[HN Gopher] Google Pixel 9 Pro
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google Pixel 9 Pro
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 341 points
       Date   : 2024-08-13 17:08 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (store.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (store.google.com)
        
       | throw0101b wrote:
       | What's the policy on the length of security updates on recent
       | Google-branded phones these days?
        
         | MostlyStable wrote:
         | 7 years, until 2031[0]
         | 
         | [0]https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=
         | ...
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | "Pixel 9, Pixel 9 Pro, and Pixel 9 Pro XL will receive updates
         | for 7 years from when the device first became available on the
         | Google Store in the US. See g.co/pixel/updates for more
         | information."
        
         | idle_zealot wrote:
         | 7 years for the 8 (of full OS updates). I'd be surprised if
         | it's less for the 9.
         | 
         | https://store.google.com/intl/en/ideas/articles/newest-pixel...
        
         | Glant wrote:
         | 7 years from release date for this and last generation.
        
         | nope1000 wrote:
         | 7 years, also Android version updates:
         | 
         | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en#z...
        
         | the_duke wrote:
         | In June 2025 new EU regulation will come into effect, mandating
         | at least 5 years of OS updates, starting when the model is
         | *removed from the market* aka the last unit is sold.
         | 
         | So in practice that'll mean 7+ years.
         | 
         | Note that Apple and Google made a big deal out of extending
         | their upgrade timelines, without mentioning that they actually
         | have to ... if they want to keep selling in the EU.
        
           | mongol wrote:
           | Wow, wish I knew that last time I purchased my phone. I chose
           | Samsung partly due to this promise.
        
           | orra wrote:
           | > Note that Apple and Google made a big deal about how they
           | are extending their upgrade timelines, without mentioning
           | that they actually have to
           | 
           | This is unsurprising, but deceptive and borderline illegal.
           | "Presenting rights given to consumers in law as a distinctive
           | feature of the trader's offer" is an Unfair Commercial
           | Practice.
        
       | bloggie wrote:
       | "Unlock Gemini Advanced for a year on us ($239 value)"
       | 
       | Who thinks they are booking phone sales as AI revenue to juice
       | the numbers?
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | It's total trash AI. I keep forgetting to unsubscribe. Can't do
         | anything.
        
           | singhrac wrote:
           | I mostly agree, but partially because I can't tell (even
           | though I'm paying $20/month) what tier of Gemini I am
           | getting. I know most people won't care, but because they
           | won't tell me, I will assume I'm getting Gemini Flash from 6
           | months ago, and I'm not paying $20/month for that. I'm sure
           | if they were honest about the model people wouldn't pay for
           | it.
           | 
           | They're making the mistake of optimizing for general case
           | users (who don't care about model version) when they need to
           | attract power users so that they can find product-market fit.
        
             | lagniappe wrote:
             | 20 bucks a month for Gemini is bonkers.
        
               | dudus wrote:
               | The 20 bucks a month is actually for 2TB of storage.
               | Gemini advanced is just a plus.
               | 
               | https://one.google.com/about/plans
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | There's a vanilla 2TB plan for $10/month, the plan with
               | 2TB _and_ Gemini is $20 /month. You could say that Gemini
               | is $10/month then, but if you don't actually need 2TB or
               | the other benefits then you're effectively paying
               | $20/month because you can't unbundle Gemini from
               | everything else.
        
               | fsckboy wrote:
               | when an important fact like this is added to a subthread,
               | i wish all the thread participants would come back and
               | edit their comments to reflect it
        
               | bergie wrote:
               | 12EUR per month here. 10EUR/month for the regular 2TB
               | Google One plan, 22EUR/month for the same but with a
               | chatbot. I wonder who falls for that.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | I have Gemini Advanced but I can't tell which model it is,
             | yeah. Same problem. Whatever it is, it's useless. GPT-2
             | level. Can't do anything reasonable.
             | 
             | Claude 3.5 Sonnet and ChatGPT-4o are roughly the same with
             | the former pipping it for me and then out there is this
             | shitty Google product that is worse than Llama-3 running on
             | my own laptop. Even Llama-3 is better at remembering what's
             | going on.
             | 
             | Fortunately, this time I managed to look it up and I have
             | it for free because I have Google One 5TB, apparently. And
             | there's no way to spend more money so that's what I have.
             | It's so bad that when Claude and ChatGPT run out of
             | messages for me I just use local Llama rather than use
             | Gemini. Atrocious product.
        
               | mda wrote:
               | "it's useless. GPT-2 level" Really?
               | 
               | In my experience they are at similar level for most
               | tasks.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | Yeah, in practice, for the tasks I set it. High
               | hallucination rate. Low context window. Frequently
               | refuses to act and suggests Googling. If the other guys
               | didn't exist, it could be useful, but as it stands it's
               | as useful as GPT-2 because neither of them hit the
               | threshold of usefulness.
               | 
               | I'm sure some benchmarks are decent but when Google
               | finally shutters the chatbot I'll be glad because then I
               | won't constantly be wondering if I'm paying for it.
               | 
               | It's a shame because Google's AI features otherwise are
               | incredible. Google Photos has fantastic facial
               | recognition, and I can search it with descriptions of
               | photos and it finds them. Their keyboard is pretty good.
               | But Gemini Advanced is better off not existing. If it's
               | the same team, I suppose they can't keep making hits. If
               | it's a different team, then they're two orders of
               | magnitude less capable.
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | I used Gemini Pro API to sort my folders, and it
               | misclassified some files, I asked why, and he said it was
               | done to "promote diversity in my folders"
               | 
               | ...
               | 
               | This is very lame (and the sad part is that it's a real
               | story).
        
               | warkdarrior wrote:
               | > Low context window.
               | 
               | Gemini Advanced has 1M context window. If this is low, I
               | am not sure anything else on the market will satisfy you.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | It doesn't actually work. I pasted in a House Resolution
               | and asked it a question and it immediately spazzed and
               | asked me to Google. I used Claude and it just worked.
               | That's the thing about Gemini: it has a lot of stats but
               | it doesn't work. With Claude I could then ask it the
               | section and look at the actual text. With Gemini it just
               | doesn't do it at all.
               | 
               | This feels a lot like when people would tell me how the
               | HP laptop had more gigahertz and stuff and it would
               | inevitably suck compared to a Mac.
        
               | Squarex wrote:
               | In my experience, the latest experimental model is a bit
               | better than the latest Claude/ChatGPT at creativity, but
               | a little worse at general reasoning. They're still mostly
               | comparable and certainly of the same generation.
               | 
               | Where it truly stands out is the 2M context window.
               | That's game-changing for things like analyzing
               | publications and books.
        
               | losvedir wrote:
               | I pay for Gemini Advanced and it's much better than
               | GPT-2, I think. I often search the same thing between
               | Gemini and GPT-4 and it's a toss up which is better (they
               | each get questions right when the other gets it wrong,
               | sometimes).
               | 
               | But recently I asked Gemini "Bill Clinton is famous for
               | his charisma and ability to talk with people. Did he ever
               | share tips on how he does it?" and Gemini responded with
               | some generic "can't talk about politics" answer, which
               | was a real turn-off.
        
               | kweingar wrote:
               | > GPT-2 level
               | 
               | You must not have ever used GPT-2 if you think it is
               | comparable to any commonly used chatbot today
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | How do you know if you are paying for it?
           | 
           | I signed up, but I have no idea if I am being charged for it.
           | Hope not.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | Bottom left. Settings > Manage Subscription. It turns out I
             | have it included till the end of the year because of the
             | 5TB Google One sub
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41237943
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | The absolute confusion/pain in subscribing and
               | unsubscribing is why I'll never consider a Google AI
               | service in the future.
        
               | lwhi wrote:
               | So true.
               | 
               | It feels like Google's marketing has gone full dark side.
               | 
               | And it's lazy marketing. Nothing feels genuinely positive
               | for the consumer.
               | 
               | It's depressing.
        
           | canucker2016 wrote:
           | In the Google Pixel 2024 Keynote, one of the presenters, Dave
           | Citron, had to try three times to get Gemini to perform the
           | preapproved, practiced demonstration task - 33.3% success
           | rate for something that Google KNOWS will work.
           | 
           | see https://www.youtube.com/live/N_y2tP9of8A?t=1692
        
             | canucker2016 wrote:
             | At https://www.youtube.com/live/N_y2tP9of8A?t=4119 in the
             | Google Pixel 2024 keynote, the generative AI in Magic
             | Editor still produces wacky objects - a hot air balloon
             | that looks deflated?! The gen AI did produce two decent-
             | looking hot air balloons.
        
             | 015a wrote:
             | Most of the demo fails they had during today's keynote felt
             | more like beta supporting software and bad network kinds of
             | failures. The only failure I saw that felt more like a
             | generative AI-level failure was one of the hot air balloon
             | image gens they tried which generated a circle of garbage
             | in the sky; which was one variation presented among five or
             | six which the AI spat out in seconds.
        
             | Keyframe wrote:
             | at this stage, I'd be happy with google assistant "only"
             | understanding what I'd like to play on youtube (+music)
             | while driving. Far-fetched dream would be to understand
             | streets I'd like to navigate to via google maps (not US,
             | not english). Barrier is so low compared to rest.
        
         | jgalt212 wrote:
         | and are they booking AI search as cloud revenue?
        
           | eitally wrote:
           | No, absolutely not. The only part of this that would be Cloud
           | revenue would be model usage exposed via Vertex.
        
             | jgalt212 wrote:
             | That's what I meant. Google search expenses become Google
             | cloud revenues.
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | Probably. And we're probably going to see more of that later
         | with other companies.
        
         | petre wrote:
         | Phone with scuba glasses and the woke AI. In fact it looks like
         | Bender from Futurama, only with a nondescript personality.
         | Thanx but no. No need for an AI to lecture me or avoid
         | questions because it thinks it might remotely offend a
         | hypothetic alien civilization.
         | 
         | Can't stand the iPhone either. At least it has a good camera
         | and audio, but most of the apps are either junk or you have to
         | pay for Apple rent seeking. A lot of shady Chinese apps. I
         | spent hours trying to find a decent calculator like the stock
         | one on Android. And the on screen keyboard is outright
         | annoying. Couldn't turn off haptics either.
         | 
         | So I'm still using my Pixel 4a until it dies. The iPhone is
         | garthering dust on my nightstand.
        
         | panarky wrote:
         | Since there's no public reporting of AI revenue, what would be
         | the point of artificially inflating it?
        
           | CobrastanJorji wrote:
           | Some VP of AI wants to become an SVP? And some marketing
           | director on phones wants a "SAVE $250" sticker on all the new
           | phones and is happy to play along?
        
             | HL33tibCe7 wrote:
             | No, the CEO wants to present progress in "AI" (TM) growth
             | within the company to shareholders
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | Internal KPIs
        
       | royal__ wrote:
       | Looks like an iPhone...one of the things I like about the other
       | pixels is the curved bezels..
        
         | smokeyfish wrote:
         | It looks like Bender.
        
           | sdoering wrote:
           | Damn you nailed it. Now I can't unsee it.
        
           | davidw wrote:
           | I came here to write the same thing. It absolutely does.
        
         | geek_at wrote:
         | I have heard this for years. Not much you can do with a
         | rectangle that's basically just a screen in front.
         | 
         | It's more about the software than anything. Maybe the camera
         | too
        
           | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
           | I submit the HTC 10 as an example of a smartphone that did
           | _not_ look like an iPhone but had its own sleek design
           | language:
           | 
           | https://dev.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/s9wsHkNaq6sKCSAzKvfZKo.jpg
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | I mean, the back didn't look a lot like an iPhone, but look
             | at the front in white and compare that to an iPhone 4 in
             | white.
        
             | spankalee wrote:
             | That's kind of ugly though, IMO. I'd rather have a solid
             | back.
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | Nah, it just looks ugly and too sterile. Nothing brave, just
         | another double palm sized phone. A girl who tries very hard to
         | look cool, but the bridge on her head just ruins the overall
         | looks.
         | 
         | Maybe ask LG to make a cool looking phone. They have created a
         | lot of brave designs.
        
       | katzinsky wrote:
       | The only thing that would make a new phone interesting is Linux
       | support.
       | 
       | Otherwise email works, the web works, mms works, and the camera,
       | screen, and RAM, on phones ten years ago was already way more
       | than you need.
       | 
       | The phone specific software barely justifies maintaining a phone
       | (and doesn't for me so I don't even own a modern smartphone.)
       | There's certainly nothing to justify upgrading it.
        
         | mnmalst wrote:
         | Still using my pixel 4a. I refuse to discontinue a perfectly
         | good phone just because the manufacturer decides it's not
         | supported anymore. Hopefully the EU does something about
         | planned obsolesce one day.
        
           | nasdaq-txn wrote:
           | You're using a device that hasn't received security updates
           | in a year to stick it to Google?
        
             | UncleSlacky wrote:
             | LineageOS for the 4a was last updated on 8/8/24:
             | 
             | https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sunfish/
             | 
             | https://download.lineageos.org/devices/sunfish/builds
        
           | zaptrem wrote:
           | Would you pay for continued software support? IIRC Windows
           | upgrades were $100-200 back in the day.
           | 
           | More helpful answer: I think Graphene OS still has security
           | updates for your model (assuming Google doesn't?)
        
           | bergie wrote:
           | EU actually did that:
           | 
           | > These regulations will empower independent repairers and
           | end-users by ensuring access to spare parts and to the
           | information necessary to repair for at least 7 years after
           | the end of the distribution of a product in the market.
           | Additionally, manufacturers will have to make compatible
           | software updates available for at least 5 years.
           | 
           | https://repair.eu/news/new-eu-rules-smartphones-and-
           | tablets-...
        
         | CydeWeys wrote:
         | Picture taking and video recording have gotten unbelievably
         | better over the past decade. They were not remotely sufficient
         | for many use cases ten years ago and even now there's still
         | plenty of room left for improvement.
        
           | katzinsky wrote:
           | idk I was happy with whatever the iPhone 3gs did.
           | 
           | Yeah there's some really amazing stuff the new phone can do
           | but I honestly don't care. If I need a piece of correctly
           | specked camera equipment I'd probably buy a dedicated device
           | with proper cooling and a removable memory card.
        
           | adamc wrote:
           | Not all of us care. I barely use the camera on my phone.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > The only thing that would make a new phone interesting is
         | Linux support.
         | 
         | Looks like you may be interested in Pinephone or Librem 5.
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | Call summary is such a good feature. How many times has your wife
       | snapped her fingers for you to jot something down when she's on
       | the phone with the pediatrician? you go crazy looking for a pen
       | or something
       | 
       | This is why I love my pixel. They build stuff that affects my
       | life day to day. My biggest vote of confidence: since buying my
       | wife a pixel, I've had zero tech support requests. it really just
       | works.
        
         | geraldwhen wrote:
         | Literally never? Do you live in a sitcom?
        
         | urda wrote:
         | Never because clear communication and good lines of
         | understanding make a positive and stable relationship?
         | 
         | Snapping really? Your comment literally reads like a classic "I
         | hate my wife" boomer meme and it comes off as kind of gross.
        
           | vundercind wrote:
           | None of the post involved a lack of clear lines of
           | communication. Sometimes someone on a call could use help
           | making a note and it can be tricky to find pen and paper.
           | Communicating better with your spouse won't make the kids put
           | the kitchen pen back where it goes or make it easier to both
           | listen and hunt for things at the same time.
        
           | sergiotapia wrote:
           | you are projecting something gross on a total stranger
           | online. check yourself.
        
             | urda wrote:
             | You don't snap at waiters, you don't snap at your spouse or
             | partner. If you think that's "projecting" you have bigger
             | issues and internal-unresolved-trauma my friend. I think
             | you need to follow your own advice here: Check yourself
             | immediately.
             | 
             | Spouses and partners treat each other with respect, and no
             | that doesn't involve snapping.
        
               | valicord wrote:
               | You do when you're on the phone and need to attract
               | attention of someone nearby. I guess waving a hand in
               | front of their face also works...
        
               | owlninja wrote:
               | Seems like a pretty common gesture when you are on the
               | phone, someone is talking to you on the other end, and
               | you want to get another person's attention in the room
               | who is not looking at you. You are reading way too much
               | into it.
        
         | jimcsharp wrote:
         | I can't record calls but Google can? Gross.
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | > you go crazy looking for a pen or something
         | 
         | When I was a kid, my mom would keep a cup of dead pens next to
         | the phone just to annoy my father and I when we went looking
         | for a pen :-)
        
         | xlbuttplug2 wrote:
         | According to the keynote, it notifies the other party that
         | you're using it, which makes sense, but also makes things
         | awkward.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Is there a new camera system? As I recall the physical hardware
       | of Pixel cameras have not changed in years.
        
         | Grazester wrote:
         | That was true up until the Pixel 7 or something.
        
           | ianburrell wrote:
           | It was Pixel 6 that made a big jump in quality. From 8 MP in
           | Pixel 5 to 50 MP in Pixel 6. They also added ultrawide and
           | telephoto on Pro. They have a big jump in sensor size to
           | larger than most compacts. The Pixel 8 has even big sensor.
           | The big sensor is the reason for the camera hump on the back.
        
         | xd1936 wrote:
         | They said they've rewritten the HDR+ image processing pipeline
         | from scratch for the first time in their live event. Not sure
         | about the Pixel 9 hardware... I think the Pixel 8 was the first
         | new sensor in a while though.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | The sensors are supposed to be new (except for the fold)
        
         | spankalee wrote:
         | The front camera is a big upgrade: 10.5 MP to 42 MP from the 8
         | Pro to 9 Pro.
         | 
         | The rear wide camera looks the same, but the rear ultrawide
         | seems like it has a small upgrade. Better aperture at least.
        
           | DataDive wrote:
           | > The front camera is a big upgrade: 10.5 MP to 42 MP from
           | the 8 Pro to 9 Pro.
           | 
           | 42MP???
           | 
           | Wouldn't that just rapidly fill up the storage for most of
           | their users
           | 
           | with little if any other tangible benefit ... maybe that is
           | part of the plan :-) ... the profit
        
             | atrus wrote:
             | Front Camera though, so mostly for video chats.
        
       | bhhaskin wrote:
       | I don't want AI on my phone, so will pass on this one.
        
         | katzinsky wrote:
         | It would be nice to be able to run llama.cpp on my phone but if
         | I had the choice between that and a root shell and c compiler
         | I'd definitely take the shell.
        
           | ValleZ wrote:
           | Private AI app in play store wraps llama.cpp
        
             | katzinsky wrote:
             | Heh I guess that's a good point. All I have is a ten year
             | old iPhone just to run Cisco DUO for work and there seems
             | to be no way to run llama.cpp on it even with a very small
             | model.
             | 
             | Occasionally I'll use i.sh to ssh into a decent computer
             | but it would be nice to be able to just run normal software
             | on it.
        
         | sigmar wrote:
         | Do you think the inclusion of AI is some new departure? Google
         | has declared itself as "AI-first" for the past 8 years[1].
         | There's been neural cores included in every Pixel since the
         | Pixel 4.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/sundar-pichai-ai-first-
         | world...
        
       | Rastonbury wrote:
       | The previous camera bulge was questionable but this one looks
       | horrendous
        
         | blackfawn wrote:
         | Cases have helped on past pixels but agreed, this one looks
         | pretty terrible!
        
         | urda wrote:
         | It's a really ugly phone, and for sure it's a combination of
         | Google playing "catch up" but not wanting to invest in
         | Industrial Design like Apple.
        
           | mcphage wrote:
           | Is it? Maybe I've spent too long using iPhones--I look at
           | that, and think "yep, that's a phone". It looks very vanilla.
        
           | TwentyPosts wrote:
           | I think the much rounder corners, as well as the round camera
           | bulge look terrible. These were significantly better in the
           | previous iterations.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | All camera bulges are a poor design. Just make the battery
         | thicker. Either way people are throwing a case on to make the
         | back straight again.
        
           | vundercind wrote:
           | I think the bulges are because everyone's using a case
           | anyway, so they may as well bump out. Unless someone's doing
           | the "I care so little about protecting several hundred
           | dollars that I use an expensive phone without a case" thing.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | I never use cases and I haven't had a phone break from
             | physical damage in over a decade. Phones these days are
             | pretty dang durable. I really don't want a giant brick in
             | my pocket.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | I never used a case and know a number of other people who
             | don't.
        
             | kingofthehill98 wrote:
             | I never used a case in my life, owned like 6 phones since
             | my first Galaxy back in 2012. Much rather deal with a few
             | scratches than touching some cheap case instead of the
             | premium metal/glass.
             | 
             | My reason is that I never sell phones anyway, after 2 years
             | I get a new one and give the old one to a cousin or
             | something like that.
        
               | Kiro wrote:
               | It's not about selling them. It's about protecting it
               | when you drop it etc.
        
               | fullstop wrote:
               | Have you held a Pixel 7 Pro? They are _way_ too smooth
               | without a case. It's like trying to hold a wet bar of
               | soap.
        
               | gtirloni wrote:
               | I have dry hands and can't hold my Galaxy S23+ with glass
               | back at all. It slips out of my hand all the time. No way
               | I can use without a case. It'd break on the first day.
        
               | aembleton wrote:
               | I have a leather case for my Pixel 7 [1]. Much better
               | feel in the hand.
               | 
               | 1. https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1303285181/leather-
               | google-pi...
        
               | deelowe wrote:
               | I used to say the same thing, then one day I tripped and
               | shattered my phone. It was nothing I did that caused it.
               | Just a small bit of uneven pavement was enough to ruin
               | the whole device.
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | I just pay the extra $30 or whatever for accident
             | protection. That's about the same price as a case and
             | accomplishes the same goal. I think of it as a zero-ounce
             | case.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Where do you get $30 accident protection for the lifetime
               | of a phone? I've looked into Apple Care for this in the
               | past, and it was about 10 times that for two years, with
               | a deductible for broken screens.
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | I honestly don't remember how much it was when I got my
               | last phone, but I don't remember thinking it was
               | particularly expensive. I'm an Android user.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | I've never used a case and never will. It's not that hard
             | to not drop your phone, and unless you get a heavy duty
             | case (like an OtterBox) they aren't adding much protection
             | anyways. It's not worth the added expense, ugly look, and
             | crappy plastic texture.
        
             | wilsonnb3 wrote:
             | iPhone bumps have been so egregiously large that they don't
             | lay flat even with a case for a few years now.
             | 
             | You've got to specifically look for one that has raised
             | corners or something to compensate.
        
             | partdavid wrote:
             | My wallet case is indispensable (to me). In other words,
             | I'd rather use the "space" of the camera's bump-out for my
             | own purposes (ID and credit card) than a worse camera or
             | even more-er battery life (for some time now "more than a
             | day" is indistinguishable to me from "more than a day and a
             | half") or some other gadget. Probably. Um, maybe put some
             | more gadgets on the phone and I'll get back to you on that
             | one...
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | > Just make the battery thicker
           | 
           | These devices are already rather heavy.
           | 
           | I wish there were more options for people who don't care that
           | much about the camera in their smartphone. I remember the
           | non-bump camera in the 7.6 mm thin 2016 iPhone SE was
           | perfectly fine for many situations, I took some impressive
           | vacation photos with it.
        
             | Veuxdo wrote:
             | > I wish there were more options for people who don't care
             | that much about the camera in their smartphone.
             | 
             | Just get a cheap phone? If you're paying $500+ for a phone,
             | I'd estimate most of that money is going into the camera.
             | Judging by the marketing, anyway.
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | There's a whole market of 250-400$ Android phones that are
             | targeting exactly that. Every brand makes phones in the
             | cheap with average camera segment.
        
           | ajross wrote:
           | > Either way people are throwing a case on to make the back
           | straight again.
           | 
           | Alternatively it's just exploiting "everyone uses a case" to
           | get a mm or two of space for the camera lens that can very
           | productively use it. Thickening the whole device only makes
           | sense for people who _don 't_ use a case, which is basically
           | no one (well, me, but most people love their cases).
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | I love the camera bump on the Pixel 6. I made a leather belt
           | pouch1 for it for use on trips and hiking, and the camera
           | bump sits neatly on the edge of the front of the pouch (the
           | back part curves around as a flap over the top). It gives my
           | fingers exactly the right grip to grab it and get a solid
           | grip on the whole device as I lift it out of its pouch.
           | 
           | Never used a case for any phone I've owned.
           | 
           | 1: Using the wet moulding technique.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Indeed, at this point my workflow is pretty mature. The
           | camera bump ends up unnoticeable to me because I'll throw it
           | into a Spigen case anyway. Seems like a lot of people are
           | doing that.
        
           | asadotzler wrote:
           | No one wants that weight. A thicker battery puts the phone
           | out of comfort for everyone. A thicker camera bump puts the
           | phone out of comfort for only a few.
        
         | jaderobbins1 wrote:
         | I really liked the "visor" style of camera bump since the Pixel
         | 6. I like symmetry so the square corner bumps always bothered
         | me, plus it didn't give it a corner wobble when sitting on a
         | table. I wish they would have gone full width on the new Fold
         | :/
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | At least the non-folding Pixel 9's have the symmetry in tact
           | for the outline of the bump, but agreed, I do like the full-
           | width visor on my 6 better.
        
         | samketchup wrote:
         | I hated the camera bulge and in display finger reader on the 7
         | so much that I downgraded to a 5
        
         | jocaal wrote:
         | Mobile phones are a mature technology. There aren't any
         | opportunities to differentiate designs. For cars, they all look
         | the same and differentiate brands with headlights and grills,
         | phones only have the camera bump to differentiate brands.
        
         | jerjerjer wrote:
         | I thought the same before I bought it (Pixel 8) but with a case
         | it's okay.
        
         | babl-yc wrote:
         | My main criticism with the camera bump on the Pixel 9 are the
         | sharp edges. It makes it difficult to slip into pants without
         | catching, and also collects dust.
         | 
         | I was hoping they'd chamfer the edge in future models but it
         | doesn't look like that's happening.
         | 
         | Using a case solves this, but it shouldn't be required.
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | Is there a technical reason for the ai feature to be on this
       | phone and not just like an app, or is it just limited on purpose
       | to this phone?
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Often features that are touted as being only for the newest
         | Pixel phones, come to all Pixel phones (or all Android phones)
         | in a few months.
        
       | surfingdino wrote:
       | No, thanks.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | Why?
        
