[HN Gopher] A different kind of keyboard (2021)
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       A different kind of keyboard (2021)
        
       Author : kblissett
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2024-08-14 15:30 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ianthehenry.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ianthehenry.com)
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | Would love to see a video of them typing on it at 10wpm! That's
       | seems decent for a phone.
        
         | chipdart wrote:
         | I think that smartphones with full keyboard and auto
         | complete/autocorrect get you faster than 10wpm. Even the old
         | number pad phones would beat that in the hands of your average
         | 90s teenager.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | At least I know keyboard mistakes are my own fault.
           | Smartphone "corrections" have a 30% chance of altering the
           | intention of my words.
           | 
           | (Amusingly, typing this on my phone, Apple corrected
           | "mistakes are my own" to "mistakes are not")
        
             | laweijfmvo wrote:
             | I have a iPhone 13 Mini and generally just smash all over
             | the place. I turned auto correct off and spell check on,
             | because that seemed like the best method for me to just
             | mash through my sentence and manually select the
             | autocorrect/spell check option I want.
        
         | ggambetta wrote:
         | That doesn't sound decent to me, haven't measured but I'm sure
         | I can swipe a lot faster than that on a phone.
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | Er, what? Without even trying hard I get (according to the
         | typing.com 1 minute test) 58 wpm on my phone - and that's
         | without using swiping or autocompletion.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | People could hit that speed on old numberpad based phones. On
         | any decently modern smartphone with swipe IME enabled it's
         | pretty trivial to hit 30-40 WPM.
        
       | rgreekguy wrote:
       | I don't have the links handy now to make an effortpost, but there
       | seem to be more than a handful of open source (and not only?)
       | projects for such keyboards. Not all with 8 keys, but chording
       | and one hand is the focus.
       | 
       | You can work with something like this with a numpad, there are a
       | few QMK numpads out there now, I believe the cheapest is ~50-60$.
       | 
       | Now, for one-handed keyboards: they are all super expensive, but
       | intriguing stuff, for sure. Of the top of my head: Mattias half-
       | keyboard, Tipy, the good old Maltron, some odd keyboard in a
       | normal format, but with a circular layout that I don't remember
       | the name of, and Frogpad (or something) that seems to have a
       | dodgy fame, if it is still being sold at all. I believe these are
       | all the commercial ones.
       | 
       | On custom keyboards, again, some split keyboards have a
       | controller on both halves of the keyboard, so you can use them
       | standalone. You can go to town and make your own layout there.
       | 
       | Although I am doing some research on that these days(-ish), I
       | have no links handy because I am not interested in chording, and
       | the commercial ones are expensive. And I am sloppy, and I
       | remember some stuff...
       | 
       | Edit: QMK has some "one-handed mode" thingy nowadays, I have not
       | looked into it at all.
        
       | eimrine wrote:
       | Why not to split keyboard into 2 pieces and place it on the back
       | of the smartphone in order to make possible touchtyping with 8
       | fingers?
        
