[HN Gopher] Parents outraged at Snoo after smart bassinet compan...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Parents outraged at Snoo after smart bassinet company charges fee
       to rock crib
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2024-08-18 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.independent.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.independent.co.uk)
        
       | talldayo wrote:
       | A tragic catch-22. You design and build the app-enabled internet
       | rocker crib, but cannot justify supporting the app or the
       | internet support without a subscription fee.
       | 
       | Reminds me of the "Someone Who Is Good At The Economy Please Help
       | Me" memes.
        
         | upon_drumhead wrote:
         | No, I think this is greedier than that.
         | 
         | > The company's founder, Harvey Karp, said the pricing change
         | was necessary to "bring in revenue," noting that the company
         | was not underwritten by a university or the government, and
         | must survive on its sales alone. He said his ultimate goal
         | would be to see the Snoo paid for by the government or by
         | insurance companies, but it's unclear if there has been any
         | substantive movement toward achieving that end.
         | 
         | They want the government/insurance to buy them in bulk and then
         | rent seek for everyone using them. There's zero reason why for
         | the price this couldn't be done completely local and not cost
         | Snoo a cent to run. They just don't want to because the long
         | term strategy is to collect revenue forever.
        
           | idatum wrote:
           | I wonder too if the data collected via that subscription is
           | useful to monetize somehow? Maybe like health data from your
           | watch?
        
             | clintonb wrote:
             | We had a Snoo for our kid. I cannot see how anyone knowing
             | our kid was a poor sleeper when he was born, and improved
             | over six months, would be worth anything to anyone.
             | "Parents are sleep-deprived" is a pretty well-known fact at
             | this point.
        
               | atoav wrote:
               | "Your kid is a worse sleeper than most other kids, for
               | only 999,99 USD you can learn more a out the possible
               | causes"
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | I think that would be pretty good data for advertising to
               | desperate parents.
               | 
               | Hell, the fact alone that they have a $1700 bassinet
               | probably makes them a valuable target
        
             | rolph wrote:
             | a rocking basinet is a pendulum, thus mass of the child may
             | be determined on a day to day average, thus inference may
             | be made, such as when larger clothes are a good ad to push.
        
           | nickff wrote:
           | Your quote doesn't contradict the parent comment. Snoo may
           | need to "bring in revenue" because they're losing money. They
           | may, simultaneously, want to have their product purchased in
           | large quantities, as that would be another way to "bring in
           | revenue".
        
           | johnnyanmac wrote:
           | The government can't even subdize child care. What interest
           | would they have in buying a bunch of high tech baby rockers?
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | Tragic? You really think the _company_ is the poor victim??
         | 
         | Company made choices, they were bad choices. Bad business
         | deserves zero sympathy.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | I don't have any problem empathizing with business mistakes.
           | I have made bad choices both as an individual and as a
           | company.
           | 
           | Doesn't mean I am willing to subsidize them, but I get it.
        
       | etimberg wrote:
       | Similar problems exist with the Nanit baby camera. It's free to
       | view the camera from the app but to view it from their website
       | costs money.
       | 
       | That being said if you know how to run docker you can just proxy
       | the video feed to vlc pretty easily but most parents don't have
       | the time for that
        
         | Laaas wrote:
         | Why not just use a normal camera?
        
           | UniverseHacker wrote:
           | The Dormi baby monitor app works extremely well, and you can
           | install it on any old smartphone to repurpose as a baby
           | monitor. For my son, I just velcroed an outdated phone with a
           | worn out battery to the wall. It is really well designed
           | because it also notifies if the connection is lost or if
           | anything goes wrong, which a lot of expensive commercial
           | cameras don't.
        