           | surfingdino wrote:
           | Pixels are always pushing the boundaries of invasion of
           | privacy. We need less of it, not more.
        
             | Biganon wrote:
             | Pixels are the only androphones on which you cab install
             | GrapheneOS...
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | Which is why I don't trust GrapheneOS. They seemingly
               | push Google on the privacy and security crowd while
               | ignoring truly freedom-respecting devices like GNU/Linux
               | phones, which would be supported forever.
               | 
               | For GrapheneOS, trust in Google is ultimate. If you don't
               | trust it, you're out of luck. My threat model is
               | different.
        
       | jsheard wrote:
       | There's also the obligatory non-Pro model, and a refresh of the
       | Pixel Fold:
       | 
       | https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_9
       | 
       | https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_9_pro_fold
       | 
       | Usually the Pro is bigger than the non-Pro but this time they're
       | exactly the same size, and they've added a bigger Pro XL variant.
       | 
       | https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Google-Pixel-9,Google...
       | 
       | The Pro and Pro XL appear to have identical specs aside from the
       | screen size/resolution and a slightly bigger battery in the XL.
        
         | appel wrote:
         | I'm glad they finally went this route. I can't be the only one
         | who usually wants the specs of the Pro but always opts for the
         | smallest phone (p1, p3, p5 & now p8).
        
           | nvy wrote:
           | Indeed, it's a good choice. My wife has been routinely
           | annoyed that the phone with superior specs was/is always
           | uncomfortably large for her hands.
        
           | adamc wrote:
           | I did that with the Pixel 8. Although I don't really care
           | about the better camera either.
        
           | buu700 wrote:
           | Pretty much in the same boat here. The P9P is around the same
           | size as my P8 (0.1" shifted from depth to width), which is
           | great news. I would pay more for a better camera, but I care
           | more about compactness than camera quality.
        
           | Sebguer wrote:
           | The funny thing is the Fold is actually the smallest phone by
           | height, and the thickness change isn't as big as you'd
           | think...
        
             | afavour wrote:
             | The price change, on the other hand...
        
           | ClassyJacket wrote:
           | Same. I wish you could get a Galaxy S Ultra, _with the
           | stylus_ in a smaller size.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | As likely _anyone_ on HN is to hold: I have a bunch of old
           | phones.
           | 
           | How harvest sensors, cams, thingamathings and have a new
           | cadre of people who can build plans to take sensor THING from
           | PHONEA and CAMERA from PHONEB and etc... and build a thing
           | where these already known devices can be harvested and
           | incorporated into projects, products, etc... and not
           | landfil.?
        
         | jorvi wrote:
         | Would have been nice if they did a regular size (5.8") for
         | normal people and 6.8" for the genetic freaks with dinner plate
         | hands.
         | 
         | 6.3" is still huge. 5.8" is workable. And it's not like there's
         | no precedent, the Zenfone 10 is also 5.8" and is adored for it.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | > the Zenfone 10 is also 5.8" and is adored for it.
           | 
           | Then they released the enormous 6.8" Zenfone 11 Ultra this
           | March, with still no indication that there will be a smaller
           | variant. The small Zenfone 10 might not have sold well enough
           | to justify doing another one.
        
           | elromulous wrote:
           | The Zenfone 10 traded height for depth. It was very thick.
        
             | mminer237 wrote:
             | That's 100% fine. I've never cared how thick my phone is in
             | the least.
        
               | eks391 wrote:
               | If you rotate the phone backwards 90deg, you can reach
               | all corners but the depth will be like 7"
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | I long for the days of being able to reach all four corners
           | of my phone screen with one thumb. I had an iPhone 12 mini
           | which was a wonderful respite, but apparently us small phone
           | fans are a small enough demographic to not warrant serving.
           | 
           | What's extra annoying is I never felt the need to use a case
           | when phones were smaller, but one-handed corner reaching
           | upsets the balance of the phone in my hand now to the point
           | where it feels like a necessity--making the phone even bigger
           | and bulkier.
        
             | adamomada wrote:
             | iPhone has this accessibility feature 'Reachability' that
             | can help. On the SE you double tap (but not click) the home
             | button, I think on others you swipe up and down quickly
             | from the bottom centre.
        
               | loloquwowndueo wrote:
               | Reachability is useless and no substitute for a smaller
               | screen. It just slows you down, obscures the bottom half
               | of the screen and makes a lot of gestures impossible.
        
             | wolpoli wrote:
             | At this point, it is just easier to stick a popsocket to
             | the back so I don't feel like I am going to drop the phone.
        
           | myaccountonhn wrote:
           | 6.8" is so close to their old Nexus 7 tablet that was 7" lol
        
             | spicybbq wrote:
             | Screen yeah, but the tablet was a lot bigger, almost 2x the
             | surface area
             | 
             | Nexus 7: 198.5 x 120 x 10.5 mm, 340 g
             | 
             | Pixel 9 XL: 162.8 x 76.6 x 8.5 mm, 221 g
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | Small display sizes used to mean "cheap phone" for so long
           | that people still won't pay more money for a smaller device.
           | 
           | Not for lack of trying, since both Apple and Samsung tried in
           | 2019 with their mini iPhones and Galaxy S10e respectively
           | which were both smaller versions of their normal phones.
           | Neither line continues today.
           | 
           | Apple has some precedent with their premium iPad Mini which
           | costs more than their normal iPad and gets irregularly
           | updated, but it might be hard to market an "iPhone Mini SE
           | Pro".
        
             | officeplant wrote:
             | My dream is the iPhone SE for 2025 is just a iPhone 13 mini
             | with upgraded chip and one camera.
             | 
             | It'll never happen but I'll keep dreaming.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | The only thing that could pry an iPhone from my hands is a
         | foldable screen. I have envy.
        
           | Volundr wrote:
           | I have a zFlip 5 and love it. I was pretty hesitant about
           | switching (Pixel user before) but I like the smaller size in
           | my pocket when folded and there seems to be a psychological
           | effect of closing it when I'm done that results in my
           | mindlessly fiddling with it less.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | >psychological effect of closing it
             | 
             | When I close mine, my dog immediately jumps up because he
             | knows I'm done sitting down messing with my phone.
        
           | listless wrote:
           | You and me both. I consider switching a few times a year just
           | for this.
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | The Pixel and iPhone are really seeming homogenous with each
         | other. The marketing seems similar, typefaces used, the naming
         | conventions are close to the same, the airbrushed image
         | generators, the photos app marketing that's turning your
         | personal photos into a photoshoot with editing capabilities.
         | 
         | On top of that you've got the same earbuds form factor, smart
         | watches, etc.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | I wish we had more than two phone giants. This is
           | aggravating.
           | 
           | Unfortunately due to their market dominance and muddling of
           | (hardware, OS, software distribution, and platform
           | ecosystem), it's almost impossible to disentangle.
           | 
           | It'd be amazing if the DOJ made these companies only offer
           | one slice of those four things. There would be so much
           | competition and a wild variety of new things being tried.
        
             | hibikir wrote:
             | As far as the phone hardware goes, Google isn't much of a
             | giant worldwide: Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, Huawei and probably
             | a few more outsell Google. The pixel is downright rare
             | outside of the US.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | They don't even sell Pixels in most places, the Pixel 9
               | series is launching in 32 countries, except the Pixel 9
               | Fold which is only launching in 19. Believe it or not
               | that's a significant improvement from the Pixel 8 series
               | and first Fold which debuted in only 20 and 4 countries
               | respectively.
        
               | hotdeo wrote:
               | Pixels were the best selling android smartphone of 2023
               | in Japan. It's gained a lot of popularity recently here
               | in Japan.
        
               | bla3 wrote:
               | It's rare in the US too. Less rare than outside it, but
               | still < 5% market share.
        
               | caddemon wrote:
               | Also Samsung has been innovating with hardware. I'm not
               | the hugest fan of their flavor of Android but I
               | absolutely love my flip phone and would not consider
               | switching back to iOS or pure Android unless Apple or
               | Google were to make a flip.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | Google is like 3%ish of the smartphone market in the US.
             | Pixel phones are US-focused, so I can't imagine they're
             | that high worldwide.
             | 
             | https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/us-smartphone-market-share
             | 
             | The two big phone giants in the US are Apple and Samsung.
             | Of which Samsung isn't muddling the hardware, OS, software
             | distribution. Maybe platform ecosystem, but generally a
             | Samsung smartwatch or headphones will work with any other
             | Android phone just fine.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | Tangentially related, but I will say that I was
               | pleasantly surprised by how well Airpods (at least the
               | original ones) worked with Android phones.
               | 
               | I got the original Airpods about a year before I switched
               | to iPhone, and they worked pretty much flawlessly with my
               | Galaxy S8+. I assume they missed Siri-specific features
               | (which I don't care for even after switching to iPhone),
               | and the newer ones probably miss some other more
               | advanced/iOS-specific features (like Apple's
               | implementation of spatial audio and speech awareness).
               | But all the actual main functionality was there, and I
               | never felt like I was missing out by not using Airpods
               | with iOS.
               | 
               | Apple Watch is a different story though, but it kinda
               | makes sense, given how tightly integrated into iOS it is
               | with quite a bit of private health data (that I would
               | never trust Android with managing properly).
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Oddly enough there _is_ an official Android app for Beats
               | headphones, which use the exact same Apple SoCs as
               | AirPods ever since Apple acquired them. They surely could
               | extend that app to work with AirPods too but they
               | arbitrarily decided they 're not going to.
        
               | freeone3000 wrote:
               | Why would you _want_ an app for bluetooth headphones?
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Equalizer config, shortcut button config, and firmware
               | updates mainly. There isn't a standard way to do those on
               | Android without a manufacturer-specific app. As for why
               | you might want to update the firmware on your headphones,
               | well...
               | 
               | https://blogs.gnome.org/jdressler/2024/06/26/do-a-
               | firmware-u...
        
             | rangestransform wrote:
             | I would rather have a better phone than more options,
             | apple's 800-pound gorilla-ness gets me a phone with:
             | 
             | - an SoC made on TSMC's latest process node, with a
             | humongous die, and all the associated power/performance
             | benefits
             | 
             | - because of how many phones apple can sell, they can
             | divide the cost of R&D over more units, and can design
             | things like their own CPU cores
             | 
             | - "Ask app not to track" that works, because of the app
             | store monopoly
             | 
             | - I don't have to use 12342342345234 payment apps for each
             | bank's credit card, Apple Wallet works with all of them
             | (the EU wants to ruin this for Europeans)
             | 
             | As a consumer, I'm a huge fan of US antitrust law, where
             | the test is harm to consumers
        
               | oorza wrote:
               | There's that old saying that a benevolent dictatorship is
               | the best and most effective form of government, right up
               | until the dictator dies.
               | 
               | All of the antitrust shit Apple does largely benefits its
               | consumers _for the moment_. It's worth acknowledging
               | that, but it's also worth acknowledging that this is
               | necessarily a temporary state, and under different
               | leadership, Apple will make different decisions.
        
               | Hikikomori wrote:
               | >- because of how many phones apple can sell, they can
               | divide the cost of R&D over more units, and can design
               | things like their own CPU cores
               | 
               | As if you're benefitting from that with apples margins.
        
             | oorza wrote:
             | Would there be competition though? Take the mobile app
             | stores: consumers are going to demand that prices are
             | consistent across storefronts (or preferentially buy from
             | the cheapest option), so that market will inevitably race
             | to the bottom. Is that better for consumers than Apple and
             | Google operating them and demanding a high enough margin to
             | support moderation and review? Or hardware; if Apple was
             | mandated to support Android on their devices, who do you
             | think is going to pay for the additional testing burden?
             | Apple's certainly not going to take it out of their profit
             | margin, they're going to forward the expense down the line,
             | as will everyone else.
             | 
             | You'd be right that there'd be a lot of new ideas floated
             | and a lot of competition, but it's hard to see how that
             | plays out in a way that benefits the consumer and make
             | smart phones a better value. I'm no fan of the duopoly, but
             | it's hard to imagine how forcing them to break their
             | services apart winds up anywhere other than the services
             | becoming noticeably shittier and only like 5% of people
             | bothering to change from the defaults anyway. I also think
             | that the innovation around smartphones has all but died,
             | and if there was some killer innovation to be had, it would
             | probably be worth much more in this market than an open
             | market. The market is harder to make distinctions in than
             | even electric cars are, and a distinguishing innovation
             | would surely trigger a bidding war between Apple and Google
             | at this point.
             | 
             | It's a rough case of what I want philosophically (break
             | them up with great prejudice) and what I think is best for
             | the user experience itself being directly at odds.
        
               | nvy wrote:
               | >Is that better for consumers than Apple and Google
               | operating them and demanding a high enough margin to
               | support moderation and review?
               | 
               | Do their moderation/review processes meaningfully improve
               | the situation for users?
               | 
               | Both app stores are replete with scam/spam/spy/malware
               | apps. I'm not convinced that the app stores are able to
               | materially affect the quality of apps that go through.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | They certainly improve the situation for shareholders. I
               | am banned from the Google app store for making an app
               | which was labeled with the service it interacted with,
               | which was trademarked. (Example: If you make a Reddit
               | app, Google won't let you put "Reddit" anywhere in the
               | label without Reddit's legal permission, making it
               | impossible for anyone to discover your app through
               | search, which is the way people discover apps)
        
               | nvy wrote:
               | It's not clear to me from your example what the
               | relationship is to shareholders.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | it's good for the shareholders of reddit, and any other
               | company that trademarked something you might want to make
               | an app about
        
             | com2kid wrote:
             | > Unfortunately due to their market dominance and muddling
             | of (hardware, OS, software distribution, and platform
             | ecosystem), it's almost impossible to disentangle.
             | 
             | I think it is more complicated, and nuanced, than this.
             | 
             | I have a theory that the world can only support a maximum
             | of 2 consumer computing platforms at a time, due to the
             | cost of writing and porting software. Therefore causing a
             | natural tendency towards either a monopoly (seen in the 90s
             | and early 2000s) or a duopoly (the current smartphone era).
             | 
             | The fact is writing software is expensive. Developing cross
             | platform frameworks is also incredibly difficult and in the
             | case of Mobile, has taken a massive 3rd party entity
             | (Facebook) the better part of a decade (React Native) to
             | get even close to "working well" (with other solutions also
             | being decade long projects). One can argue that during the
             | first decade of Android vs iPhone, (2007 to 2017) that the
             | cross platform solutions were all pretty terrible, thus the
             | massive shakeup that React Native (for all its warts)
             | caused.
             | 
             | Then there is the fact that developing a consumer OS is
             | hard and expensive. Very few companies have the resources
             | needed to make a consumer OS. Not just writing software,
             | but localization, documentation, SDKs, UX work, security,
             | update infrastructure, and so on and so forth.
             | 
             | Honestly I'd say today's current duopoly may even be a bad
             | thing for small software companies, basically doubling
             | development costs. Compare this to the 90s when releasing
             | consumer software just meant compiling for a Microsoft OS
             | and never worrying again because Microsoft handled forwards
             | compatibility for you!
             | 
             | Contrast that to now days where you see applications to
             | control smart appliances apps being discontinued left and
             | right because companies cannot justify keeping 2 dev teams
             | staffed so they can patch an app once every couple years
             | when app store guidelines force changes.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | I have one counter point for you:
               | 
               | HTML
               | 
               | If we adopted standards instead of making walled gardens,
               | things would work. If the onus was on Apple and Google to
               | make their platforms standards compliant, and that the
               | egg would be on their face if they didn't, they would be
               | the ones doing the rigorous testing, bug fixing, and
               | optimization.
               | 
               | If Microsoft can make their platform work for 20+ years
               | of software, Apple and Google can be on the hook for
               | HTML, WASM, and a standardized UI and hardware
               | abstraction layer.
        
         | JoshTriplett wrote:
         | Sadly, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold seems to have the camera of the
         | base Pixel 9 (non-Pro), rather than the much nicer camera of
         | the Pixel 9 Pro.
        
         | knodi123 wrote:
         | And the XL has higher audio gain. But yeah, those are the only
         | differences.
        
       | seneca wrote:
       | "AI" on my phone is so incredibly unappealing. I don't understand
       | who this is for.
        
         | cedws wrote:
         | AI phone... AI laptop... AI car... AI toothbrush... yeah
         | nobody's asking for this shit. It's just uninventive,
         | unimaginative marketing rubbish. Real innovation doesn't need
         | to go looking for use cases.
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | Totally agree.
           | 
           | Look at the marketing text on the Pixel Fold (https://store.g
           | oogle.com/us/product/pixel_9_pro_fold?hl=en-U...):
           | 
           | "An epic display of Google AI. All the magic of Gemini on
           | Pixel's largest screen."
           | 
           | It is not only completely cringeworthy, but also nonsensical.
           | How does having a bigger display affect AI at all? What sets
           | it apart from other Pixels? Nothing.
           | 
           | I am honestly shocked that this company can keep putting out
           | garbage like this. Any smaller company or startup would go
           | bankrupt and cannot afford to be this sloppy and incompetent.
           | This is only possible if your company has enormous cash
           | reserves and monopolistic market position, where you can eat
           | losses and fail repeatedly on epic scales.
        
             | shinycode wrote:
             | Never in my life I will buy any Google product. They so
             | easily kill products used by millions without second
             | thought. This destroyed my trust in the company, they just
             | don't care enough, it's all about profit and their
             | monopolistic position. I hope other smaller companies with
             | better ethics will emerge
        
               | adamc wrote:
               | Well, from the phone viewpoint people buy them to get a
               | less garbage-filled android experience. Most consumers
               | don't really expect phones to last forever... because
               | they seldom do.
        
               | shinycode wrote:
               | My comment is still valid for software killed in the
               | mobile space. I don't know what other people feel but I
               | have a strange feeling that, because they have so much
               | money, anything other than search is built temporarily.
               | All their software, their apps and services aren't build
               | to last. It's built for now and later they will abandon
               | to start from scratch. It's easier to start over from
               | scratch with a new team than to make what's been built
               | last. That comes from a shortsighted vision that I
               | dislike.
        
             | adamc wrote:
             | Monopolies are very profitable.
        
         | throwaway48476 wrote:
         | It's for the investors.
        
       | achow wrote:
       | Country availability
       | 
       | https://support.google.com/store/answer/2462844?hl=en_US
        
         | kyriakos wrote:
         | Ridiculous how a company the size of Google can only support
         | such a small part of the world. What's even stranger is that
         | they don't support most of the strong android markets.
        
       | cube2222 wrote:
       | So, if I understand correctly this "built-in" Gemini is 100% just
       | calling to the Gemini cloud backend?
       | 
       | Honestly, Apple Intelligence is looking _much_ better than this.
       | But I suppose it's no wonder, I don't think Pixels are a large
       | market for Google, while iPhones kind of are for Apple.
        
         | tomasff wrote:
         | There's Gemini Nano which runs on-device
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | I fail to see what is much better about a system where you
         | don't know when it sends your data to the cloud or not (and is
         | likely to do it 90% of the time).
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | No, it's not all just calling to a cloud backend. The newer
         | Pixels have hardware to do some stuff on-board, including non-
         | trivial stuff like realtime audio cleanup (that works amazingly
         | btw). STT and TTS are done mostly locally as well (with some
         | cloud processing used when network connection is available),
         | but can work all offline. The Gemini Advanced stuff is going to
         | the cloud though.
        
           | cube2222 wrote:
           | Yeah I was primarily speaking about the LLM part, as apple is
           | doing that (smaller LLM models will handle simpler tasks on
           | device and hand over to cloud when necessary + apps will be
           | able to efficiently deliver fine-tuned LORAs for the already-
           | available local models).
           | 
           | I do remember a lot of other typical "AI" stuff being done
           | locally and well when I had a pixel a couple years ago.
        
       | jph wrote:
       | I love Google Pixel phones because of Google Fi for traveling;
       | unfortunately Google Fi is facing major service
       | downgrades/outages for travelers (including me) who go on 3+
       | month trips out of the US. Google Support tells me the Google
       | Pixel 9 Pro has the same limitation. For comparison my iPhone
       | works fine on Verizon.
       | 
       | The issue is now described in the Google Pixel T&C, and I hope
       | Google will eventually offer a way to buy a Google Pixel phone
       | and Google Fi that offers full functionality for longer trips.
       | 
       | Here's a link about it:
       | 
       | https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/tech-tips/goog...
        
         | ericpruitt wrote:
         | Do you have a link with more information on the pending
         | changes?
        
           | jph wrote:
           | Added link above. The changes took effect last year.
        
         | drawnwren wrote:
         | fwiw, T-Mobile also have the 90 days restriction. I'm not
         | entirely sure it's a company policy vs a US policy.
        
           | jph wrote:
           | Google Support tells me it's a Google company policy, not a
           | U.S. policy. And for comparison, Verizon works fine, just by
           | paying a bit extra for extended roaming.
        
             | NotSammyHagar wrote:
             | people in the rick steves link say you just tell tmo when
             | you get back in the us to reset it/turn it on for the us.
             | This should not have unclear limits of course.
        
               | supertrope wrote:
               | The issue with having an explicit threshold is super
               | heavy users will use right up to the limit and recommend
               | it to other super heavy users. This MVNO then gets a
               | disproportionate percentage of unprofitable roaming
               | costs. The solution is for them to pass through the costs
               | so there's no dancing around the costs by suddenly
               | cutting you off.
        
           | ydant wrote:
           | It's just an anecdote, but from my one-time experience the 90
           | days restriction isn't a hard restriction with TMobile.
           | Service worked fine for 5 months for a family member abroad
           | (in a single country) with no issues or messaging from
           | TMobile about an overstay - although this was on a family
           | plan with other phones in the US for the majority of that
           | time.
        
         | meowster wrote:
         | I know it's not a good solution, but I wonder if you can send
         | the Google Fi eSim to a friend back in the states to "reset"
         | the 90 day counter then have the friend send you back the eSim.
        
         | nogridbag wrote:
         | Interesting. I likely won't be in a position to take a 3+ month
         | trip for a long time. But I just came back from spending 1
         | month in China and Google Fi worked flawlessly in China and
         | Taiwan. I had better 5G coverage in Shanghai than in the US.
         | 
         | My main complaint is once you go over your data limit and opt
         | into the $10/GB there's no way to restrict your speed. It may
         | sound silly, but I was hesitant to click some links as they may
         | start loading tons of pictures and videos below the fold and
         | cost me a dollar or two per click. So I pretty much limited my
         | browsing to HN!
        
           | canucker2016 wrote:
           | With uBlock Origin installed (I use Android Firefox), you can
           | block large media elements from loading for all sites or per
           | site. see https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Per-site-
           | switches
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Google Fi also has a very annoying rule where you can't sign up
         | when you're out of the country. Found that on while on
         | vacation.
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | I think its a pretty reasonable anti fraud policy.
        
         | DataDive wrote:
         | I used to be a Google Fi fan (early adopter at that) for
         | European trips ... but nowadays, with multi-ESims, it is
         | trivial to get a local SIM card and use that.
         | 
         | The local data plans are typically more broadly useable and
         | cheaper than the $10/GB that Fi offers.
         | 
         | When it comes to Europe (and this might apply to other
         | destinations as well) Fi is a bad deal.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Definitely applies to many Asian countries as well.
           | 
           | Often, eSims get significantly better latency too, since you
           | get an IP from close to where you are instead of your data
           | having to cross one or more oceans. A VoIP call between two
           | US SIMs/phones roaming in Asia is not a great experience.
        
             | pixelesque wrote:
             | Note that's not always the case: eSIMs I got from Nomad and
             | Airalo in Europe/UK last year were routing things via Hong
             | Kong, so things like DDG and google search using the SIM
             | geolocated me to Hong Kong all the time, and the latency
             | was noticeably bad.
             | 
             | If you read the reviews of some of the eSIMs there are
             | quite a few mentions of this happening.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Definitely - you need to be aware of that when picking
               | one. Some vendors are pretty transparent about their "IP
               | location" these days, fortunately.
               | 
               | Some, like Truphone, even have multiple gateways that are
               | dynamically selected for lower latency, which is very
               | neat (but they're generally more expensive).
        
         | burkaman wrote:
         | I also love Google Fi, but FYI there are substantially cheaper
         | phones that are still compatible. For example they will sell
         | you this one for $60 right now:
         | https://fi.google.com/about/phones/moto-g-5g-2024. No idea if
         | that's a good phone, just saying that if you're mostly in it
         | for the international coverage there's no reason to pay $800+
         | for a brand new Pixel when you need a new phone.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | It sucks about google fi after 90d, but Verizon is $10/d or
         | $100 per billing cycle, no? It was easy and cheap for me to get
         | a local sim (in Barcelona and London, at least). Does verizon
         | still lock your phone? I had a bad experience traveling with
         | Verizon to Munich. It was one of a handful of reasons I dropped
         | them as my carrier. This was many years ago though.
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | I have never been less excited for a phone.
       | 
       | Maybe it's the One Plus 12 I'm holding, but this is a hard pass
       | by me.
       | 
       | All I want is a flagship chip, Esim support and a headphone jack.
       | But since earbuds are almost all profit we won't see jacks coming
       | back.
        
         | Ayesh wrote:
         | Sony flagships fit these requirements (micro SD card slot,
         | swim, flagship chip, esim, etc) but they unfortunately don't
         | feel as polished in the software end. Not to mention Sony
         | phones being very difficult to find.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | I don't think Sony is releasing new phones in the US anymore.
        
             | robotnikman wrote:
             | You can still order them online and they work fine.
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | One big concern I have is getting security updates quickly.
           | If there's a zero day issue, how would Sony act?
        
         | MostlyStable wrote:
         | I'm looking at either a 5a, or one of the Samsung budget phones
         | since I don't care about the flagship chip. But I wouldn't be
         | surprised if this is the last time getting a new phone where
         | headphone jack is an option at all.
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | > and a headphone jack
         | 
         | Just use a USB-C adapter. No, it's not as good as if it was
         | built in. Yes, it's good enough. Yes, they make
         | charge+headphone adapters.
        
         | AndrewDucker wrote:
         | Take a look at the Nokia XR21. Headphone jack, esim, and
         | incredibly rugged
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | The OnePlus 12 cost about the same as this phone when new,
         | correct?
        
       | solatic wrote:
       | Is there new hardware in the phone for the forehead thermometer?
       | Any chance this comes to earlier models?
        
