[HN Gopher] Takeaways from the Vision Pro after 6 months
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Takeaways from the Vision Pro after 6 months
Author : retskrad
Score : 47 points
Date : 2024-08-12 17:20 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.matthewball.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.matthewball.co)
| doctorpangloss wrote:
| A device with 2-3 hours of battery life cannot provide the 4-8
| hours of unsupervised entertainment that parents are most willing
| to pay dearly for.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| What a bizarre take. The Vision Pro is not designed for, or
| marketed to, children.
| doctorpangloss wrote:
| Is the iPad?
| crooked-v wrote:
| 4-8 hours is a pretty excessive goal for battery life. A Switch
| Lite will only do just under 4 hours in the best case with a
| newish game (e.g. playing Smash and not just NES emulators),
| and plenty of parents are happy with that.
|
| Of course, that's leaving aside that the AVP is (for good or
| ill) obviously targeted at working adults and not kids or even
| college students.
| leptons wrote:
| I don't think giving a child an even more isolating way to
| escape reality is going to end up well for the child.
| holoduke wrote:
| I think the moment when vr/ar becomes really popular amongst
| regular people is when the size of the device is the same as a
| pair of sunglasses. Maybe just slightly more bulky. But till that
| time its not becoming a successful story. People feel akward
| wearing the thing. Its uncomfortable and a bit of a gimmick
| without a real purpose. When the thing could replace my raybands.
| It looks awesome and contains software that enhances the real
| world I see with information, it might become something.
| 0max wrote:
| There's an anime from 2007 called "Denno Coil" that focuses on
| AR compute with devices that look like normal glasses and
| integrated with everyday life. This is the piece of culture I'd
| compare against, and use as a barometer to compare where this
| type of interface can reach a critical mass.
| duggan wrote:
| That's interesting, Dennou Coil is actually the first thing I
| thought of (and rewatched) when the Apple Vision Pro was
| announced. I thought that if it lived up to the hype and I
| wanted to build something for it, then it would be good to
| have some sci-fi use cases fresh in my mind.
|
| It seems like there are several high technological barriers
| to surmount though. I don't expect to see that kind of AR for
| decades.
| spogbiper wrote:
| https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/ray-ban-meta-smart-glasses
|
| These are a start.. taking the opposite approach of the Apple
| device and limiting functionality to what will actually fit in
| a reasonable form factor right now.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Though to avoid any confusion for other readers, these aren't
| "AR" at all. They're a voice assistant and camera that
| happens to be attached to the same body part that AR goggles
| would be.
|
| No visual display included, because that would require a
| clunkier form factor still.
| leptons wrote:
| I know a Google exec that was put on the Google Glass project
| early on, when the scope was for it to be a full AR/VR device
| (not like the very scaled-back thing Google Glass rolled-out
| as). Even he knew many years ago that it would be impossible
| within the foreseeable future with the state of available tech
| or even near future available tech to fit that experience into
| the size of a pair of sunglasses. That person is now involved
| with Google's quantum computing efforts which seems like a more
| solvable problem than fitting a full AR/VR experience into a
| something close to a standard size pair of sunglasses.
|
| I've got a Quest headset and the thing causes a lot of pressure
| on my sinuses, making it unwearable for more than about 15
| minutes at a time. There are no AR/VR headsets that I'd be
| willing to strap on to my face for more than about 10 or 15
| minutes.
| crooked-v wrote:
| For the Quest, take a look at BOBOVR headstraps
| (https://www.bobovr.com). They replace the "clamp to your
| face" style that companies keep idiotically insisting on with
| a much more comfortable welding mask/hard hat style
| arrangement where the weight sits around the crown of your
| head.
| jordanpg wrote:
| This is the bottom line and it has been obvious since the first
| time I ever put a VR headset on my head 10 years ago.
|
| Today's products, even AVP, are way, WAY too big and
| inconvenient in 50 different little ways to be seriously used
| for anything.
| snapcaster wrote:
| My take has been that there is literally no good software for it,
| and it's a real shame because the hardware (and low level
| eye/AR/etc.) fucking rules. Just do whatever you have to to let
| me run mac os x apps on this thing and I'll use it everyday
|
| edit: also, i'm an apple fanboy and still very disappointed in
| how poorly apple handled the launch. They spend billions on R&D
| and wont even throw a few million at some game developers to port
| to the platform? what the fuck?
| guitarlimeo wrote:
| > They spend billions on R&D and wont even throw a few million
| at some game developers to port to the platform? what the fuck?