         | jerf wrote:
         | Your fingers are doing double-duty pushing buttons and yet also
         | holding the phone/keyboard combo without pushing buttons. Even
         | this design has that problem to some extent and it's got a lot
         | more room to hold the phone.
         | 
         | 6 fingers might work. I'm holding my phone in landscape here
         | with my thumb and pinky. I've got three fingers in the back on
         | each side I could use. I think I could just about get two
         | layers of buttons in for each finger without too much
         | discomfort, but my ring fingers aren't too happy about shifting
         | down to try to reach a fourth there. (And while every other
         | aspect of the skillset has long since decayed, I did play piano
         | for many years and I still retain those basic muscle skills; if
         | mine are complaining there's a lot of people who straight up
         | won't be able to do it.)
         | 
         | 12 still leaves you with chording or arpeggiating or something
         | very, very non-standard, though.
         | 
         | I don't think you could hold it like that for very long. Just
         | in the time it took me to type out my brief experiences on my
         | real physical keyboard afterwards my pinkies are already
         | tingling just a touch. Not a good sign.
         | 
         | An interesting experiment to see if the back of the phone is
         | useful for anything, though. Certainly worth some more thought
         | and experimentation. Phones would be _so_ much more useful if
         | they had something like keyboard speeds available in our
         | pockets.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | This is one of the many[1] reminders that a lot of people want a
       | smartphone with a hardware keyboard.
       | 
       | Personally I have a small bluetooth mechanical keyboard, it saved
       | me a couple of times when I wanted to do heavy text editing and
       | only had a smartphone with me.
       | 
       | I would welcome another option - small like this one - for casual
       | texting and gaming.
       | 
       | [1]: 900+ votes for a keyboard case here earlier:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38871987
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | The traditional tiny keyboard is optimized for ease of
         | onboarding, but it sucks to actually type on with any speed.
         | The thing posted has a steeper learning curve, but can be used
         | to type quickly and without even having to glance at the actual
         | keyboard. You can keep it at the back of your phone, or in the
         | pocket of your coat, or have it mounted on the handlebars of
         | your bike. (Actually you can have all three, connecting via
         | Bluetooth.)
         | 
         | AFAIK this is the kind of keyboard military pilots use to
         | quickly type things; you don't have _room_ for a QWERTY
         | keyboard in a jet fighter cockpit.
         | 
         | What I badly miss on the example layout is navigation and
         | manipulation keys. Semicolon + D and semicolon + K have ample
         | room to put there left and right arrows, ctrl + left and right
         | arrows (word navigation), home, end. Somewhere else should be
         | select mode (maybe while holding A), so that the arrows had the
         | shift modifier (selecting) and copy and paste commands (sending
         | ctrl+C and ctrl+V).
         | 
         | OTOH navigation and editing is a separate enough activity to
         | warrant traditional layer switching aka modal editing.
        
         | y04nn wrote:
         | The only portable keyboard that I enjoyed using is the Think
         | Outside keyboard [1]. It is a great compromise between
         | portability and usability. But a lot of shortcuts are not
         | working on moderne devices. It even works as a stand for the
         | phone. But it uses 2 AAA batteries. I wonder if it would be
         | possible to flash it to work with modern devices or even
         | better, customize it.
         | 
         | [1] https://jsyang.ca/hardware/think-outside-bluetooth-
         | folding-k...
        
           | seltzered_ wrote:
           | There's been some similar setup examples on the
           | ergomobilecomputers subreddit - never indexed phone-specific
           | setups but here's a rough search: https://www.reddit.com/r/Er
           | goMobileComputers/search/?q=phone...
           | 
           | Theres currently a design contest for a pocket keyboard:
           | https://chrischrislolo.github.io/orthoLabLogs/pocket-
           | keyboar...
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | I think the concept of not wanting to use touch keyboards on a
         | smartphone is wildy more popular than actually wanting a
         | hardware keyboard on your smartphone. I.e. 900 upvotes is
         | probably more to say people dislike where they have to settle
         | more than many liking the idea (and practice) of actually
         | changing their choice of compromises. It'd be so frickin'
         | convenient but, at the same time, so is basically any other
         | concept that would take up a ton more of your pocket/hand
         | space.
         | 
         | On that front I'm surprised Clicks doesn't have any options at
         | all to have it double as an extra external battery. The size of
         | the external battery case market is probably 50x+ the volume of
         | the external keyboard market and that'd be a pretty unique
         | differentiator in that segment. It's even something they
         | responded to in their FAQ.
        
       | mzs wrote:
       | Wow home row plus space with A being a modifier and " RETURN plus
       | ENTER, TAB, CAPLOCK/CTRL, and SHIFT might actually be amazing
       | with a typical US layout keyboard with numpad. ESC could be A;
        
         | jhardy54 wrote:
         | In case it isn't already on your radar:
         | https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods
        
       | autumn-antlers wrote:
       | love seeing this resurface, am working on something similar
       | myself -- it'll be like running Taipo on the Fulcrum, with
       | influence from Ikcelaks "Word Builder" serial-steno system (in
       | case anyone wants terms to research :p)
       | 
       | i'll try to polish a write-up when i finish, but really need to
       | focus on finishing first >u<
        
       | Carrok wrote:
       | Back when iPhone jailbreaks were common, I installed a morse code
       | keyboard, the whole keyboard had just two buttons. Dit on the
       | left, dah on the right. My motivation for doing so was being able
       | to type out a message with my phone in my pocket or otherwise not
       | looking at the screen.
       | 
       | This looks like a much more realistic way to achieve the same
       | goal. Interesting, if it wasn't so large I might even be tempted
       | to try it out.
        