         | Ayesh wrote:
         | Yes it's new hardware. Pixel 8 also had it.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | Clicking on "Explore the Thermometer app" in the Pixel 9 Pro
           | page leads to ... a Pixel 8 Pro page.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | Is it approved for forehead use now? My recollection is it was
         | a gimmicky thing because they could not add human temperature
         | functionality without some kind of regulatory thing (FDA?).
        
       | Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
       | I was waiting for this to figure out if i want this phone. The
       | answer is, I'm not willing to pay $1000 CAD.
       | 
       | I would like a phone with 7 years of updates, that's the reality.
       | This is so annoying because I would go to LineageOS since it
       | keeps getting updates, contrary to manufacturers roms.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | If those are your only criteria, the Pixel 8a is $400 and has
         | guaranteed updates until May 2031 (same 7 years, but released
         | three months ago).
        
           | Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote:
           | My real criterias would be way more, but if I put all of them
           | together, the answer is there is nothing.
           | 
           | I ABSOLUTELY need to be able to use a glass screen protector,
           | because my phone falls a lot, so I'm really concerned about
           | the fingerprint reader on the screen.
           | 
           | One criteria I won't be able to satisfy is: I like
           | fingerprinting on the back. I don't think there are recent
           | phones with that feature at all.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | The upcoming 9a is where Google has to make some tough
           | business decisions whether it's going to have all the AI
           | features of the main line, at half the price.
           | 
           | It's rumored that Apple's new SE will have the full suite of
           | Apple AI features, and that might put some pressure on Google
           | to match.
        
         | bjoli wrote:
         | I got a _spectacular_ deal on the pixel 8 when I called to
         | complain on my phone plan, otherwise I would have still used a
         | Motorola.
         | 
         | The phone was $200, and I got a pixel watch 2 LTE as well that
         | I flipped for $250. The only thing I had to do was keep using
         | the phone plan I have used for 8 years for another year.
        
       | jerojero wrote:
       | I like that there's a smaller "pro" model.
       | 
       | The Fold 2, sorry Pixel 9 Pro Fold, is the most interesting one
       | for me but the price is too high. I've been waiting for a while
       | for these foldables to go down in price but they still haven't.
       | 
       | Other than that, it's all about the "AI". Which I don't have much
       | interest in, plus, didn't they already said last year that the
       | Pixel 8 was "all about AI". At this point, there's no use in
       | buying a phone to have these features when the following year
       | your phone that's supposedly made with AI in mind is phased for
       | for a new phone that this time around for real is the one that's
       | "made for AI".
       | 
       | Eh.
        
       | JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote:
       | I'm still bitter about my last Pixel with the stuttering display
       | (no real-time thread for the graphics), the settings all over the
       | place (I counted 4 different addresses for my home, and 1 was
       | deeply hidden in their assistant), and the debug strings in
       | UPPER_SNAKE_CASE in the Google apps, which is unacceptable for a
       | device that is sold to everyone.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | My Pixel 5 is an amazing device, but it's slowly falling apart,
         | software-wise. Bugs bugs and more bugs! It's also no longer
         | getting software updates, and its successors have a laundry
         | list of issues.
         | 
         | The alternative is Samsung, the company that doesn't understand
         | privacy nor consent, or Apple, whose phones lack uBlock
         | support.
        
           | otachack wrote:
           | Hold strong! I replaced my 5's battery about a year ago after
           | it started bloating. I usually draw the line though when
           | security updates cease. Staying with the Pixel line is easier
           | but I'm trying to divest from Google in general and moving to
           | a different phone would be a big step.
        
           | coder543 wrote:
           | AdGuard has worked well enough on Safari on iOS for years
           | now.
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | It does nothing for cookie banners
        
               | coder543 wrote:
               | Nothing? AdGuard offers a "cookie notices" filter, which
               | is presumably designed to remove cookie banners. I
               | haven't tried turning it on.
        
           | Modified3019 wrote:
           | Kagi's Orion browser for iOS actually supports ublock and
           | other browser extensions.
           | 
           | It's a bit wonky and on iPhones there's a lack of
           | configurability, for example there's no way that I know of to
           | bring up a dialog to block elements in ublock, or adjust the
           | settings in dark reader, but they do seem to work well enough
           | in their default flavor.
           | 
           | The reading list functionality is less ergonomic, but
           | tabs/pages are more ergonomic imo, and it seems to work
           | better with webpages that safari spins it's wheels on.
           | 
           | Unfortunately it doesn't help the forced zoom that Apple
           | forces on everything when a text box is loaded, that is then
           | compounded when giving it focus with a cursor for writing
           | (yes, I've already tried all system systems that could
           | potentially disable that. Nothing works, Apple's text input
           | continues to be straight up burning garbage on multiple
           | levels)
           | 
           | I'd say it's worth trying, and sending feedback to.
        
           | dudeofawesome wrote:
           | If uBlock is the only thing holding you back from an iPhone,
           | you can use the Orion browser, which can install many Chrome
           | extensions (including uBlock Origin)
        
             | NotSammyHagar wrote:
             | how do we know the orion browser isn't somehow spying on
             | you? I want an opensource browser, that's where I do so
             | much financial and other transactions (as well as like bank
             | company apps).
             | 
             | That browser should be something like a fully opensource
             | de-googled chrome browser, but it doesn't seem to exist on
             | mobile.
        
               | freediver wrote:
               | 1. It is a zero telemetry browser
               | 
               | 2. It is a browser with a users paying for it business
               | model
               | 
               | These mean that it is easy to verify any 'spying', and
               | that there is no incentive to do that.
        
               | IX-103 wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
           | debo_ wrote:
           | I had similar issues with my pixel 3a about three years ago,
           | and I switched over to Pixel Experience. This got me up to
           | Android 13, and everything just works great to this day. I'm
           | pretty sure there won't be an Android 14+ Pixel Experience
           | build for this device, though.
        
           | ranza wrote:
           | Wait, you can install uBlock on chrome mobile?
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | You can install it on Firefox for Android. It's one of the
             | main reasons I'm on Android.
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | You can install all kinds of extensions on Firefox on
             | Android my friend. Firefox for Android is one of the killer
             | apps now IMHO. Termux, Tasker, KDE Connect, and NetGuard
             | are some others.
        
           | buu700 wrote:
           | FWIW, I use a Pixel 8 with an aramid fiber case (Thinborne),
           | and it's pretty much a strict upgrade over the Pixel 5. Only
           | real downside is that it's ~1.6mm thicker than a caseless
           | Pixel 5, but on the other hand the added protection of a case
           | comes in handy.
        
             | spondylosaurus wrote:
             | Does the case make the candybar-style camera feel less
             | bulky? I'm in the market for a new phone, and the Pixel
             | form factor is really nice, but the protruding camera makes
             | me hesitate.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | Another alternative is GNU/Linux phones.
        
         | TwentyPosts wrote:
         | Which Pixel was that? I'm really happy with mine (7a)
        
         | alanbernstein wrote:
         | What is the problem with upper snake case? That seems like a
         | bizarre complaint to me.
        
           | tlhunter wrote:
           | I think the point is that grandma shouldn't see
           | "ERR_INVALID_USRN" instead of "Error: Invalid Username" when
           | logging into an account.
        
       | throwaway48476 wrote:
       | Am I the only one that thinks pixels have always been ugly?
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | The bulk of consumers can't even tell the difference between a
         | Pixel, Galaxy and iPhone. So, yes, probably, at least to first
         | approximation.
        
         | kingofthehill98 wrote:
         | The Nexus 4 was beautiful, IMO one of the coolest smartphones
         | ever made. It was manufactured by LG, but AFAIK Google was
         | responsible for the design.
        
           | spankalee wrote:
           | I hated the Nexus 4... it was slippery and broke waaaay to
           | easily.
           | 
           | I think the Moto X with the wood back was one of the coolest
           | looking phones ever though.
        
         | spankalee wrote:
         | I think the Pixel 1, 4, and 7 are very nice looking. This one
         | too.
        
       | zzleeper wrote:
       | I'm still salty about my Pixel 8 dying out because of the "green
       | screen" bug (basically, screen just progressively turns greener
       | until it stops working). Very common according to reddit, and the
       | ubreakitifixit guy acknowledged it's a common problem as well.
       | 
       | My Pixel 5a also had some shenanigans and my dad's pixel 6 as
       | well
       | 
       | No idea why they don't do proper Q&A. Looks like a good phone but
       | yet fails in ways my work iphone never has.
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | It's still a running theme that their in-display fingerprint
         | readers are uniquely terrible for many people, even 3 (now 4)
         | generations after they started using them instead of rear-
         | mounted capacitive sensors. I don't know why they struggle so
         | much with that compared to every other manufacturer using
         | exactly the same sensors from the same handful of suppliers.
        
           | TwentyPosts wrote:
           | I had some issues with this very early when I got mine, but I
           | think this went away completely. I feel like this was a
           | software issue, and is now fixed (well, at least part of it).
        
           | eitally wrote:
           | I don't think these anecdotes (yours or the guy above with
           | the green screen issue) are useful.
           | 
           | Fwiw, I haven't had either issue with my P8 Pro and it's
           | definitely the best phone I've ever used, both on Android 14
           | and running the Android 15 betas.
        
             | oezi wrote:
             | These anecdotes are useful to highlight the low quality of
             | Google devices. Certainly case reports cannot replace
             | defect rates and other meaningful statistics, but if
             | manufacturers are deaf about the issues then it doesn't
             | bode well for instance for security related issues.
             | 
             | I had similar bad issues with the fingerprint tech and
             | would assume that the issue has at least 20% prevalence
             | among the affected Pixel models.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | I held on to my Pixel 5a for as long as I could, primarily
           | for that rear-mounted fingerprint reader. Such a wonderful
           | implementation. Fast, accurate, and fingers just fell
           | naturally into place when picking it up. I'm still dreaming
           | that someday they'll return to that.
        
         | goosedragons wrote:
         | I noticed this morning my 7a back adhesive has weakened
         | already. Guess it ain't water resistant anymore and it's barely
         | over a year old.
        
         | nfriend wrote:
         | I had this exact issue on my Pixel 6 Pro! I thought it was done
         | for but it seems to have recovered over the last few months and
         | I don't see it anymore.
        
       | retskrad wrote:
       | Most people, from a person on welfare to all celebrities and
       | almost all CEO's, including Elon Musk, use iPhones. The Pixel and
       | Android in general is simply not cool like the iPhone. Google has
       | been making their own phones for over 10 years now and they've
       | barely made a dent. What's Google's goal here?
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | Their objective is simple, get the hardware in place, so they
         | can force-feed Google Search, YouTube and Google Gemini.
         | 
         | Yes it's true, iPhone are popular, but it's a US-centric
         | answer, because most of the rest of the world runs Android
         | (Android has a 70.69% market share worldwide).
         | 
         | So Google has a really valid plan there.
         | 
         | Google claims their target is the "next billion people".
         | 
         | Also iPhones are very expensive, just relatively less expensive
         | in the US (due to wages, low taxes, less intermediaries, etc).
         | 
         | Even a poor US citizen is often some sort of rich citizen in
         | other parts of the world.
         | 
         | Of course, there are exceptions, for example, Kim Jong Un uses
         | iPhone and MacBook Pro.
        
         | jensensbutton wrote:
         | What kind of low budget commentary is this? Why put it on HN?
         | What's _your_ goal here?
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | USA is not the only market for pixel phones. In places with
         | higher concentration of Android users, there's a premium market
         | that the pixel fits into.
        
         | meiraleal wrote:
         | maybe use it to have a controlled product in the market to test
         | Android? I had one Google Pixel 8 and couldn't regret more. It
         | broke (my mistake) so I'm already free of it.
        
         | deadbunny wrote:
         | The USA is not the World.
         | 
         | https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | > Most people...
         | 
         | You know what they say about making up statistics...
        
         | impulser_ wrote:
         | Samsung, which uses Android, is the most popular phone brand in
         | the world. Google doesn't need Pixel too be as sucessful as
         | iPhone because Android dominates the iPhone and come pre
         | installed with multiple Google products which is where the
         | money is made for Google.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | Who the hell cares what is considered "cool"? I use the phone
         | that's best for me, I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks
         | of it.
        
       | awill wrote:
       | Remember when Google used to do live benchmarks showing it beat
       | the iPhone (and even the iPad). Those were the days. Now Tensor
       | is bottom of the pack for high-end phones.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | Remember when average people cared about benchmarks? Because I
         | don't.
        
           | awill wrote:
           | There's a reason Apple is doing so way. The A and M chips are
           | a huge reason for that. So sure, benchmarks don't matter, but
           | performance does, and Tensor is way behind.
        
       | nightski wrote:
       | It's so weird to me that an advertising company would sell a
       | phone. It feels so dystopian.
        
         | electriclove wrote:
         | Did you also feel this way when Amazon and Facebook/Meta were
         | making (or close to making) phones?
        
           | nightski wrote:
           | Yes, why would I not? I don't buy computing devices from any
           | of them... Google phones are straight up a data harvesting
           | device for Google lol.
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | You should be happy. If Google didn't produce Android*, we
         | would only have a single phone operating system and thus only a
         | single provider of phones.
         | 
         | *And why produce Android without also producing a showcase
         | phone?
        
       | appel wrote:
       | Google's trade-in estimates for the P9 Pro:
       | 
       | Pixel Fold (256/512): $760
       | 
       | Pixel 8 Pro (128/256/512/1TB): $699
       | 
       | Pixel 8 (128/256): $490
       | 
       | Pixel 7a: $300
       | 
       | Pixel 7 Pro (128/256/512): $540
       | 
       | Pixel 7 (128/256): $360
       | 
       | Edit: there's a complete overview of all trade in estimates in
       | this post: https://slickdeals.net/f/17689866-buy-pixel-9-pro-or-
       | pixel-9...
        
         | eitally wrote:
         | I have a P8Pro and it may well be worth the money to trade it
         | in, especially to get a slightly more manageable sized phone.
        
           | appel wrote:
           | Yeah, that sounds perfect. To go from my 256GB P8 to a 256GB
           | P9 Pro would cost me about $610 + 10% tax after trade-in
           | which I don't think I'll have the stomach for.
        
         | E39M5S62 wrote:
         | If you're a Google Fi member, they have a nice discount on the
         | price of the phone - but the trade-in value of your existing
         | phone looks to be halved. I can get the Pixel 9 Pro XL with
         | 256GB of storage for $750, but I only get $150 towards my
         | Galaxy S22+.
        
         | scottlamb wrote:
         | Not bad, really. My Pixel 6 was being flaky a month ago (not
         | playing sounds reliably), and I needed to fix it right then, so
         | I bought a Pixel 8 from Best Buy for $549 and should be getting
         | $220 back (described as $70 valued price + $150 promotional)
         | for trading in my Pixel 6. If you consider the $70 as the true
         | value of my flaky Pixel 6, you could say I only paid $399 (plus
         | tax) for the Pixel 8, and now Google's offering me $490 for it
         | if I buy a Pixel 9.
         | 
         | Even so I'm not sure the Pixel 8 -> Pixel 9 upgrade is worth
         | $799 - $490 = $309 (plus tax) to me when the Pixel 8 is brand
         | new and working well.
        
       | spankalee wrote:
       | I'm very happy to see the good Pro camera setup in the smaller
       | size. I've always gotten the non-pro Pixel, but missed the better
       | camera. I might upgrade my Pixel 7 just because of this.
        
       | burkaman wrote:
       | I've never seen a temperature sensor on a phone before, I thought
       | that was kind of cool. Sounds like it doesn't really work though:
       | https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/google-pixel-8-pro-the...
        
         | praisewhitey wrote:
         | >when done correctly, the Pixel 8 Pro's temperature readings
         | are very accurate. Clinical trials revealed that the Pixel 8
         | Pro could successfully calculate body temperatures between
         | 96.9degF and 104degF to within a margin of error of +-0.54degF.
         | 
         | https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/google-explains-pixel-...
        
         | cryptoz wrote:
         | Samsung Galaxy S4 had one a decade ago. Also had a humidity
         | sensor! A true weather station (barometer and light sensor
         | too!)
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | That's ... not the kind of temperature sensor they are
           | referring to.
        
         | nogridbag wrote:
         | The "human body measurement" test in that article seems flawed.
         | When you launch the Thermometer app, there's only two buttons:
         | Object temperature and Body temperature.
         | 
         | So I'm not sure why the author tried to measure body
         | temperature by using "Object temperature" mode with "default"
         | setting and measuring the temperature under the tongue. The
         | Body Temperature test has always been accurate for me and
         | matches my higher end forehead thermometer.
        
           | Latty wrote:
           | Could be the article is written by someone outside the US. If
           | you aren't in the US (I gather--at least in the UK I can
           | speak to personally), the app just doesn't offer body
           | temperature at all because they haven't bothered to get it
           | certified for medical use.
           | 
           | (You can work around this by spoofing your location, but it's
           | not obvious to do.)
        
           | burkaman wrote:
           | Looks like the body temperature update came out a couple
           | months after that article was written, so I guess it works
           | better now. Very cool, I would love to have that on a phone.
        
         | ponector wrote:
         | Some Android phones have an IR camera so you can see the
         | temperature of surroundings!
        
       | stonethrowaway wrote:
       | Where did the "{our, the} most {adj} yet" marketing thing come
       | from? I remember apple using it for a long time. Did everyone
       | just decide to copy it? It sounds so lame to see it during every
       | tech product announcement.
        
         | frankhorrigan wrote:
         | Our most derivative advertisement yet.
        
       | Veuxdo wrote:
       | Very telling that the first two pictures are of the camera
       | lenses. Is that where most of the $999 price tag is going?
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | Holy shit, they have moved the design in the right direction,
         | but it still looks awful. Maybe not the ugliest phone on the
         | market, but still bears the hallmark of designed by an
         | engineer. Hire a friggin industrial designer or smack the
         | current one in the head by a frying pan until something cool
         | pops up.
        
       | georgeecollins wrote:
       | It blows me away that people will spend $1k for a phone when
       | there are good options for $500 or less. I will grant that
       | Google's phone is probably the best. But in my experience the
       | difference in quality does not correlate to the difference in
       | price. Apple has a monopoly and they set price expectations.
       | 
       | Also, I think buyers think if you have a cheaper phone strangers
       | may think you are poor. Personally I want people to think I am
       | poorer than I am.
        
         | grogenaut wrote:
         | what are your favorite $500 or less options
        
           | jph wrote:
           | Google Pixel 8a is a great phone IMHO. Refurbished ones are
           | available.
        
             | kelleyk wrote:
             | It is! If you also need service, Google Fi has had a
             | promotion for a while that gives you the $500 purchase
             | price back over 24 monthly bills.
             | 
             | In fact, they also have a promotion right now where you can
             | get $800 back on either the Pixel 9 or 9 Pro, spread over
             | 24 months; that makes the 9 free and the 9 Pro only $200.
        
           | amyjess wrote:
           | Not GP, but I just got a Sony Xperia 10 VI, and I'm loving it
           | so far.
        
             | bpye wrote:
             | Sony seem to be abandoning the NA market which is kind of
             | unfortunate. Their new Xperia 1 VI isn't available in
             | either the US or Canada.
        
           | setgree wrote:
           | iphone se 2022 is $429
        
             | jablala wrote:
             | Hoping the SE 4 in the new year will be sub $500/PS500.
        
               | nordsieck wrote:
               | I got the SE 2 used, a year after it came out for a
               | serious discount[1]. If that's something you're
               | comfortable with, you can get a really good deal if you
               | pay attention to what's posted on FB Marketplace.
               | 
               | More than anything, I'm most impressed by Apple's OS
               | support. I'm pretty convinced that SE phones are some of
               | the best deals in the industry if you keep them until
               | they run out of support. They have the same guts (minus
               | cameras) as tier 1 flagship phones. Apple is a bit tight
               | with ram, but the processor is faster than any Android
               | phone.
               | 
               | And the support - 7 years is standard right now, and it
               | could very well go longer.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | 1. I think I paid $150 for it. It has a small crack in
               | the screen, but just the part that's over the chin, not
               | anything that affects the display. If I wanted a pristine
               | phone, I'm sure I could have found one for a bit more.
               | But after several years, I'm happy with my decision.
        
               | jablala wrote:
               | That's a cracking result! I'll definitely keep an eye out
               | and hopefully the second hand market is healthy.
               | 
               | I think the SE never really turned any heads from the
               | flagship causing the second hand market to be lively.
               | With these new touted SEs, they're looking to be as good
               | as iPhone 14 (maybe pros) which has a very wide reach.
        
               | setgree wrote:
               | ditto, I bought a 2020 SE refurbished for <$200 and it's
               | been totally fine. If it were better, I'd be using it
               | more, which I don't want.
        
           | anonymoushn wrote:
           | My iPhone SE is $429 apparently.
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | It's crazy where phones are at now. My $160 Motorola phone
           | has 8GB of ram
           | 
           | The camera is terrible though photos upon closer inspection
           | appear smeared/blurry. My older Motorola which I paid more
           | for has a better camera.
        
             | RachelF wrote:
             | Yeah, I have a Moto G84 12GB RAM for $180 - and it has
             | features that these Pixels do not have:
             | 
             | - SD Card up to 1TB
             | 
             | - 3.5mm headphone jack
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | - Unlockable bootloader?
        
           | wilsonnb3 wrote:
           | You can get flagship Android phones for $500 or less if you
           | are a bit patient and have a good carrier.
           | 
           | I just ordered a Galaxy S24+ from Google Fi for $450 and it's
           | a better phone than the $1100 pixel 9 pro XL imo.
           | 
           | 6 months from now and on days like Black Friday you'll be
           | able to get the pixel 9 for less than $500.
        
             | otterley wrote:
             | Are you including the extra $50/mo you pay your carrier for
             | this privilege? There ain't no such thing as a free lunch;
             | you can either pay up front or pay over time (and often
             | more than you would otherwise).
        
               | wilsonnb3 wrote:
               | The only thing I have to do is keep using the phone for
               | 120 days. Monthly price for service is $20 plus $10 for
               | each gig of data, unchanged by their phone price
               | promotions.
               | 
               | Don't even have to pay a fee to use a cellular
               | smartwatch, as long as it is made by Google or Samsung.
        
           | cvhc wrote:
           | I have been trading in my phone every year to get the new
           | Samsung S2x (now S24) model since S21. There were always new
           | model deals plus some regular cashback. I ended up paying
           | <200 USD every year.
           | 
           | It's like a manual phone upgrade plan. Not sure how long it
           | could last. Last year the Google Fi deal wasn't as good and I
           | almost missed the budget target.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | OP here- my last two phones have been Moto G Power. I think
           | the first one only cost $200! I value battery life and
           | simplicity. As an Apple shareholder I prefer you buy an
           | iPhone.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | I have a 5G Stylus rn, it's totally fine except I ruined
             | the camera 3 days in so it takes TNG soft focus photos...
             | love the G Power line, battery for days is not to be
             | underappreciated
        
           | losvedir wrote:
           | I bought a "renewed" iPhone 11 from Amazon a month ago for
           | $230 and have been seriously impressed with it.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | I have S21 Ultra and bought it refurbished for less than $500
         | few years ago.
         | 
         | I see no reason why should I buy new phone. Seems like all
         | those new features are just gimmicks.
         | 
         | I would probably consider buying a new one if it had better
         | video recording, but this Pixel only has 4k at 60Hz which
         | wasn't impressive two years or so ago.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | My cheap Android phone is in a cheap black case, nobody can
         | tell how poor I'm not.
        
           | rvnx wrote:
           | The lack of iMessage blue-bubble is a good tell. Instantly
           | makes you lose dates with gold diggers.
        
             | lupusreal wrote:
             | That's a feature. Gets the vapid idiots to select
             | themselves out of your life.
        
         | nly wrote:
         | My phone (PS500/$500) was released in Nov 2017, bought in Feb
         | 2018, and it's still just fine. Only recently have I been
         | noticing the battery life is getting a bit pathetic.
         | 
         | Spending PS500 on a new one hasn't really entered my thoughts.
         | The last time I went shopping for an (Android) phone with and
         | for my girlfriend it was a nightmare - so many absolutely shit
         | giant phones that don't feel right in the hand
        
           | Liquix wrote:
           | ifixit has exclusive deals with some manufacturers where you
           | can get an OEM replacement battery + tools for ~$30-50. can
           | easily double the lifespan of a well-maintained device
        
             | nly wrote:
             | Recently did that with my laptop. Replaced the battery and
             | fans and reapplied thermal paste to the processor for
             | PS100.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | I splurged for one of the flip phones not long ago. Thought I
         | qualified for a discount that I evidently didn't qualify for.
         | Oops.
         | 
         | That said, I think it was 600ish. So, yeah, I don't know that I
         | understand the high end market. At all.
        
         | the_reformation wrote:
         | iPhones are 10x better than $500 Androids, so a steal at 2x the
         | price.
        
         | jdgoesmarching wrote:
         | People use their phones probably more than any other single
         | item besides their home and bed. It's not really that crazy,
         | especially if you factor in camera upgrades for people that
         | care about it.
        
           | matthewfcarlson wrote:
           | In terms of percentage of my day that I spent using X, my
           | smartphone ranks pretty highly. More so than my TV, car, etc
           | that are high budget items that you can spend a lot on.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | I think it's true for a lot of people, but not for
             | everyone. There's not much my phone does for me that a
             | laptop doesn't do better, and I probably use some form of
             | desktop/laptop about 10X the amount of time I use my phone.
             | Sometimes I forget where my (8 year old) phone is for days,
             | and life trucks on, but I probably sit in front of a
             | computer for hours a day and that's just for work. I guess
             | I'm turning into an outlier.
             | 
             | I personally could not even fathom spending $500 on a
             | telephone let alone $1000. It's just not an important
             | enough gadget in my life.
        
               | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
               | Fewer and fewer people own any computing device other
               | than a phone.
        
               | sandspar wrote:
               | iPad is the new laptop.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | For what?
               | 
               | Because sure as hell it's not a working machine.
        
               | mindslight wrote:
               | Should we be celebrating this, or even talking about it
               | as if it's remotely sensible? Even putting aside that
               | mobile software is designed to undermine your personal
               | interests, getting a laptop that's good for a decade (or
               | more) and then churning your phone less often is likely a
               | win on straight device cost.
        