|
| Porting good games might cost more than a few millions,
| considering that Metal is a proprietary graphics stack that
| doesn't have good support (or at all) in AAA engines.
| snapcaster wrote:
| sure, but this was a problem they really needed to solve and
| as far as I can tell they didn't even attempt it
| wvenable wrote:
| The lack of controllers make the Vision Pro poor for games; it
| can't handle even bog standard VR games like Beat Saber.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _The lack of controllers make the Vision Pro poor for games;
| it can 't handle even bog standard VR games like Beat Saber._
|
| I'm pretty sure I remember Apple demonstrating hooking it up
| to an Xbox controller. I think the only thing more bog
| standard than that is an Atari 2600 joystick.
| wvenable wrote:
| That won't help you with Beat Saber!
| axoltl wrote:
| I'm with you. I use my Vision Pro several hours every single
| day but 95% of the time I have my macbook mirrored into it. At
| the very least I was hopeful VisionOS 2 would let me pull apps
| into my space without the desktop, but that was not to be.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| It's the story of VR all over again:
|
| - Awesome technology.
|
| - Strong "wow" moment.
|
| - Doesn't do anything particularly better than the devices you
| already have.
|
| It's technology in search of a problem. There are legitimate
| problems it solves, but they are always elusively niche.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| AR isn't a technology in search of a problem. It's solving a
| problem, one of them is allowing you to bring 5 screens without
| hauling 5 screens.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Not really. Even on Apple Vision Pro, the text quality is
| lower than native pixels and less comfortable to read.
|
| In addition, it turns out that five screens isn't as useful
| when there's only one you, who can do only one thing at a
| time. It saves a few clicks for most, not much more; and
| certainly not enough convenience to wear a brick on your
| head.
|
| If people found multiple screens so useful that it's worth
| lugging an extra bag around, external 13" monitors should be
| bestsellers.
| user_7832 wrote:
| > If people found multiple screens so useful that it's
| worth lugging an extra bag around, external 13" monitors
| should be bestsellers.
|
| While I mostly agree... I partially disagree.
|
| IMO, the problem isn't so much about screens not proving to
| be helpful - but about _good_ screens. Here in The
| Netherlands it 's very common to find
| assistants/secretaries having multiple monitors. Heck,
| (some of?) the staff at the court in The Hague have
| _curved_ ultrawide monitors. Evidently people recognize the
| benefits of screen real estate.
|
| The big problem, IMO, is that "standard" portable screens -
| 99% of which are 16:9 - are simply not tall enough. My
| 13.5" FW13 screen (3:2 ratio) is about as tall as a 15"
| 16:9 screen, but is much smaller than a 15" laptop. Windows
| particularly is excellent/terrible at having a ton of
| horizontal bars, making usable vertical height terribly
| little. Why would someone bring another monitor to see more
| bars?
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| I don't know what to tell you, but an Apple Vision Pro
| isn't going to help you.
|
| Right now, the individual pixels are about the size of a
| human blood cell(!), and yet, the panels for each eye are
| not quite 4K.
|
| Not quite 4K, for your entire FOV. As iFixit notes, for a
| virtual desktop inside that FOV, forget about it looking
| anything like a good 4K monitor. The Vision Pro can have
| 3,386 PPI and it's still no monitor substitute.
|
| https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-
| part-2...
| user_7832 wrote:
| Just to clarify, I wasn't commenting so much on the AVP
| than on small monitors often being shitty in general.
| It's probably also a mini rant- my ideal monitor would
| probably be 1:1 lol.
| crooked-v wrote:
| > curved ultrawide monitors
|
| I have a 32:9 curved ultrawide monitor that I bought for
| games but has ended up invaluable for work (software
| dev). It's nigh perfect to divide into 3-4 full-size
| panes and gives enough space to have 6+ documents open
| and easily readable simultaneously, in a way I think
| would take three separate monitors to awkwardly emulate
| otherwise (and even then you'd lose the benefit of being
| able to go from 3 to 4 main groupings and back as
| needed).
|
| The downside is, of course, the thing weighs over 30
| pounds and is completely ungainly. Good luck setting it
| up or moving it without two people.
| leptons wrote:
| >In addition, it turns out that five screens isn't as
| useful when there's only one you,
|
| This is nonsense. I have essentially 6 screens on my desk,
| it it absolutely is very useful. Just because you can't
| imagine it being useful doesn't mean other people can't or
| don't take advantage of the extra screen real estate.
|
| That said, I'd never use a VR/AR headset strapped to my
| face 8 hours a day to replace my 6 high-resolution screens.
