[HN Gopher] One man's quest to restore the first-ever Air Force One
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       One man's quest to restore the first-ever Air Force One
        
       Author : rmason
       Score  : 237 points
       Date   : 2024-08-15 21:04 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | tocs3 wrote:
       | A beautiful plane.It is to bad they are not flown anymore. Glad
       | to see someone caring for a piece of history.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | Indeed beautiful. The article says it has a dolphin shaped
         | fuselage and I thought that looked so elegant. I wonder why
         | modern jets aren't shaped like that.
        
       | fitsumbelay wrote:
       | I'm just relieved this wasn't a post about sneakers but if it was
       | I hoped for the best. This is a topic I never really ever thought
       | about to be honest. If I were pressed to answer I'd assume the
       | first was FDR or Truman. The US presidency (and govt) gets really
       | weird and interesting right after WW2, this feels like an
       | artifact to that point. Shame I can't find any interior shots
       | online, I'm curious to see a photograph that matches the first
       | paragraph of the post ...
        
         | BadHumans wrote:
         | I really wanted this to be about the sneaker.
        
           | fitsumbelay wrote:
           | LOL, like I said if it were and it's on HN I would really
           | hope it has at least one interesting paragraph of content
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | You can step inside the first jet-powered Air Force One in the
       | Museum of Flight in Seattle. It's fully stocked, with meeting
       | rooms and communication equipment and all. My favorite part is
       | the fake temperature control:
       | 
       | > President Johnson was finicky about room temperature and when
       | he was VP and developed a habit of haranguing the flight crew
       | about lowering or raising the cabin temperature. After a while
       | the crew got tired of his shenanigans, so they installed a "fake"
       | temperature control in the Conference Room. This appeasement was
       | successful, and Johnson was so pleased with manipulating the
       | controls himself that he didn't even notice when the temperature
       | remained the same.
       | 
       | https://blog.museumofflight.org/quirks-of-the-first-jet-powe...
        
         | rtkwe wrote:
         | The Airforce Museum in Ohio also has a few different early Air
         | Force Ones including at least one you can walk through.
         | 
         | https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Pres...
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | I'm pretty there are two you can walk through. I only
           | remember because the smaller one was a really tight squeeze.
        
             | rtkwe wrote:
             | I remember two yeah I took a 360 cam through them and some
             | day I might chop it up and run it through some
             | photogrammetry to try to make a model of the insides.
        
             | dphidt wrote:
             | Ten total presidential aircraft and four you can walk
             | through at the Dayton USAF museum [1]! You can walk through
             | SAM 26000, the VC-137C used by 8 presidents including
             | Kennedy. Amazing collection.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-
             | Exhibits/Pres...
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | SAM 26000 must be one of the most historic aircraft in
               | the world - being the place Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn
               | in after the assassination of JFK:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-137C_SAM_26000
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | They also have a rather large space museum. Unfortunately
               | a lot it is filled with old rockets though.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Ronald Reagan Presidential Library has the last 707 model. Just
         | as an exhibit, and the hoops they had to jump through to
         | install the plane, are remarkable all in themselves.
        
           | mtsolitary wrote:
           | They also have a portrait of the Gipper made from his
           | favourite snack: Jelly Beans!
        
             | bcrosby95 wrote:
             | A friend used to work there. Everything anyone sent to
             | Reagan is in there somewhere.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | They'd have to get me a fake thermometer too.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | For anyone who hasn't been there, I'd highly recommend visiting
         | the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in general, not just for
         | the Air Force One, but for many other fascinating exhibits.
         | Great place for a very "Seattle" experience if you're not from
         | the Pacific Northwest, and historical info on Seattle as home
         | of Boeing.
        
         | usefulcat wrote:
         | Just like the temperature controls in some offices I've worked
         | in.
        
         | alexey-salmin wrote:
         | Oh wait, that's the "abominable shower" guy!
        
       | netsharc wrote:
       | It reads like it's the Airplane of Theseus...
        