         | mk_stjames wrote:
         | Look up 2-key macro programmable keyboards, and maybe replacing
         | the switches with low-profile ones, and you're good to go.
         | 
         | Something like https://www.tindie.com/products/anavi/anavi-
         | macro-pad-2/
        
         | robertlutece wrote:
         | Google keyboard for iOS has a morse option
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | This reminds me of a story I read about pre-iphone where a
         | morse code operator was faster than a text message
         | https://www.engadget.com/2005-05-06-morse-code-trumps-sms-in...
        
       | mk_stjames wrote:
       | When he wrote 'arpeggiator', I was thinking this was going to go
       | in another direction- holding down a single key that starts at a
       | letter and then releasing the key as it reaches the letter you
       | want. Because when I think an arpeggiator on a synthesizer, it's
       | done via holding a key while notes repeat.
       | 
       | I always was very good at texting on a number-pad phone, via
       | repeated presses- pressing (4) two times for a "H", pressing (3)
       | two times for an "E", pressing (5) three times for an "L", etc
       | etc. I was so used to this that I didn't even progress to using
       | T9 texting before blackberrys and smartphones took over.
       | 
       | So I thought... taking that idea, and doing a press-and-hold
       | while letters scroll by, could be pretty fast. And you could dial
       | up the repeat rate until you started making mistakes. Map 8 keys
       | for letters, one key for a space bar and long-press for extras,
       | one key for backspace and long press for extras, and I think
       | you'd be able to hit much more than 10 w.p.m. that the author
       | winds up hitting.
       | 
       | Only problem: this can't be instantiated as a normal USB
       | compliant keyboard and allow you to see the letters scrolling as
       | you hold, without a specialty keyboard app for the phone.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | > When he wrote 'arpeggiator'
         | 
         | Note that the text only mentions arpeggio[1], not
         | arpeggiator[2].
         | 
         | > when I think an arpeggiator on a synthesizer
         | 
         | Playing an arpeggio[1] on a guitar or a piano means hitting the
         | keys or plucking the strings in a quick succession - just like
         | entering key combinations on this keyboard.
         | 
         | And yes, an arpeggiator keyboard sounds like an interesting
         | concept too.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpeggio
         | 
         | [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer#Arpeggiators
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | I've thought that something like this would be good for
         | inputing text with controllers. with an onscreen keyboard
         | moving your thumbsticks around seems like it would be faster in
         | the long run than trying to use an onscreen qwerty keyboard.
        
         | uxamanda wrote:
         | This app is not exactly your idea but it is along the same
         | lines. You "drive" towards the letter you want by shifting your
         | finger. It is the most interesting text input I've ever seen
         | and have always thought it would be cool with some sort of
         | joystick input.
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dasher-mobile/id1304772617
         | 
         | Edit: this link has a video:
         | https://acecentre.org.uk/project/dasher-for-ios/
        
           | willwade wrote:
           | Ha! That's me! If anyone wants to help dasher dev please get
           | in touch. We need $$$ or some good c coders willing to spend
           | a couple of months working on it all. It's good. It's the
           | fastest text interface for eyegaze, head mouse or "continuous
           | gesture". We need it desperately for those who can't speak
        
             | uxamanda wrote:
             | Woah, nice! I am definitely not a c coder, but I'm a UX
             | designer. I've thought this project was cool for years and
             | would be interested in helping out if my skills are ever of
             | any use.
        
       | kaz-inc wrote:
       | I believe there is an accessibility setting for the visually
       | impaired that puts a 4x2 grid of pressable squares on the phone
       | screen, and users flip their phone and use it in portrait mode.
       | This might be iPhone only? I remember in the video for this that
       | iPhone accessibility was much better.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Discussed at the time:
       | 
       |  _A different kind of keyboard_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28611632 - Sept 2021 (147
       | comments)
        
       | BobbyTables2 wrote:
       | I love the idea of a compact corded keyboard.
       | 
       | In practice, they seem like a recipe for sudden onset of RSI.
       | 
       | Remap Carl-B as the tmux hotkey and do it single handedly --
       | permanent RSI (trigger finger) in two weeks!
        
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