               | jdgoesmarching wrote:
               | Who defines sensible? For most people, a phone is a far
               | more sensible purchase than a laptop. How many sub-$500
               | laptops have cellular modems? How many sub-$200? How much
               | of the technology that people realistically use day-to-
               | day requires a laptop?
               | 
               | I'd even question your premise that phones churn more
               | frequently than laptops, especially at the budget end.
        
               | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
               | More and more of societal services "require" a
               | smartphone. I went to a baseball game where it seemed
               | like it was required to install their ticket app (might
               | have been an offline workflow available).
               | 
               | For someone with a limited budget, a phone seems wildly
               | more valuable than a laptop.
        
               | mindslight wrote:
               | The point of my comment was to talk about what is
               | sensible?
               | 
               | Your comment just seems needlessly dichotomous. I'm
               | talking about having multiple devices, such that you
               | aren't beholden to any single one. Nobody "requires" a
               | laptop, just like nobody actually "requires" a phone. But
               | if you're using up all your buy-stuff-online time looking
               | through a tiny screen and tapping out search terms like
               | Morse code, rather than being able to comfortably compare
               | skus/stores far and wide, it's likely that you're
               | drastically overpaying. I'm willing to believe this is a
               | trap many people fall into (eg why else is Amazon always
               | pushing Subscribe and "Save"), but we shouldn't be
               | normalizing it as if it's effective rather than
               | pathological and extractionary (cf Vimes's Boots).
               | 
               | And sure, the same trash-treadmill dynamic exists in the
               | low end new laptop market with poor hardware and poor
               | software (eg MSWin). But this is kind of a weird
               | Schrodinger's argument in a thread about a phone that
               | costs _$1,000_ - someone who doesn 't have enough
               | resources to buy anything but a phone, yet that one
               | locked-down user-disempowering device is sooo critical
               | that it's also reasonable to spend an outsized amount of
               | money on the latest flagship. My larger point still
               | stands about the longevity of good product choices, but
               | they require research and actualization - the kind better
               | done from a laptop or desktop rather than a pocket
               | porthole.
        
               | forrestthewoods wrote:
               | > I think it's true for a lot of people, but not for
               | everyone.
               | 
               | This is not a helpful comment.
               | 
               | No one argued it was true for everyone!
               | 
               | > I personally could not even fathom spending $500 on a
               | telephone let alone $1000. It's just not an important
               | enough gadget in my life.
               | 
               | This is also not helpful.
               | 
               | Can you imagine why someone else might spend $1000 on a
               | phone? If the answer is no you have a shockingly poor
               | ability to empathize and see things from a different
               | perspective.
               | 
               | I totally understand why some people spend $1500 on a new
               | phone. And I also understand why some people want to
               | spend the bare minimum! These perspectives are not
               | difficult to grasp.
        
               | sandspar wrote:
               | Here we have OP doing an "I have better money sense than
               | you" brag followed by a guy doing an "I have better
               | empathy than you" brag. (Followed by me doing an "I'm
               | more savvy than you" brag.)
        
               | jdgoesmarching wrote:
               | Followed by the "I have outlined how a typical
               | conversation on this platform will play out" guy
        
               | forrestthewoods wrote:
               | lol, made me chuckle.
               | 
               | It's a pet peeve of mine how often programmers argue from
               | their niche perspective without even attempting to think
               | of things from a broader or different perspective. It's
               | especially annoying when it goes from "people do X" to
               | "well I do Y so nyah!".
               | 
               | It's not hard or difficult, you just have to try!
        
               | sandspar wrote:
               | Does it get easier over time? I asked the most socially
               | adept person I know about how she's so good with people.
               | She said, "I just picture myself in their shoes." She
               | made it sound easy, so I tried it, and phew! It's tough!
               | It made me wonder whether part of the reason why
               | perspective-taking is easy for her is because she's
               | practiced it so much.
        
               | ghshephard wrote:
               | There's a very large community of people in which their
               | smartphone might be the _only_ luxury purchase they make
               | (I 'm pretty close to that).
               | 
               | Now that we no longer upgrade every second year (or, in
               | fact, every third year) and given I usually get 50% of
               | the cost back by sending the old phone in, spending
               | $1500/phone means that I'm typically amortizing a $750
               | charge over 4 years - or $15/month for the _only_ luxury
               | item I own. I 'm probably more concerned about the
               | $85/month AT&T bill than the $15/month cost for the
               | actual phone.
               | 
               | Never having to even think about storage, like literally
               | _zero_ concerns about how much I download is one reason I
               | always grab the high-end model (now around 1TB)
               | 
               | Also - there are lots of weeks, (in fact, sometimes a
               | month) that my mother doesn't touch her (pretty high end,
               | nice 4K monitor) computer system - but I doubt there has
               | ever been a single _hour_ that she wasn 't using her
               | phone. The Phone, for many, has become the new computer.
               | 
               | And, with LLMs becoming pervasive, the new knowledge-
               | system. (I can go many days without touching google - but
               | I hit up some combination of Claude/ChatGPT pretty 7-10
               | times/day) I can already envision the day in which you
               | will be able to run an LLM _on your phone_ - but the H /W
               | specs for that thing will likely be insane and I have a
               | hard time seeing how the first releases of (reasonable
               | speed, reasonable model -I'm aware you can do it today) -
               | in a 2-3 years from now that can run an LLM will go for
               | less than $2000-$2500.
               | 
               | And I will be standing at the front of that line begging
               | them to take my money. Entirely new device at that point.
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | Okay, but just because you use something a lot doesn't mean
             | you need to spend huge money on it.
             | 
             | That's the argument I don't understand.
             | 
             | Like, Taxi drivers don't buy the most luxurious and
             | comfortable car you can think of because they drive it all
             | day, they get Toyotas and sometimes Teslas where EV support
             | is decent.
        
               | yuppiepuppie wrote:
               | Yeah but when you get into the taxi comparison, it's
               | based on roi more than anything.
               | 
               | For a phone, it's purely esthetic, ergonomic and user
               | friendliness that most people are buying them. Not
               | usually roi based decision.
        
               | dash2 wrote:
               | If you use it for 3 years, $1000 is about a dollar a day.
               | Does a better phone generate that much value each day -
               | about 1/5 of a cappucino? Probably.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | By which metric generates more value?
               | 
               | It answers better on HN? Gives you more value answering
               | messages or watching YouTube?
               | 
               | Which far fetched edge case scenario do you need to
               | justify the very small diminishing returns between a high
               | end and premium phone?
        
               | jfdbcv wrote:
               | Personally I inject probes into my brain to measure the
               | exact dopamine response every time I need to make a new
               | purchase
               | 
               | ...idk I think people just like premium phones, it's not
               | that deep
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | One stat that takes me out of my bubble on this one is we are
           | closing in on 2/3 of website visits being done via mobile
           | devices. I.e. it's not necessarily the ultra tech focused
           | folks that make up high end mobile user base, it's people
           | using phones constantly as their primary device that are
           | often spending a grand on them.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | That's a really good point! I spend 10x time in front of a
           | computer as a phone and I don't think twice about buying
           | Alienware or Razer so that makes more sense to me.
        
           | cdrini wrote:
           | This is true, but I don't think the price translates. Most
           | folks use their phones for messaging, internet, videos,
           | camera. That's about it. And the things you do on your phone
           | don't translate to these price tags. You're not getting a
           | bunch more from a 1k phone than from a 500 phone.
           | 
           | I personally try to get flagship phones, but used a few years
           | after their release. That, and avoid upgrading my phone as
           | much as possible :P I'm jealous of Apple folks here, they
           | support their devices for eons longer than Android!
        
         | bpye wrote:
         | I don't like spending $1k on a phone, but my iPhone 11 Pro
         | lasted 4 years and the only reason I upgraded was because the
         | 15 has USB-C. It would have needed a battery upgrade otherwise
         | but modern phones do have much better longevity.
        
           | KoolKat23 wrote:
           | You'll get the same mileage out of a EUR300-EUR400 Samsung.
        
             | cyral wrote:
             | Cheap phones tend to have a lot more lag/jank than iPhones
             | (or other $1k phones)
        
               | KoolKat23 wrote:
               | Depends how cheap. Midrange phones are fine and cost half
               | the price of the equivalent iPhone.
        
             | guyzero wrote:
             | In terms of camera performance? You will not.
        
               | KoolKat23 wrote:
               | True
        
         | trilobyte wrote:
         | For most people the amortized cost of a phone over its life is
         | pretty small. If you spend $1000 on a phone and it lasts you 3
         | years, that's ~$28 a month. A lot of people spend that on
         | coffee each month. The value they get out of their smart phone
         | dwarfs most other big expenses.
        
           | skapadia wrote:
           | Rationalizing a purchase because the monthly payments are
           | small is a terrible way to approach shopping. If you don't
           | have the money to pay for it upfront, you can't afford it.
           | Full stop. People actually finance their phones, believe it
           | or not. It boggles the mind.
        
             | notaustinpowers wrote:
             | People making an average hourly don't think of things that
             | way. Paying $28/month for a phone provides much more
             | liquidity for the unexpected, when the other option is
             | spending over 25% of your months income, you're SOL if your
             | car breaks for whatever reason, or you get a flat tire, or
             | your water bill was unusually high.
        
               | rd wrote:
               | Something something cheap boot vs. expensive boot
               | something something...
        
             | advisedwang wrote:
             | They're not saying finance a phone. They're saying $1000 is
             | not that much for a device you use throughout every waking
             | hour for several years. The monthly framing helps
             | understand cost as a rate, as we experience value as a
             | rate.
        
             | drawfloat wrote:
             | OP wasn't talking about a loan payment.
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | I assume, then, of course, that you bought (or would buy)
             | your house in cash only? After all, "If you don't have the
             | money to pay for it upfront, you can't afford it. Full
             | stop."
        
           | epolanski wrote:
           | The value they get is identical they would get if they spent
           | half of it.
           | 
           | Unless, idk, you're so deep into the Apple ecosystem, e.g.
           | that it makes sense to stay in the gardened wall and lower
           | any kind of friction.
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | > The value they get is identical they would get if they
             | spent half of it.
             | 
             | I'm pretty sure that the camera on my Pixel is twice as
             | good as the OnePlus that it replaced.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | But the photos are nowhere near twice as good.
        
               | fullstop wrote:
               | Eh, they are when motion is involved.
        
           | cdrini wrote:
           | Tech is a really weird field; I think because of the high
           | salaries, a lot of people are rich without realising they're
           | rich. Tech is the "Nouveau rich". $28 a month on coffee is
           | rather large amount to spend on coffee.
        
             | asadotzler wrote:
             | No, $28 not a large amount to spend on coffee. That's a
             | McDonald's medium coffee 3.5 days a week. How is that a lot
             | to spend on coffee? That's just silly. A lot to spend on
             | coffee is $150/mo with a $5 latte at Starbucks each day and
             | that's certainly more common than the house painter getting
             | a McDonald's coffee on half his workdays.
        
         | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
         | I usually sell my $1k phone after a couple years so I end up
         | paying much less than $1k in the end, while getting a better
         | phone out of it than had I just bought the $500 phone up front.
         | 
         | It blows me away that people actually care how much other
         | people spend on something at all. Want a $50 flip phone? Cool.
         | Want a $1300 fancy fold phone? Also fine.
         | 
         | When I had my last kid we got a Snoo bassinet, $1300 or so.
         | Anyone that saw it couldn't help but inform me that their baby
         | survived in a trash bag with holes poked in it or whatever for
         | a bassinet. But I sold it 6 months later for $900, and my
         | overall $400 investment was very worth it. Thing was a miracle.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | > $400 investment
           | 
           | Why is this word used to describe "pure financial loss" so
           | often when talking about purchased luxury goods?
           | 
           | > Investment: the outlay of money usually for income or
           | profit
        
             | crdrost wrote:
             | Because the implication is that there is non-monetary
             | profit. The person is describing it not as a loss but as an
             | investment, because it was an investment in themselves and
             | their ability to sleep at night and an investment in their
             | child feeling safe and whatever other impossible-to-
             | directly-price externalities were realized as a result of
             | the monetary loss.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | I suppose the problem is that there isn't a good word for
               | this concept. I just find it interesting that, in my
               | experience, this is _only_ used in relation to luxury
               | goods.
        
               | NoboruWataya wrote:
               | > in my experience, this is only used in relation to
               | luxury goods.
               | 
               | Not really. You can also "invest" in personal
               | relationships, for example, which implies neither a
               | financial outlay nor an expectation of financial return.
               | 
               | When used in the context of purchasing consumer goods, I
               | think it is most often used in the context of goods which
               | are _expensive_ (the financial outlay) and _durable_ (ie,
               | capable of providing enjoyment--analogous to profit--for
               | a long time into the future). And of course those goods
               | are more likely to be considered  "luxury" goods.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | In the case of a relationship, maybe it could be argued
               | that you are profiting, in the currency being used: you
               | get more positive interactions out than you put in. ;)
        
               | digging wrote:
               | > this is _only_ used in relation to luxury goods.
               | 
               | It isn't. People say it in regards to quality goods of
               | all kinds - shoes, mattresses, food.
        
             | sandspar wrote:
             | Investment in x% higher likelihood of your child's safety.
        
             | winwang wrote:
             | Because the value the item brought you was worth more than
             | the money you exchanged for it. My Bose QC35s were one of
             | the best investments I've ever made, lasting many years and
             | very many loud plane rides. Or would you consider groceries
             | a "pure financial loss" as well?
        
             | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
             | So goofy that you asked this with the "usually" right there
             | in your own quote.
        
           | geodel wrote:
           | > It blows me away that people actually care how much other
           | people spend on something at all
           | 
           | Well you can dislike this fact but there is nothing seems to
           | be _blown away_ about it. Because this is such a mundane fact
           | about people.
        
           | sandspar wrote:
           | Have you looked into leasing your phone? You pay more per
           | month but always have the latest upgrade. I'm curious about
           | it too and am hoping you've done the numbers on it.
        
           | StevePerkins wrote:
           | > _It blows me away that people actually care how much other
           | people spend on something at all._
           | 
           | It's an idle discussion thread about consumer electronics.
           | Not an attack on the core of your personal identity.
        
         | preisschild wrote:
         | I have a lot of data on my smartphone I want to be secure, plus
         | I like the OLED screen for reading ebooks/watching videos and I
         | also want to make great photos.
         | 
         | Only Google Pixel devices tick those boxes, but at least you
         | can buy older gen Pixels rather cheap (Google Pixel 6 Pro with
         | similar camera setup as the Pixel 9 for example)
        
         | pinkmuffinere wrote:
         | Somewhat tangentially, your comment made me realize there can
         | be non-vain reasons to try and appear less poor than you are.
         | Of course, when you're really poor it's probably unwise to use
         | a new iPhone to achieve this deception.
        
         | dotnet00 wrote:
         | Most people spending $1k on their phone are either trading in
         | their old phone if they upgrade often, or are upgrading every
         | 2-3 years, which makes the cost not that crazy given how
         | smartphones are often essentially a part of us nowadays with
         | how much we rely on them.
        
         | PKop wrote:
         | Why would that blow you away?
         | 
         | $500 extra dollars for a better device people use everyday for
         | at least a year or more. Especially around here, many make
         | plenty of money that a $500 difference isn't that significant.
        
         | oezi wrote:
         | Since only Apple, Google and Samsung provide some realistic
         | assurance of security updates, there aren't so many options
         | left. If you don't want to spend 1k there is the Pixel 8a for
         | half that price.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Is there a new, $500 or less, phone with 256 GB of Flash, an
         | unlockabke bootloader, and good GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, or
         | LineageOS support?
         | 
         | Oddly enough I end up buying Google phones because I do not
         | wish to put up with Google's shit.
        
           | dtx1 wrote:
           | Graphene only supports pixels.
        
         | spacemanspiff01 wrote:
         | So I get pixel because of security and less software bloat,
         | along with good custom ROM support.
         | 
         | That being said, at least for me, my phone is the device I
         | spend the most time with, whether articals, emails, books,
         | podcasts etc.
         | 
         | It is at least 5 hrs a day.
         | 
         | This is probably an argument to spend less time on my phone,
         | but the will is weak.
         | 
         | But if I am spending a significant percentage of my waking life
         | interacting with this single electronic device, a price
         | difference of 500 dollars is not much, especially amortized
         | over a 3 year period.
        
         | f6v wrote:
         | You can say that about anything: cars, headphones, appliances.
         | To each their own. I can't imagine using a 500 device in place
         | of my 800 iPhone even though it would be "almost as good". I
         | can justify extra even for very small convenient features.
        
         | VirusNewbie wrote:
         | Some of it is a status symbol. I don't know any well to do tech
         | friends that buy expensive watches or jewelry, but are happy to
         | drop 1k+ on a new phone every year.
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | > It blows me away that people will spend $1k for a phone when
         | there are good options for $500 or less
         | 
         | Wait till you see how people spend $60k on a car when there are
         | perfectly good options for $30k.
         | 
         | And people also spend much more time with their phones than in
         | their cars.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | I don't disagree but.. 1) To me there is a lot more variety
           | in cars than phones. An SUV is very different then a sports
           | car or some luxury car. Phones vary a lot in OS (but people
           | don't cross shop), a little in battery and a lot in camera.
           | 
           | As a thought experiment, if you put me in a civic I will know
           | I am in a civic and not a BMW in one second. If you gave me
           | an iphone 10 or an iphone12. Or a google 8 vs google 10...
           | You get my point. Yes Android is different then iOS but
           | people are usually locked in.
           | 
           | 2) In general people spend way too much on cars, either to
           | buy capability they don't really need or can't use. Or to try
           | and say something about themselves.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | It blows me away that people will spend $500 for a phone when
         | there are good options for $150 or less. :0
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I think phones really stopped differentiating a few years ago.
         | A $200 Motorola is extremely capable and does 99% of what
         | normal people need. I bought a Moto G Power for my kid who
         | always forgets to charge it because the battery lasts 3 days.
         | That's more valuable than having 3 cameras and an AI chip.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Apple does not have a monopoly. They sell 27% of all
         | smartphones. Samsung sells 24%. Xiaomi sells 12%.
        
         | shortrounddev2 wrote:
         | A galaxy a54 is like 50% of the price of an 24 but with like
         | 80% of the specs and better battery life
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | 4k still only at 60Hz. Weak.
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | Serious case of sticker shock here.
       | 
       | My current Android phone was free from the provider in exchange
       | for buying around 3 months of service in advance. It is no speed
       | demon but certainly does all of your average phone stuff just
       | fine.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | I absolutely _refuse_ to pay for a phone; call me old-school,
         | but I am still stuck in the memory of the days when they came
         | 'free' with service contracts.
         | 
         | Me? I will happily take a slightly outdated phone with a new
         | provider/contract where I don't pay anything on top of the
         | expected monthly fee. I have 8 months left on my iPhone13 mini
         | (128GB) w/VZW and will happily change to one of the other Big
         | Threes to make it happen again.
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | A regular Verizon plan with tethering that supports the
           | "free" phones costs the same in three months for what I pay
           | for a year of service on Mint.
           | 
           | But sure, the phone was "free".
           | 
           | $2,880 for a Verizon plan with a "free" phone (3 year
           | commitment after all), $720 for three years of my current
           | Mint plan. I could spend $2k on a phone over those three
           | years and I'd still have spent less money.
        
             | garciasn wrote:
             | Based on the Mint website, it appears to be $360 up-front +
             | $360 or $720 for their 'unlimited' annual which I don't
             | know if it includes tethering. I pay ~$684 for VZW for the
             | year, for unlimited w/tethering and HBO Max + Netflix.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | Mint's unlimited is $30/mo when purchasing a year up
               | front. The only "plus" is taxes and fees. It includes
               | tethering. So even with whatever deal you've got going on
               | its still $324/yr cheaper, $972 cheaper after a three-
               | year commitment (if applicable in your case).
               | 
               | The "free" phone only applies to Unlimited Plus and
               | Unlimited Ultimate. At a single line for Plus that's
               | $80/mo. $960/yr. $2,880 over that three-year commitment.
               | 
               | But either way, I don't bother with the "unlimited"
               | plans. You're going to get de-rated after 30-40gigs
               | anyways on Verizon.
               | 
               | > Unlimited data is restricted to on-device smartphone
               | usage. After exceeding 30 GB/mo of 5G Ultra Wideband, 5G,
               | or 4G LTE mobile hotspot data, mobile hotspot data
               | reduced to speeds up to 3 Mbps when on 5G Ultra Wideband
               | and 600 Kbps when on 5G / 4G LTE for the rest of your
               | monthly billing cycle.
               | 
               | https://www.verizon.com/support/important-plan-
               | information/
               | 
               | "Unlimited" plan you're paying $80/mo for that you're
               | going to get 600Kbps if you really treat it as
               | "unlimited".
               | 
               | I personally don't even use all of my 15GB a month. I get
               | lots of people live different lifestyles, but _a lot_ of
               | people don 't need "unlimited". So really, I'm not even
               | spending $360/yr, I'm spending $240/yr. $444/yr cheaper
               | than your plan. $1,332 cheaper after three years.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | I think you misread, that throttle is for the hotspot
               | data.
               | 
               | And honestly that's a lot better than most throttles.
               | Though it seems silly they even bother to throttle 5G
               | Ultra Wideband. Are those antennas ever going to be
               | heavily loaded with how short their range is?
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | Max and Netflix _with Ads_
               | 
               | That is an important distinction. Those plans together
               | only represent a $17/month value.
               | 
               | And that value is assuming you actually watch both of
               | them regularly.
               | 
               | You would almost certainly save money using an MVNO and a
               | not-brand-new-super-pro phone.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | And I already get Max through my home ISP anyways, so
               | really only $8/mo extra value. But I wouldn't watch
               | Netflix With Ads anyways, so really $0 for me.
               | 
               | But that $80/mo plan I quoted doesn't even include the
               | streaming services. That's just the regular data plan
               | rate for a single line. Adding Max + Netflix (With Ads)
               | is another $10/mo, so _$90 /mo_ compared to the $20/mo
               | I'm paying now.
               | 
               | Note, when looking at Verizon's website, the big
               | advertized rate numbers show the per-line rate _with four
               | lines_.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | I pay $20/mo for Visible, and it works great. The average
             | phone plan with a "free" iPhone from a major carrier is
             | $100-120/mo with a minimum 3 year contract. So yeah, paying
             | for your phone yourself is always significantly cheaper.
             | You can even get a device payment plan if you want, and the
             | payment plan + phone bill will _still_ be cheaper than the
             | bundle AT &T or Verizon offers you.
        
             | ewoodrich wrote:
             | Historically I have never used carrier commitments and paid
             | for phones outright but did it for the first time earlier
             | this year with a targeted offer to get a iPhone 15 Pro from
             | Verizon for basically a couple hundred bucks in taxes.
             | Mostly because it felt like I was getting worst of both
             | worlds paying for a single line Verizon post paid plan
             | without taking advantage of any upgrade offers after my
             | BYOD deal expired.
             | 
             | But I'm now regretting it especially because I'm getting
             | tired of constantly missing notifications on my iPhone
             | being so used to persistent notification indicators on
             | Android. Planning to use T-Mobile to buy me out of my
             | device payment plan once I get around to 800 dollars owned
             | on my 15 Pro because being I hate how I'm locked in to a
             | premium plan I don't come close to making full use of. I
             | still have an unlocked S23 Ultra I can switch back to as my
             | main phone if I decide to.
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | I pay $120 AUD a year at the supermarket for a prepaid sim.
        
           | dingaling wrote:
           | Conversely, maybe it's a European thing, but I couldn't
           | imagine having my phone in thrall to one provider. So I buy a
           | phone and then pick whichever monthly-contract provider is
           | offering the best package at that moment.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | This is literally still how it works. Instead of a contract
           | you have a device payment plan where you're defacto locked
           | into the carrier because if you leave you owe the balance on
           | your smartphone.
           | 
           | The trade-in and switching deals are all done as bill credits
           | so that you are locked in for 2 or 3 years.
           | 
           | If you are using a big three cell carriers with the unlimited
           | postpaid plans and aren't getting a brand new latest model
           | Pro phone for free you are throwing your money out the
           | window, because you're still paying for the phone in your
           | higher plan price.
           | 
           | You will almost certainly save money if you buy the device
           | yourself and use an MVNO instead of the big three postpaid
           | plans. Especially if you buy the device used after it
           | depreciates for a year or two.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | > I will happily take a slightly outdated phone with a new
           | provider/contract where I don't pay anything on top of the
           | expected monthly fee.
           | 
           | At least for Android, the main issue you'll face is the lack
           | of Android updates. Which eventually leads to apps no longer
           | working because they don't support your Android version.
           | 
           | My phone (2017) still runs everything fast, but I can't
           | install several apps merely because they don't claim to
           | support my old Android version. I have to go online and find
           | apks of the app's version that last supported my Android
           | version.
        
           | eloisant wrote:
           | It's the other way around for me. I refuse to get a phone
           | from my carrier.
           | 
           | Phones "free" with a contract are just disguised loans. The
           | loan is hidden in your monthly sub, which is why you have to
           | be locked from anywhere from 1 to 2 years.
           | 
           | Also I don't want to have carrier bloatware on my phones, and
           | I don't want my phones to be locked to a carrier.
           | 
           | I pay my carrier only for the network. I pay for my phones.
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | How is a phone different to a TV or other electronic device?
           | Also, providers are giant assholes, one of the only good
           | things about apple and google becoming a duopoly and their
           | gripes getting tighter is that they can say f** you to
           | providers that just install bloatware on our devices with no
           | concern for privacy, or even basic functionality.
        
         | joshl32532 wrote:
         | Yeah, iPhone/Galaxy Sxx price without the same reliability.
         | 
         | You're crazy if you spend $1k for Pixel's build quality.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | I have only two reasons to buy a high end phone (which I buy
         | used, of course):
         | 
         | 1. Taking good photos. I like my DSLR, but for memories a phone
         | is handier. And cheap phones take crappy photos in low light
         | (i.e. indoor) conditions. I don't want to look at family photos
         | 20 years from now and say "Boy, I wish I paid $200 extra".
         | 
         | 2. Lasting longer. My current phone was launched in 2017
         | (bought in 2019). It had a powerful CPU and a lot of RAM. It's
         | still running fine.
        