           | jimbob45 wrote:
           | It has a few bells and whistles that are worth having. We
           | combined a Nanit camera and an Owlet sleep sock and that gave
           | us god peace-of-mind at night. I only wish we'd topped it off
           | with an analog walkie talkie as a backup in case the Wi-Fi
           | went down.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | I feel differently about that. (And it is possible that it is
         | just because I don't understand what Snoo does)
         | 
         | To view a baby camera over the internet someone has to run a
         | server. To run that server costs money. (If you think that the
         | actual server/bandwidth cost is negligible, make sure to also
         | include the cost of keeping the team employed to maintain those
         | servers.) Someone has to pay for that. Based on what you say it
         | sounds like the Nanit baby camera degrades gracefully to the
         | local only features if you don't pay the subcription. That is
         | kind of the only honest way to run a business with a connected
         | component.
         | 
         | As long as they were up-front about this at purchase I can't
         | see a problem with that.
         | 
         | How is this different from Snoo? Quite frankly I don't see how
         | the baby rocking function requires a remote connection. It
         | should be totally implemented locally inside the basinet and
         | there should be no on-going cost. Therefore the only reason
         | they might lock the feature away is due to greed.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | > To view a baby camera over the internet someone has to run
           | a server.
           | 
           | In an alternate universe with better technology, this would
           | not be true. You'd connect to a host over the WAN just as you
           | connect over the LAN. Unfortunately ISPs and firewalls and
           | NAT have made this much more difficult and complicated than
           | it should be.
           | 
           | My heart aches when I think about how many company servers
           | are out there running only to facilitate "doing X with your
           | LAN, but from the Internet".
        
       | clintonb wrote:
       | The market is saturated. Four years ago we could buy a new one
       | for $1300 or buy used on Craigslist for $800. We went with
       | Craigslist, and resold six months later for $900 (not a typo).
       | 
       | The bassinet is well-made so it would be silly to throw it out
       | after 2-3 kids. The fact that the resellers are other parents
       | makes me trust a little more that they aren't selling a
       | broken/dirty bassinet, so why buy new for double the cost?
       | 
       | They are a victim of their own success.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | It depends. One of my rules is to never buy a secondhand
         | mattress and I definitely wouldn't buy one for my baby. I'm not
         | sure off the mattress comes with this bassinet or not.
        
           | UniverseHacker wrote:
           | This article mentions that the Snoo was designed to prevent
           | SIDS, but the number one factor predicting SIDS is a used
           | mattress... and interventional studies have proven it is not
           | caused by other confounding factors like poor familes or
           | second children being more likely to have used mattresses- It
           | can be prevented with a new mattress or non-permeable
           | mattress cover.
           | 
           | The Snoo has an integrated mattress in a non-standard size,
           | but you can buy new replacements from the manufacturer.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | > the number one factor predicting SIDS is a used mattress
             | 
             | As a three-time parent who did extensive reading on SIDS
             | prevention before the first one and brushed up before each
             | of of the other two: _What?_
             | 
             | Do you have a citation for this? Because my recollection is
             | that all of these show up on the list of things to avoid
             | for SIDS but a used mattress never featured once in my
             | reading:
             | 
             | * Smoking
             | 
             | * Fuzzy stuff in the bed (stuffed animals, blankets)
             | 
             | * Sleeping on stomach
             | 
             | * Heat
        
