[HN Gopher] The most cited authors in the Stanford Encyclopedia ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The most cited authors in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
        
       Author : bbor
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2024-08-11 04:03 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com)
        
       | bbor wrote:
       | Fascinating list that I thought yall would enjoy! If you're not
       | yet aware, https://plato.stanford.edu is as close to
       | "philosophical canon" as it gets in modern American academia.
       | 
       | Shoutout to Godel and Neumann taking top spots despite not really
       | being philosophers, at least in how they're remembered.
       | Comparatively, I'm honestly shocked that neither Bohr nor
       | Heisenberg made the cut, even though there's multiple articles on
       | quantum physics... Turing also managed to sneak in under the
       | wire, with 33 citations.
       | 
       | The bias inherent in the source is discussed in detail, and I
       | would also love to hear HN ideas on how to improve this project,
       | and how to visualize the results! I'm not the author, but this is
       | right up my alley to say the least, and I'd love to take a crack
       | at it.
        
         | defrost wrote:
         | > and how to visualize the results!
         | 
         | There's bound to be something to be teased out from who
         | referenced whom and when.
         | 
         | Eg: (random example)
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Priest had a great many
         | students from the 1980s onwards, coinciding with the rise of
         | plato.stanford.edu personal computers and the internet.
         | 
         | He's come in at #51 or so likely on the back of a generation of
         | philosophy students with technology crossover writing up early
         | articles on plato and throwing in a citation to Priest.
         | 
         | I'm in no way implying this is undeserved, just as an example
         | of some of the weighting bias coming from the era when many
         | plato stub articles originated.
        
         | westurner wrote:
         | From "Show HN: WhatTheDuck - open-source, in-browser SQL on CSV
         | files" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39836220 :
         | 
         | > _datasette-lite can load [remote] sqlite and Parquet but not
         | yet DuckDB (?) with Pyodide in WASM, and there 's also
         | JupyterLite as a datasette plug-in:
         | https://github.com/simonw/datasette-lite _
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=simonw
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=simonwillison.net
         | 
         | JSON-LD with https://schema.org/Person records with
         | wikipedia/dbpedia RDF URIs would make it easy to query on
         | whichever datasets can be joined on common RDFS properties like
         | schema: :identifier and rdfs:subPropertyOf sub-properties,
         | https://schema.org/url, :sameAs,
         | 
         | Plato in RDF from dbpedia: https://dbpedia.org/page/Plato
         | 
         | Today there are wikipedia URLs, DOI URN URIs, shorturls in QR
         | codes, ORCID specifically to search published :ScholarlyArticle
         | by optional :author, and now there are W3C DIDs Decentralized
         | Identifiers for signing, identifying, and searching of unique
         | :Thing and skos:Concept that can be generated offline and
         | optionally registered centrally, or centrally generated and
         | assigned like DOIs but they're signing keys.
         | 
         | Given uncertainty about time intervals, plot concepts over time
         | with charts for showing graph growth over time. Maybe
         | philosophy skos:Concept intervals (and relations, links) from
         | human annotations thereof and/or from LLM parsing and search
         | snippets of Wikipedia, dbpedia RDF, wikidata RDF, and ranked
         | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy terminological occurrence
         | frequency.
        
           | westurner wrote:
           | - "Datasette Enrichments: a new plugin framework for
           | augmenting your data" (2023) by row with asyncio and
           | optionally httpx:
           | https://simonwillison.net/2023/Dec/1/datasette-enrichments/
        
       | halfcat wrote:
       | > _"Only authors born 1900 or later are included."_
       | 
       | Ah, that's why Plato isn't #1
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | Plato cited Socrates a lot
        
         | gizajob wrote:
         | A series of footnotes to David Lewis doesn't have quite the
         | same ring to it.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | For the uninformed:
         | 
         | "The safest general characterization of the European
         | philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of
         | footnotes to Plato." Alfred North Whitehead, Process and
         | Reality, p. 39 [Free Press, 1979];
         | 
         | <https://www.age-of-the-
         | sage.org/philosophy/footnotes_plato.h...>
         | 
         | (There's a fair bit of truth to this.)
        
       | alephnerd wrote:
       | > 2. Quine, Willard van Orman (213)
       | 
       | It's easy to become number 2 when you reference yourself /s
       | 
       | (For reference, a Quine is a type of computer program that takes
       | no input and only reproduces it's source code, so basically self
       | replicating. This is based on Quine's research into the logic of
       | recursion and replication [0])
       | 
       | [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_(computing)
        
       | kome wrote:
       | very out of touch with European philosophy, and therefore global
       | philosophy. Strange anglo-centric project.
       | 
       | edit: that's literally the point of the post, my bad.
        
