[HN Gopher] Serena: An experimental operating system for 32bit A...
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Serena: An experimental operating system for 32bit Amiga computers
Author : doener
Score : 137 points
Date : 2024-08-13 09:33 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| makach wrote:
| A video or a screenshot would have been nice
| Aldipower wrote:
| YouTube has a lot of videos and screenshots.
| shyrka wrote:
| Any links? I can't seem to find it on YouTube
| actionfromafar wrote:
| I think it was a jab. Youtube indeed _has_ a lot of videos.
| Maybe not of this OS, though.
|
| Anyway here is a screenshot: http://www.amiga-
| news.de/de/news/AN-2024-08-00046-DE.html
| ape4 wrote:
| I tried unsuccessfully too. It doesn't help that Serena
| Williams is a famous tennis player and "amiga" is "friend"
| (female) in Spanish.
| sbarre wrote:
| This is fascinating. I love the virtual processors dispatch queue
| concept (new to me) and I think I found my lunch reading for
| today.
|
| I also immediately went to eBay to see how much old Amiga
| computers cost, and....
|
| Wow, they are pretty much not available? All I could find was
| parts listings, and the odd "mainboard as-is" for like $1,000 or
| more...
|
| I had no idea Amiga computers from the 90s were so rare now.
| _joel wrote:
| That ship sailed quite some time ago, it seems. At least for
| OG, unless you want to spend large amounts. I wish I'd kept my
| 500+ now too.
| icedchai wrote:
| Tell me about it! I had both an A500 and A3000 in the 90's. I
| sold both for a pittance...
| InsideOutSanta wrote:
| My mom gave my Amiga 500 away when I was on holidays.
| sbarre wrote:
| Oof.. I feel that pain, we had an Apple IIe that I taught
| myself to program on in the 80s, it was basically the
| genesis of my life and career, and oddly enough kind of a
| family heirloom for me..
|
| When I left for university in the early 90s, my dad
| donated it to a local library without even asking me
| first. To be fair I had never expressed my desired to
| keep it, it was just in the basement in a box. So it
| wasn't that big of a deal but I know he feels guilt for
| that one to this day, once I explained how I felt.
| morning-coffee wrote:
| Ouch. I feel for you both. I count myself lucky... I
| still have my IBM PC XT in the basement (runs and my son
| plays Zork II on it) thanks to my Dad not only shelling
| out for it in 1983 but hanging on to it over the years.
|
| But I empathize for other reasons... my Mom gave away my
| huge bag of Legos, including all the cool Space stuff,
| that I wish I still had. ;)
| sgt wrote:
| I also have regrets. You know, one time I had a 1084S
| Commodore monitor - pristine condition. One day it didn't
| want to turn on, and after a few weeks I just threw it in
| the trash. So ... incredibly stupid! People like me should
| get the death penalty.
| icedchai wrote:
| I left my 1084S in my parents' basement, and they
| eventually threw it out. It had a fiddly power button but
| was working otherwise.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| They are more common in Europe, since they sold better there.
| (Except the Amiga 1000.)
|
| There are also _several_ reimplementations, either with FPGA or
| "real" 680x0 CPUs.
|
| This Serena operating system fascinates me in several ways. I
| have said it before, but I think one _very_ cool thing about
| the Amigas is how they are the missing link between "too
| simple" 8-bit and 16-bit DOS computers and our modern
| computers.
|
| They are advanced enough to run modern(-ish) software and
| simple enough to be reimplemented faithfully several times over
| by various projects.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I have the a1000 I learned on as a kid. And the c64 from
| before that, but I keep saying here that the 32bit
| microcontrollers are fairly close approximations that use
| less power and have more processing. You can't get bloat
| though because they still have ram constraints tied to the
| mmu that can only do page protection, just like the amiga...
| Could even use the DACs to spit out s-video maybe?
| icedchai wrote:
| The Amiga was my first exposure to a computer with a "real"
| OS: tasks/processes, memory management, IPC, shared
| libraries, etc. I first learned C on an Amiga. It also taught
| me to be careful: a bug in your program with no memory
| protection would often mean a crash/reboot ("Guru Meditation"
| error.)
| blueflow wrote:
| Where does that come from that a fraction of computing
| history is dismissed as "not a real OS" ? Did "real" OS's
| exist for the IBM PC?
| icedchai wrote:
| I put real in quotes. I probably should've said "OS of
| sufficient level of complexity."
| blueflow wrote:
| Or name the features directly: "my first OS with
| multitasking and memory management"
| icedchai wrote:
| I did name the features directly.
| exe34 wrote:
| have you considered getting tested for autism?
| blueflow wrote:
| Yes. Negative.
|
| Being an expert in a field and thus being sensitive to
| semantics and autism are orthogonal.
| exe34 wrote:
| some level of socialising often blunts the petulant need
| for the security of exact nomenclature outside of a
| technical publication, hence the question. it's
| interesting that you did get tested though. it suggests
| this isn't the first time.
| hub_ wrote:
| OS/2 comes to mind. Version 1.x was already much more
| sophisticated than MS-DOS.
| pjmlp wrote:
| And Xenix.
