[HN Gopher] A Texas "moth man" photographed 550 species in his o...
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       A Texas "moth man" photographed 550 species in his own yard
        
       Author : anarbadalov
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2024-08-16 15:04 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.texasmonthly.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.texasmonthly.com)
        
       | tocs3 wrote:
       | I like this sort of thing. Someone exploring his own little
       | environment. It seems like the sort of thing we should be hearing
       | more about. Maybe some high schools should start promoting some
       | of this.
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | They really should. I know most of the nature documenting I do
         | is totally old hat to anyone actually doing field studies, but
         | the experience is so enriching.
         | 
         | The other day I spent 4 hours recording baby coho salmon in
         | disconnected pools along a creek bed. Coho have been researched
         | enough so I'm not doing anything particularly important, but in
         | the process I learned some really cool stuff:
         | 
         | - The creek bed is absolutely filled with sculpins. A pool
         | perhaps 3 inches deep and 3 feet in diameter could contain over
         | a dozen of them
         | 
         | - Tiny puddles containing perhaps 500ml of water contained half
         | a dozen fish or so; typically sculpins and sticklebacks but
         | occasionally coho fry as well
         | 
         | - As the water levels were lowering, dozens of huge ravens were
         | staked out and waiting for stranded fish. I returned days later
         | and sure enough, every dried body of water had been picked
         | clean
         | 
         | - The sheer number of nymphs, larvae, and adult arthropods was
         | staggering once I looked closely
         | 
         | - Under every rock on the dried creek bed I could find
         | everything from developing insects to animals like frogs hiding
         | out
         | 
         | The amount of life far exceeded what I expected. And the
         | diversity of life from micro to macro was also amazing. To
         | think the creek bed extends several kilometres and it's
         | essentially all like this for most of it (though much drier
         | higher up). I can't wait to explore it more. I'm mostly curious
         | how the coho will manage before rains return, and at this point
         | it looks pretty grim. Some pools with at least 100 individuals
         | will almost certainly be okay, but many more smaller pools
         | containing dozens of fish are rapidly draining. The ravens are
         | having an easy summer, I think.
         | 
         | edit: I have some videos and photos here https://steve-
         | adams.me/coho/ (I don't normally share what I record but
         | recently decided I might as well, because I wish more people
         | did).
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | I saw a plume moth the other day and thought it was an IUD lol
        
       | darth_avocado wrote:
       | I'm more impressed by the fact that 550 species visited his yard.
       | Must have a really boss yard.
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Only 10k more to go. There really are an obscene number of moth
         | (and beetle) species.
        
         | digging wrote:
         | Probably does, but if you pay close attention to the moths
         | around your house over a year, I expect you'll exceed your
         | estimates by an order of magnitude at least. They're incredibly
         | diverse. (And many are super small, that you probably don't
         | normally pay attention to or realize are moths.)
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Is not really difficult to find this amount of biodiversity on
         | most wild temperate gardens. With some effort you can easily
         | have a collection of two thousand species of plants on a middle
         | size garden if you want, plus animals attracted by those
         | plants.
         | 
         | On tropical ones the number should be much, much higher.
        
       | joss82 wrote:
       | Texas yard is the size of a small country
        
         | gottorf wrote:
         | Fun fact: El Paso, TX is closer to the Pacific (via the Gulf of
         | California) than it is to its own state capital, Austin.
        
       | xipho wrote:
       | One of my previous advisors, while working on a PhD in sociality
       | in insects, had a lot of time to spend in a front lawn in New
       | York City. Trained to observe he recorded hundreds of species, on
       | that lawn. Another insect curator I worked with (also from
       | Texas), collected in a nearby park throughout his lifetime (still
       | is I'm sure). Collected well over 1000 species of beetles, alone.
       | Both were highly, highly trained, in a way that is increasingly
       | disappearing. There are many, many other stories like this. That
       | training included as much how and where to look as it did
       | technical assessment (e.g. what you needed to see to identify
       | species). Because of a whole pile of factors, stubborn old-
       | timers, new technologies, lack of foresight and vision, we're
       | losing that expertise rapidly. By the time we need answers from
       | the vast genetic experiments that come from the lab that is
       | Earth's evolution, we'll not know where, or how to look for them.
        
         | NavinF wrote:
         | I think it's more so that people aren't interested. If you
         | trained a neural network to classify species using photos taken
         | through a binocular microscope, I'm sure you could match human
         | performance. If you used hyperspectral photos you could achieve
         | superhuman performance.
        