               | UniverseHacker wrote:
               | As an anxious parent and an academic scientist, I did a
               | deep dive into the peer reviewed literature on causes of
               | SIDS when I first became a parent, which admittedly was a
               | few years back.
               | 
               | I came across what is called the "Toxic Gas" theory of
               | SIDS, which is admittedly not part of the major
               | recommendations for avoiding SIDS in the USA- but I read
               | all of the literature on it, and I found the evidence
               | quite convincing, and the dismissals to be lacking. There
               | were however dismissals in many popular review articles
               | and mainstream recommendations, but they never presented
               | an articulate rebuttal of what seemed like a reasonable
               | concept, and convincing evidence.
               | 
               | The idea is that fungi in an older dirty mattress
               | metabolize flame retardant compounds and produce toxic
               | gases, which were measured in high concentrations with a
               | mass spec on the surfaces of mattresses where infants had
               | actually died from SIDS[1].
               | 
               | Other studies found correlations with mattress age after
               | controlling for other variables, and decreases in SIDS
               | rates with interventions based on non-permeable mattress
               | wraps [2, 3].
               | 
               | Thinking about it fits neatly with some of the other risk
               | factors you mentioned, as they reduce airflow, or put the
               | infants face closer to the mattress surface.
               | 
               | I think it needs a lot more systematic studying, but it
               | seemed convincing enough for me to buy a new mattress
               | without phosphorus, arsenic or antimony containing flame
               | retardants.
               | 
               | I'm not 100% sure about this theory, but I would not let
               | any infant in my care sleep on an old mattress, or a
               | mattress with potentially toxic flame retardants.
               | 
               | Surely there isn't one single "cause of SIDS" as it is
               | just death, and any person can suddenly die at any age
               | for any number of different reasons.
               | 
               | [1] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome: a possible primary
               | cause https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S
               | 001573689...
               | 
               | [2] Used infant mattresses and sudden infant death
               | syndrome in Scotland: case-control study
               | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC131017/
               | 
               | [3] Cot Death--Cause and PreventionExperiences in New
               | Zealand 1995-2004 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.
               | 1080/1359084040001683...
        
           | doe_eyes wrote:
           | The problem with a full-size mattress is that you can't
           | really wash it thoroughly. Although, do you also have a rule
           | to never sleep at a hotel?
           | 
           | Anyway, the soft bits of these bassinets are presumably small
           | enough to fit into a washer?
        
       | taspeotis wrote:
       | > The company's founder, Harvey Karp, said ... the company was
       | not underwritten by a university or the government, and must
       | survive on its sales alone.
       | 
       | Thanks for that primer on private enterprise...
        
         | disillusioned wrote:
         | This is code for "our early investors are disappointed we
         | didn't build in a subscription model to begin with."
        
       | uoaei wrote:
       | You bought into a walled garden, now you're upset when the owner
       | of that garden decides to do some landscaping. Something tells me
       | people aren't really getting this whole "you need to own stuff to
       | have control over it" thing.
        
         | ximus wrote:
         | don't they own the crib after paying $1700?
        
           | thrtythreeforty wrote:
           | Not quite, dear customer: You own the motionless hunk of
           | plastic, and you only rent the functionality. See also
           | streaming hardware, BMW heated seats, textbooks, and home
           | security systems.
        
             | cwillu wrote:
             | Don't forget exercise equipment; last rower a friend bought
             | required a credit card before it would let you adjust the
             | tension.
        
             | pfisch wrote:
             | You don't have to pay the subscription to make it rock. The
             | subscription just tracks sleeping hours.
        
         | haswell wrote:
         | When you buy a PlayStation 5 or an iPhone, you're buying into a
         | walled garden. People generally understand the implications of
         | their choice of garden.
         | 
         | Looking at this product on Amazon right now, there's zero
         | indication that there's some subscription component, nor would
         | I have any reason as a potential buyer to suspect that there's
         | a garden, much less a wall.
         | 
         | To say nothing of the ridiculousness of the restriction itself.
         | For all of the problems with walled gardens, they generally
         | come with tradeoffs, some of which are beneficial.
         | 
         | This looks like nothing but pure dark patterns and greed.
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | You imply there is some moral relevance to commerce. There is
           | not. You either own a thing to control it, or you do not. I'm
           | not saying relying on goodwill and enforcement is naive, but
           | you always have to keep the possibility in mind that somebody
           | somewhere will implement some new feature locking you out of
           | the experience you expected, _unless you own the thing_.
        
