[HN Gopher] Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about E. Coli (2008)
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       Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about E. Coli (2008)
        
       Author : angrygoat
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2024-08-12 13:00 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | The article touches on the versatility of E. coli, but doesn't
       | explicitly mention the extreme diversity within what we call E.
       | coli.
       | 
       | Even just within the subset of E. coli which causes UTI's, 25-40%
       | of the genome varied between strains.
       | (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5653229/)
       | 
       | This diversity wasn't really appreciated in 2008 when many E.
       | coli genomes hadn't been sequenced yet.
        
         | lysozyme wrote:
         | Good point! And a related topic, we call the organism that
         | lives happily in our gut _E. coli_ and we also call the
         | organisms that cause disease the same name. What's the
         | difference?
         | 
         | It turns out that the _Escherichia coli_ (to spell out its
         | Latin binomial) that cause disease are in some sense "diseased"
         | themselves: the genes that enable them to be pathogenic, or
         | make them pathogenic, I should say, are originally from a
         | phage, a type of virus that infects bacteria [1]. In a manner
         | that is not the same as, but conceptually similar to how HIV
         | inserts its genes into the human's genome, phages insert their
         | genes (termed the "prophage") into the bacterial genome.
         | 
         | In addition, most strains of pathogenic _Escherichia_ are also
         | holding on to an entirely separate, small, circular "genome"
         | called a plasmid, also of exogenous origin, that contains
         | additional genes that make them pathogenic.
         | 
         | So in addition to wide genome variation within the "species"
         | (which is not really the same thing for bacteria as for
         | mammals, mind you) of _Escherichia coli_ , many subtypes have
         | additional genetic material from endogenous sources that
         | substantially changes their observed characteristics
         | (phenotype).
         | 
         | 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli_O157:H7
        
           | thelaxiankey wrote:
           | Also happen to be in microbiology, but pretty far from the
           | medical side of things.
           | 
           | Do you have a citation on the fact that 'most' pathogenic
           | strains have a plasmid making them so? Some guys in our lab
           | have been playing around with plasmid copy number lately (in
           | a largely 'basic science' kind of way) -- this could give
           | some nice context for that work.
        
       | koeng wrote:
       | I use E.coli on a pretty daily basis for cloning. It's alright,
       | and there is so much work that has gone into it as a chassis
       | organism, but overall there are definitely better organisms out
       | there if we just took the time to figure them out (Vibrio
       | natriegens and Bacillus subtilis are two examples).
       | 
       | We absolutely do not have a clear idea of how E.coli works. Hell,
       | we don't even know how almost 1/3 of the genes work on JCVI-Syn3a
       | works, a minimal genome we synthetically created. Far fewer in
       | E.coli.
        
         | pazimzadeh wrote:
         | Better how? Cloning strains are particularly boring...what are
         | you expecting to happen?
        
           | koeng wrote:
           | I'm expecting that it should grow 2x the speed, sporulate if
           | needed, have natural competence systems for large
           | modifications / genome engineering (lambda red aint there),
           | have some environmental resistances that are uncommon in
           | typical contaminants, have better protein secretion directly
           | out of cloning strain, hell just an expression AND cloning
           | strain, better stability in typical strains that dont require
           | STBLE or whatever, better positive and negative selection
           | markers, Vitamin B1 synthesis pathway for minimal medias,
           | E115K fix in purB for DH5alpha so that they don't grow like
           | crap on M9, the list just goes on.
        
             | pazimzadeh wrote:
             | What is the doubling time for the E. coli you are working
             | with?
             | 
             | E. coli will never form a spore (unless you engineer that
             | somehow?), why would you want E. coli to sporulate? Some of
             | the things you mention can be done by clinical strains.
             | Couldn't you just make the E115K purB mutation if you want
             | that? I agree that lambda red is limited.
        
               | koeng wrote:
               | Normal E.coli doubling time, which means about half the
               | speed of Vibrio natriegens. I use NEB turbos sometimes,
               | but they still don't bring down the liquid culture time
               | down from overnight to within a day, mostly.
               | 
               | I would want E.coli to sporulate because then shipping
               | and distribution of strains is a lot easier. This was a
               | problem back when I was shipping at FreeGenes and still
               | is a problem. I used Bacillus subtilis to make the
               | sporenet protocol which worked, but the vector backbone
               | switching was pretty painful.
               | 
               | Clinical strains == not necessarily GRAS. Also, they're
               | clinical, so regulated by MTAs, which are a big no-no.
               | 
               | I could make the E11K purB mutation, but why would I go
               | through the effort in an inferior species of bacteria
               | when I can invest my time into something like Vibrio
               | natriegens? The payoff is better at the end.
        
               | pazimzadeh wrote:
               | If all you're interested is cloning/expression, then I
               | guess that makes sense, although I've not heard anyone
               | complain that 20 min is a slow doubling time. can't you
               | just inoculate your starting culture with a larger amount
               | or something? I often find myself starting cultures late
               | in the day so that they don't overgrow the next day
               | (although I am not doing expression work).
               | 
               | Vibrio natriegens seems great for your purposes. I'm
               | curious if there is a tradeoff to its super fast growth.
               | Does it have a greater mutation rate?
        
       | mncharity wrote:
       | _Many_ numbers for E. coli:
       | https://bionumbers.hms.harvard.edu/search.aspx?trm=coli
        
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