           | pvaldes wrote:
           | > I'm sure you could match human performance
           | 
           | Not. You still would need an human to sample this moths, kill
           | them appropriately, and manipulate it carefully to move it in
           | the correct position under your binocular in the correct
           | light and place. They are fragile and you can't do it without
           | an human.
           | 
           | Would be worse than what you have currently. No capability to
           | sample selectively, or to jump in advance to all the
           | interesting parts (instead to do all the walk for every
           | single species).
           | 
           | In the end you will have a worst performance, much more work
           | to do, and none of the trained experts available to put any
           | control in your system. Mimetic moths can deceive even a well
           | trained expert.
        
             | spunker540 wrote:
             | What if we swap the computer vision solution for a genetic
             | sequencing solution? Can DNA tests can do moth
             | identification at human-level performance?
        
               | xipho wrote:
               | AI, DNA, morphology. Biodiversity is vast, and diverse.
               | Figuring out the clusters within it (there a huge range
               | of concepts of what a species [== clusters] is), and
               | figuring out how that cluster can be meaningfully applied
               | to issues that affect humans takes time, a lot of time.
               | We commonly say in our research group that all of these
               | are just another tool, we should embrace them all, but we
               | can't escape the time it takes to work with the data at
               | all levels. All the sequencing, AI, and even plain-old
               | pictures in the world doesn't matter if you don't know
               | how to catch the beast. And there are millions and
               | millions of things to look at, all over the world. Again,
               | in working with data at this scope on a day-today basis,
               | not even big data, just broad, I'm struck with how little
               | we can relate to this vastness, and I've been trained for
               | decades to work with it.
               | 
               | We have videos from last years conference that highlight
               | the tech that tries to rapidly barcode species, that can
               | give you a flavour of the complexity involved. This is
               | perhaps the world's leading taxonomists exploring how,
               | practically, to do such:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX_1wdmROhU.
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | Maybe something like a solar powered game camera only for
           | ant-sized game. Folks seem to go for the Haikubox[0] for bird
           | sound recognition using BirdNet[1].
           | 
           | I'd love to see the little spiders or maybe silkworms that
           | lay tiny lines in the grass of my neighborhood that shimmer
           | in the low morning light and dew.
           | 
           | 0. https://haikubox.com/
           | 
           | 1. https://birdnet.cornell.edu/
        
           | Ovah wrote:
           | I'm very active on iNaturalist. The name suggestions made
           | there by image recognition, at least for the genus I work
           | with, is a complete and utter joke. >98% of name suggestions
           | for that group are incorrect. As soon as a genus becomes
           | diverse, it classifies everything as a single species instead
           | of a genus. It does not have ability to recognize 'the
           | unknown'. Most of my time on that website is wasted on
           | clearing up gross incorrect name suggestions from AI that
           | people accept without any checks of plausibility. Even with
           | species that have >2000 confirmed observations, it still
           | incorrectly suggests the name for obviously completely
           | unrelated species. You didn't take the time to explain what
           | you mean with 'hyperspectral' but I'm assuming it just
           | introduces a new dataset where we start all over.
        
             | s0rce wrote:
             | I get quite a few genus level suggestions when it can't
             | determine to the species level. I'm not an expert
             | taxonomist so I'm sure there are still many overly specific
             | incorrect assignments.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | In 7th grade we had a project to collect, euthanize with
         | alcohol and pin insects for classification and study. Every kid
         | in that class, had to collect 50-100 insects with zero training
         | and most were quite successful. I'm not sure this means
         | anything, but I was amazed at the diversity of the species
         | collected by my classmates.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | What do you mean? There are more stem PhDs than ever before.
         | Field work is still happening. More than ever perhaps with the
         | ever present desire for genomic surveys of natural populations.
         | Not just in academic work but in industry supported work as
         | well.
        
       | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
       | For those that don't know, there's a double entendre on the story
       | title.
       | 
       | The "moth man" is a well known urban legend in northeastern USA.
       | A movie was even filmed on the premise [1] . A "texas mothman"
       | playfully may suggest to some that the terror is "migrating"
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mothman_Prophecies_(film...
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | And mothman was allegedly seen in Chicago too! Kyle Kinane does
         | a fantastic Chicago Mothman accent:
         | https://podcasts.apple.com/lu/podcast/chicago-mothman/id1139...
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | The Mythical Man-Moth
         | 
         | -- Apologies to Fred Brooks
        
           | oddthink wrote:
           | Elizabeth Bishop was there first:
           | https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47537/the-man-moth
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | Monster self-help manuals are something I didn't know I
           | wanted until right now. And it turns out a lot of them still
           | work without changing the titles.
           | 
           | -Opening Your Presence: Presenting the YOU You Want Others to
           | See
           | 
           | For ghosts.
           | 
           | -Good Power: Leading Positive Change in Our Lives, Work, and
           | World
           | 
           | Frankenstein's monster
           | 
           | -True North
           | 
           | The yeti
           | 
           | -Once an Eagle
           | 
           | Rok
           | 
           | -multipliers
           | 
           | Werewolves or Dracula maybe?
        