       | UniverseHacker wrote:
       | The SNOO is cheaply made and poorly engineered despite the
       | incredibly high price- and there isn't much to it. It should cost
       | ~$45, not the $1695 it actually costs.
       | 
       | I recently rebuilt a used snoo myself for my newborn nephew, and
       | was shocked to see that it is built to move everything on rubber
       | rollers, and those rollers use the wrong material, so they both
       | slip and grind to dust quickly.
       | 
       | That said- it works. I would have given my right arm for one when
       | my son was newborn and had "colic" and would literally scream
       | continuously from 10pm to 4am everyday for months. I was up all
       | night holding him by myself, using the method developed by Dr.
       | Harvey Karp (who later founded SNOO)- which is exactly what the
       | SNOO copies and replicates automatically, which is the only thing
       | that would calm him. It was exhausting, and I started to
       | hallucinate frequently, and make dangerously bad decisions from
       | lack of sleep. I think the SNOO would have saved me.
        
         | cwillu wrote:
         | > built to move everything on rubber rollers, and those rollers
         | use the wrong material, so they both slip and grind to dust
         | quickly.
         | 
         | Sounds like it was designed deliberately to reduce the
         | aftermarket supply. Maybe the first person can sell it, but
         | avoiding the creation of a robust secondary market has been the
         | dream of a great many MBAs.
        
         | etrautmann wrote:
         | We borrowed a snoo and set it all up before giving birth -
         | everything was ready. Come home from the hospital with a one
         | day old and it refuses to connect to the app. At some point
         | after spending 45 min debugging and resetting the device I
         | realized how awful this experience was. Internet of shit.
        
           | mtmail wrote:
           | Did it eventually work?
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Smart devices' biggest appeal is that they can turn what was
           | a one-off sale to a recurring subscription.
           | 
           | When I say "appeal" I mean to the company, not to the
           | customer, of course.
        
         | er4hn wrote:
         | Where can you get a better built and cheaper bassinet?
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | Basically anything you can find on Craigslist/FB
           | Marketplace/your local equivalent for <$100.
           | 
           | It's a small bed on wheels--everything you do that makes it
           | more expensive than that also adds unnecessary moving parts
           | that can break.
        
       | sklargh wrote:
       | Am I the only one who thinks this is unfair? If you use the Snoo
       | successfully it gets you two-plus hours of sleep a night. That's
       | magical as a parent of a newborn.
       | 
       | We're talking about a critical app for a hardware device that has
       | a lifespan of several babies (ours is going on six as it
       | circulates among friends). We should reward people who make
       | hardware so durable and effective that they've sold so many of
       | them they need to find another revenue stream.
       | 
       | We talk a lot in this community about maintainers getting paid.
       | Here is a company within a ferociously regulated and risky market
       | doing that.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | I suspect maintainers would complain a lot less if everyone
         | paid them $1700 first.
        
         | sowbug wrote:
         | Bassinets don't need maintainers.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | > sensors that detect when the baby is crying and simulates the
       | sounds of the womb to help keep babies
       | 
       | I realize this may come off as a bit insensitive but isn't this
       | taking away a chance to bond with your child? Children not being
       | physically held enough at young age has lifelong implications
        
         | dhon_ wrote:
         | Humans are complex. It depends greatly on the situation.
        
         | dap wrote:
         | > I realize this may come off as a bit insensitive but isn't
         | this taking away a chance to bond with your child?
         | 
         | Having a Snoo doesn't mean you never hold your child. Newborns
         | provide many such opportunities. You don't need to take them
         | all. See the comment above about a newborn that needed this for
         | 6 hours a night for months.
         | 
         | > Children not being physically held enough at young age has
         | lifelong implications
         | 
         | Citation needed? This is the sort of thing that people use to
         | argue against sleep training, too, but I don't believe much
         | evidence has been found for that.
        
           | grvbck wrote:
           | > Citation needed? This is the sort of thing that people use
           | to argue against sleep training, too, but I don't believe
           | much evidence has been found for that.
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4088358/
           | 
           | https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0504767102
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502223/
           | 
           | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9599775/
           | 
           | https://doi.org/10.4324/9780203758045
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8250458/
           | 
           | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33924970/
           | 
           | https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-67860-2_.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14984130/
           | 
           | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infant-touch/
        
         | doe_eyes wrote:
         | Some infants cry a lot. Not every instance is a magical bonding
         | opportunity, especially since you still need to get stuff done.
         | 
         | There are high-tech child-rearing trends that I suspect might
         | be doing harm, but a rocking bassinet probably isn't one.
        
