[HN Gopher] Nu-Klear Fallout Detector (ca. 1962-1968)
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       Nu-Klear Fallout Detector (ca. 1962-1968)
        
       Author : cryptoz
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2024-08-15 01:59 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.orau.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.orau.org)
        
       | cryptoz wrote:
       | We had one of these in the house when I was a kid in the 90s.
       | Seriously wild to learn what it was when I was like 12, after
       | some years of not understanding ha. Never really was sure if it
       | would work or not.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Sadly the article doesn't say if they actually work or whether
         | they are snake oil.
        
           | maxbond wrote:
           | Poking around I found this video, where a university
           | professor demonstrates the principle with a snow globe
           | (containing virtually the same beads) and a strontium 90
           | source.
           | 
           | https://youtube.com/watch?v=3kHfXntPMoI
           | 
           | I think they would work as advertised. I'm not sure that
           | makes them entirely _not_ snake oil, though.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | There's a short fictional account of a science teacher
       | constructing a gold leaf electroscope using stuff in the school,
       | and plaster dug out of the wall of the classroom to help map
       | radioactivity after a limited-strike nuclear war, in "Warday" by
       | Whitley Strieber & James Kunetka. (at least one of these authors
       | has a bit of a nutty back-story, It's important to remember the
       | book lies solidly in the realms of fiction)
       | 
       | I always thought it was somewhat fantastical. I'm rather
       | delighted they could have beaded some polystyrene and stuck it in
       | a cup for much the same effect.
       | 
       | Several SF novels mention using scintillation plastic. Is that
       | also simply fantasy, or are there passive scintillation meters
       | which could in fact detect levels of radioactivity? The 1900s
       | models demanded 20 minutes of acclimatisation inside a dark
       | chamber and were notoriously hard to use. Rutherford refused to
       | use a counter while he could show his trained workers (women
       | mainly) were as accurate. Those counters were photomultiplier
       | tubes. I think quite a lot of the tech here was a precursor to
       | TV, and ultimately the CCD in some ways.
       | 
       | Filmstrip exposure would tell you about a lethal dose, after the
       | event. Helpful for budding scientists if they have enough lab
       | rats to send out with a chunk of film in a wrapper.
        
         | prpl wrote:
         | Polyvinyl toluene is scintillation plastic.
        
           | jprd wrote:
           | Not the same thing, but had me remembering the "official" way
           | of disposing of toluene after Chemistry lab in my US High
           | School.
           | 
           | Carefully carry it to the window overlooking the lower roof.
           | Toss it on the roof. Let it evaporate.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | We poured ours down the drain.
        
         | dabluecaboose wrote:
         | Sounds like youre looking for the Kearny Fallout Meter:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kearny_fallout_meter
        
         | labcomputer wrote:
         | Scintillation plastic is very much a thing. Big accelerators,
         | like CERN or Fermilab, used to use long, floppy strips of
         | plastic attached to a photomultiplier tube, which goes to the
         | counters. I believe they still use scintillator detectors
         | farther from the collision region, but the trend has been to
         | move towards silicon pixel detectors closer in.
         | 
         | One thing with scintillators though: You're typically detecting
         | a few photons at a time, so a photomultiplier tube (PMT) is
         | really required for any kind of reasonable SNR with any kind of
         | reasonable temporal resolution.
         | 
         | > Those counters were photomultiplier tubes.
         | 
         | A PMT is actually not a counter (but they are normally used
         | _with_ a counter). It 's just a transducer that produces
         | electrical charge at the output in response to photons at the
         | input.
         | 
         | Normally the PMT is connected to a "discriminator" (very fast
         | voltage threshold detector, with adjustable threshold(s)) which
         | takes the very narrow pulses (~2-3 ns) from the PMT and
         | stretches them into pulses with fixed rise time, width and
         | voltage. Those pulses are then counted using whatever hardware
         | you can dream up.
         | 
         | A PMT is really just an electron multiplier with a photocathode
         | in front, so you have all the same issues as you do with
         | electron multipliers and thus use a discriminator for all the
         | same reasons (mainly to remove "runt pulses" that didn't
         | originate from a photon at the input window). Normally you'd
         | use a single level discriminator, but "multi-channel" ones
         | exist also.
         | 
         | Having an adjustable threshold on the discriminator is
         | important to maximize SNR because the electron multiplier
         | within the PMT will wear out and produce smaller pulses, and
         | there can be significant variation in pulse size across serial
         | numbers.
         | 
         | > Rutherford refused to use a counter while he could show his
         | trained workers (women mainly) were as accurate.
         | 
         | I'm skeptical of this account, and the only thing I can find
         | with a quick Google is that Rutherford hired women to count
         | scintillation events because he could pay them less than
         | men(-counters).
        