         | ssl-3 wrote:
         | As a native of Ohio who has visited The Moth Man Museum[0], I
         | take certain exception to this region being called
         | "northeastern USA."
         | 
         | It's close, but it's not quite there [1].
         | 
         | 0: https://www.mothmanmuseum.com/
         | 
         | 1: https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/united-
         | sta...
        
       | gyanreyer wrote:
       | I just saw an Ailanthus Webworm moth this morning in Michigan and
       | was struck by how different it looked from most insects I see
       | here. They're native to the south but have apparently been
       | starting to adapt to colder conditions and move further north
       | thanks to the massive explosion of the horribly invasive Tree of
       | Heaven, which is somehow still legal for nurseries to sell even
       | though it is extremely aggressive and is a host for Spotted
       | Lanternflies.
       | 
       | Anyways, since I've gotten into native plant gardening I have
       | gained a huge appreciation for insects. You can find some really
       | amazing things in your own yard if you pay attention.
        
       | laristine wrote:
       | https://archive.is/zjEuP
        
       | GaggiX wrote:
       | This man is probably one of the very few who have read hundreds
       | or possibly thousands of obscure Wikipedia pages about various
       | species and families of moths. Some of the most obscure Wikipedia
       | pages are about species of moth.
        
       | zeagle wrote:
       | > Moths aren't just pretty to look at; they're also important
       | pollinators and a major source of food for birds and bats. But
       | moths, like insects overall, are declining in both raw numbers
       | and species diversity. Eckerman says recent studies have shown at
       | least a 30 percent decline in insect abundance around the world
       | over the past few decades. The likely culprits are pesticides and
       | the loss of habitat to urban development. A threat to insects
       | such as moths is a threat to the plants they pollinate and all
       | the creatures above them in the food chain.
       | 
       | It's amazing the drop in biodiversity of insects that comes from
       | habitat destruction, monoculture, pesticide (ab)use. As a kid
       | we'd drive across the prairies and have to wipe literal goop off
       | the windshield and side view mirrors at each gas station...
       | 
       | We planted native prairie plants throughout our yard roughly
       | sequenced that something is always flowering. This morning I saw
       | at least a dozen wild bees on one bunch of goldenrod* and nothing
       | on the annuals next to it.
       | 
       | * https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services...
       | (not invasive for my region)
        
         | 2cynykyl wrote:
         | I remember the first time someone pointed out this lack of bug
         | splatter to me and I was a bit scared about humanity's fate,
         | but then someone else pointed out that our cars are a LOT more
         | aerodynamic now. Not sure which side to land on here.
        
           | frereubu wrote:
           | This UK study used number plates, which haven't changed form
           | between the two years (2004 and 2021), and have found a
           | decline of just under 60%. Aerodynamics may have something to
           | do with it, but I know from driving through insect-abundant
           | areas recently that you still get plenty of splatter in
           | modern cars.
           | 
           | Overview: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2022/may/uks-
           | flying-inse...
           | 
           | Study PDF: https://cdn.buglife.org.uk/2022/05/Bugs-
           | Matter-2021-National...
        
             | doikor wrote:
             | The number plate is still attached to the car and thus the
             | shape of the rest of the car affects how air moves over it.
             | 
             | How much is hard to say. Aerodynamics is just hard but
             | basically as the car moves through air it pushes air out of
             | the way and this air also pushes other air out of the way
             | and thus elements next to each other will effect each
             | other.
        
               | bongodongobob wrote:
               | It's the very front point of the car, that should be
               | perfectly fine unless the plate or bumper is at some kind
               | of an angle.
        
           | zeagle wrote:
           | I have to say seems like wishful thinking. Sure cars have
           | changed and aren't insect traps but at 80km/h bugs splatter
           | on a windshield. The decline of insect biomass has been well
           | reported, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29045418
           | although not uniform. I've spent some time in northern areas
           | where the bugs are bad!
        
         | pnw wrote:
         | >Moths aren't just pretty to look at
         | 
         | Interestingly I know two people who are absolutely terrified of
         | moths and cannot stand to even be in the same room.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | I'm one as well.
           | 
           | I realize it's an entirely irrational phobia. Moths,
           | caterpillars, and grubs absolutely horrify me. It's something
           | to do with them having a combination of exoskeleton-like
           | insect-y parts and soft, fuzzy, or squishy non-insect-y
           | parts.
           | 
           | Actual bugs are OK (though I don't particularly like them).
           | Snails are fine. Slugs are... less fine but tolerable. Moths,
           | caterpillars and grubs make my skin crawl. Sea slugs are the
           | absolute worst.
           | 
           | Phobias are so weird.
        