           | pfisherman wrote:
           | Which high tech child rearing trends do you think are
           | harmful? Just curious.
        
         | etrautmann wrote:
         | No, this does not take the place of physical interaction.
         | You'll get a ton of that too. Rocking your baby to sleep isn't
         | a great plan anyway.
        
         | ilickpoolalgae wrote:
         | Maybe, but the extra few hours we got of sleep each night meant
         | the quality of interaction/bonding during our awake hours was
         | higher.
        
         | er4hn wrote:
         | The first 3 months after my daughter was born I slept next to
         | her while she was in this. If she was hungry or needed a change
         | she'd let me know. This helped her sleep and helped the rest of
         | us get some rest as well.
        
         | Flop7331 wrote:
         | Do you feel that way about shushing?
        
       | oldpersonintx wrote:
       | new parents are so easy to scam, they all want the best for their
       | new child, and they think that means blowing $$$$ on too-deluxe
       | baby gear they will only use for a short period of time
       | 
       | we fell for it...plonked down $$$ for the deluxe stroller...used
       | it four times
        
         | pfisch wrote:
         | That's fine, but the snoo isn't a scam. It works really well,
         | and is far superior to any other bassinet on the market.
         | 
         | If you value your sleep the snoo is worth it, and frankly I
         | suspect there is a significant consumer base that would pay an
         | even higher price for it.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | I'm curious why you only used the stroller 4 times. We also
         | decided on a very expensive stroller and infant cat seat, and
         | we're pretty happy with them. Assuming the stroller continues
         | to work well for 3ish years I think we'll have no regrets.
         | 
         | Of course, we don't know how happy we'd have been with a
         | cheaper option. That probably would have been fine too. But the
         | build quality seems noticeable and it doesn't feel like we got
         | taken advantage of.
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | > The company's founder, Harvey Karp, said the pricing change was
       | necessary to "bring in revenue,
       | 
       | That sounds like a "you" problem.
        
       | _8L34K wrote:
       | I'm not sure I understand the $1700 price tag. Self rocking
       | bassinets can be had for a couple hundred dollars. Many have the
       | same functionality, with cry detection and white noise
       | capabilities. They also don't require the use of an app, it's
       | just a self contained unit. Where is the 500% upcharge going?
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | The cloud, of course.
        
         | pfisch wrote:
         | That is not true. Show me another self rocking bassinet like
         | the snoo.
         | 
         | Also the snoo does not require the app at all.
        
           | _8L34K wrote:
           | Just google "self rocking bassinet", but that is also why I
           | asked - so if you are confident enough to say it's not true,
           | then please explain.
           | 
           | Does it just come down to a different controller/set of
           | algorithms for governing the rocking/white noise
           | capabilities? The product itself doesn't seem to cost $1700
           | dollars to produce - it seems to be a bassinet on rollers
           | with a motor attached that can play sound.
        
       | sarchertech wrote:
       | I bought a Miku camera because it has a few extra features that I
       | wanted and unlike the competition there was no monthly fee.
       | 
       | Well then they screwed up by pushing a bad over the air update
       | that literally bricked all operating cameras. They made that
       | right by replacing them all, but then they went bankrupt.
       | 
       | A new company bought their assets during bankruptcy and the first
       | thing they did was add a monthly fee to use any of the "advanced"
       | features (all the reasons I bought it in the first place.)
        
       | lolinder wrote:
       | I can't even imagine spending $1700 on a bassinet in the first
       | place. As the article notes, this thing gets used for ~5 months
       | (6 if you're _really_ pushing it) at which point the kid is done.
       | If you 're going to have another kid then you put it into storage
       | for a few years before it gets a second round of 5 months of use
       | (assuming the company you bought your smart bassinet from doesn't
       | brick it in the interim).
       | 
       | At its simplest, it's a tiny bed on wheels and you can pick one
       | up for free from a local parent. If you want to get really fancy
       | you can get a self-rocking bassinet for <$400.
       | 
       | Who are these people who are willing to spend $1700 on a bassinet
       | but then get outraged when the clearly-exploitative company
       | decides to exploit them for another $100?
        