| And I don't need to move my screens from place to place. If
| I'm not at home, that mean's I'm doing something else that
| isn't working, _and that 's a good thing_.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| I'm not saying it isn't useful, but refer to my original
| post:
|
| > It's technology in search of a problem. There are
| legitimate problems it solves, but they are always
| elusively niche.
|
| 6 screens is "elusively niche." It will never be a mass-
| market attraction that convinces people to strap on a
| headset.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Is it really bringing 5 screens? Most of the apps I've seen
| tend to be gimicky apps that I wouldn't commit to a single
| screen. Some of which I wouldn't even have maximized to
| access via Cmd+Tab. Even if they're all useful, most users
| typically never use beyond 2-3 screens, and you typically
| don't look at more than 2 via AR anyways. Instead of virtual
| desktops, you put apps in spaces where you have to redirect
| your attention.
| crooked-v wrote:
| I would say that mine is just plain better for solo movie
| watching than any display I've ever had. If the hardware was
| less cumbersome, I'd give serious thought to never buying a
| bigger TV again and maybe actively downsizing the one I have.
|
| On a similar note, it's almost but not quite good enough to
| replace the displays of my working/gaming desk setup, and a
| version 2 or 3 with a slightly denser display - if it was
| actually comfortable enough to wear sitting up for more than an
| hour or two - would be a serious contender to replace several
| high-end monitors plus my audio setup.
|
| To sum it all up, I think the 'killer app' here is the one
| that's so simple it seems kind of self-referential - having a
| display on your face instead of in the world. The UX and the
| display quality are already 75-100% of the way to filling that
| role. The basic problem is that the hardware is just too heavy
| and uncomfortable, so the value prop vanishes because you can't
| actually use it comfortably for 8-16 hours a day.
| gumby wrote:
| > To sum it all up, I think the 'killer app' here is the one
| that's so simple it seems kind of self-referential - having a
| display on your face instead of in the world.
|
| The problem is that, at the end of the day, that's just a
| feature, not a benefit.
|
| It reminds my of the ongoing push for speech interfaces.
| Supposedly they are "more natural" but in reality, even when
| you have a screen, the keyboard is still significantly better
| (even if it's virtual like on a phone)
| reidjs wrote:
| speech interfaces have gotten amazing in certain contexts,
| especially now that speech to text is decent. Think times
| when you can't call the person but need to send them a
| quick message, eg noisy festival or loud bar while you are
| moving and aren't able to stop to type.
|
| I know that some people even use voice assistants to do
| things like set timers, reminders, or initiate calls
| gumby wrote:
| Yeah, "some people" -- my partner for one. But efficacy
| is low, even with all her practice. And there aren't many
| such people -- look at what's happening to Amazon's alexa
| unit.
|
| I do mainly use voice to control my watch, which means in
| practice it's pretty much a read-only device (which is
| just fine for me).
|
| > Think times when you can't call the person but need to
| send them a quick message, eg noisy festival or loud bar.
|
| Aren't these precisely cases where speech _doesn 't_
| work? Too noisy to hear you; too noisy for you to hear
| the message.
| thefz wrote:
| With how much that headset costs I will be buying a home
| theater that will rip the paint off the walls every time a
| bass hits, to make my solo movie experience "plain better".
| thoughtpalette wrote:
| Not entirely feasible in dense housing/cities, unless you
| want to be _that_ neighbor.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| My #1 use for my Quest 3 is fitness. It provides me a
| legitimately new and engaging experience.
| solardev wrote:
| Can you explain? (I'm curious, as someone who's trying to
| lose weight.)
|
| Is it the same rhythm & movement games like first-gen VR
| (slicing fruits, hitting beats, etc.) or is there something
| new and better these days?
| nickthegreek wrote:
| I prefer shadow boxing experiences. The pacing on this
| fitness first apps is way better than a generic rhythm
| game. One big player is Les Mills BodyCombat. This is a 1
| time fee, generic music experience. It checks all the boxes
| and will work fine.
|
| The other big player is Supernatural. This is a monthly sub
| but has an extensive and growing catalog of boxing workouts
| with top notch music and impressive environments. If you
| are going to be serious and put in the time in a vr workout
| app, the sub price is a good deal.
| evanjrowley wrote:
| +1 for Supernatural. It's a valuable exercise app for VR.
| solardev wrote:
| Awesome, thank you for the suggestions! I train
| kickboxing IRL, so this might be a good way to supplement
| that at home. Appreciate it :)
| bitpush wrote:
| Disappointed with the article. I was expecting a bit more depth
| since the title claimed "after 6 months". Especially because the
| article claims -
|
| The Apple Vision Pro debuted six months ago. I was hesitant to
| provide any detailed thoughts on the device and its implications
| until I (and others) had a few months to use it. Here are my
| eight takeaways on the Apple Vision Pro after six months.