       | zombot wrote:
       | I once built an advertising efficacy detector. It was a voltmeter
       | connected to a solar cell. The more light there was in a shop
       | window, the stronger its advertising effect.
       | 
       | Does this detector work equally well?
        
       | Firerouge wrote:
       | Accounting for inflation, the advertised price for one of these
       | would of been roughly $240!
        
       | wibbily wrote:
       | Theodore Gray has one of these in his periodic table. This quote
       | stood out to me:
       | 
       | "I've held this thing up to the strongest sources of radiation I
       | have and the balls don't budge... I think it's safe to say that
       | if you do ever see the balls drop, you should run, not walk, to
       | wherever you think there might be less radiation around."
       | 
       | https://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/094.4/index.s...
        
         | maxbond wrote:
         | This website design is absurd and I love it. It works really
         | well as a document but the skeumorph of it being a physical
         | periodic table with samples that's also a wooden desk gets so
         | disconnected from a physical metaphor as you drill in. Like, my
         | desk has a zoom control?
         | 
         | It has that feeling of hand spun websites from the aughts
         | maintained with such care, like a curio cabinet. It's been a
         | long time since I just clicked around one of these. There's a
         | lot to be said for the simple and minimalistic designs that are
         | more conventional today, and I'm going to continue laying out
         | my HTML that way, but in comparison they're woefully lacking in
         | character.
        
       | anovikov wrote:
       | Why not buy a normal radiometer? They are so cheap and mass
       | produced.
       | 
       | These days digital integrating radiometers are able to not just
       | integrate dose over time, but also adjust for dose rate effects
       | (i.e. same amount radiation absorbed over shorter time is more
       | harmful), and ratio of beta, gamma, and neutrons. And they cost
       | in the range of $200. I still keep my CD V-715 somewhere in the
       | closet, though.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | The "prepper" mindset was rampant in the 1960s because of
         | uncertainty and fear around nuclear war. Radiation detectors
         | would have been still costly for the average Joe, and this
         | allowed people to feel _some_ level of preparedness.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | > and this allowed people to feel some level of preparedness.
           | 
           | I can imagine it now:
           | 
           | "I can now afford to buy a device that will inform me if I'm
           | about to die"
        
             | NelsonMinar wrote:
             | It's hideous but it's a sort of psychology that makes sense
             | to me. You're faced with this overwhelming existential
             | threat you can't really understand. And here's a cute
             | consumer device marketed to you to that promises to give
             | you some idea what might be happening. It's a way of
             | establishing the feeling of control, even if it doesn't
             | work very well.
        
             | anovikov wrote:
             | No, having some radiation indicating device is a lot better
             | than not having one. It at least shows when it's safe to
             | leave your basement for a short while or not.
        
       | pnw wrote:
       | I managed to find two of the missing patents mentioned on that
       | page, because there's a picture of a device with four patent
       | numbers on it.
       | 
       | https://patents.google.com/patent/US3093737A/en?oq=3093737
       | 
       | According to the patent Walter Shriner was based in Springfield,
       | Illinois, which was mentioned as "ground zero" for these devices.
       | 
       | Shriners patent references the older 568 patent by Failla, who
       | assigned it to the Atomic Energy Commission.
       | 
       | https://patents.google.com/patent/US2731568A/en?oq=2731568
        
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