       | rareitem wrote:
       | Among Us
        
         | TwentyPosts wrote:
         | Thank you
        
       | jijji wrote:
       | it doesn't even say the CPU speed on their spec sheet....whats
       | the speed of the CPU? how many cores?
        
         | canucker2016 wrote:
         | That's how you know that they're not proud of the CPU specs.
         | 
         | They went with the Samsung foundry so they could get a bespoke
         | CPU design because Qualcomm doesn't have time for that type of
         | stuff. Turns out that the Samsung ARM cores aren't as
         | performant as the Qualcomm/Apple ARM cores. But at least Google
         | has these Tensor thingies...
         | 
         | [edit] in Dave2D's video about the Pixel 9 Pro XL,
         | https://youtu.be/67hVZOJDFxQ?t=323 , he shows a Geekbench
         | comparison of recent Android CPUs, the new Tensor G4 is still
         | slower in multithread GeekBench than SnapDragon 8 Gen2 & Gen3.
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | How reliable is the Pixel fold? I jumped ship from Nexus/Pixel in
       | 2019, and the only thing that could bring me back to Pixel would
       | be the larger screen of the fold. But my personal experience with
       | Nexus/Pixel quality 2010-2019 is pretty bad, and adding in the
       | folding screen makes me think getting one is a Bad Idea.
       | 
       | Sadly, due to my employer, only Apple and Google are options, so
       | none of the other folding phones are options. I wish Apple would
       | do a fold..
        
       | nblgbg wrote:
       | One of the big problems with Pixel phones is their lack of
       | thorough testing. You upgrade and suddenly you encounter strange
       | Bluetooth issues, call problems, or other features that were
       | working fine before but suddenly stop functioning. Tons of people
       | will be complaining about this in forums, and you won't receive
       | any updates to fix them for months. IMHO all Pixel phones are
       | just developer devices and you can't seriously use them as daily
       | drivers. Adding more AI features won't help unless they start
       | taking their customer service seriously!
        
         | ascorbic wrote:
         | I've had a Pixel 8 Pro since launch day and have had zero
         | issues with it. Really great phone.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | I had a Pixel 4XL that could not do basic phon calls. 7/10
           | tries I would get no audio but the other person could always
           | hear me. I wiped the phone and it magically started working,
           | then about a week after that it was back to not working
           | again. Also the back cover started peeling off the phone
           | since all they did was use a tiny bit of glue to keep it on.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | Not doubting your experience, but you've had the phone for
           | less than a year and haven't had a major Android version
           | update.
           | 
           | You are 1/7th of the way of your total support period. If you
           | can say you have no problems in 2030, that would be much
           | stronger evidence.
        
             | sigzero wrote:
             | Wow, talk about an unrealistic expectation. 2030? lol
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | People trade in cars every 3 years. I imagine it's
               | similar to phones. Plus phone battery life does degrade
               | pretty heavily over time and heavy use.
        
               | dogsledsleddog wrote:
               | A subculture trades in cars every 3 years, as in they are
               | resold on the used market for another 13 years.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_longevity
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | Do those same cars have 0 problems with them and not
               | require any scheduled maintenance in those 13 years?
        
               | StevePerkins wrote:
               | Is that really a large subculture, or is that mostly car
               | rental places cycling vehicles through their fleet?
               | 
               | The rental companies typically buy vehicles from the
               | manufacturer at such a volume discount, that they're able
               | to flip them onto the used market a few years later and
               | come out even with taxes benefits factored in.
        
               | romwell wrote:
               | >People trade in cars every 3 years.
               | 
               |  _Looks at their 2010 Honda Fit in the parking lot_
               | 
               | Umm, yeah, _some_ people do.
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | Yes, but the automakers and car salesman aren't selling
               | to you.
        
               | romwell wrote:
               | _> Yes, but the automakers and car salesman aren't
               | selling to you._
               | 
               | Guess where the _trade-in value_ ultimately comes from.
               | 
               | Something tells me it's a factor in how many people are
               | able to trade their car in every three years or so.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | I trade them when the old one breaks.
               | 
               | Phones stopped having any meaningful reason to update
               | since a decade.
               | 
               | My 2019 Xiaomi Note 8 Pro is still perfect and capable of
               | answering posts on HN like this, going on YouTube or
               | answering WhatsApp. Pics are also great and battery life
               | is too.
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | Yes, your personal experience is not the same for the
               | average consumer class. Which is the majority of phones &
               | cars are designed for and sold to.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | It's actually the same of the average consumer class,
               | people are updating phones less and less, as there's
               | really little reasons to do so. New phones are marginally
               | better, at best, but not in any meaningful way.
        
               | practicemaths wrote:
               | Another user posted in above
               | 
               | "As of 2023, the global average replacement cycle length
               | for a smartphone is 3.6 years."
               | 
               | I'm not disagreing on a technical level. I agree. I use a
               | pretty cheap ass phone myself that I bought off the rack.
               | 
               | I think it's clear though that phone makers and telecom
               | companies are more than happy to sell people a new one
               | every few years and intend to continue doing that.
        
               | WA wrote:
               | That is Google's stated goal of long term support.
        
               | zepearl wrote:
               | > _That means your Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro will be
               | supported all the way into 2030_
               | 
               | https://store.google.com/intl/en_uk/ideas/articles/newest
               | -pi...
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | Some stats from another site
               | 
               | - As of 2023, the global average replacement cycle length
               | for a smartphone is 3.6 years.
               | 
               | - 40.4% of people upgrade their smartphone every two to
               | three years.
               | 
               | - The majority of people (75.0%) upgrade their handset
               | due to issues with their battery life shortening over
               | time.
        
               | morsch wrote:
               | For the majority of Android phones, two to three years
               | was also the length of time you got software updates of
               | you bought the phone right when it was released, if you
               | were lucky. I would have loved to pay somebody 80 EUR to
               | replace the battery in my Samsung S10, but that wasn't an
               | option since it was EOL.
               | 
               | Upgrading a phone also doesn't mean that the old phone
               | goes to the bin or the new phone wasn't used before. Lots
               | of people upgrade from one hand-me-down phone to another,
               | others buy on the secondary market. Longer software
               | support also extends the lifetime and viability of that
               | market.
               | 
               | Sure, eventually the battery dies and the screen breaks.
               | For many devices it's cost-effective to have somebody
               | repair it. Having user serviceable batteries would make
               | it much easier still.
        
               | gen220 wrote:
               | I don't think it's an unrealistic expectation for a hunk
               | of bleeding-edge electronics that costs ~$1k and you
               | interact with for a couple hours each day at minimum.
               | 
               | I've had an iPhone XS since 2018/09 (equidistant to 2030
               | from today), and have had no significant issues - my
               | upgrade cycle is ~6 years, there is at least one of us!
        
           | mgraczyk wrote:
           | Wait until they update the OS
        
             | bsagdiyev wrote:
             | I'm in Android 15 beta with my P8P. Zero issues. So where
             | are the problems I'm supposed to have?
        
         | cbsmith wrote:
         | I don't think you can really tie that to the brand. Because
         | it's wrapped on different OEMs, I find it varies from OEM to
         | OEM.
        
         | causi wrote:
         | That's been Google phones even since the Nexus days. They
         | review super well then three months after release there's some
         | crazy-ass hardware problem no phone has ever experienced
         | before. Screen discoloration, glass backs cracking while laying
         | flat on a table, power buttons getting stuck, spontaneous
         | camera glass cracking, etc.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | The flaws were much more excusable with the Nexus phones
           | since they were dirt cheap, but the price of the Pixels has
           | crept upwards and now they're more or less at parity with
           | Apple and Samsungs flagship prices.
        
           | AtlasBarfed wrote:
           | My issue is that they are bottom-barrel of repairability.
           | 
           | My Nexus phones were described as "designed to fail and
           | impossible to fix" by a repair guy.
        
             | abawany wrote:
             | But that's not true anymore afaik: they get good
             | repairability scores at ifixit and also have a deal with
             | them to stock repair parts.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | This was a major issue that drove me away from Android. In
         | addition to first party bugs, I got tired of 3rd party
         | accessories not working correctly.
         | 
         | My theory was iPhone probably got tested on most 3rd party
         | accessories. However, the fragmentation in the Android space
         | meant I'd have no idea what devices they actually tested with.
         | 
         | This is further compounded by the fact that Android isn't
         | really an open platform, at least in a practical sense. I can't
         | just load up a patch for something (assuming it exists) without
         | fully switching to some open source ROM that's going to come
         | with its own issues.
        
           | eddieroger wrote:
           | There's also only one Bluetooth stack on Apple's platforms
           | (presumably shared), so testing is more straightforward. And
           | if so inclined, there's also the Made for iPhone program that
           | requires validation, but again that's with one device in two
           | form factors. It's not a fair challenge comparing Android
           | device support because the task is bigger, though Google
           | could probably do some stuff to make that less painful.
        
             | AtlasBarfed wrote:
             | It's almost like there should be a, I don't know, STANDARD
             | test suite that peripherals, phones, and chips that want to
             | use the Bluetooth STANDARD would have to pass in order to
             | advertise being compatible with the Bluetooth STANDARD, as
             | directed and administered by the Bluetooth STANDARD
             | organization.
             | 
             | Bluetooth is so old that it was coming into use when
             | Computer Shopper was still published. It's been a dumpster
             | fire of compatibility since its inception.
             | 
             | There's one of two culprits on the Android side: either its
             | the device drivers, or the OS itself. Device drivers should
             | be capable of being subjected to stringent acceptance
             | standards in order to advertise "Bluetooth". If it's the
             | OS, that's even worse since it is higher up the abstraction
             | stack. At least the device drivers being closer to hardware
             | have an excuse.
             | 
             | Bluetooth is 26 years old. A 26 year old industry standard
             | should be better than a coinflip as to whether some
             | bluetooth thingamajig will work with a mobile OS. It's just
             | sad.
        
               | Bluestein wrote:
               | > year old industry standard should be better
               | 
               | Ballpark as old as USB if not mistaken, and that's saying
               | lots ...
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | Google could just say "Here is our official bluetooth
             | hardware/software. Either use the official
             | hardware/software, or use something else but we will kick
             | you out of the android program if your implementation and
             | ours ever have any kind of difference that is noticeable to
             | a user".
        
             | SkyPuncher wrote:
             | As a consumer, I just don't care whether it's fair or not.
             | Android and iOS are competing, almost identical platforms.
             | They both do what I need, but only one of them doesn't
             | always break.
             | 
             | Saying it's not fair to compare them is like saying it's
             | not fair to compare a minivan to an SUV when making a car
             | purchase. They're different, but similar enough.
        
         | PhasmaFelis wrote:
         | The win-win solution is to only buy Pixel phones that are
         | several generations old. The kinks are ironed out, they're less
         | than half the price, and for 95%+ of users, they're just as
         | capable as the latest-and-greatest.
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | They don't get security patches though
        
             | e44858 wrote:
             | Most of the important parts will continue to get security
             | updates: https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-
             | android-14/
        
             | tweenagedream wrote:
             | Which ones?
             | 
             | According to
             | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en
             | pixel 5a is getting eol this month, with the next security
             | update dropping for pixel 6 starting in October 2026
             | 
             | "Last gen" pixel 8 is going to get android and security
             | updates through October 2030
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | Phones are really rather secure. Even a 2 year past
             | security patches android rarely has any of the most severe
             | vulnerability (remote code execution with no action from
             | the user).
             | 
             | The common security issues (app can get permissions it
             | shouldn't have) are nowhere near as important if you don't
             | download random APK's from dodgy sites.
             | 
             | Overall, my fully patched linux laptop has _far_ bigger
             | security holes than a 2-years-unpatched android.
        
             | treyd wrote:
             | Thirdparty roms are very good about backporting patches
             | after Google drops support.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | This describes the average Android phone for sure, but the
         | Pixel line has been pretty solid in my experience.
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | So who does make good phones?
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | Nobody, you just have to chose which kind of bad you can
           | tolerate.
           | 
           | Personally, I navigate the Android fragmentation mess to
           | avoid Apple's control-freak tendencies. One is annoying, the
           | other is offensive. But I totally see why you might prefer
           | the opposite.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Apple.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Pixel phones are among the best, and getting better as Google
           | gets more experience shipping hardware. I've had a ton of
           | Pixel phones and there are definitely paper cuts here and
           | there, but:
           | 
           | > IMHO all Pixel phones are just developer devices and you
           | can't seriously use them as daily drivers.
           | 
           | Is ridiculously hyperbolic.
           | 
           | OnePlus phones are also really good when new, although
           | updates often introduce new bugs. When OnePlus was more
           | affordable it was less of an issue, but with current prices I
           | expect several years out of a device that expensive.
           | 
           | Just get a Pixel.
        
           | croemer wrote:
           | OnePlus used to - until they didn't anymore. OnePlus 8 was
           | excellent. Pixel 8 Pro has the worst mobile reception I've
           | ever had in a phone.
        
           | fortyseven wrote:
           | I've been quite happy with the Galaxy phones since the S21
           | Ultra.
        
           | StevePerkins wrote:
           | It's crazy that I'm the first person in this sub-thread to
           | mention Samsung, when they are by far the market leader in
           | Android phones. They have decent options at pretty much every
           | price point.
           | 
           | For some reason, HN and Reddit just hates this company, and I
           | don't understand why. People talk about "bloat", because
           | Samsung ships with their own apps for things like phone,
           | clock, calculator, etc. But it's trivial to uninstall those,
           | and/or set the Google stock Android counterparts as your
           | system defaults.
           | 
           | People get all weird about One UI, but my son has a Pixel and
           | I have a Galaxy and I honestly don't see much meaningful
           | difference between the two (other than his phone getting hot
           | as hell because Google's own Tensor silicon sucks). I just
           | recently switched back to Android from Apple, perhaps these
           | UI skins were further apart in the past?
           | 
           | I think a lot of contrarians just hate Samsung because it's
           | the market leader, simple as that.
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | They switched the home and back buttons... why? I can only
             | assume it was to make competing android phones feel awkward
             | such that those who step foot outside of Samsung quickly
             | run back to "safety".
        
               | StevePerkins wrote:
               | This?
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/9uUJLaz.jpeg
               | 
               | I've never seen any kind of UI where the "Home" button
               | wouldn't be in the center. And you have the option of
               | placing the "Back" button on the left and the "Open Apps"
               | button on the right, or vice-versa.
        
               | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
               | Agreed, home is always in the center. My comment is
               | regarding whether "back" is left or right of home.
               | Samsung defaults it on the right side, everybody else
               | puts it on the left: https://www.androidcentral.com/how-
               | switch-position-navigatio...
               | 
               | Recent android versions have put more of this in the the
               | hands of the app, for better or worse. So it's not
               | especially material nowadays.
               | 
               | My point is just that it's an example of Samsung making
               | design decisions which leverage the fragmentation to
               | create confusion among the users.
               | 
               | I noticed it when my boss said that non-galaxy devices
               | feel awkward. I ended up using his phone later and
               | realized why: vendor lock in through muscle memory. It's
               | the kind of monopolistic move that only the largest
               | fragment can benefit from--anyone else puts themselves at
               | a disadvantage by departing from Android defaults. But
               | Samsung, since they control the majority, can bias the
               | market in a way that makes the defaults feel weird. It's
               | rather Apple-like if you ask me.
               | 
               | ... which is why I use a Pixel. I hate Google, but
               | they're what I'm stuck with, so I might as well not be
               | messed with by anyone _else_.
        
         | notfed wrote:
         | I've had a dozens od Bluetooth devices (of both computers and
         | headsets), and have never not had Bluetooth issues. I would not
         | isolate "Bluetooth issues" to Android.
        
           | guzik wrote:
           | Well, on the contrary, we've worked extensively with
           | Bluetooth since we're in the business of creating wearables.
           | Unfortunately, we've had to compile a list of unsupported
           | Android phones that exhibited unusual behaviors, such as
           | sudden disconnections.
           | 
           | I must say that both Samsungs and iPhones have always been
           | rock solid in terms of stability.
        
           | Atotalnoob wrote:
           | Bluetooth on android is quite terrible.
           | 
           | Especially BLE, a startup I worked at had a device that
           | broadcast every 500ms for 375ms. We tested over 100 android
           | devices and the best phone had a 40% chance of detecting the
           | device within 5 seconds...
        
             | dns_snek wrote:
             | Any interesting observations with respect to different
             | brands? What does the overall distribution look like and
             | how does it compare against other devices you tested, e.g.
             | iPhones, laptops?
        
               | Atotalnoob wrote:
               | Our app was specifically only for androids.
               | 
               | We didn't test anything other than androids, my work
               | laptop, and software defined radios.
               | 
               | Different brands, I recall Samsung devices being the
               | worst on average. I believe the better Bluetooth devices
               | were actually nexus/pixel phones... I think the top, by
               | far, was the nexus 9, but it's been a while.
               | 
               | The product was pretty cool that we built. It was
               | essentially tile or Apple AirTags before both of those
               | were around and ruggedized for usage in commercial usage
               | to keep track of items (dumpsters, underwater diving
               | equipment, mining equipment, portapotties, etc). You'd be
               | surprised how easy it is for some of these companies to
               | lose a dumpster or something else of considerable size
               | and mass.
               | 
               | Building the mesh network and algorithms to determine if
               | someone passed by, moved, etc the item the beacon was
               | attached to was pretty cool stuff.
               | 
               | We also didn't want to use data as much as possible, but
               | the final determination of "what happened" to the item
               | needed to be server side to ensure we took into account
               | scenarios like 2 unrelated items traveled together for 2
               | miles, then went their separate ways. So we had to
               | optimize for data, geo, temporal, spatial data, etc.
               | 
               | Given the speed a vehicle might travel and Bluetooth
               | range, you could have 1-5 bbroadcasts to detect a beacons
               | presence and update its location so missed detections
               | were critical.
        
         | itsoktocry wrote:
         | > _IMHO all Pixel phones are just developer devices and you can
         | 't seriously use them as daily drivers._
         | 
         | I've had Pixel 3XL, Pixel 5, Pixel 8, and Pixel Tablet all
         | without issue. I realize that can't be everyone's experience,
         | but the idea that you can't "seriously use" these devices is
         | untrue.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Really? The Pixel 8, my first Pixel, shipped without working
           | USB webcam support, which was one of the advertised launch
           | features. To actually get that feature you had to switch to
           | the beta release track, which of course broke lots of the
           | other things on the phone. Notable things that have been
           | broken for a month or more on the beta track since I owned a
           | Pixel 8 include tap to pay and the unlock screen.
        
             | PUSH_AX wrote:
             | We could do anecdotes all day. Unless there is hard data on
             | how brittle or robust these devices are it all seems a bit
             | pointless.
        
               | ibash wrote:
               | No, anecdotes are data. You can't just ignore customers
               | and claim their experience isn't hard data.
               | 
               | One of my pet peeves is engineers making excuses for
               | incompetence.
        
               | mardef wrote:
               | Ok, so my Pixel 1, 3, 5, and 7 have had no problems.
               | 
               | Data shows 100% reliability then?
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | So the fact that my iPhones wifi failed means that
               | they're all terrible products and we shouldn't look at
               | engineering practices like failure rate statistics?
               | 
               | Or do we just do that for brands we're not fanboys of
               | like __true__ engineers?
        
               | PUSH_AX wrote:
               | Good luck with that. Sure it's data, it's the worst
               | possible data you could choose to make an informed
               | decision. If you want to gain insight by selectively
               | reported, highly biased reports of a tiny sample size, go
               | for it.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | >No, anecdotes are data
               | 
               | They're not good data, they're some of the worst. Your
               | idiosyncratic one-off experience should be addressed, but
               | not necessarily generalized from. I feel like this is an
               | important, perhaps even the most fundamental prerequisite
               | for information literacy.
        
               | tick_tock_tick wrote:
               | I agree they are 100% data that's why we can say with
               | absolute confidence there are no issues. (source my
               | anecdotes)
        
               | zoeysmithe wrote:
               | tbf this is abusing the word anecdote a bit. Anecdotes
               | are unreliable narratives and hearsay, not facts or data.
               | 
               | An anecdote is "I forgot to pray before bed last night
               | and now I have a headache. See God is punishing me." and
               | other people agreeing with this happening to them.
               | 
               | Saying, "here is a documented pixel bug that was released
               | on day x but wasn't fixed until day y" is evidence and
               | data.
               | 
               | Once its documented as a real bug then its no longer in
               | the land of weird anecdotes.
               | 
               | How you categorize that is up to you. You can be
               | dismissive of what that bug broke as an "unimportant
               | feature" but its no longer an anecdote.
        
               | oxide wrote:
               | anecdotal evidence is what I usually base my purchases
               | on, which is why I've never bought a Google device after
               | being burned (literally) by the Nexus 6P battery issues.
               | 
               | you can pretend it doesn't matter, but bad word of mouth
               | is all it takes for me.
        
               | Gigablah wrote:
               | I have been burned twice by iPhone battery issues
               | (specifically my iPhone X).
               | 
               | Battery started discharging rapidly, I got it replaced,
               | barely a year later it's dying again.
        
               | hello_moto wrote:
               | This is me + wife with Pixel 3 despite "Battery Saving"
               | mode and killall apps.
               | 
               | The screen is eating up the battery like me drinking
               | water on a hot California weather.
        
               | digging wrote:
               | > but bad word of mouth is all it takes for me.
               | 
               | That's fine, but it's also _entirely_ different from
               | saying that the phones are objectively unstable and bad
               | for everyday use.
        
               | lordnacho wrote:
               | But who is going to have the data that we need to assess
               | this?
               | 
               | The firm that has an interest in everyone thinking
               | there's no data, and that we should withhold judgement.
               | 
               | There's not a lot of good choices here, either you assume
               | that because there's no info, everything is fine, or you
               | assume that the one guy complaining is one of many.
        
               | webnrrd2k wrote:
               | A quick search turns up problems, enough so that, as a
               | consumer, I'd be concerned. Is that hard enough data to
               | reach a conclusion in a major scientific journal? No.
               | 
               | Is it enough data so that, as a consumer looking to
               | purchase one, I would be concerned? Probably.
               | 
               | Is it enough data that I'd expect some engineer at Google
               | (or wherever) to pay attention and address? Certainly, I
               | would expect some engineering team to pay attention to
               | public forums and address issues as they arise. It
               | doesn't seem to be happening. If these phones are
               | supposed to be a flagship items, and I think it's
               | reasonable to claim that they are, it's also reasonable
               | to expect flagship support.
        
             | seattle_spring wrote:
             | I'm sure we could also find anecdotes of some iPhone users
             | having features necessary for them blocked or non-
             | functional. It does not mean that the vast majority of
             | people cannot still use the device without incident as a
             | "daily driver."
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | I used an iPhone from launch to the iPhone SE3 and I
               | can't recall there ever being a feature printed on the
               | box or hyped by Steve Jobs on stage that did not work out
               | of the box, or that later stopped working.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | Here's one about battery life:
               | 
               | https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255046014?sortBy=ran
               | k
        
               | SideQuark wrote:
               | You must have had that single magic version of Apple Maps
               | no one else got for a long time on release.
               | 
               | They lost the batterygate lawsuits, right? Guess you
               | missed that fiasco that resulted in Apple paying out over
               | half a billion. In this case Apple deliberately degraded
               | previous user experiences on older phones, which means
               | previous behavior (in this case performance) stopped
               | working, done deliberately by Apple.
               | 
               | yes, it didn't go to zero, but it didn't do what it once
               | did as decided remotely by Apple).
               | 
               | Apple also promised user data security, sold user data,
               | and got hauled before Congress in 2011 for that. But I
               | guess your user data was safe in offshore data silos.
               | 
               | I could go on, but I think your recall on iPhone
               | downsides stopped working.
        
               | kaba0 wrote:
               | > They lost the batterygate lawsuits, right? Guess you
               | missed that fiasco that resulted in Apple paying out over
               | half a billion. In this case Apple deliberately degraded
               | previous user experiences on older phones, which means
               | previous behavior (in this case performance) stopped
               | working, done deliberately by Apple
               | 
               | Let's not share this absolute misinterpretation of what
               | happened.
               | 
               | Apple fcked up big time on communication, that's for
               | sure, but it was an absolutely well meaning feature for
               | an old device, lengthening their lifespan. They saw a
               | bunch of random poweroffs due to degrading batteries not
               | being able to output enough power to the CPU, and pushed
               | an update that decreased the CPU clock down a bit. This
               | of course degraded performance, and not having informed
               | the buyers, making it a choice, they lost a lawsuit. But
               | if they would actually do the communication well, it
               | could have been an excellent positive PR, them fixing a
               | bug for a 4 or so years device!
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | The only thing they did on purpose was run too close to
               | the limits of the battery.
               | 
               | The battery degraded _because it was a battery_ , and the
               | performance had to degrade along with it because of
               | physics.
               | 
               | Apple didn't decide remotely to weaken performance. That
               | performance was on borrowed time. What Apple did wrong
               | was _not making it clear upfront_ that the performance
               | was on borrowed time and wasn 't sustainable.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | So you think there should be more testing so the testing
             | track is stable?
             | 
             | I worked on Pixel, left Google in October. I agree
             | vehemently with what you're saying, its just, you're
             | barking up the wrong tree on a couple different levels, the
             | easy one above, and a more difficult one below.
             | 
             | Management did what you wanted a few years back, #1 and #2
             | and #3 priorities were "stability above all else" since
             | Pixel 6.
             | 
             | This unfortunately didn't do anything in practice, other
             | than enable newly minted middle managers to punch down,
             | hoard work[1], and hide poor decision making and lying
             | easily.[2] Net negative effect on product of course.
             | 
             | What managers wanted to legislate was " _care_ about your
             | features ", but I observed over years that you simply can't
             | enforce that. Ironically, given the above behavior from the
             | new management layer, people got _more_ detached. Unit test
             | coverage went up, I 'd bet, which is also a lesson in unit
             | tests have significantly diminishing returns. E2E tests are
             | hard and flaky, but they pay 100x dividends in these
             | situations.
             | 
             | What you want to legislate is the truffle hunting that
             | lowest level management does is bad. i.e. say we can
             | definitely do whatever pet thing some guy 3 levels up says
             | we _need_ to copy from iOS this year. Then, hold it back
             | because it 's not done, but still announce it. Then, layer
             | on a special process to get you on the betas to get the
             | feature you thought you were buying. All of this keeps each
             | individual happy and yet, remarkably, leads us directly
             | back to the initial situation we were trying to fix.
             | 
             | From all this, you can also derive why things only launch,
             | and never improve (tl;dr: management has 0 incentive to do
             | anything other than latch onto the latest vague ask / iOS
             | copying from above)
             | 
             | [1] Estimate everything takes 3-5x engineers it did 3 years
             | ago. it's a huge win: I'm managing this team because I did
             | it myself 3 years ago, so this makes clear what a talented
             | engineer I was/am. When I solely listen to the vague asks
             | from people 3 steps above, they'll want to give me the
             | headcount I need to get their pet project done, so this
             | gives me more reports. My compensation scales with report
             | count. And if the estimate is questioned in any depth,
             | well, we're making sure we have enough to deliver this
             | Priority(tm) at high Quality(tm). Also, no one is going to
             | question it anyway, my manager made me a manager because
             | they trust me.
             | 
             | [2] it's _very_ easy to work around blatant
             | irresponsibility by flipping it into  "the guy lower on the
             | totem pole is insufficiently committed to quality and
             | collaboration [taking forever to do anything]"
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | Yes, I think the dogfood stage before the beta release
               | should be more thorough. For the record, I was also
               | adamant about this while I still worked at Google.
               | Google, especially Android, is way too eager to release
               | to beta. You should not release to beta until you have
               | stopped generating new defect reports in dogfood. If you
               | do, you just annoy the beta testers and get a huge number
               | of duplicate reports. That is exactly what happened this
               | year with the lockscreen bug. If anyone in dogfood had
               | even touched the phone _once_ the problem and its
               | severity would have been obvious. And breaking Wallet
               | generated 13000 duplicate reports, breaking a core use
               | case for beta users.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | That's actually the policy as I understood it, though, it
               | was being enforced starting in an OS cycle, and I was
               | only there for a month of it. When I think of
               | institutionalized maladaptive dysfunction, I think of the
               | lock screen.
        
           | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
           | As shocking as that sounds, I had a Pixel 7 and after
           | sometime calls stopped coming through making me miss some
           | emergency calls.
           | 
           | I have never ever had a phone do that and I have used some
           | really cheap phones.
           | 
           | So I don't think what OP is saying is far from the truth. I
           | am resolved to never buying a Pixel again.
        
           | rahimnathwani wrote:
           | I upgraded from a Pixel 3XL to a Pixel 7 Pro XL. I've been
           | generally happy. But...
           | 
           | Back in September 2019, my Pixel 3XL had a problem doing an
           | OTA update. I spent hours with Google support (both live and
           | over email). Their only suggestion was to reset the phone and
           | restore from backup.
           | 
           | The problem is... I had had the 'backup' option in settings
           | enabled, the whole time I had the phone. I thought it was
           | being backed up regularly. But I could not create a backup
           | from my phone. I tried rebooting the phone, but the 'Backup
           | Now' button was still greyed out. Based on some information
           | from the web, I disabled my PIN. That caused my Google
           | accounts to be logged out, but DID enable the 'Backup Now'
           | button. However, the backup failed. I tried doing a backup
           | via adb, which also failed.
           | 
           | IIRC this was before Google Authenticator had the ability to
           | transfer 2FA codes from one device to another. So, without
           | the ability to restore from backup, a reset would mean I
           | needed to recreate 2FA codes for tens of services, which is
           | pretty time-consuming.
           | 
           | I wasn't the only person with this problem:
           | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/13519859?hl=en
           | 
           | I really like Pixel phones, and just ordered a Pixel 9. But
           | for the foreseeable future my parents will continue getting
           | iPhones.
        
           | rhinoceraptor wrote:
           | The last I read there were still ongoing issues with 911
           | calls with Pixels, it didn't seem limited to any particular
           | phone model or OS version.
        
         | minkles wrote:
         | Yeah that. Pixel 6A and 7A. Unreliable as hell. Went straight
         | back to iOS.
         | 
         | Edit to clarify: constant problems with payments, bluetooth,
         | eSIMs.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Weird. My 7A runs fine. I do swap out a lot of apps though,
           | like keyboard and application selector.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | > IMHO all Pixel phones are just developer devices and you
         | can't seriously use them as daily drivers.
         | 
         | While there's a lot you said that I agree with, I find this
         | statement quite an exaggeration. I've owned Pixel phones for
         | the last 7 years, both with stock and custom ROMS, and as much
         | as Pixel seems to always have weird quirks, it's been reliable
         | enough for me that I don't see why it couldn't be a daily
         | driver.
         | 
         | That said, I share your view on upgrading so far that I really
         | hesitate to upgrade anything, whether it's my Pixel phone or
         | something else. I can count on one hand the number of times
         | I've been legit hacked, but I don't have enough fingers to
         | count all the times that software bugs did things like get me
         | stranded, cut me off from my finances, almost get me killed on
         | the road, and so forth.
         | 
         | Although I've never been an iPhone user, Pixel is the best
         | Android phone I've used. I'm a bit biased since it's developer-
         | friendly I'm a software engineer, but I've had the least
         | catastrophic issues (and less crapware) with them compared to
         | other phones like Samsung's line. The strange thing about Pixel
         | is that updates seem to always destabilize the UI, and I'll get
         | weird things happening like the lockscreen coming up and
         | remaining frozen for some time.
        
           | dbspin wrote:
           | >I've been legit hacked, but I don't have enough fingers to
           | count all the times ?>that software bugs did things like get
           | me stranded, cut me off from my finances, >almost get me
           | killed on the road, and so forth.
           | 
           | I hesitate to defend apple on Hackernews but I have never
           | experienced anything like these issues with any iPhone. Major
           | problem is battery life, other than that I can say the core
           | features of every iPhone I've owned have 'just worked' pretty
           | consistently.
        
             | patall wrote:
             | Neither have I on all my android phones. Only device that
             | failed me was an iPad 3 (yeah 12 years ago) that I got
             | replaced in the store due to it crashing right in their
             | hands. But hey, anecdotes.
        
         | oysterville wrote:
         | First adopters are now the beta, or even in some cases alpha,
         | testers and will continue to be for as long as there are enough
         | people willing to sacrifice stability for having the newest
         | tech.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | > IMHO all Pixel phones are just developer devices
         | 
         | These were the Nexus. Pixel phones are definitely consumer
         | devices. Nexus phones were designed to be rather generic, meant
         | to be used as a model for other manufacturers and as a test
         | platform for developers. It was when Android really was open
         | (or at least more than it is today). They were usable phones,
         | even good ones, but without any "personality".
         | 
         | Pixel phones on the other hand advertises exclusive features,
         | and is mostly picture-focused, hence the name, and also AI, but
         | who isn't nowadays. Nexus advertisement was little more than
         | its spec sheet.
        
         | 0x1ch wrote:
         | The fact that more than once, you could not call 911 due to a
         | bug, should be enough to convince people that Google doesn't
         | test their products or have any quality control.
        
           | eldaisfish wrote:
           | This alone is why I will never buy another android phone.
           | 
           | It is inconceivable to me how a phone dialer bug can happen
           | more than once, especially when it involves a life and death
           | situation.
        
           | digging wrote:
           | I would seriously hope that 2 instances of a certain bug, no
           | matter how critical, would not convince _anyone_ that the
           | manufacturer  "doesn't test their products or have any
           | quality control".
        
             | 0x1ch wrote:
             | Any other service wouldn't have bothered me. This was a
             | reoccurring issue across different releases of the Pixel
             | line... If there is a single thing you should be able to do
             | with a cellular device, it's call 911... Not acceptable.
        
         | chimeracoder wrote:
         | > One of the big problems with Pixel phones is their lack of
         | thorough testing. You upgrade and suddenly you encounter
         | strange Bluetooth issues, call problems, or other features that
         | were working fine before but suddenly stop functioning. Tons of
         | people will be complaining about this in forums, and you won't
         | receive any updates to fix them for months. IMHO all Pixel
         | phones are just developer devices and you can't seriously use
         | them as daily drivers. Adding more AI features won't help
         | unless they start taking their customer service seriously!
         | 
         | I've been using the Pixel/Nexus phones for over a decade, and I
         | find this complaint bizarre. I've had issues with the phones
         | (just like I have with my Apple hardware) at times, but nothing
         | like what you're describing.
         | 
         | The real issue with Pixel phones is not that their software or
         | hardware support is worse (it isn't) but the customer support.
         | If my iPhone breaks under warranty, I can walk into an Apple
         | store and get it fixed or replaced immediately. When my Pixel
         | device breaks, even though I live near the flagship Google
         | store, the best Google will do is send me a replacement phone
         | "within 5-10 business days".
         | 
         | The customer support experience is a huge issue, and I wish
         | Google would do something about it. But the other points don't
         | resonate at all.
        
           | eldaisfish wrote:
           | More than once, pixel devices were left unable to call
           | emergency services - 911.
           | 
           | Just imagine, you are in a life or death scenario and your
           | literal phone has a bug preventing you from calling help.
           | 
           | All other issues are minor. I cannot forgive a bug of this
           | nature.
        
             | chimeracoder wrote:
             | > Just imagine, you are in a life or death scenario and
             | your literal phone has a bug preventing you from calling
             | help.
             | 
             | > All other issues are minor. I cannot forgive a bug of
             | this nature.
             | 
             | Does that mean you will never use Verizon, AT&T, or
             | T-Mobile, all of which have had carrier-wide 911 outages?
             | Will you never visit the state of Massachusetts, which had
             | a _state-wide_ 911 outage, affecting all carriers, just six
             | weeks ago?
             | 
             | This type of failure is bad, but it's unfortunately a lot
             | more common than you think.
        
               | eldaisfish wrote:
               | this is a bad faith response and you know it.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | It looks like a valid question to me. Obviously it's
               | rhetorical, but it makes a reasonable point that the
               | hard-line stance of "cannot forgive a bug of this nature"
               | is probably not viable. These are not strawman examples,
               | these are similarly horrible failures.
        
         | creato wrote:
         | I switched from pixel to iPhone because I was fed up with bugs.
         | I'm going to switch back to pixel for my next phone because I'm
         | fed up with bugs on iOS. It's really not better, just a
         | different set of bugs.
        
         | khaomungai wrote:
         | I've had several Pixel phones and using the 6a currently. Never
         | ever had any issues. My strategy is to delay updates for a few
         | days to be not the first one bricking my phone. :)
        
         | locallost wrote:
         | I've used Pixel 6 for the last few years and Pixel 3a before
         | that. "As daily drivers" whatever that actually means, as I for
         | sure don't have any other phone laying around.
        
         | fullstop wrote:
         | I have a Pixel 7 Pro, and my Bluetooth has been fine. No issues
         | there, ever, but I do have complaints about features suddenly
         | not working and it mostly revolves around Google Assistant. It
         | is utterly inconsistent with what it does, and it is maddening.
         | 
         | It randomly wants me to unlock the device to play music, but
         | I'm using voice controls because I'm driving. It has my car's
         | bluetooth device set as "trusted" so it shouldn't even require
         | it to unlock to continue, and it's not like asking it to play
         | something on Spotify would reveal any information about myself.
         | Additionally, sometimes it just leaves the screen on in the off
         | chance that it _does_ start to play music, and I feel my pocket
         | getting warm but there's nothing that I can do because I'm
         | driving and I don't want to mess with my phone.
         | 
         | If I knew that it was going to leave the screen on I would just
         | queue up music before I leave, but it doesn't always do it and
         | it drives me nuts. I don't think that my next phone will be a
         | Pixel.
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | Yep. I think I'm in the "fool me twice" category on Pixels now.
         | This is the third one in a row with a bad USB socket.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | Nice to see they haven't changed anything from the Nexus 5
         | days. I purposely stayed on the official firmware in the hopes
         | that I would have a seamless experience. The day before an epic
         | trip around Europe, I upgraded to the latest version. It broke
         | video recording so that all videos had garbled audio. Ruined
         | priceless memories. Meanwhile my friend's iPhone 5 was
         | operating perfectly fine and wasn't always running out of
         | battery like the Nexus was. After the trip, I had enough and
         | bought a used iPhone. That was the last time I ever considered
         | Android. This also turned me into a die hard Mac user. Can't
         | believe I wasted years of my life trying to make Linux and
         | Windows work when I could have just used a Mac.
        
       | raviisoccupied wrote:
       | It's incredible to me how much worse this web page is than a
       | comparable Apple one. Just from a cursory glance, I've seen some
       | late loading elements, weird and confusing pricing before I've
       | even seen the whole phone, and a weirdly masked and slightly
       | pixelated video.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | Definitely a page full of eye sores. Also the branding is all
         | over the place, the page itself feels more like it fits
         | BestBuy's branding than Google's.
        
           | jerjerjer wrote:
           | They could have removed half of the "AI" references and it
           | would still be overused.
        
       | netbioserror wrote:
       | I bought a refurbished Pixel 3A for $150 and dropped Graphene on
       | it. Has worked like a charm. Incredible 4-day battery life thanks
       | to the absence of Google Play Services. Might move to /e/ soon
       | now that Graphene has dropped support.
        
         | meonkeys wrote:
         | /e/ is nice. Pairs well with Nextcloud.
        
       | fsckboy wrote:
       | Bit of advice I'm looking for, if my question resonates for you:
       | I've had Pixels in the past (pretty distant past at this stage)
       | but I generally found the experience to be too "beta" or
       | "experimental", in that various features would not carry over to
       | a new Pixel, and I'd have to get used to something entirely
       | different all over again. In contrast, I've enjoyed the Samsung
       | approach, and I love the Fold. (I also carry iphones, I like
       | gadgets)
       | 
       | Should I try the Pixel Fold, might I like it? (looking for
       | opinions from people who recognize my story; no need to tell me
       | things like "nobody can answer that for you")
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | I've never used the fold, I'd be a bit concerned about the
         | screen wearing at the crease. Damage is another thing to be
         | worried about.
         | 
         | As for the pixels, my advice is to hold off buying the latest
         | until like Feb or even May. Google pretty aggressively drops
         | the prices after release so waiting just a little bit will save
         | you several hundred dollars. By Feb, generally the phones have
         | been pretty stable.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Black Friday usually gets a couple hundred $ off as well.
           | Only risk is that if the phone (or watch, etc) is selling
           | well then they won't discount it, so you might end up waiting
           | a long time or waiting a couple months and still paying full
           | price. I always try to hold out for Black Friday though
           | unless my old phone is broken.
        
         | SushiHippie wrote:
         | I only bought a Pixel because of GrapheneOS.
         | 
         | I think I've never had this few issues with a phone. (I only
         | had Samsung phones before this)
         | 
         | It feels even better than the Android that the Pixels ship
         | with, I used it for a day before I flashed GrapheneOS, and I
         | can completely understand why one would not buy a Pixel again
         | if they only experienced the Stock OS.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | I'm always interested in trying things like that, but I'm not
           | that into playing some sort of "jailbreak cat and mouse" over
           | time. If I install GrapheneOS, is it automatic after that for
           | security updates and whatnot, or do I have to do some weird
           | two-hands-three-fingers reboot and manually download, etc?
        
             | hendi_ wrote:
             | Yes, it's fully automated OTA updates with GrapheneOS.
             | 
             | (running it since 9mo on my Pixel 8)
        
               | joe200 wrote:
               | What about banking apps ? Do they work correctly ? Do
               | they complain that you don't have genuine phone ?
        
               | SushiHippie wrote:
               | My banking apps all work (three different german banks),
               | but the app from my health insurance does not want to
               | work.
               | 
               | Relevant recent submission:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41215126
        
             | penguinjanitor wrote:
             | Graphene OS has automatic updates, prompts you for reboots
             | after installing them via notification.
        
             | lynndotpy wrote:
             | Speaking as a Calyx user since 2020, the install experience
             | was a bit finnicky, and it required no ongoing manual
             | maintenance. My understanding is the web installer is
             | pretty easy now though.
             | 
             | One caveat: Unlocking the bootloader deletes the disk. This
             | is a reasonable security measure, but it means you don't
             | want to use the phone for anything important before
             | installing Graphene.
        
           | riddley wrote:
           | What excited you about Graphene?
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | I'm not sure why you think you'd like the Pixel fold more than
         | the Samsung Fold. Their dimensions are similar, but you've
         | already said you dislike the software experience.
         | 
         | I had the Nexus 5, Pixel 1, 3a, and now 7a, with a couple other
         | phones in between which each time drove me back to Google
         | hardware and their flavor of Android. If you didn't like the
         | software in the early days of Pixel, or even in the Nexus days
         | before, you probably still wouldn't.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > _I 'm not sure why you think you'd like the Pixel fold more
           | than the Samsung Fold._
           | 
           | a hypothetical answer to my question could be: "yes, worth
           | trying the Pixel experience again, but stay away from the
           | Fold." my question had two dimensions.
           | 
           | but thank you! very informative. yes, I had most of the
           | Nexuses, then into the Pixels
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | Personally can't imagine someone thinking "I hate the pixel
           | experience" and then actually preferring samsung's, which is
           | way worse.
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | Personally I view the Pixel experience as "clean", but I've
             | heard it described as "sparse" by Samsung fans.
        
         | klauserc wrote:
         | Hm... difficult question. I got a Pixel Fold at half price
         | second hand. What MKBHD says about the Pixel Fold is absolutely
         | true: it has the best outer screen/folded experience of all the
         | foldables. Most of the time, I use it closed. And, apart from
         | the abysmal screen brightness, it's a perfectly fine phone when
         | folded.
         | 
         | There are still very few apps that support the full screen
         | properly and while you can force apps to run full screen on the
         | big screen, their automatic UI layout will simply blow up the
         | lower and upper portions of their interface so that you don't
         | see that much more.
         | 
         | Most Google app, obviously, have proper support and YouTube is
         | definitely the primary use case for the big screen. Insanely,
         | Google Maps loses features when viewed unfolded (WTF?). But
         | even among the Google apps, though, most don't really use the
         | space in a useful way. They often just put some hamburger menu
         | permanently on the screen. Nice, I guess, but you won't bother
         | unfolding the phone just for that.
         | 
         | Web browsing/reading is great on the unfolded screen. That's
         | where the near-rectangular aspect ratio works best.
         | 
         | Honestly though, while I'm keeping an eye on what's happening
         | in the foldable space, I think my next phone will be a boring
         | old slab phone again.
        
       | microflash wrote:
       | Do these phones have an upgrade to the "phone" part? My Pixel 8
       | Pro keeps dropping networks every few days and takes minutes to
       | reconnect.
        
         | wilsonnb3 wrote:
         | They are using a new modem this year but it is still Samsung
         | rather than Qualcomm.
         | 
         | Pixel 7 and 8 used the Samsung 5300 which wasnt very good so
         | the new 5400 might be better but we will have to wait for
         | reviews and what not.
         | 
         | Google is switching from Samsung to TSMC for chip fab next gen,
         | so the Pixel 10 might end up with a significantly better modem.
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | I'm kind of sad that the world seems to have given up on the
       | smaller phones. The marketing of the masculine hand holding the
       | larger phone is amusing to me, and I can understand wanting to
       | have a larger screen. I do not like the amount of space these
       | things take in my pocket, though.
        
         | pdxandi wrote:
         | I broke my iPhone 12 mini and part of me died that day. A tired
         | dad moment - set the phone on the trunk lid when getting my kid
         | in the car and then later opened the trunk. It slid down and
         | crunched in the hinge.
         | 
         | I could replace it with another mini but have been holding out
         | hope for another updated version. I love the small form factor,
         | even at the expense of battery life and camera quality. I just
         | want a reasonable phone with solid hardware that fits in my
         | pocket.
        
           | eBombzor wrote:
           | Didn't they basically confirm that they're discontinuing the
           | mini series? The 15 is still your best bet.
        
             | MBCook wrote:
             | They never say. The 13 mini was the last one. Maybe there
             | will be a 17 mini, maybe never again.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | bought a 15- bearing in mind that the 12 mini was also too
             | large for me (5s was perfect).
             | 
             | 15 Pro has been dropped many more times, can't be operated
             | with one hand at all. It's the first time I had to have a
             | replacement screen actually- after owning iPhones for 15
             | years.
             | 
             | Anyway... I'm considering going back to the 5s. I would
             | only miss wireless charging and apple wallet I think. (and
             | apps are now made for the larger screen and will have
             | elements that are inaccessible due to going passed the
             | edges of the display).
        
               | ineedaj0b wrote:
               | get the SE 2, 3, or 4. 5s is too old, nothing works a lot
               | of apps won't download.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | In the beginning, smartphones were all tiny, because it was
           | universally agreed that smaller cell phones were better.
           | 
           | Then there was a huge, neverending push to make phones as
           | large as possible, or larger. Sometimes smaller phones have
           | been offered as an unpopular option, but more often
           | "enormous" is the minimum size.
           | 
           | And as long as that's been going on, people have been
           | complaining that they want their phone to fit in their hand.
           | 
           | Stipulate that a majority seems to feel that there's no need
           | for a phone to fit in your hand. Why are the manufacturers so
           | insistent on not providing small phones? Shirts come in all
           | different sizes. How much does it cost to design an
           | additional size of phone?
           | 
           | (Related: ever since the switch to 16:9 laptop screens,
           | everyone has been complaining to no avail about the inferior
           | dimensions of the screen. Why are manufacturers still
           | cramming them down our throats? This one isn't even a case
           | where people prefer 16:9 to 16:10.)
           | 
           | The best form factor of any smartphone I've owned is the
           | first one, the Nexus S: 63mm wide, 124mm tall, and the back
           | popped off to make replacing the battery convenient.
           | 
           | Phones have gotten steadily worse, as far as usability goes,
           | ever since. There's more computing power, but I have trouble
           | believing that's what's driving the shape.
        
             | nasdaq-txn wrote:
             | >Why are the manufacturers so insistent on not providing
             | small phones?
             | 
             | They don't sell.
             | 
             | Apple killed the iPhone mini due to low sales. Asus
             | replaced the universally lauded Zenfone 10 with a very
             | large Zenfone 11. Google increased the size of the Pixel 6
             | when compared to its predecessor. Sales also increased.
        
               | Nition wrote:
               | It's weird though that there apparently isn't a market
               | for even one high-end small phone, from any manufacturer.
               | 
               | I wonder if to some extent they're not different
               | _enough_. The iPhone mini has a 5.4 " screen. Not so long
               | ago we managed well enough with 4" iPhone screens. I
               | wonder how a 4.5" version would sell - call it the iPhone
               | Nano.
               | 
               | Unfortunately a lot of apps don't support those smaller
               | screen sizes so well anymore. But people who want a small
               | phone that's easy to carry around, who won't be using it
               | for hours a day, don't always need many apps.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | I really wanted a 12 mini but the shortened battery life
               | made it a no-go for me. Ended up with a standard 12 and
               | am still happy with it years later aside from it being
               | slightly larger than I would like.
        
             | mihaaly wrote:
             | https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-
             | i...
        
           | mihaaly wrote:
           | I keep an eye on sites selling refurbished iPhone SE, the
           | first one! : )
           | 
           | Shipping with new battery for extra (...unsure if I'd trust
           | that battery though).
           | 
           | That one I can still use for phonecalls and occasional
           | practical things I need when away from desk and computer.
           | 
           | And the irony about decent hardware is that all have decent
           | hardware from the past 10-15 years, only the software that is
           | crap on garbage and can't use hardware that could have been
           | excellent mainframes some decades ago in some secret nuclear
           | research laboratory. Need a powerstation now to present and
           | scroll bitmaps and some text.
        
         | StevePerkins wrote:
         | I can see wanting a smaller phone. That is an underserved
         | market segment. But implying that phone marketing is
         | patriarchy-driven is laughably absurd. Marketing for phones is
         | probably more diverse and carefully balanced than for any other
         | product category.
        
           | serial_dev wrote:
           | I didn't read patriarchy on the original comment.
           | 
           | I read that they need to use gigantic manly man hands for the
           | gigantic phones, because otherwise people would realize that
           | it's a "two-handed" phone for most of us mere mortals, that's
           | impossible to use with one hand for anything but the most
           | basic tasks.
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | Apologies, I meant my comment as a dig on the old idea that
           | the larger phone is for men. It genuinely amused me that they
           | used different hands to hold the phone. Especially since I
           | have no real concept looking at that page on how big it would
           | be in my hands.
           | 
           | And note that this was a serious criticism a few years ago
           | where it was a complaint that all things are designed for 6'
           | men by default. I don't know if that is still the general
           | belief, but it got a ton of traction for at least a short
           | while. I would be surprised if there aren't a fair number of
           | folks that still think that.
        
           | alonsonic wrote:
           | They probably were trying to imply that they had to use a
           | male model to hold the phone because they are now huge
        
           | henryfjordan wrote:
           | > Marketing for phones is probably more diverse and carefully
           | balanced than for any other product category.
           | 
           | How can that be true when there's only 2 phone OSes of note
           | and one single company sells half the phones in the US?
           | There's not enough diversity in the market to create the
           | conditions for diverse marketing.
           | 
           | If anything it's a race to the middle. When there are 2 shops
           | in town, they tend to become more similar not more diverse.
        
             | oorza wrote:
             | He said diversity of marketing, not diversity of product.
             | Marketing is how you're selling, not what you're selling.
        
           | seoulmetro wrote:
           | > Marketing for phones is probably more diverse and carefully
           | balanced than for any other product category.
           | 
           | Marketing for phones is forcibly (over) diverse and carefully
           | not balanced but constructed than for any other product
           | category.
           | 
           | They do not market objectively to the customers. They market
           | by emotion and political correctness.
           | 
           | Just try to find a straight, white male, dare I say, two
           | white male friends in a Google ad.
        
         | switchbak wrote:
         | Perhaps they're catering to people with different hand sizes
         | and gender is not a factor?
        
           | seoulmetro wrote:
           | The large phones are so large that even large hand sizes
           | won't be able to comfortably use it one handed.
           | 
           | They're catering to people liking big and shiny.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | From what I have seen _women_ tend to prefer the larger phone
         | sizes more than men, because they keep it in their handbags and
         | use it two-handed.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | Straight facts. I have a purse, hip bag, or small backpack on
           | me everywhere so the size is pretty much irrelevant so long
           | as I can type on the keyboard with two hands. I would use the
           | hell out of a 3DS XL sized folding phone.
           | 
           | I will say that the folding screen seems like a gimmick on
           | the "2.5 phones taped together" size. For compact flip phones
           | it makes sense tho.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | Yes, that is also my anecdata (women with giant phones in
           | their purses, or even wearing the phone as a purse). I have
           | an iPhone 12 mini, really don't want anything bigger, but
           | perhaps I'll go for a good watch and buds that can be online
           | without a phone and also leave the giant phone in the bag
           | most of the day, that would mean great battery life, less
           | phone in hand, less distraction perhaps?
        
