[HN Gopher] Self-driving Waymo cars keep SF residents awake all ...
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       Self-driving Waymo cars keep SF residents awake all night by
       honking
        
       Author : yabones
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2024-08-13 19:55 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | dolleik wrote:
       | If two self-driving cars want to flip each other off, maybe they
       | should do it over radio waves?
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | They'll need public opinion to weigh in and break a tie.
         | 
         | I was just thinking that the US now has a futuristic dystopian
         | city, not just Japan in anime.
         | 
         | It's a bit silly though, "how did we end up here?" in an
         | Idiocracy way.
        
       | shepardrtc wrote:
       | Do the cars actually listen for the honks?
        
         | RIMR wrote:
         | I am sure they have some sort of honk detection, but I think
         | the key issue here is that they don't recognize other Waymo
         | cars, and honk at each other any time they get into a standoff,
         | which is common in their parking lots.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Pretty sure the honks are meant at human drivers. I guess what
         | must be happening is that when navigating a parking lot and
         | seeing another car that it thinks may be in its way or not
         | aware of it, it honks to make its presence known.
         | 
         | This is generally a good idea when interacting with human
         | drivers and in the outside world where the probability of
         | encountering another self-driving car in such a situation is
         | extremely low. It only breaks in this specific edge-case where
         | there's seemingly nothing but self-driving cars in the entire
         | lot.
         | 
         | It's actually quite a difficult problem to solve. The honk
         | reflex is there for safety - if something that might be a car
         | (based on limited/occluded camera & sensor data) you want to
         | honk just in case, as early as possible. Waiting for the
         | presumed car to get into better view so you can identify it is
         | dangerous as it will delay the honk reaction to a time where it
         | might be too late.
         | 
         | The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need to
         | communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and then be
         | able to predict their upcoming position in the visual/radar
         | field very precisely, so that as soon as it comes into view you
         | need to be able to confidently say that this is indeed another
         | Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now unnecessary) honk reaction.
         | This needs to be very precise as you wouldn't want to
         | accidentally inhibit it in case a human driver (or just
         | cyclist/pedestrian) also happens to be there and broadly
         | matches the location/angle you expect your other Waymo car to
         | be at.
        
           | johntb86 wrote:
           | From looking at a longer video, it seems like a car honks
           | when the car in front of it backs up.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >The only way I see to solve that is that all the cars need
           | to communicate and be aware of each other in 3D space, and
           | then be able to predict their upcoming position in the
           | visual/radar field very precisely, so that as soon as it
           | comes into view you need to be able to confidently say that
           | this is indeed another Waymo car and thus inhibit the (now
           | unnecessary) honk reaction.
           | 
           | I honestly can't believe that's not already part of the
           | feature set.
        
       | phs318u wrote:
       | Sounds like something Douglas Adams would've dreamt up.
        
         | theGnuMe wrote:
         | It's in the guide already.
         | 
         | A Cacophonic symphony:
         | 
         | 42 the number of honks per minute amongst self driving cars.
         | 
         | The AGI trained the self driving AI to recognize all sorts of
         | objects and obstacles but not themselves. Perhaps to not be
         | defeated by their reflection in the mirror. That old parable
         | learnt from the tale oft repeated about a dog and the bone.
         | Best to honk, defense in depth. geese honk in flight. Should
         | work for cars too. Or perhaps the AGI generalized too far from
         | the nursery rhyme: Hear a honk, there a honk, everywhere a honk
         | honk... after all these AIs are multi modal.
        
       | JumpCrisscross wrote:
       | This is hilarious and I too would be furious if I lived there.
       | But dear god isn't it also somewhat adorable if you allow
       | yourself to anthropomorphise.
       | 
       | (EDIT: They're the ducks from Rick & Morty [1].)
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZYyeNiGQJc
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | First YT video for me where I have to sign in because it may
         | not be appropriate for my age...
        
       | willio58 wrote:
       | It's funny to think about how they've kind of figured out self-
       | driving (something many said would be impossible for decades) but
       | they haven't figured out parking in their own lots without the
       | self-driving cars honking at each other.
       | 
       | As a dev, I experience this sort of thing daily with bugs popping
       | up. But I work on websites. It's just another ball game when
       | we're talking about cars keeping people awake.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | Original source: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-
       | francisco/san-fran...
        
       | thedman9052 wrote:
       | Hypothetically, if a situation like this were happening where
       | self driving cars are causing a disruption in a particular area,
       | could someone place traffic cones around the cars to prevent them
       | from moving (and in the case in the article they'd presumably
       | stop honking)?
        
       | Terr_ wrote:
       | This is a nice low-stakes example of how we can't expect
       | automated driving to just be "like people but with better
       | attention spans and reaction times and no risky stuff."
       | 
       | There will be things that are alien to human expectations, novel
       | problems, and differently shaped risk profiles.
       | 
       | [Comment recycled from older submission]
        
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