
| this. Play the role of a developer and go do some
| rudimentary math on what you can afford to build at what
| risk. Use ChatGPT to help you with the parts you don't
| understand.
|
| There's no moustache twirling. Location is the number one
| thing people want. If amenities made the cut and could be
| done, they'd be done. But after parking minimums,
| setbacks, and massing requirements you lose a lot of sq.
| ft., every bit of which you need to make the money work.
|
| Try it with a well-known locality since the laws for
| those are public enough to be scraped.
| vel0city wrote:
| Its the opposite from the old/new developments I see.
|
| Old apartment complex: A pool, a small gym, maybe some
| clubhouse one can rent. Maybe a dilapidated basketball
| court that last saw fresh paint in the 90s.
|
| New apartment complex: A pool, a large gym, multiple
| clubhouse/lounge spaces, golf simulators, dog wash
| stations, dog parks/runs, multiple grilling/picnic areas,
| maybe even racquet ball courts, etc.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| What city has racquet ball courts in new-build apartment
| complexes? I've only ever seen them in ~1980s builds.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| I think people are adopting a bunker mentality with a constant
| advertising and propaganda assault that the modern Brain is
| subjected to.
|
| Especially on the right, but also on the left, every fringe
| issue is framed as a grave threat to your existence. News
| media's long stoked the paranoia of whites as they enter a
| majority minority country of catastrophic fear of minorities.
|
| And the mobile phone was probably the tipping point of a
| typical human being's tolerance for digital intrusion and
| ubiquitous advertising.
|
| I honestly think the mental stability of the entire nation has
| started to go downhill since the introduction of social
| networking enhanced by mobiles. The statistics of adolescence
| and depression certainly back that up, and I think we'd be
| fools to think that adults are immune to it as well.
|
| In modern convenience-based shopping and services, coming from
| silicon valleys era of shut-in programmers producing apps that
| enable their shut-in lifestyle are the final aspect
|
| You know it really is amazing how Japan seems to be about 10
| years ahead of the US in social responses to technology. The
| socially withdrawn otaku is the archetype of the end digital
| capitalism's ideal consumer.
| hintymad wrote:
| > the city zoning laws means there's no corner cafe, bakery, or
| small-scale store like there really ought to be
|
| So basically we actively reject the lifestyle of European
| towns, or the life style of early 20th century of the US. I
| wonder why that is good for the city in any way.
| loa_in_ wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning_in_the_United_States
| dkga wrote:
| Indeed, this is a saddening development. Especially as people
| get older and _need_ to interact with people they know socially
| on a frequent basis.
|
| This reminds me of one of the best cities I've ever been on,
| Brasilia. Literally every block is build to be walkable as a
| small condo and have its own cottage businesses like the so-
| called "padarias" (Brazilian bakeries), grocers, etc. And all
| condos/blocks have some amenities like multi-sports court. A
| unique feature in Brazil (perhaps in all of Latin America) is
| that all buildings are walkable in the ground floor, meaning
| that it's all open spaces and you can actually see kids playing
| in their building or region. Very lovely.
| Yeul wrote:
| That's what happens when thanks to Henry Ford every middle
| class American could afford a car by 1940. It took Europeans
| another 30 years.
|
| (My brother lives in a 1926 apartment that is 10 minute walk
| from the beach. Although that privilege does come with a 460k
| price tag. Nobody had a car back then unless they were
| millionaires so the entire area was built with trams, bicycles
| and walking in mind).
| chrisco255 wrote:
| The Model T was released in 1908 and car culture had already
| overtaken the horse and buggy by 1926. Most households had at
| least one car by then.
| carabiner wrote:
| Yet the proportion of people living in urban areas has grown to
| a massive degree:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_Sta...
| kalupa wrote:
| Please tell all the wahoos harping on about the conspiracy of
| "15 minute cities"
| janalsncm wrote:
| Many people mention the loss of third places as a contributing
| factor in these threads. Lower church attendance, the death of
| shopping malls, difficulties in accessing nice parks, etc. I am
| sympathetic to this idea. However, it is a very US-centric point
| of view as well. Many countries don't have car-centric suburban
| sprawl that North America has. So I'm wondering if places seen as
| more walkable have the same trends of time spent at home, and if
| those trends are as strongly tied to quality of life problems.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Obligatory mention for the well-titled _Bowling Alone: The
| Collapse and Revival of American Community_ [0] (2000)
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/
| karaterobot wrote:
| Note that the article is about the U.S.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| The thing is the study covers 2003 to today. People talking
| about dramatic changes in suburban life but neighborhoods
| haven't changed much at all since 2003.
|
| What has changed is home entertainment has gotten more diverse.
| People stream movies more often than they go to the theater.