             | mckn1ght wrote:
             | I've wanted to ditch the iPhone/Macbook and go
             | watch/airpods/ipad for years now. They need to decouple the
             | requirement to own an iPhone to get a watch up and running
             | (this should be something an iPad can do), and make the
             | iPad an actual pro dev machine. Not sure I'm ever going to
             | get my wish, sadly.
        
         | alonsonic wrote:
         | This has been brought up in the past and Apple did try to cater
         | to that market with their smaller phone and it seemed the
         | market response was not great, they ultimately had to drop the
         | iPhone mini because it was not worth it.
        
           | lWaterboardCats wrote:
           | I'm sure there are many out there like me, but I used to
           | prefer smaller phones until I used a larger phone for one
           | generation; after trying to move back to a smaller phone, I
           | just missed the real estate of a larger screen.
        
         | henryfjordan wrote:
         | I ordered and sent back a Pixel 7 because it was so large/heavy
         | compared to what I was used to. Ended up buying a refurbed
         | Pixel 5 (the model before Google introduced the new camera bar
         | design) that's still kicking, been very happy.
         | 
         | Looks like they've gotten the Pixel 9 a bit smaller than the 7
         | but still the same weight. It's still larger than the Pixel 5
         | too.
         | 
         | https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Google-Pixel-9,Google...
         | 
         | The iPhone, to be fair, is closer to the Pixel 9 in size/weight
         | than the Pixel 5 too.
        
         | Sateeshm wrote:
         | I'm still rocking my pixel 4a for this reason
        
         | CobrastanJorji wrote:
         | I'm curious about those Samsung flip phones that, instead of
         | flipping open like a book, flip shut into a square like a 90s
         | flip phone. I don't really want to buy one, but I like the idea
         | a lot.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | I am male with large palm and fingers but a 6.5" phone is
         | simply unusable for being a phone. Pocket? Haha, probably a
         | small sachet, weights 0.2kg, comedic on the face for calling,
         | all the folks lost their minds completely giving 1000$ for such
         | a parody?! It can't even sit stable on the desk for f's sake.
         | Pretentius fragile money pit garbage all.
         | 
         | Just set up a new Android with 6.5" size and I am in a
         | particularly bad mood now. Wasting my hours on ...this! The
         | process itself is infuriating, zillions of 'features' just
         | wasting my time reading how uber-user-focused are so set it up
         | NOW! while tap-tap-tap-tap-tap for seemingly into eternity,
         | beyond comfortable by an ocean plus a half, but watch for this
         | and accept that and log in and register here and connect that
         | and you will be amazed, allow us to take your data, don't
         | worry, we care, we say it repeatedly so it must be like that,
         | right?, here are two dozens of icons be amazed about, wow how
         | many icons are there it is amazing, amazing multiplied, word-
         | editor-assistant-presentation-maker-tv-communication-console-
         | education-news-pretty-sleepwithme-and-tap-me-tap-me-day-and-
         | nigh-oh-yes, into eternity, but first allow this and allow
         | that, just one more, read that, we improve your experience so
         | do it do it, do it again and again, soon we get there, oh wait,
         | camera MUST have discovery of nerby devices otherwise closes
         | itself, hmmm, not something on my old Pentax, that's new kind
         | of development in the history of photography, watching for
         | nearby bicycle or toaster or whatever...
         | 
         | Users have no self respect nowadays, none!, and swallow
         | whatever manufacturers stomp down their throats in the dozen,
         | repeatedly. It is good this thing was the cheapest, I did not
         | dare discovering past 8 years' development on high price, and
         | will only be used as a small tablet at home apart from being a
         | guinea pig, not good for anything else (without satisfying its
         | attention hungry distracting barrage of time wasting functional
         | nothingness). Maybe navigation from time to time, but unsure,
         | heavier than some travel books!
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | I'm happy with my Pixel 6a. Think with my previous trade-in (some
       | older pixel), it was like $299. Gotta time things right to get
       | the next one at a similar price point. I def don't want that
       | Gemini stuff on there though. The cheapest new phone being $800
       | seems to be a step up though.
        
       | NotSammyHagar wrote:
       | Pixel 9 also says satellite emergency support ("Satellite SOS").
       | Search for info gets you to
       | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15254448?hl=en&...
       | 
       | It looks like it's coming "later this year". Lots of chatter
       | about it, see a few details at
       | https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-9-satellite-sos-34676...
       | 
       | * apparently coming with android 15, but they are shipping
       | android 14
       | 
       | * turning on satellite sos later, but this year
       | 
       | * us only
       | 
       | * free for 2 years on pixel 9 phone, but probably would cost more
       | later?
       | 
       | If you go on a lot of backcountry trips, maybe you already have
       | something like a Garmin device with paid in-reach service with
       | texting and emergency service button - no voice support. I have
       | this, it works well. You can do 2 way texting, also you can have
       | your location uploaded as you travel if you wish.
        
         | S201 wrote:
         | Plus Garmin devices use the Iridium network which has truly
         | global coverage (as opposed to Globalstar which is only in
         | select areas of the world) as well as other features useful for
         | non-emergency backcountry travel. I won't be dropping my Garmin
         | InReach any time soon.
        
           | DebtDeflation wrote:
           | Correct. Globalstar is a "bent pipe analog repeater" network.
           | They have ground gateway stations that provide connectivity
           | from their satellites to the public switched telephone
           | network and internet. In order for your handheld to work, you
           | need a satellite in view and that satellite must have a
           | ground gateway station in view. Iridium doesn't have that
           | latter requirement. I won't be getting rid of my InReach Mini
           | anytime soon.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | On the other hand, that "bent pipe" nature is what allowed
             | Globalstar to support a (presumably) completely new type of
             | protocol and modulation over existing, decades-old
             | satellites!
             | 
             | Apple has also been adding new ground stations as part of
             | their agreement with Globalstar, which has, among other
             | things, added coverage to Hawaii. I'm pretty sure they have
             | much larger plans for this than just emergency texting.
        
           | charles_f wrote:
           | Plus the fact that the inReach has a mad battery life, and is
           | a very simple and dependable device.
        
           | switchbak wrote:
           | I know someone on our local SAR team that had mentioned they
           | were having issues with folks using the Apple devices for SOS
           | that resulted in long delays. This is for coastal British
           | Columbia, so perhaps not a universal experience - but
           | something to keep in mind.
           | 
           | Personally, I'd stick with the better known option, and like
           | another commenter said - the battery life on the Garmins are
           | pretty amazing, and it doesn't weight much.
        
           | not2b wrote:
           | I do a lot of solo hiking and use a Garmin with InReach in
           | case of emergency and to reassure my wife, it can also send
           | my position every N minutes (I usually set it for 20 when on
           | the trails in an area with limited or no cell phone
           | coverage). I wouldn't mind if similar functionality becomes
           | common on cell phones.
        
         | thedman9052 wrote:
         | How much is the subscription for the Garmin device? I'm curious
         | because I bought my parents a personal locator beacon, since
         | they are retired and hike constantly. It costs more up front
         | but has no subscription, and I didn't want to gift something
         | with a high recurring cost. There's no communication option,
         | it's all or nothing - if it's activated they send the
         | helicopters. On the plus side, it has a fixed 7 year battery
         | life, so no need to worry about charging or it dying when you
         | need it (if you remember the expiration date). I'm curious what
         | Google will charge for their SOS feature and how it will
         | compare to PLV or a satellite communicator.
        
           | NotSammyHagar wrote:
           | It's not cheap, about $12/month is cheapest plan,
           | https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461. Pay 0.10c for tracking
           | points, you have 10 text messages a month.
           | 
           | If you use it a lot, you'll start to increase your fees, I'm
           | on the next higher plan which I think is $35/m. I should
           | revisit that, it's a lot over a year ;-)
           | 
           | They have the basic devices (connect with phone, or emergency
           | button), I have the one with maps built in. That one is
           | awesome, it has worldwide city and trail maps. Maps works
           | without a subscription, but I do use it for trips where there
           | is no phone service more to get text messages.
        
             | dgacmu wrote:
             | They also charge you for time spent with service suspended.
             | We finally canceled ours when my wife got an iphone with
             | satellite SOS - it was pretty expensive for something we
             | would typically use (activate, not actually use - we've
             | never had to SOS) one or two months per year.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | I assume you meant 10c and not 0.1c.
             | 
             | (See https://verizonmath.blogspot.com/)
        
               | NotSammyHagar wrote:
               | yes, sorry
        
           | GloriousKoji wrote:
           | It's $120 per year or $15 per month. That covers the SOS, 10
           | text messages and unlimited check-in messages.
           | 
           | https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461/pn/010-06003-SU
        
           | settsu wrote:
           | One thing to bear in mind is that the iPhone based satellite
           | connection is highly directional, meaning whoever is using it
           | needs to be conscious and able to follow the on-screen
           | instructions to align the phone with a certain point in the
           | sky (within a few angular degrees.)
           | 
           | Whereas, in contrast, the Garmin inReach devices need "only"
           | a clear sky view.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | TBF that's what Apple did, basically.
         | 
         | It wasn't in the initial release. Needed a software update 2
         | months later or so.
         | 
         | You were only supposed to get 1 year (?) of service. But they
         | extended that by a year.
         | 
         | Because of that everyone with a qualifying phone is still in
         | the "free" stage so we still don't know what it will cost. Or
         | when that will start.
         | 
         | If ever.
         | 
         | I've never used it but I like that my iPhone has it. I would
         | never carry a Garmin (city/suburb life, no point) but I know
         | the satellite is there if needed.
         | 
         | I think Apple is expanding it to iMessage this year (text only)
         | though for all we know that will cost extra.
        
           | brookst wrote:
           | It's doubtful they'll ever charge for SOS. The "one year, one
           | more year" thing is likely to make the accounting and
           | liability work out. If they had just said "free for the life
           | of the phone" it would have locked them into providing the
           | service for many years, and required revenue deferral for
           | many years. Easier to just under-promise.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | > You were only supposed to get 1 year (?) of service. But
           | they extended that by a year.
           | 
           | I suspect they wanted to gauge what the usage (and therefore
           | cost to them) would be like before making any promises.
           | 
           | I would not be surprised if satellite messaging ends up
           | costing after the first year, but that satellite SOS remains
           | free forever. After all, who wants the reputation hit when
           | someone ends up dying in the wilderness because they didn't
           | keep up their satellite payments?
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | They can charge you after you get rescued. Or does that
             | come out as a negligible amount?
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Even if you managed to charge people (or their SAR
               | insurances) tens of thousands of dollars per rescue, I'm
               | not sure that would entirely pay for running such a
               | service.
               | 
               | But I suspect their actual business model will be to
               | charge for non-emergency messaging, which might just be
               | able to subsidize the emergency use case.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | Are there cases of people actually being charged for
               | their backcountry rescues? I know it's theoretically
               | allowed many places but I'm not aware of anyone actually
               | being billed.
               | 
               | Generally, SAR teams would rather the R continue to stand
               | for Rescue rather than Recovery (of a body).
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | As soon as SAR involves a helicopter, I remember hearing
               | you're looking at a hefty bill in many places, even if
               | the SAR teams themselves don't charge anything. (Not sure
               | why/how that is the case - maybe the helicopter is often
               | operated by a for-profit company, essentially taking the
               | SAR crew as passenger?)
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | Yeah, I'd imagine the helicopter is where the big expense
               | lies and those are mostly private hires. The SAR teams
               | around me are first responders already on duty or
               | volunteers. They still have expenses when launching a
               | mission but driving a dozen people to a trailhead is
               | cheaper than a chopper.
        
           | settsu wrote:
           | When you're in SOS mode, you can use the satellite connection
           | to manually update your location--separate of the emergency
           | response service--so anyone who you've chosen to share that
           | with can see it, as well as in Find My. I'm often out of cell
           | service in the mountains and will usually push the location
           | once I'm in the general area I plan to be for a while.
        
         | trompetenaccoun wrote:
         | Only works in the US and not even in all states. Ridiculous.
         | What's the point of satellites to then be so geo-restricted?
        
           | brookst wrote:
           | Regulations don't much care about what's technically
           | possible.
        
             | zukzuk wrote:
             | Apple was able to make it work in most "developed"
             | countries (do we have a better term for these countries
             | now?). I guess they're just better at the regulatory game?
        
               | trompetenaccoun wrote:
               | Also why would regulations prevent them from operating in
               | Alaska, for example? I'm sure the Alaskan government
               | would be happy to provide better emergency connectivity,
               | highly doubt regulation is the issue. People are already
               | being rescued, this here happened in 2022:
               | 
               | https://www.businessinsider.com/stranded-man-alaska-
               | rescued-...
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Google presumably uses Skylo, and that's only available
               | in some regions.
               | 
               | I believe they currently only use Terrestar-1 and
               | Terrestar-2, with Inmarsat to follow some time this year
               | for almost global coverage.
               | 
               | Terrestar-1 covers the lower 48 US states with one spot
               | beam, and Alaska and Hawaii with another one each, but I
               | believe the latter two ones are relatively new, so maybe
               | Google isn't using these yet?
               | 
               | I suspect this because I've used a Motorola Defy
               | Satellite Link for the past year, which uses IoT-NTN just
               | like the Pixel's baseband, and it's only been available
               | in Europe and the lower 48 at launch (i.e. also with
               | Hawaii and Alaska missing).
               | 
               | [1] https://www.satbeams.com/satellites?norad=35496
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | It's available in 17 countries so far. That's a long shot
               | from "all developed countries" by most metrics.
               | 
               | And this really does seem to be largely due to
               | regulations (and probably also integration with local
               | emergency services), as there is no geographic pattern to
               | availability.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | Not sure, but it may have to do with Apple using the
               | Globalstar satellites.
        
           | Keyframe wrote:
           | That's Google for you. I bought Pixel 8 Pro when it came out,
           | after I had Samsung (never was into iPhone, my wife has those
           | though). I regretted pretty much right away. Heavy AF
           | compared to Galaxy, cool features US-locked, EU means nothing
           | to that company since it looked like they haven't even
           | applied for licenses for cool shit in EU - had to fake my SIM
           | to be in US just to unlock thermometer etc.. I will not buy
           | any device from them anytime soon.
        
       | roughly wrote:
       | I'm an iPhone guy, but - there _are_ other designs for phones,
       | right? The squircle corners, the shiny metal band surrounding the
       | matte back, the aqua-pill-shaped buttons, the colors - Google is
       | a $2T company, there's gotta be an industrial designer somewhere
       | in the building or some process for phone design that doesn't
       | take place in Cupertino, right?
        
         | supertrope wrote:
         | Profitable products attract copycat designs. Samsung copied no
         | removable battery and the metal used. The first Google phone
         | was a Blackberry style layout until Apple popularized the all
         | touchscreen design.
        
           | supertrope wrote:
           | Apple copied bigger screens and Android's notifications.
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | Mobile phone design peaked with the Nokia 3110 and the Motorola
         | MicroTAC, and it's been downhill ever since.
        
           | lysace wrote:
           | My fav iconic Nokia design was the 7600:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7600 ;)
        
             | greenchair wrote:
             | mind blown
        
         | jerjerjer wrote:
         | Rounded rectangle clearly won the form factor wars.
        
         | jocaal wrote:
         | That phone isn't a squircle, it is a rounded square. Those
         | rounded edges seem to be inspired by google material design.
         | Also phones have converged to the metal band, glass back before
         | the iphone did it. Mobile phones are a mature technology and
         | their designs have converged to the designs people are buying.
        
           | cdrini wrote:
           | I really wonder if consumers have any influence on phone
           | designs. People generally buy phones for completely different
           | reasons, the design just has to be "not bad" which generally
           | means just take whatevers available that meets your actual
           | criteria (OS, camera quality, etc). After all you'll probably
           | have to slap a case on it anyways.
        
           | jay_kyburz wrote:
           | I really like the design of this red magic phone.
           | 
           | https://global.redmagic.gg/pages/redmagic-9-pro
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | Rounded corners is a mechanical design thing, mostly.
        
         | GZGavinZhao wrote:
         | My favorite phone design is the Meizu 16 series, especially its
         | white variant (search for Meizu 16s Pro unicorn, it's just
         | gorgeous). The 16 series is the last series before Meizu also
         | succumbed to the "mainstream" designs such as big screen size,
         | punched-hole screens, and weird camera layouts.
        
         | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
         | There is a vibrant Chinese Android scene, with their own fairly
         | stand-out design trends. One design that's pretty popular right
         | now is the "large circle", as exemplified by Xiaomi 14 Ultra.
         | My favorites in this theme are the ZTE Z50s Pro (IMHO just a
         | gorgeous phone) and the Honor Magic6 Pro.
        
           | Foobar8568 wrote:
           | Huawei released a phone with a retractable lens and 1 inch
           | main sensor, fairly unique for a phone first type of device.
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | photography nerds rejoice
        
           | myaccountonhn wrote:
           | > ZTE Z50s Pro (IMHO just a gorgeous phone)
           | 
           | Woah that is a nice looking phone. Too bad the thing is
           | massive.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | It could be worse, it could be TV where back rarely seen and
         | only gimmick after maximum bezel thinness is display thinness
         | until samsung decided to add a frame. At some point design gets
         | optimized to death. Have to look towards niche segments like
         | gaming phones with extra buttons, ventilation, ports etc.
         | 
         | That said, I just want a phone with a modernized 5 way switch
         | rocker to scroll with thumb.
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | I like the small radius corners of my Pixel 6a. I hope it will
         | last because I can't see myself switching to a recent Pixel
         | with those huge squircle corners.
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | I know people like to claim Apple designs and everyone else
         | copy, but that's not what's happening.
         | 
         | Everyone is converging to the same design, Apple like the
         | others. They all borrow from each other until they all look the
         | same.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | No problem, no one will use squares with rounded corners as
         | long as iphones go back to the "perfect" design with a small
         | phone and small screen that apple forever insisted was the
         | perfect phone design, instead of larger screens that android
         | had and apple now uses.
        
         | name_nick_sex_m wrote:
         | No there is not
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | Its super frustrating how the entire industry follows Apple;
         | incapable of original thought. The Pixel 8 had somewhat rounded
         | edges, which is fantastic for a comfortable grip. Apple killed
         | rounded corners and converted to the squared-off design with
         | the iPhone 12; and everyone has followed suit since. Galaxy
         | phones used to have curved edge displays; now they're squared
         | off, because Apple. Samsung's watches are generally circular,
         | but they had to go squircle with their Ultra variant, because
         | Apple. Apple does Titanium; Samsung has to do Titanium; no one
         | gives a flying shit about titanium!
         | 
         | I would bet every dollar in my pocket that Apple is intending
         | to convert back to a more rounded design with the iPhone 17,
         | and the S26 and Pixel 11 will follow suit.
         | 
         | Begging+pleading for the googung corpodrones to have just one
         | original idea, even if its only "we're gonna do it this way
         | simply to spite Apple" (they won't).
        
       | figmert wrote:
       | No desktop mode?
        
       | cogman10 wrote:
       | No Qi2 is really silly. A full year to integrate this in your
       | phone design and you punted. It's really just adding a few
       | magnets google, come on.
        
       | bfrog wrote:
       | I went through many moto/samsung/google phones. Every single one
       | sucked ass after about a year or two. Wasn't a big deal when the
       | phones came with contract renewals. Became a major deciding
       | factor to abandon them when I had to hand over my own cash.
       | 
       | If I'm paying 500+ for a device it needs to you know... last more
       | than a few years.
        
         | ranza wrote:
         | Im still on a pixel 5 pro and it works great. Thats a 4 year
         | old device. Im actually surprised how well it still holds up
         | today
        
         | bcook wrote:
         | I paid $1000 cash for my Samsung Galaxy S10+ and the 51/2+
         | years with it have been flawless.
         | 
         | I was very hesitant to spend $1000 on my first smartphone but
         | if it can easily last 5 years, I'm impressed.
         | 
         | Even now, I can't think of a reason to upgrade aside from
         | wanting a new, shiny gadget.
        
         | ayoisaiah wrote:
         | This hasn't been a problem on Android in 7-8 years. I bought my
         | S10+ brand new in 2019, and it still works flawlessly till
         | today (well, except the battery).
         | 
         | The S7 Edge was the last time I experienced slowdowns after 1-2
         | years.
        
       | kokada wrote:
       | I may switch this time since they're finally offering trade-in
       | offers here in Ireland. I like my Pixel 6, but wanted a better
       | camera for a while (to be clear, the Pixel 6 camera is really
       | good, especially considering the price the phone was, but I still
       | miss things like e.g. better optical zoom), so I may get a Pixel
       | 9 Pro.
       | 
       | BTW, for those talking about issues: I bought my Pixel 6 at
       | release, and yes, I had some strange Bluetooth issues during a
       | few months. Not anymore, and for a while the phone is solid.
       | 
       | Also, this is probably the first phone that I have that I don't
       | feel the battery got worse after 2+ years of usage, maybe thanks
       | to the Adaptive Battery. My wife iPhone 12 (that she bought
       | around at the same time as me) already had a ok-ish battery when
       | she bought, but nowadays the battery is just plain sucks (battery
       | health is 87%, that doesn't explain the whole story), one of the
       | reason that she may switch to a Pixel too. Another thing I like
       | from my Pixel is after those 2 years, the phone still feels
       | snappy. I know people like to say that Tensor CPUs are bad, but I
       | never had any issues with them.
       | 
       | I don't like the fact that Google increased the prices though:
       | Pixel 6 was an amazing value for EUR649, but at EUR919 the Pro
       | looks a more interesting choice since the gap reduced between the
       | two. I think the reason is because the Pixel a series is such an
       | amazing value that nobody care about the normal Pixel anymore,
       | but if anything this is Google's fault.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | I'm currently on the 6 and one issue it has is a pretty bad
         | battery drain. Every so often it gets into superheating mode
         | where the CPU is doing... something... and the phone gets
         | wicked hot. I've even replaced the battery and the problem
         | persists.
         | 
         | I don't care much about photos so the 9 really just doesn't
         | have anything that would make me want to buy it. I'll probably
         | be holding on to my 6 until it reaches the end of its security
         | updates.
        
           | nixosbestos wrote:
           | Do you think this is recent? I've been using a Pixel 6A for
           | over a year, this current one only a few months. In the last
           | few weeks it has started (seemingly) randomly getting _quite_
           | warm.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | It's been better for me, it doesn't happen nearly as often
             | as it used to. The worst of it was around the beginning of
             | this year.
        
           | kokada wrote:
           | For me, when I am using the phone during roaming or in
           | situations when the signal is bad, I can see increased
           | battery drain and the phone itself sometimes gets hot. I
           | assume this is the bad Exynos modem, but I heard the new
           | modem for Pixel 9 will be focused in efficiency for the first
           | time (still Exynos though), so I am hopeful that the
           | situation is better because this is the only time the
           | hardware from my Pixel 6 bothers me.
        
         | conradfr wrote:
         | I have a Pixel 7 and the battery feels like it has gone down a
         | bit. Hard to tell as it has never been great to begin with...
         | 
         | It was a good deal at the time with the free Pixel Buds Pro,
         | but I surprisingly liked my previous phone better (One Plus 5).
        
         | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
         | Curious that you say this, because I had a 6 Pro and while all
         | the rest was amazing, what ended up making me hate the phone
         | was the battery.
         | 
         | My experience in that respect was just the opposite of yours:
         | just barely OK at the beginning, and quick degradation in spite
         | of the adaptive battery. In 2 years it wouldn't even make it to
         | 3 PM in days of heavy usage. Definitely much worse than the
         | batteries in my friends' iPhones, and of course also than all
         | the other Android phones I've had, some of which lasted (or are
         | still lasting) for more than 5 years with battery being a
         | complete non-issue.
         | 
         | I wonder if it's a 6 vs 6 Pro issue or I just got a bad unit
         | (I'm not the only one I know with the complaint, though, so if
         | it's the latter, bad units were rather common).
        
       | etempleton wrote:
       | Looks great. Really nicely designed except that camera bump is
       | intense. I like having nice cameras on my phone, but I wish we
       | could go back to the flush camera design. I guess they know you
       | will put a case on it anyway.
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | These price increases for what appears to be marginal upgrades is
       | such a splash of cold water.
        
       | ein0p wrote:
       | Nutty pricing. Google is not, and will never be, a "premium
       | brand".
        
         | pphysch wrote:
         | Good
        
       | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
       | Do they have an Apple Airtag / Samsung SmartTag style tracking
       | dongle, and an UWB model phone that works with it?
       | 
       | Phone tech specs: both models have "Ultra-Wideband chip for
       | accurate ranging and spatial orientation"
       | 
       | Tracking tag: ??
       | 
       | Any experiences with that?
        
       | jmakov wrote:
       | How does GrapheneOS perform on the fold?
        
       | blfr wrote:
       | How much of a limitation is that Tensor processor? Seems like the
       | last of its line and below the performance of other flaghship
       | phones.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | I have a pixel 8 pro and the camera is amazing
        
       | RigelKentaurus wrote:
       | I don't see anything that wants me to upgrade my four-year old
       | iPhone 12. (TBH, it's not just about these new Pixel phones; I
       | don't know whether I will upgrade in the next 3-4 years.)
       | 
       | Minor rant: All of this powerful technology, and yet the examples
       | they can come up with are always about e-commerce/shopping,
       | photos, calendaring etc. Why can't they talk about something more
       | fundamentally useful, like a feature that would reduce your phone
       | usage or budget better, etc.? I guess I can dream.
        
       | SlavikCA wrote:
       | > Video formats: HEVC (H.265), AVC (H.264)
       | 
       | So much for supporting Open Source AV1...
        