         | ryanmcbride wrote:
         | That's pretty much the difference between restoration and
         | conservation.
         | 
         | It's not about conserving the original parts (though often
         | people restoring something will do that as much as possible)
         | it's about restoring it to what it would have looked like or
         | how it would have worked originally.
         | 
         | Both conservation and restoration are important parts of
         | appreciating history.
        
       | bankcust08385 wrote:
       | Yesterday, I learned most all outdated presidential limos are
       | destroyed and so aren't present in any museum.
        
         | w-m wrote:
         | Oh, really? I guess here goes my second presidential
         | transportation museum fact of this thread then: you can visit a
         | limousine used by Truman in the Little White House in Key West:
         | https://fla-keys.com/news/article/10941/key-west-visitors-ca...
         | 
         | To me it seemed just like any older car, not anything special.
         | Didn't realize they are destroying most of them.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | JFK's limo is still being displayed
           | 
           | https://www.grunge.com/827864/what-happened-to-the-car-
           | jfk-w...
        
             | sparky_z wrote:
             | Wow, I had no idea that they just repaired it and kept
             | using it as a presidential limo until 1977. That's wild!
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | Not sure why you are being downvoted so severely, as what you
         | say is plainly and verifiably true. JFK and Truman's old
         | jalopies being in museums do not count. They were lightly
         | modified production cars that were not much different than
         | their mass produced counterparts. The Beast is a custom made
         | tank with a Cadillac badge on it and weighs over 20,000 lbs.
         | JFK got shot in some old convertible, which probably did not
         | even have seatbelts. The security technology of those antiques
         | is to The Beast, as the power of a TRS-80 is to a spanky new
         | AMD Ryzen.
         | 
         | BTW, they are not just destroyed. They are destroyed in a
         | series of tests of the vehicle's countermeasures and protective
         | devices against an array of potential weapon systems, boom boom
         | kaboom. I got to see some components installed on the gun shock
         | test rig at NTS in Fullerton CA, while I was there doing some
         | unrelated vibration and shock testing on an aircraft system.
         | Unfortunately I did not get to see the kaboom.
        
         | sahaskatta wrote:
         | I recently visited the Henry Ford Musuem in Dearborn. Several
         | presidential limos were there:
         | 
         | "The Henry Ford's Presidential Vehicles exhibit traces the
         | changing balance between a president's need to be seen, and
         | need to be safe. Included in this exhibit are the horse-drawn
         | carriage used by Theodore Roosevelt and presidential parade
         | cars that transported Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman,
         | Dwight D. Eisenhower, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan
         | and George H.W. Bush. The most prominent vehicle is the 1961
         | Lincoln Continental Presidential Limousine that John F. Kennedy
         | was riding in when assassinated on November 22, 1963. The
         | vehicle was rebuilt and used regularly by Lyndon B. Johnson and
         | Richard Nixon."
         | 
         | https://www.thehenryford.org/visit/henry-ford-museum/exhibit...
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | There is one not even far from me:
         | https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g55649-d...
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Modern ones are basically SCIFs with wheels and an engine, so I
         | suppose that checks out.
         | 
         | It makes me wonder what would have happened with the first Air
         | Force One if not for a clerical error. I know older
         | presidential limos are still around, but that's because they
         | served more as a fashion accessory than as a security device.
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | For those of us not in-the-know about national intelligence
           | acronyms:
           | 
           | SCIF = Sensitive compartmented information facility
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | > SCIFs with wheels and an engine
           | 
           | Can the typical SCIF withstand RPGs and ATMs ? Asking for a
           | friend.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Weird, why? Unless they have James Bond gadgets built in that
         | they don't want the public to know about. But then, armored car
         | companies will happily advertise their builtin pepper spray
         | cloud dispensers.
        
       | h4x0rr wrote:
       | I thought it was the Nike shoes lol
        
         | k4rli wrote:
         | Reddit quality comments...
        
           | sdwr wrote:
           | This is the single worst HN comment thread I've seen in 5
           | years.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into
           | Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
           | 
           | 2007 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13852 2007
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=60767 2007
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=60767 2007
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=66057 2008
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=289254 2008
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=253657 2009
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=582513 2009
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=633099
        
         | kurisufag wrote:
         | I did as well. I suppose to make this `Hacker News Quality', we
         | should spin it into some kind of missive about classism?
        
       | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
       | Is the intention to keep it flying for VIP tours? Why not just
       | focus on the cosmetics instead of the costly real maintenance
       | work? When I see a museum WW2 or older vehicle, I assume the
       | thing can no longer run.
        
         | teruakohatu wrote:
         | There is a museum near me that does the required maintenance on
         | some of the planes they have to keep them in theoretical
         | working condition. I like that I am looking at "real" planes,
         | not just empty shells with the guts ripped out or decayed.
         | Maybe one day they will actually be flown.
         | 
         | Much easier to restore fully in the future if they are
         | maintained now.
        
         | miketery wrote:
         | There's a difference between not flyable, flyable but not
         | certified, fly able and certified. Each step is a big cost
         | difference. But many hobbyist can get from one to two depending
         | on the tech used.
         | 
         | If I recall correctly there's a guy putting Honda engines
         | inside Cessnas making them much cheaper. But they are not
         | certifiable.
        
           | buildsjets wrote:
           | I've done business case studies where we can't even make a
           | profitable case to re-engine a Cessna (150) with a newer
           | technology, but already certified aircraft engine, due to the
           | costs involved in the required flight testing, such is the
           | cost burden of certification.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | Isn't that intentional?
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | I don't think it's really intentional. Most of the
               | aviation industry would love to get rid of the burden
               | that is leaded avgas. Not to mention the
               | environmentalists, health departments etc.
               | 
               | The problem is just that the rules for larger aircraft
               | apply to general aviation too. And the margins there
               | aren't high enough to pay for all the certification. So
               | we're stuck with 1950s tech which would never pass
               | certification today but did at one time in history. It's
               | weird how regulations supposedly intended to make things
               | better are holding us back and stopping innovation to
               | make things safer, more sustainable and efficient.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | The article says they want to take it to air shows, where
         | presumably it will need to be airworthy. But yeah, I would hope
         | they plan to do more with it than that...
         | 
         | I don't think they should try to turn this into a profit-
         | seeking enterprise, but with the cost of the restoration
         | probably pushing $20M (enough to buy a brand-new, modern jet of
         | similar size, I'd bet), it might be nice to recoup some of
         | that.
        
           | j33zusjuice wrote:
           | $20M is not even close to the cost of a _new_ jet. Jets are
           | insanely expensive.
           | 
           | Idk whether jets are best measured by dimensions or capacity,
           | but a jet with a similar wingspan is a 737-800, and those
           | cost like $106,000,000. If we're going by capacity (I'm using
           | seating-capacity because it's easier to find than volume
           | measurements), a G550 sits up to 19 (depending on the
           | configuration: most rentals I saw list up to 16 passengers),
           | and retails at $62,000,000. You can get them used for around
           | $20M.
        
       | darzu wrote:
       | Damn, I wish they had filmed this restoration and put it all on
       | YouTube, that would have been an incredible channel. Like Tally
       | Ho[0] but for a plane.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.youtube.com/@SampsonBoatCo
        
         | ricktdotorg wrote:
         | feel i should push Kermit Weeks' channel[0] because he is the
         | GOAT when it comes to documenting vintage airplane restoration
         | on Youtube
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOC84qwgDHkUPwfeLKL40tQ
        
       | seabass-labrax wrote:
       | I love this aircraft! It was an amazingly advanced aircraft for
       | its time, which is perhaps not surprising when one discovers that
       | no other than Howard Hughes' TWA funded its development.
       | 
       | I can highly recommend the book by Ken Wixey (ISBN
       | 978-0752417660) for a history of both the military and civilian
       | variants; it starts with the Lockheed company's beginnings after
       | the Great War and goes all the way to the Lockheed Starliner (the
       | final variant of the Constellation). Suffice it to say that the
       | model was significantly more reliable than a certain other
       | vehicle with the same name!
       | 
       | Also, there's a Super Constellation that you can fly in the
       | FlightGear simulator[1], which is remarkably accurate (and, dare
       | I say, a big challenge to fly).
       | 
       | [1]: https://wiki.flightgear.org/Lockheed_Constellation
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | What a beauty!
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | You would think the Smithsonian would want it. Glad someone is
       | trying to get it restored.
        