|
| Takeaway #1: Apple Did Not (and Does Not) Want to Manage
| Expectations for the Vision Pro
|
| -- Talks about keynote and marketing quotes from the day of the
| launch
|
| -- Revolutionary company believes their product is revolutionary.
|
| Takeaway #2: The Vision Pro Probably Cost Tens of Billions to
| Develop
|
| -- Company spent truckload of money making a new product
|
| Takeaway #3: The Vision Pro Is Not Really From The Future
|
| -- Talks about what Zuckerberg thinks. This isnt really a
| "takeaway", nor a "personal experience"
|
| Takeaway #4: EyeSight is An Expensive Feature --and Not Worth It
|
| -- First true experience, and interesting to read
|
| Takeaway #5: The Vision Pro is, Today, Mostly a VR device (Even
| Though Apple Claims Otherwise)
|
| -- Good. VR headset is being used as a VR headset.
|
| Takeaway #6: The Benefits of Using a Vision Pro Fall
| Significantly Short of its Drawbacks
|
| -- The product isnt as revolutionary as we thought folks.
|
| Takeaway #7: Developer Adoption Remains a Problem
|
| -- Not really a personal experience, but an observation.
|
| Takeaway #8: Apple has Promptly Reshaped Terminology, Customer
| Perceptions, and Competitor Plans
|
| -- Has it though?
|
| So many words to say Vision Pro is a disappointing mess. Of the 8
| takeaways, only 2 takeaways were made based on experience. Others
| were either fluff, or repeating news articles or mere
| observations.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Just by envisioning what AR can do, you can tell that AR is the
| future. It just needs miniaturizations and cost reductions
| TylerE wrote:
| Anything will seem like the future if you ignore all the
| obvious insurmountable downsides.
| jasonsb wrote:
| Yeah, but I would like Crypto and Vision Pro to be the future
| because I'm heavily invested in these two. (says every
| HN/Reddit/Twitter user)
| jasonlhy wrote:
| I have a apple Visio pro, I personally think it is a very good
| device, control by finger is impressive, except it is way too
| expensive
| monkeydust wrote:
| Not it's biggest problem and before you think it's lack of
| killer app I would say it's form factor. Get that right and
| people wearing it more often and naturally the applications
| will come. Yea Meta onto this now with Rayban tie-up
| axoltl wrote:
| Curious what the problem what the form factor is? I wear it
| several hours a day every day and have had no complaints.
|
| (I will say I use the double-loop strap instead of the
| adjustable head-band you see in the ads all the time. The top
| loop seems to take enough weight off of your cheeks where
| it's comfortable enough for all-day wear)
| twiceaday wrote:
| The difference between a million dollars and a billion
| dollars is about a billion dollars. The difference between
| Meta 'smart' sunglasses and an AR headset is an AR headset.
| How are they 'onto' anything by selling sunglasses with a
| sneaky phone camera strapped to them? People wear them like
| sunglasses, because they are?
| honkycat wrote:
| Consumers are way more wary of shovelware and getting stuck on
| the hook with an abandoned product these days.
|
| It's a cool device, but does Apple have the balls to stick with
| it, and built it into the platform they believe it can be?
|
| My magic 8-ball says: Doubtful
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| Apple is making a 3D movie for the device and coming out with
| more immersive experiences . Also, they are upgrading the OS
| with more features .
|
| Which Apple device has Apple abandoned recently?
| reaperducer wrote:
| _My magic 8-ball says: Doubtful_
|
| Considering how long Apple supports its other products, I'd
| take a chance on Vision Pro before a Google product. My nine-
| year-old iPhone 6S got a software update a couple of weeks ago.
|
| Still, before I'd drop that kind of money on a device, I'd like
| to see an Apple Graveyard website, like the Google Graveyard
| site, to reassure myself.
| knodi123 wrote:
| I'm less worried about them supporting it with
| drivers/security, and more with them supporting it with new
| software. It will take compelling experiences for adoption to
| take off, and if they don't keep adding experiences....
| theogravity wrote:
| I'd like to try one, but I require prism in my lenses (my eyes
| have a slight cross to them when viewing anything perceived as
| distant) which is something they currently do not support when
| ordering lenses.
|
| I'm able to get them for my Quest 2, however.
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| I got a Quest Pro for free from Meta, and only realized that it
| was great for watching TV after Vision Pro came out, lol
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