         | id00 wrote:
         | Used it for both of my kids. Both times we bought a used one
         | for $800 and sold for the same price after it was no longer
         | needed.
        
         | px1999 wrote:
         | The aftermarket for these things means that the cost winds up
         | being split between multiple parties in a lot of cases.
         | 
         | Anecdotally, most parents within my circle bought their Snoo
         | used and sold it after use. I bought an unopened snoo from
         | facebook marketplace for $X and sold it after 6 months for
         | $X-200.
         | 
         | I was a little annoyed that Happiest Baby is meddling with the
         | resale value (because I was expecting to be able to sell it on
         | after a few months of use)
         | 
         | IMO even though the product is overpriced, I'd have happily
         | paid 5k for the extra sleep I believe it gave me.
        
       | rahimnathwani wrote:
       | Happy Baby customers received an email in June alerting them to
       | the change in pricing. Buyers who picked up a Snoo before July 15
       | were grandfathered into the previous structure, while anyone who
       | bought after that was locked into the subscription model.
        
       | rzimmerman wrote:
       | The Snoo is great and the key feature that actually helps prevent
       | SIDS is the restraints and swaddle, which is not being moved to a
       | subscription here. It's actually FDA approved to reduce the risk
       | of SIDS. The "bonus" rocking and soothing noises just help
       | parents get more sleep.
       | 
       | The Snoo is very expensive and easy to pass down or buy used. I
       | think they probably screwed up by selling it outright. You can
       | rent the Snoo, which is probably a better model for everyone.
       | This is kind of a janky way to pull back some of the rental
       | revenue they lost by selling a durable product that people only
       | need for a few months.
       | 
       | It feels gross, I get it. But it's effectively a $100 per child
       | fee which is quite reasonable given the benefits. And there's no
       | realistic way to charge for that other than subscription for the
       | premium (non-safety) stuff. The alternative is to keep developing
       | new models with new features and adding crap people don't need.
       | One thing I love about the original Snoo is that it works fine
       | without an Internet connection or app. I used the app and it was
       | great, but it's nice to know that when you travel or lose power,
       | it can still rock your baby and soothe them. I hope that's still
       | the case if there's a subscription involved.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | > the key feature that actually helps prevent SIDS is the
         | restraints and swaddle
         | 
         | Just a note that the NIH guidelines specifically call out this
         | marketing claim as BS:
         | 
         | > Even though swaddling does not reduce the risk of SIDS, some
         | babies are calmer and sleep better when they are swaddled. Even
         | though swaddling does not reduce the risk of SIDS, some babies
         | are calmer and sleep better when they are swaddled.
         | 
         | They also call out the monitors specifically as also useless
         | for SIDS and issue a general warning that products that claim
         | to reduce SIDS are nearly-universally not useful and are often
         | counterproductive.
         | 
         | https://safetosleep.nichd.nih.gov/reduce-risk/reduce
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | > And there's no realistic way to charge for that other than
         | subscription for the premium (non-safety) stuff. The
         | alternative is to keep developing new models with new features
         | and adding crap people don't need.
         | 
         | There's another alternative: simply sell them for a little more
         | than they cost. Just keep doing that. Solid business plan.
        
       | big-green-man wrote:
       | Anybody who buys stuff like this deserves what they get.
        