| People download the latest video games instead of going to game
| store. People stream instead of going to Blockbuster video.
| There is also a greater variety of food delivery options (Uber
| Eats, etc). You can have groceries delivered. People buy more
| of their purchases online like on Amazon and have it
| overnighted to their door.
|
| All these conveniences remove reasons to be out and about. In
| 2003 you still had to leave the house for most of these things.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| I am European, lived in a few cities across a few countries. I
| have to say that it's very convenient to blame car-centric
| design for everything bad, but in reality, there is some deeper
| decay spreading through all developed societies. In my opinion
| there are two reasons for this. First, we form friendships of
| need: there are people to whom we're nice because we know we'll
| need their help one day. For a farmer it's better not to have
| an argument with the only guy in the village who owns a combine
| harvester, and especially not during the harvesting season. But
| nowadays literally the easiest way to live is to be a shut-in
| and just eat microwave food. We don't _need_ friendships
| anymore, as in "having friends doesn't raise material standard
| of life". Second, we form friendships of pleasure: we talk to
| people that are essentially useless, but spending time with
| them just feels good for one reason or another. Recently we
| turned up individualism to the maximum which means that it's
| pretty much impossible to meet a person who has similar
| lifestyle, hobbies, and experiences, therefore could be a
| pleasant conversation partner. As a result, we just don't talk
| one to another because we don't enjoy it anymore.
|
| I really don't know what could be done here. I'm starting to
| think that this is simply a new form of environmental pressure
| that homo sapiens needs to adapt to. Don't fight the change,
| find ways to thrive in it.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Going outside involves spending money, so as long as the median
| income chart looks like this [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe
| dia/commons/e/e2/US_GDP_p...], expect this trend to grow.
| charlie0 wrote:
| This is 100% true in the US because nearly everything is
| commercialized and built to create profit for someone. Third
| spaces resolves this, but there aren't many of those around if
| you exclude local parks.
| _heimdall wrote:
| Its interesting that they focus only on the last 20 years. I'd
| really be more curious to see how that compares to a much longer
| timeline. How much time did people spend at home a hundred years
| ago? Or a thousand years ago?
| dadjoker wrote:
| "The changes in daily life induced by the COVID-19 pandemic
| brought renewed attention to longstanding concerns about social
| isolation in the United States."
|
| Sigh, once again, it's wasn't COVID19 itself; it was the
| paranoid, destructive over-reaction that forced isolation that
| caused this.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Think of it like "At-most-once" vs "At-least-once" semantics.
| We were either going to overreact or underreact. You want to
| overreact to a thing like COVID-19.
| dicroce wrote:
| Pet Peeve Time: Suburban neighborhoods these days typically only
| have a few entrances and exits... The effect of this is that
| unless you live in that neighborhood you won't enter it... This
| makes the streets quieter because you don't have any traffic
| passing through.. but it means that the major arteries have to
| have higher speeds... which I think isolates those neighborhoods.
| tinyhouse wrote:
| Quite neighborhoods from traffic is great. How does this
| isolate neighborhoods? Are you talking about business
| isolation? I think the article is about people spending more
| time at home.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| You can see the Starbucks and grocery store from my cousin's
| house in some new suburbs they copy and paste around Texas, but
| it takes 30 minutes to walk to it because you have to snake
| back to the single entrance and then double back along the
| highway.
|
| Unless you want to hop a fence and walk through a ditch, which
| I did, to get there in 3 minutes. And there's certainly no path
| along the highway to ride your bike.
|
| So depressing especially once you've left the US and have seen
| how much better we could design our lives.
| tinyhouse wrote:
| So many people are working from home. Nice job Sherlock, adults
| spend more time at home since Covid... I agree it's an important
| issue though.
| karaterobot wrote:
| Since removing the office from my life, I think I spend more time
| at home _and_ more time in social spaces. Meaning, obviously I
| spend an extra eight hours a day at home, but I also go out more
| than I used to. When I worked in an office and commuted every
| day, I was so exhausted after work that I didn 't want to do
| anything at night, and weekends were for recharging my battery
| for week to come. Now that I don't have to deal with that, I have
| a lot more motivation to go out and do fun stuff. The last five
| years have been the most active and happy time of my adult life.
| Probably not true for everyone, but true for me.
| hnpolicestate wrote:
| Endless comments, text and gibberish when the answer is just the
| smartphone.
| francis_t_catte wrote:
| it's almost like western society, particularly in the united
| states, has spent the last 70 years intentionally stripping away
| community and easy access to a third place.
| kpennell wrote:
| I really recommend the book Hanging Out: The Radical Power of
| Killing Time by Sheila Liming if you want to explore this issue
| more. Lots of interesting exploration about spending time in
| person.
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