       | eBombzor wrote:
       | Terrible prices, rather get a iPhone 15 at this point
        
       | epolanski wrote:
       | Lack of proper dual sim (with two nano sims) is what made me not
       | buy the previous gen and I guess this as well gets skipped.
       | 
       | It such a small feature that 200$ Xiaomi phones have and Google's
       | flagship do not, because people in their silicon valley bubble
       | can't understand there's many carries in the world that don't
       | support esims properly or the issues that people that live in two
       | countries need to face.
        
       | oezi wrote:
       | Can someone explain why we get 12GB and 16GB RAM in these phones,
       | but Apple sells its MacBook Air M3 with 8GB as the starting
       | configuration.
       | 
       | Shouldn't mobile phones require much less RAM?
        
         | jmole wrote:
         | This is what happens when your phone and all it's apps are
         | written in a garbage collected language.
        
           | trompetenaccoun wrote:
           | Yep. I still use the iphone 7+ as a backup phone, it still
           | gets security updates and runs modern apps fine with 3GB!
           | Slow compared to modern phones, but that's not down to the
           | RAM, the memory management is amazing, never had an issue.
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | That's a gross misrepresentation, and far from the whole
           | truth. (Besides, ref counting is also a garbage collection
           | algorithm)
           | 
           | A huge chunk of the OS runs native stuff. Add to it that
           | android is less strict at putting apps/processes to sleep,
           | it's become a much less black and white question.
        
       | hereforcomments wrote:
       | I'm still on Pixel 2XL. The battery is not that good anymore but
       | has no issues with the phone. I'd definitely not spend 1k on a
       | phone. A Pixel 7 Pro is now a much better deal.
        
       | fidotron wrote:
       | I don't know how anyone could possibly trust a premium product
       | from Google, regardless of how good the specs are. Their entire
       | approach to QA and privacy is anti-premium.
       | 
       | When Google bought HTC the idea was the best of Google software
       | and the best of HTC hardware, but we have Google level hardware
       | and HTC level software. The glory days of the HTC One were a
       | decade ago.
        
         | wavemode wrote:
         | Reminds me of that old joke: "Canada could have had British
         | culture, French food, and American industry. Instead they ended
         | up with American culture, British food, and French industry."
        
         | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
         | HTC software wasn't bad at all IMO, it was among the less
         | bloated Android layers of the time.
         | 
         | I had three HTC flagships back in the glory days and they were
         | amazing machines, their only problem was that most people
         | preferred to buy the likes of Samsung despite being much worse
         | in almost every respect (software, camera, design, durability,
         | etc.). I don't know if due to bad marketing by HTC or just
         | because they bought reviewers less (they used to have a blatant
         | pro-Samsung bias).
         | 
         | Then of course quality actually degraded when they had to make
         | huge personnel cuts due to bad sales.
        
         | denysvitali wrote:
         | Reminds me of an issue I had with the Nexus 6P: when I wanted
         | to get it fixed (I think it was an issue with the ambiental
         | microphone) Huawei said it was a software issue and Google said
         | it was a HW issue.
         | 
         | In the end, none of the two companies fixed the problem, and my
         | 6P eventually died randomly one day.
         | 
         | So, this Google software and X hardware story is very similar
         | to yours w/ HTC, except that if they don't buy the company it's
         | better for them as they can just throw the problem over the
         | fence to the other company. What a clown show
        
       | underlogic wrote:
       | Wouldn't accept it as a gift after having several generations of
       | Pixel phone. Half baked software. Also Apple has hammered Google
       | on privacy and rightfully so. There's a 0 chance I'll use android
       | handsets again regardless of the hardware.
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | GrapheneOS is a thing.
        
       | DebtDeflation wrote:
       | The Pixel 10 will have a TSMC manufactured chip. I'm keeping my
       | Pixel 6 Pro for another year.
        
       | cipheredStones wrote:
       | My current phone, a Pixel 6 Pro, is becoming unusable due to
       | screen flickering.* I have an unopened Pixel 8 Pro on my desk
       | that I got for ~$700 after cashback during Prime Day last month,
       | and I've been waiting for this launch so I could consider the
       | possibility of returning it and getting the new model.
       | 
       | So far, looking at this, I can't find any differences between the
       | 8 Pro and the 9 Pro XL that I think I'd actually notice. It would
       | be kind of nice to get the smaller 9 Pro for the sake of my
       | wrists, but not enough to pay an extra $400 for.
       | 
       | Am I missing anything? Or is this just a heavily hyped release of
       | a tiny incremental upgrade?
       | 
       | *I'd be more inclined to hold this against Google and not get
       | another Pixel if my previous phone, a Samsung flagship, hadn't
       | died in approximately the same way after approximately the same
       | lifespan.
        
       | baggachipz wrote:
       | I have to log in with a google account to view the product in
       | their store? Kthxbye.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | No you don't
        
           | baggachipz wrote:
           | It asked me to. Guess it's because I have logged in to a
           | google property before. I'm sure they wouldn't be tracking my
           | views.... right?
        
       | H1Supreme wrote:
       | I was initially excited at the announcement of the "fold" phone,
       | but then I saw it's effectively two phone screens, instead of one
       | folded in half. Sigh...
       | 
       | I have a Pixel 3a, and it's still larger than I'd like. I realize
       | that the market for folks who would prefer something smaller is,
       | well, small. But, I look at the phone landscape, and I hate every
       | one of them. I like the Pixel, because it's stock Android. I wish
       | they would release a Pixel "Basic" or something. 5.5" screen,
       | basic camera, no AI bullshit. Just a no-frills basic phone.
        
         | spondylosaurus wrote:
         | One of the folding Samsung phones is the "single screen that
         | folds in half like a flip phone" style! Played with one for a
         | minute in Best Buy and it was pleasantly compact.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | If those weren't so expensive, I'd get one in a heartbeat.
           | It's downright luxurious!
        
             | spondylosaurus wrote:
             | Yeah, the main dealbreakers at this point seem to be (1)
             | price, (2) battery life, since it's literally a smaller
             | battery, and (3) vulnerability to debris. I've heard people
             | say that you shouldn't take a folding phone to the beach
             | because the sand can wreck those flex screens.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | What's your concern about it being two screens?
        
       | mrnaught wrote:
       | Design looks almost like iPhone. Seems like the design patents
       | have expired.
        
       | roschdal wrote:
       | Why is it so big, heavy and expensive?
        
       | astrodude wrote:
       | Love the camera on pixels, hopefully this one takes it to next
       | level.
        
       | vicek22 wrote:
       | > Plus, your phone comes with 7 years of OS and security updates.
       | 
       | Way to go, the 7 years of updates was the reason I bought my
       | Pixel 8 Pro
        
       | devit wrote:
       | It would be nice to have some competition.
       | 
       | Right now basically you are forced to buy a Pixel phone, because
       | if you don't buy an iOS or Android device you don't have apps, if
       | you buy an iOS device you lose your freedom, and if you don't buy
       | a Pixel phone you don't have timely updates and GrapheneOS and
       | thus don't have an open source, frequently updated and well-
       | engineered OS.
        
       | summerlight wrote:
       | I'm surprised that no media outlet is seriously talking about its
       | on-device inference capability, which is the biggest next thing
       | for LLM. Apple did a better job on its PR here, but they didn't
       | also get all the attention that it deserves.
       | 
       | On-device inference improves not just its latency, this also
       | removes a huge chunk of LLM's economical constraints from
       | software companies. The biggest advantage of software is its
       | marginal cost being nearly zero. LLM hasn't enjoyed this luxuries
       | but the dynamic is going to change.
        
         | pvarangot wrote:
         | It's good for privacy so media companies probably don't want
         | you to know it exists.
        
         | jasonvorhe wrote:
         | Let's wait until it actually ships and if it'll work offline.
         | Last few times Google sold Pixels on dedicated AI hardware it
         | wasn't even used and instead offloaded to their cloud services,
         | making them slow and often blocking app UI until it's either
         | finished or timed out.
        
         | Beretta_Vexee wrote:
         | For years, Google has been promising me a high-performance
         | voice assistant. I find that in 2024 it still can't understand
         | "call mom" and "call my wife's name" unless I'm in a perfectly
         | silent environment. And it usually takes several tries.
         | 
         | I'm not going to get carried away with technical announcements.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | What's even worse for me is that it regularly "forgets" how
           | to respond to queries that it could serve perfectly well
           | before, especially related to smart home things.
           | 
           | "Play <local radio station x> on living room stereo" has been
           | hit and miss for my parents to the point where I regret
           | setting them up with a Chromecast-supporting AV receiver and
           | Google Nest speaker. They now just use the regular remote and
           | listen to the station via FM.
        
             | Beretta_Vexee wrote:
             | If you're unlucky enough to be bilingual, it's a complet
             | joke. It's a real shame, because it makes this function
             | useless for the people who need it most, those who can't
             | type easily on a phone (visual challenges), or have
             | difficulty transcribing names in a foreign language.
             | 
             | It could help millions of elderly people stay independent a
             | little longer. But no instead, they were trying to sell us
             | generative AI and photo filter.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | The weird thing is that they just don't seem to care
               | about improving it. WhisperX can process my speech just
               | fine, but Google assistant can't. That's the lowest bar
               | to clear and they don't need to invent any new tech for
               | it - there's a number of solutions ready to go right now.
        
           | parthdesai wrote:
           | Google's voice assistant is leaps and bounds better than next
           | best thing available on a cell phone, Siri.
        
           | throitallaway wrote:
           | Telling my Pixel 8's assistant to "set an alarm for 10
           | minutes" fails when it's not connected to the internet (after
           | spinning for a few seconds.) That's crazy to me. I thought
           | offline voice for basic things was working back in the Nexus
           | days.
           | 
           | I travel a lot and often find myself in areas with poor or no
           | connectivity, and things "get a little freaky" in those
           | scenarios. Even things like Google Maps (which has
           | downloaded/offline mode) often fail or spin for 30 seconds. I
           | think Google/Android engineers don't test these scenarios
           | enough (or at all), and they're usually bathed in perfect
           | connections.
        
           | SamBam wrote:
           | Yeah, I think the LLM for everything crazy is stupid, but I
           | do wish there were a little more of it in the Google
           | Assistant. Then I could finally say "Text Bob 'Home in 5'"
           | and not have it reply "Sorry, I don't have a 'Home' number
           | for Bob."
        
           | seydor wrote:
           | I dont know, it works perfect for my (non-native) accent even
           | in the noisy car environment with a super-slow car unit. It's
           | really good
        
         | crote wrote:
         | People are getting pretty tired of AI. Just about every tech
         | company is shilling "AI", without actually selling anything
         | which is _useful_ for most consumers. On the other hand, just
         | about everyone is being drowned in AI-generated garbage. To a
         | lot of people,  "on-device inference capability" is identical
         | to "FlarzBuz engine to power Garbage Generation".
         | 
         | Also, I'd disagree with it going to change the economics behind
         | it. Sure, offloading the hardware and power cost of inference
         | on the consumer is going to make it cheaper for the AI
         | companies, but they're still going to have to spend an absolute
         | fortune on training. And how are they going to sell it if it
         | runs on _your_ device? The tech industry has been trying to
         | push everything _away_ from on-device code in order to sell
         | subscription-based cloud services! Who 's going to pay a
         | subscription or per-query fee simply for the right to run a
         | pretty mediocre app?
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | Not only does it free the device manufacturers but it's
         | something they can offer to app developer for free without
         | costing them anything. Personally I think this is what will be
         | the biggest impact (When/If they open raw "api" access to 3rd
         | party devs). There are whole slews of apps that could make of
         | that in small or major ways if it's not something the developer
         | has to price into the app/subscription (especially with usage
         | being something that can vary greatly user-to-user).
         | 
         | Some random examples I just came up with:
         | 
         | * Podcast app does STT for transcriptions/"subtitles" as well
         | as episode summarization (Even cooler if the podcast provides
         | chapter markers)
         | 
         | * Games getting new and interesting types of NPC's, level
         | generation, etc
         | 
         | * Filters that do more than keyword matching (for news/social
         | apps). I can technically filter out political Spam SMS messages
         | but only with regex/keyword matching.
         | 
         | * Catch-up on 3rd party chat app conversations
         | 
         | I know LLMs will make plenty of mistakes and are far from
         | perfect but there are things they can do very well that are
         | very hard or expensive to do (sometimes just for indie-level
         | devs but also for small/medium businesses). To be able to do
         | those for free and offline would be a gamechanger.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | How useful is it really? It s a novelty, and as language are
         | going to get truly useful and reasonable, the small llms will
         | be nothing but a novelty item that drains the battery.
        
       | stronglikedan wrote:
       | I wish they'd make one to compete with Samsung Galaxy, so I could
       | ditch the Samsung ecosystem.
        
       | maxglute wrote:
       | Pixels were great phones at half the price.
        
       | jjcm wrote:
       | Lots of comments about the camera bump. I'm glad they at least
       | went for a symmetrical bump so the phone lays flat rather than
       | iPhone's "off to the left" style bump. I don't mind a non-flat
       | phone, but at least make it symmetrical.
        
         | greatgib wrote:
         | This is a valid point, but in my experience, the further the
         | camera is from the side, the most annoying to use it is.
         | 
         | Like sometimes you want to take something in picture with a
         | difficult angle or small opening. Or for example being in the
         | middle means that there will not be space for fingers when
         | holding the phone for a picture.
        
       | ayoisaiah wrote:
       | There's no reason to upgrade a phone more than once in five years
       | at least for me.
       | 
       | I bought a an iPhone 15 Pro Max few months ago and compared it to
       | my S10+ which I bought in 2019 and still have. There's
       | practically no difference for regular day to day stuff, except
       | for the camera advancements which are notable (but not night &
       | day either).
       | 
       | It was only the frustrating battery life, and desire to enter the
       | superior iPhone camera ecosystem that forced me to upgrade.
        
         | bsaul wrote:
         | I've always thought android phones had similar battery
         | capabilities than iphones.. How worse are they ?
        
           | ayoisaiah wrote:
           | I mean, my S10+ is 5 years old now so it's definitely going
           | to be worse. I'm sure the latest devices are ~on par.
        
       | denysvitali wrote:
       | The keynote seems to only focus on the Pixel 9 software
       | capabilities.
       | 
       | Honestly, why is this important? Aside from all the AI hype, I
       | don't see why the event should be so focused on features that are
       | purely software updates that will most likely propagate to other
       | non Pixel devices.
       | 
       | It's just a bummer that the event focused so much on the AI
       | features instead of the HW capabilities: probably they don't have
       | much to show this year.
       | 
       | I just hope they fixed the numerous HW issues the previous Pixel
       | devices had (e.g: overheating, radio, ...)
        
       | RealCodingOtaku wrote:
       | One day, the pixel and the stock android will have the ability to
       | hide the navigation pill/ gesture bar[0]. On that day, the
       | screenshots of these products pages will be of the complete
       | screen instead of the top half.
       | 
       | [0] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/288400051
        
         | soganess wrote:
         | I didn't realize that wasn't available in stock Android until
         | your comment! I'm guessing you know, but for everyone else,
         | it's been available in Lineage OS... Maybe since the switchover
         | to the "thin pill" format?
         | 
         | Genuinely, you gotta love those altOS nerds. 'Giving you stuff
         | you didn't even know you needed.
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | That's whack, I have this on my Motorola and I thought they
         | were basically stock.
         | 
         | The gestures are so frustrating to use I can't believe they
         | were devised by a human being, but at least I don't have to
         | look at a nav bar all day
        
       | mihaic wrote:
       | I abhor all these phones with a glass back, that look great in
       | the store and then everyone puts an ugly back cover on.
       | 
       | I'm still rocking a Pixel 5, which is actually my second Pixel 5.
       | I really like using it without a case. It's light, small, can
       | handle a fall without the back shattering, and I like the matte
       | finish.
       | 
       | All I want is a version with more modern specs, but every
       | manufacturer keeps optimizing for the advertising shots, and
       | people keep falling for this. Right now the camera is the only
       | thing tempting me to upgrade, but I'll probably wait another
       | year.
        
         | AuryGlenz wrote:
         | You don't _need_ to put a case on phones. I 've had an iPhone
         | 11 since it came out, with no case, and quite a few drops onto
         | hard floors. It's still fine.
         | 
         | Obviously there's some luck involved but the only time I put a
         | case on a (in that case, Samsung) phone it shattered the first
         | time I dropped it. So, I figured I might as well go without
         | again. I've yet to have an iPhone break from a fall, only from
         | leaning up against something with it in my pocket.
        
           | mihaic wrote:
           | Sure, I won't put a case on my next phone as well, even if
           | it's glass, but most people do use a case, which keeps
           | incentivizing manufacturer to get away with more fragile
           | designs.
           | 
           | I'm mostly lamenting on how durability is a niche value for
           | one of the most widely used objects in our lives.
        
           | leokennis wrote:
           | You're right that a case does little against big drops - with
           | or without case, either you're lucky and the phone survives
           | or it doesn't.
           | 
           | Cases prevent scratches but, meh, I wouldn't mind a few
           | scratches on the back of my phone.
           | 
           | However the main attraction of a case to me is: grip. My
           | iPhone 15 Pro Max feels more slippery than a bar of soap.
           | Unless I exert a lot of force, it just slips out of my hand
           | while using it.
        
         | RadiozRadioz wrote:
         | Many often cite the wireless charging argument, but often
         | forget that there are many people who don't care about wireless
         | charging and would prefer a durable phone.
        
       | tlhunter wrote:
       | I find it super annoying that the base model's camera doesn't
       | offer RAW photo support. Surely this is just a software
       | limitation since the Pro version shares two of the same cameras.
        
       | stare_spb wrote:
       | Unfortunately, for PWM-sensitive people like me, Google hasn't
       | taken the hint and improved its PWM rate. The Pixel 9 series
       | utilizes 240Hz PWM dimming across the board, meaning the Pixel
       | now has the slowest PWM rate on any major phone.
       | 
       | From AndroidCentral review.
        
       | 8organicbits wrote:
       | What's the selling points here for upgrades? Comparing my five
       | year old A50, I'm not seeing it. Presumably a better camera, and
       | more RAM (why?). I felt compelled to upgrade in past years, but I
       | feel like phone tech reached a plateau. The AI features, front
       | and center, feel like hype. Haven't found them useful at all.
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | The AI features. More RAM is needed for those. If you don't
         | care about them then you're probably not going to want to
         | upgrade.
        
           | EasyMark wrote:
           | I thought Android was going to do AI features in the cloud
           | rather than on the phone?
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | Wikipedia tells me the Galaxy A50 got its last security update
         | in February of last year, FWIW.
        
           | RadiozRadioz wrote:
           | But its Google Play Services (which includes WebView) +
           | Chrome all receive regular updates independently.
           | 
           | People put a lot more weight on the Android security updates
           | than they perhaps should. Unless you're installing random
           | crap, there are very few OS vulnerabilities that you need to
           | be concerned about if you have an up-to-date browser. Things
           | like StageFright are very uncommon (and I can't find evidence
           | of that actually being exploited in the wild)
        
       | aborsy wrote:
       | Is Google Pixel (with default Android, not GrapheneOS) at least
       | as secure as iPhone?
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | That kind of question isn't really answerable. Patch rates and
         | known vulnerability rates are roughly comparable. Broad
         | hardware capability is similar. Zero days appear for both
         | platforms on the open market with some regularity. Neither is
         | perfect but both are quite good relative to the rest of the
         | market.
        
       | nepger21 wrote:
       | Google really needs to improve the core offering of what a phone
       | is supposed to provide instead of using half baked AI as a
       | selling point.
       | 
       | I have been using Pixel 7 for almost the past 2 years. But the
       | amount of basic core issues are crazy. Recently,since the July
       | update, every place where the phone cannot catch network signal,
       | it shutdowns. And with the update, somehow i feel it cannot catch
       | network signal as strongly. That is such a crazy thing. Last
       | year, my friend got locked out of all his valuable pictures with
       | Android 14 upgrade on Pixel 6.
       | 
       | My experience of Google is so bad with hardware that it has
       | finally pushed me towards buying an iPhone for the very first
       | time in my life after having been exclusive with Android OS for
       | over 10 years.
        
         | dana321 wrote:
         | no need to go too crazy, the samsung galaxy is stable
        
         | thebytefairy wrote:
         | Meanwhile, I'm getting pushed away from iOS when I can't
         | customise basic things and the Phone app (you know, the main
         | use of a phone) takes 30s to open, even after restores.
        
           | schappim wrote:
           | > the main use of a phone
           | 
           | While the phone app remains important for some, it's no
           | longer the primary means of communication for most folks,
           | especially with the rise of messaging apps and social media.
        
           | itake wrote:
           | that seems like a hardware failure or perhaps you have too
           | many contacts in your phone book? For 'fun' I created 50k
           | iCloud contacts and it broke my account / phone. I had to
           | call apple support to delete them.
        
         | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
         | I had the Pixel 6 Pro and everything was amazing... except for
         | signal and battery. Which are two of the most important things
         | in a phone.
         | 
         | The battery was quite bad from the very beginning, barely
         | lasting a day of normal usage, but I thought "well, at least
         | they seem to have taken lots of care to avoid battery aging -
         | slower charging than other phones, intelligent charging speed,
         | etc. - so it won't degrade much". Two years later it wasn't
         | even making it to 6 PM, or 3-4 PM on heavy use days (such as
         | trips). OTOH my previous phone (Huawei P30 Pro), with much
         | faster charge and no "intelligent" anything, still has amazing
         | battery after more than 5 years of use (now in my wife's
         | hands).
         | 
         | That was my first and last Pixel. A pity because the software
         | was amazing, but that's no use if you operate under constant
         | battery anxiety and can't even use Google Maps and camera on a
         | trip without spending hours charging at the hotel.
        
         | suddenexample wrote:
         | Research: consumers are turned off by AI in marketing because
         | it's a vague term that makes no promises about features or
         | usefulness
         | 
         | Google: _takes deep breath_ AI AI AI AI AI
        
       | JohnTHaller wrote:
       | Size Clarification: The Pixel 9 Pro is a new medium size. The
       | Pixel 9 is a direct successor to the Pixel 8 and the Pixel 9 Pro
       | XL is a direct successor to the Pixel 8 Pro.
        
       | dartharva wrote:
       | Oof, even phones have 16GB RAM nowadays
        
       | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
       | 80% of their "camera" features are just AI tricks.
       | 
       | For the size off the phone, that is sort of lame.
        
       | scottyah wrote:
       | I fell for the Google Home, and it has gotten significantly worse
       | over time. My only hypothesis is they found ways to reduce the
       | cost of running the server-side, and it does not benefit the
       | consumer.
       | 
       | My Consumer Report: Do not fall for hardware backed by software
       | that costs the seller money to keep running.
        
         | jascination wrote:
         | Same, I have nest cameras and nest wifi (now discontinued 2
         | years later, so can't buy compatible wifi points anymore).
         | Software + Google voice assistant is so goddamn buggy!
         | 
         | Wish I went with a TP-Link solution instead
        
           | ThunderSizzle wrote:
           | I have the Google Wifi pucks because it was only mesh system
           | at the time that offered both wireless and wired backhaul for
           | mesh networks, which was great because I could wire most of
           | it.
           | 
           | I used it as wired until I moved, and my current house I
           | started using it wireless. That's when I discovered a bug in
           | the wireless mesh that requires me to basically restart the
           | network every couple days.
           | 
           | I also wish I didn't need to app to connect to it. I really
           | don't understand why I can't manage it directly from my PC or
           | phone via IP Address like every other system I've used. I
           | regret it, but it is better than having an upstairs and
           | downstairs network I needed to keep switching between with my
           | netgear routers I had before.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | I switched from Google Wi-Fi to Eero a few years ago and
             | discovered that almost everything I'd thought were network
             | limitations was some kind of non-obvious problem with the
             | Google Wi-Fi system. Random daily 20 second hangs for iOS
             | devices disappeared, the DNS proxy is now reliable, etc.
        
           | cameronh90 wrote:
           | The Nest cameras are infuriating. I'll get an alert, only to
           | tap it and get "This video isn't available yet. Check back
           | later."
           | 
           | After all these years, my devices still are split across the
           | Nest and Home apps, and the Home app is still missing
           | features Nest had from day one. Oh yeah and presence sensing
           | doesn't work since switching to the Google app [0].
           | 
           | I bought an iPhone last year and have been de-Googling since.
           | 
           | [0] https://youtu.be/upLSYyprib8?si=ykEmaxmdTDAt3ghz
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | Highly recommend UniFi. Storage is in your home, everything
           | is well integrated with router, loads up video very quickly,
           | scrubbing is fast... its great.
        
         | Fuzzwah wrote:
         | I've got a nest hub max that I use daily, for the most parts my
         | family has learned the key phrases that result in the action we
         | want. But randomly it'll play music from youtube when we only
         | ever want spotify. Randomly it won't display google search
         | results in a usable format.
         | 
         | So even the very simple use cases that we know work, aren't
         | solid.
         | 
         | Then there's the massive disappointment when you just have a
         | quick think about the types of interactions that it could do
         | very well if google cared at all. Honestly, the failure to
         | follow through on what could have been a house hold changing
         | device is just sad to ponder.
         | 
         | Why they haven't rigged it up to gemini yet baffles me.
        
       | twp wrote:
       | Is it possible to buy the phone without the Gemini/AI crapware
       | for $239 less?
        
       | petabyt wrote:
       | Interesting that holding down the power button will now launch
       | AI... On my pixel 6 that currently opens up the emergency/power
       | menu.
        
       | apatheticonion wrote:
       | I'd buy this if it had USB4 that - when plugged into a dock with
       | a monitor, keyboard and mouse - put up a complete desktop OS
       | (preferably full fat Linux).
       | 
       | I could then use my phone as a thin-client for work or gaming,
       | perhaps even experimenting with proton locally.
       | 
       | Apple already demonstrated that mobile hardware is capable of
       | workstation workloads so I'd see this as a natural step forward.
       | 
       | Beyond that, there isn't any compelling reason to upgrade my
       | Pixel 6a.
       | 
       | If I broke my 6a, I'd probably upgrade to the 7a for the better
       | screen.
        
       | blehn wrote:
       | Why make two sizes and STILL make the smaller phone enormous?
       | Apple is reportedly making the regular iPhone Pro larger as well.
       | Baffling.
        
       | matrix87 wrote:
       | why the price increase? is it really $100 (edit, actually 200)
       | better than the 8 (which already has 7 years of updates)?
       | 
       | even then the 8 went on sale the same year it came out for like
       | 150 less
        
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