         | fitsumbelay wrote:
         | very true. strange.
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Maybe it has to do with differences in approach? It's basically
         | a Plane of Theseus now, by the sound of it. I imagine that the
         | Smithsonian would care more about "original" than "looks/works
         | the way it did in its own time."
        
       | fsckboy wrote:
       | ok, I understand what planes we're talking about here, and
       | they're interesting, but I do think there's room for the
       | obligatory:
       | 
       | "the call sign 'Air Force One' is not for any particular plane,
       | it's the air traffic control sign for any Air Force plane the US
       | President is flying on."
        
         | ianburrell wrote:
         | Air Force One also refers to the primary presidential aircraft.
         | Words can mean multiple things, and can get attached to
         | adjacent things.
         | 
         | It helps that US has been using the same two VC-25 since 1990.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | I acknowledged what Air Force One was referring to in this
           | discussion and in the article, did you miss that? then I
           | added some information.
           | 
           | now I'll add some more, both from wikipedia:
           | 
           | Marine One is the call sign of any United States Marine Corps
           | aircraft carrying the president of the United States. It
           | usually denotes a helicopter operated by Marine Helicopter
           | Squadron One "Nighthawks", consisting of either the large
           | Sikorsky VH-3D Sea King or the newer, smaller VH-60N "White
           | Hawk"
           | 
           | Air Force Two is the air traffic control designated call sign
           | held by any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the
           | vice president of the United States, but not the president.
           | The term is often associated with the Boeing C-32, a modified
           | 757 which is most commonly used as the vice president's
           | transport.
           | 
           | I always try to add information or clarification, knowledge
           | is power.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | I get what you were going for here, but I think to some it
             | might have come across as unimportant pedantry.
             | 
             | Perhaps phrasing your initial comment as "Fun fact: the
             | call sign..." would have been better received? I dunno,
             | people are fickle sometimes.
        
             | j33zusjuice wrote:
             | You acknowledged that we were discussing specific planes,
             | but did not acknowledge the use of "Air Force One" as valid
             | for discussing a specific aircraft (as shorthand for, "the
             | plane most commonly used for presidential flights, and
             | therefore, most commonly assigned the call-sign 'Air Force
             | One'"). Maybe that's what you intended to do, but that is
             | not clear in your original phrasing, which, to me, seemed
             | more like a correction than an addition.
             | 
             | Also, to note: I'm not trying to argue any points you're
             | making. I'm only trying to help clarify how you were
             | misunderstood.
        
       | irjustin wrote:
       | Separately the website won't load images if you're using an ad
       | block. Sigh...
        
         | mkl wrote:
         | Worked fine for me with uBlock Origin.
        
       | supportengineer wrote:
       | How is there this much money in Bridgewater, VA, which is
       | apparently a college town near JMU?
        
       | auselen wrote:
       | Isn't this like a case of "Ship of Theseus"?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
        
         | Lorkki wrote:
         | I guess in the same sense that every functional aircraft is.
         | Taking everything apart and putting it back together, replacing
         | worn out parts, is considered normal maintenance.
        
       | sailfast wrote:
       | This is cool! I do wonder why they didn't work with the National
       | Museum of the Air Force on this that has a hangar full of them
       | (including Roosevelt's) and could have helped with the costs.
        
         | ansible wrote:
         | The museum has "Columbine III" (a slightly newer Super
         | Constellation), which was also used by Eisenhower. It was
         | delivered to them soon after it was retired in 1966.
         | 
         | https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact...
         | 
         | I saw this plane decades ago when it was in an auxiliary
         | hanger, before being moved to its present location. It was in
         | decent shape then (you were allowed to walk through it), and
         | hasn't spent decades sitting outside.
         | 
         | Obviously, Columbine III is not in flyable condition, and will
         | likely never fly again.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-16 23:01 UTC)