         | duckmysick wrote:
         | On the other hand, the box tree moth seems to be doing fine -
         | to the dismay of many gardeners. And boy oh boy can they ravage
         | boxwood hedges. Unfortunately, insecticides are the only
         | effective option in Europe and America. In Asia (where it's
         | native) there are some natural predators, so the damage is
         | limited. Birds aren't interested in the caterpillars. Some
         | types of hornets are, but introducing them into non-native
         | habitat brings other problems.
         | 
         | Hotter than normally springs and falls don't help either; the
         | moth thrives in the warmer weather and can go through as many
         | as four cycles (generations) during a single year.
         | 
         | https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/terrestrial/invertebrate...
         | 
         | https://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant-pests-diseases/box-tree-mot...
        
       | undebuggable wrote:
       | Moths are aliens in their looks and vast diversity. My backyard
       | favorite is hummingbird hawk-moth.
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | I saw those for the first time in 2022 and I was amazed that it
         | existed. What a strange creature. I thought it was actually a
         | hummingbird at first, and then its details emerged to me and I
         | realized what I was seeing. So strange. And huge, for a bug!
         | 
         | It was cruising around at dusk feeding on nectar.
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | I'm partial to the Death's-head Hawkmoth and the Ceanothus
         | Silkmoth.
        
         | somishere wrote:
         | I've heard of these, they sound amazing!
         | 
         | We get the odd Hercules moth in our backyard. Doesn't look
         | anything like a bird close up, but it's so massive that when
         | they get stuck in the house your first thought is that it's a
         | bird or bat.
         | 
         | Another cool thing we get is jumping spiders that imitate ants
         | so they can hunt them - both green ants (an endemic weaver ant
         | we get here) and another large metallic silver ant species I
         | don't know a lot about. The spiders share the colouring of each
         | species and walk backwards amongst them - their walking style
         | changes and the abdomen looks like the head of the ant. They're
         | rare, I've only observed them a couple of times over the years
         | here, but it's wild to watch them do their thing.
        
         | justincormack wrote:
         | they are great, but only seen them in my front yard, and
         | abroad.
        
       | Morizero wrote:
       | Here's his inaturalist profile:
       | https://www.inaturalist.org/users/256619
       | 
       | 19,715 observations of 3,892 species. Incredible contributor!
        
         | zendaven wrote:
         | Thanks! Wanted to see more pictures like these in the article.
        
         | Natsu wrote:
         | It's sad to me that the 'common' buckeye seems to be anything
         | but common these days, it's always been one of my favorites to
         | look at.
        
         | s0rce wrote:
         | Some of these are amazing
         | https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/233201888
        
       | thomasreggi wrote:
       | keep a little moth under my pillow for the "moth man"
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | his "yard" seems to be pretty huge
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Almost completely irrelevant, but I was astonished one day as I
       | walked through the outskirts of Dallas: there was a yard nearly
       | at eye level with a retaining wall, and the grass was overflowing
       | with snails.
       | 
       | I don't know how many times in my life I've actually seen a snail
       | outside of water, it's very rare for me, but this was effectively
       | an infestation. Surreal.
        
         | originalvichy wrote:
         | Funnily enough I have never seen a snail in water.
        
         | sangnoir wrote:
         | In many places in Texas, the soil can ruin foundations of
         | single-storey buildings if allowed to cycle between wet and
         | dry. To overcome this, watering the foundation is a requirement
         | to maintain a baseline soil humidity level. Snails thrive in
         | damp conditions.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Some snails join to aestivate.
         | 
         | They climb grasses to take advantage of the cooling effect of
         | the breeze, search protection on numbers and jail itselves on a
         | protective membrane to sleep during the hotter days.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | _> I don't know how many times in my life I've actually seen a
         | snail outside of water_
         | 
         | Probably depends a lot on where you live. I've lived in several
         | US states and climates and snails were fairly common in most of
         | them, of a variety of species.
         | 
         | I was visiting Irvine California once. I was working back from
         | work around sunset and on the sidewalk under a streetlight were
         | _hundreds_ of snails. I 've never seen them congregate like
         | that before.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | OT: it's amazing how fewer bugs, inspects, etc exist today than
       | when I was a kid.
       | 
       | I still have vivid memories of car trips and the windowshield &
       | the front of car - being completely covered with dead bugs.
       | 
       | I have to imagine all those bugs were food for moths.
        
         | DonaldFisk wrote:
         | I can remember this too. But moth larvae feed on plants and the
         | adults drink nectar from flowers. They don't eat other insects.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | It's only a Moth Man if he comes from the Point Pleasant region.
       | Otherwise it's just a weird entomologist.
        
       | aurizon wrote:
       | As a kid, in Toronto, I joined the Junior Field Naturalists in
       | 1951 and attended many lectures and exploration field trips. I
       | found it very informative, however I became a Chemist later on.
       | https://www.rom.on.ca/en/romrecollects/stories/keyword/junio...
        
       | nemo wrote:
       | [delayed]
        
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