       | pvillano wrote:
       | Why don't they just rent the thing entirely, six months at a
       | time? Recurring revenue, tiered pricing, no secondhand market,
       | and less waste from planned obsolescence.
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | They offer rental, too
         | https://www.happiestbaby.com/products/snoo-rental
        
         | ilickpoolalgae wrote:
         | We rented but we know a lot of parents that didn't because they
         | didn't want a "used" bed for their newborn. To each their own.
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | Meanwhile Finnish babies sleep in the cardboard box that
       | originally contained a government-supplied cache of baby clothes,
       | pillows, blankets, and even a toy and book or two, while their
       | parents are _both_ given 160 days (32 five-day work weeks) of
       | paternal leave to care for the kid.
       | 
       | Capitalism!
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | Photo of the baby box and contents:
         | https://yle.fi/a/74-20083915
        
       | ilickpoolalgae wrote:
       | I took a look at the features that are locked out and they seem
       | reasonable to be behind a subscription as they require costs to
       | maintain. Almost all of the features that do not require some
       | sort of cloud service connection seem to remain free. It's also
       | free for people who use the rental option.
       | 
       | Backlash is also understandable as they are changing the status
       | quo.
       | 
       | Disclosure: We rented a Snoo and it was made a huge difference
       | between our first (no Snoo) and second child.
       | 
       | https://www.happiestbaby.com/blogs/snoo/premium-app-features....
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | What? Almost none of those features require costs to maintain:
         | 
         | - Car Ride Mode - adds extra bounces
         | 
         | - Level Lock - don't change rhythm
         | 
         | - Sleepytime Sounds - play sounds before and after sleep
         | 
         | and so on.
         | 
         | The only ones I can see? Tracking, Sleep Logs (but I'd also
         | argue that given that this is a smart device, I'd say that they
         | could be expected baselines).
         | 
         | But as for the other, without being argumentative, I am
         | sincerely struggling why it seems reasonable to you that "extra
         | bounces", etc. are a Premium "subscription" feature.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | About half of those premium features should not require a
         | server or company-borne "costs to maintain." This seems like a
         | pure cash grab: what subscription will the market bear?
        
         | Flop7331 wrote:
         | Very few of the premium features really require a cloud
         | connection. The ones that do arguably aren't what the Snoo is
         | for, e.g. diaper tracking.
        
       | pfisch wrote:
       | There is no fee to make it rock. This just isn't true.
        
       | jarrettcoggin wrote:
       | My wife and I are currently borrowing a Snoo from a friend and
       | have found it very helpful. Our daughter is 8+ weeks and
       | regularly sleeping 7+ hours in a single stretch each night,
       | probably heavily due to the Snoo. When we first got the Snoo, we
       | saw an immediate change in our daughter's sleep where she went
       | from having a unreliable 2-3 hour stretch between feedings to a
       | solid 3+ hours between feedings with less fits during her sleep
       | and also falling to sleep faster when we put her in the Snoo.
       | 
       | We understand the desire for the company to make money, but we
       | feel there's a happy middle-ground where the Snoo could have the
       | premium app subscription waived for the first child (6-12 months
       | premium subscription free), but require a fee for the app for
       | future children. That being said, the Snoo has been advertised
       | for years around the core features that are now being locked
       | behind a subscription.
       | 
       | We are very fortunate to be borrowing the Snoo from our friend,
       | but it definitely makes us second guess buying a Snoo if the
       | price goes up due to the "mandatory" subscription fee. Would we
       | still use the Snoo even if we had to pay the subscription fee?
       | Most likely, because one is ultimately buying sleep back by using
       | a Snoo. At the same time, the Snoo does not work for every child
       | and we've heard of multiple parents in our friend circles who
       | bought the Snoo but didn't end up using it because it didn't work
       | for their children. It's kind of an expensive, risky bet to make
       | for the potential chance that it may not work out.
       | 
       | I personally think the Snoo is overpriced and think the true
       | price is probably around $1,000, but it sounds like there are
       | inefficiencies to be ironed out on Happiest Baby's side. The
       | "mattresses" the Snoo comes with are simple foam and it's made up
       | of a ton of plastic. Not being a physical product engineer
       | myself, I think it could probably be re-engineered to bring the
       | cost down while retaining the same feature set.
        
       | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
       | Let's write some open source bassinet firmware.
        
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