| blueflow wrote:
| For you two: The IBM PC was the first PC and had a 8088
| CPU. OS/2 and Xenix were for the 286 and up.
|
| If you make virtual memory a necessary attribute to
| qualify as OS, there were no OS for the original IBM PC
| as the 8088 had no support for virtual memory. That's why
| my (tricky) question.
| icedchai wrote:
| Amiga OS didn't have virtual memory either.
| pjmlp wrote:
| My first computer was a Timex 2068, while at the school
| lab we had Amstrad PC1512 with 5" floppies and no HD...
|
| Naturally when we speak about PC, we don't mean the
| original IBM PC and nothing else.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| If we are being pedantic then what you're describing are
| called IBM-compatible PCs. Ie they weren't made by IBM
| but were designed to support most other of the same
| software.
| blueflow wrote:
| Yes and i said "IBM PC"...
| deaddodo wrote:
| The "IBM PC" was a _category_ of machines, not a model.
| Many of which had advanced processors with MMUs and
| 16-bit support:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IBM_Personal_Comp
| ute...
|
| If what you're referring to as the "IBM PC" is the
| classic model 5150 _and_ we follow your arbitrary
| designation of a "real OS", than no. But, by that same
| logic, I can say ducks aren't birds "if we consider birds
| only those with non-webbed feet".
| kjs3 wrote:
| No. Xenix through at least version 2.1 ran on the
| original IBM PC (and early Xenix was ported to the 68000
| (e.g. Tandy model 16), which also lacked hardware VM
| support).[1] You could also run IBM PC Unix in the form
| of Venix from Venturecom (Version 7 with some BSD things)
| and PC/IX from ISC (System III). Both were 'official'
| licensed Unix ports. In the Unix-ish camp, there was
| Coherent and Minix, as well as various MMU-less Linux
| projects (e.g. ELKS). And there are many interesting
| oddballs like iRMX.
|
| Yes, OS/2 did require a 286 until it required a 386.
|
| _If you make virtual memory a necessary attribute to
| qualify as OS_
|
| That would be pedantic and historically inaccurate and we
| shouldn't engage in that.
|
| [1] https://gunkies.org/wiki/XENIX
| bpoyner wrote:
| Xenix .. that brings back memories of green screens and
| digicards (digiboards).
| gxd wrote:
| There is no reason to get the original unless you're a
| committed retrocomputing enthusiast or collector (I am a retro
| games collector and decided against getting an original
| anyway). You can get an exceptional emulation experience using
| WinUAE or https://www.amigaforever.com/ (which is also WinUAE
| based).
| teo_zero wrote:
| > I also immediately went to eBay to see how much old Amiga
| computers cost
|
| Please note that Serena targets a Motorola 68030, so anything
| below an Amiga 3000 won't qualify.
| ekianjo wrote:
| would that work with a A1200 equipped with an acceleration
| board?
| sgt wrote:
| Yes it will, I have an Amiga 1200 with a Blizzard 1230IV
| accelerator board. They were super common back in the day.
| Its 68030 runs at a whopping 50MHz, so you pretty much have
| to wear a seatbelt.
| teo_zero wrote:
| I had a Blizzard myself, and I kind of remember it was
| equipped with a 68EC030, that is a 68030 without MMU. And
| I suspect the reason Serena requires a 68030 is in fact
| its MMU.
| jdboyd wrote:
| They specifically mention A2000 as supported. I assume that
| requires an '030 accelerator card then, but an A2000 with
| '030 card is probably much cheaper than an A3000 or A4000.
| pjmlp wrote:
| We loved them, a great gaming computer, multitasking, already
| had sound and graphics chips we could program for, multitasking
| (although Guru Meditation could happen quite frequently), an
| extensible OS with plugins, dynamic libraries, scriptable
| applications.
|
| Meanwhile on PC land, Windows 3.x had just come up into the
| scene.
|
| As the only PC guy on our group, I really enjoyed the demoscene
| meetings where I could improve my Amiga skills.
| guestbest wrote:
| Shipping is prohibitively expensive including UPS and just like
| 15 year old flat screen televisions, sellers will rip out
| components to cut down on costs. I once saw a horse saddle get
| shipped to Argentina from Texas for 36 dollars through UPS in
| 2004 in a flimsy cardboard box. I can't imagine the cost these
| days
| christkv wrote:
| I've been eyeing the vampire v4 standalone. FPGA reimagining of
| the amiga with backwards compatibility
| galangalalgol wrote:
| It doesn't seem like it tries to emulate any of the
| constraints the original Amiga had. Is it essentially just a
| way to run newer versions of amigaos on modern hardware?
| cturner wrote:
| Stefany is not advertising them for sale at the moment, but is
| still working on a 68040/48060 platform in the background.
| https://c256foenix.com/a2560x/?v=6cc98ba2045f
|
| If you are looking for an audience for your platform, you may
| want to connect to that community via their Discord. They have
| some experienced network stack developers.
| rangerelf wrote:
| Heh, that made my morning. I was reading the specs on the cube
| and grinning like a fool.
|
| Thanks for sharing this.
| doener wrote:
| Via http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2024-08-00046-DE.html (in
| German)
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| The Windows-based build instructions are...interesting.
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(page generated 2024-08-13 23:01 UTC)