[HN Gopher] A Scottish Provenance for the Altar Stone of Stonehenge
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       A Scottish Provenance for the Altar Stone of Stonehenge
        
       Author : gnabgib
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2024-08-14 17:01 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | defrost wrote:
       | Further discussion:
       | 
       |  _Stonehenge's 'altar stone' not originally from Wales: Western
       | Australian -led research_                   New research led by
       | Western Australia's Curtin University has revealed Stonehenge's
       | monumental six-tonne Altar Stone, long believed to originate from
       | Wales, actually hails from Scotland.              The findings
       | point to unexpectedly advanced transport methods and social
       | organisation at the time of the stone's arrival at its current
       | location in southern England, about 5000 years ago.
       | Curtin researchers studied mineral grains within fragments of the
       | sandstone block, which measures five by one metres and is 50
       | centimetres thick, at the centre of Stonehenge's stone circle in
       | Wiltshire.              Lead author, PhD student Anthony Clarke
       | from Curtin's School of Earth and Planetary Sciences, said
       | analysis matched these with rocks from northeast Scotland, and
       | clearly differentiated them from Welsh bedrock.
       | 
       | ~ https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/stoneh...
       | 
       |  _Nature_ journal video:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HerAs9RRA34
        
       | VyseofArcadia wrote:
       | We forget sometimes that the builders of ancient structures were
       | also anatomically modern humans, every bit as clever and complex
       | as us. We should be surprised if there weren't the kind of
       | transport methods and trade networks to support this.
        
         | alserio wrote:
         | I'm not surprised that they could, I'm more surprised that they
         | wanted to.
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | What else was there to do? There was no Internet, no
           | television, no football (perhaps), no books, no broadcast
           | radio.
           | 
           | I'm only half joking.
        
             | alserio wrote:
             | Maybe someone was "visiting" Scotland, and decided that it
             | would look good in their backyard
        
               | deepsun wrote:
               | Yea, ancients had a certain taste for decorations.
               | 
               | For example in Assyria, to get an audience with their
               | king Ashurbanipal, I believe, one had to go through a
               | corridor full of heads of king's defeated enemies.
               | 
               | We often forget how violent past was. It was extremely
               | hard to live to adulthood without killing anyone.
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | See also: Stone of Scone.
        
             | alserio wrote:
             | Fascinating but also a lot more portable
        
         | tialaramex wrote:
         | Although humans from this period are anatomically the same as
         | us, their culture isn't much like ours and the things you're
         | talking about are a matter of culture.
        
           | VyseofArcadia wrote:
           | The specifics are a matter of culture, but every civilization
           | has transportation and trade. That's universal.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | The rock formation identified is at the surface throughout the
         | Orkney Islands. The River Avon seems to be at least close to
         | navigable by a barge carrying a 5m long stone, requiring less
         | than a mile of transport across land to Stonehenge. So it
         | doesn't seem to require extremely implausible means to get it
         | there. As to why -- perhaps the Stonehenge civilization came
         | from Orkney originally, bringing their sacred stone with them?
         | Or perhaps Orkney was a sort of Rivendell back then -- it's
         | easier to defend as an isolated island group. You might go get
         | a big stone from the monks there to establish the authenticity
         | of your satellite colony.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | I wonder what the Avon looked like back then?
           | 
           | The waters down the west coast can be a little hairy. I asked
           | Claude to analyze the paper and speculate a route and it
           | thought the east coast route, then up the Thames and down the
           | Avon was more likely?
           | 
           | "Modern oceanographic knowledge tells us that the Irish Sea
           | can be challenging due to strong currents, frequent storms,
           | and numerous shoals and sandbanks. These conditions were
           | likely present in Neolithic times as well." (Claude)
        
         | trhway wrote:
         | >every bit as clever and complex as us
         | 
         | 5000 years is a long time for adaptational/behavioral selection
         | in the comparatively - compare to other large mammals - dense
         | society. During the well observable last couple centuries we
         | see significant changes in the average human height,
         | aggressiveness and testosterone production, socials skills,
         | even IQ level noticeably drifts over just few generations being
         | the subject of economical and societal mass-selection process.
         | You can't just dismiss the selective effect of mass culling
         | events like wars, revolutions, Inquisition and similar societal
         | level massive behavioral-based selection processes adjusting
         | the society for specific traits (for example Russian revolution
         | killed several millions most educated people, and later Stalin
         | "adjusted" the society by killing several millions of people
         | who tended to be less-conformists), executing over the
         | centuries or later putting in prison significant number of
         | people with specific social/behavioral traits, etc.
        
       | shsbdncudx wrote:
       | In Orkney (north east Scotland) they have the sanding stones of
       | Stennes. Not nearly as impressive as Stonehenge but also not
       | surprising there's some connection.
        
         | stoneman24 wrote:
         | As a bit of a fan of Orkney (a family connection), I will point
         | out that there are many attractions for archaeologists in
         | Orkney. Some sites are dating before Stonehenge circle or at
         | least similar timeframes, I wonder if the central Scottish
         | stone at Stonehenge is an attempt to transfer the magic from
         | Orkney (a biased view INAA)
         | 
         | We have the Standing Stones of Stenness (as mentioned), the
         | Ring of Brodgar, the chambered cairn at Maeshowe, the Barnhouse
         | Settlement and the Ring of Bookan. Also we have The Neolithic
         | village at Skara Brae (The site was occupied from roughly 3180
         | BC to about 2500 BC and is Europe's most complete Neolithic
         | village).
         | 
         | The archaeological dig at the Ness of Brodgar is closing soon
         | after 20 years of work, to preserve the rest for future
         | archaeologists. I think we have enough samples to keep the
         | researchers happy for a long time.
         | 
         | If going then pack warm clothes as Orkney is very windy and
         | frequently wet. To paraphrase Billy Connolly "Orkney is
         | definitely windswept and interesting"
        
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