         | Gimpei wrote:
         | I don't see why "European" philosophy (I assume you mean
         | continental) is any more global than analytic philosophy. Both
         | originate from what is only a small sliver of humanity. In fact
         | continental philosophy with its heavy French and German focus,
         | comes from an even smaller demographic base than Anglo world,
         | which at the very least includes the US, Canada, the UK,
         | Australia, and New Zealand.
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Young Hegelian Karl Marx seems to have found a few fans
           | worldwide.
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | Continental Philosophy is basically useless. Critical Theory is
         | usually fashionable nonsense, and the best continentals are the
         | most fashionable and the most nonsensical.
         | 
         | You know it's bad when one of the champions of the
         | Continentals, Zizek, is at his most coherent in a decade when
         | he's talking about how he received the "N word pass" -
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkvw6BUgU0I
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Calling critical theory fashionable nonsense is itself
           | fashionable nonsense.
        
           | Yodel0914 wrote:
           | Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Camus, Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir,
           | Freud, Hegel and Marx all, I believe, fall under the
           | 'continental philosophy' banner.
           | 
           | It seems rather, um, ambitious to call them all useless.
        
             | Vecr wrote:
             | I don't think Nietzche is useless, but I'd trade a #251 on
             | the list, Judea Pearl for him every time. And he's probably
             | the most useful in your "continental" list, thinking a bit
             | about replaceability.
        
           | Vecr wrote:
           | I think of Slavoj Zizek similarly to a comedian. If you judge
           | him on those terms someone like Norm McDonald had better and
           | more influential lines, but he's okay.
        
         | ants_everywhere wrote:
         | Philosophy basically forked after Kant pointed out that the
         | human brain does a sort of computation on sensory data.
         | 
         | Kant basically handed it off to the scientists, mathematicians
         | and computer scientists except for a lot of fiddly bits around
         | justifications and foundations. This is essentially the
         | analytic school.
         | 
         | The other school jumped the shark and aligned with the
         | Romantics and produced Hegel and Fichte and their descendants.
         | This group tends to be opposed to the idea that truth exits and
         | politically has a reactionary longing toward an imagined
         | primitive past. And that longing combined with the belief in
         | the inevitability of history and the valuelessness of human
         | life has led to immense amounts of destruction. For the most
         | part there just isn't anything to cite there that counts as
         | philosophy in the sense it was understood since ancient times.
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | Contemporary philosophy is Anglo-centric. Why is it strange?
        
       | djha-skin wrote:
       | John Von Neumann is #145, pretty cool. Anyone else spot any other
       | programming greats in the list?
        
         | Vecr wrote:
         | There's a few others, but people here already spotted them.
         | Alfred Tarski on there but he was a mathematician.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | Tarski was a mathematician if and only if Tarski was a
           | mathematician
        
             | ckcheng wrote:
             | Surely you mean:
             | 
             | "Tarski was a mathematician" is true if and only if Tarski
             | was a mathematician. [1]
             | 
             | [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-schema
        
       | citizen_friend wrote:
       | Remember that like wikipedia, citing yourself, or people related
       | to your work is a form of marketing, and important for careers.
        
       | gizajob wrote:
       | Not sure the point of having a filter to select only authors born
       | after 1900.
       | 
       | Does show the bias towards the American end of Anglo-American
       | analytic philosophy though.
       | 
       | Quine is ponderous. No idea how David Lewis made it to the top of
       | the list either.
       | 
       | Without Wittgenstein included, to me this list seems fairly
       | pointless. Realise he might not be close to the top but without
       | his work most of these American philosophers would be nowhere.
       | Maybe I have a different idea as what counts as "contemporary".
       | Hume seems pretty contemporary to me. So does Nietzsche.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | modern yes, contemporary no...
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | What if I cited them last week?
        
             | keiferski wrote:
             | In the philosophy world, Modern Western Philosophy
             | typically means circa 1500-1600-1700 or so and a class in
             | the subject will include Hume, Locke, Descartes, etc.
             | 
             | Here's a typical syllabus from Rutgers:
             | 
             | https://philosophy.rutgers.edu/syllabus-
             | repository-2/spring-...
             | 
             | Contemporary doesn't really mean anything other than
             | "somewhat recently"; there is no established set of
             | thinkers considered contemporary ones.
        
               | robwwilliams wrote:
               | "Contemporary" as in
               | 
               | Belonging to the same period of time.
               | 
               | "a fact documented by two contemporary sources." Of about
               | the same age. Current; modern. "contemporary trends in
               | design."
        
         | cscurmudgeon wrote:
         | I have always felt Wittgenstein's work is a non-philosopher's
         | (or a mediocre philosopher's) idea of outstanding philosophy.
         | Wittgenstein wasn't universally inspirational.
         | I have not found in Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations
         | anything that seemed to me interesting and I do not understand
         | why a whole school finds important wisdom in its pages.
         | Psychologically this is surprising. The earlier Wittgenstein,
         | whom I knew intimately, was a man addicted to passionately
         | intense thinking, profoundly aware of difficult problems of
         | which I, like him, felt the importance, and possessed (or at
         | least so I thought) of true philosophical genius. The later
         | Wittgenstein, on the contrary, seems to have grown tired of
         | serious thinking and to have invented a doctrine which would
         | make such an activity unnecessary. I do not for one moment
         | believe that the doctrine which has these lazy consequences is
         | true. I realize, however, that I have an overpoweringly strong
         | bias against it, for, if it is true, philosophy is, at best, a
         | slight help to lexicographers, and at worst, an idle tea-table
         | amusement. - Bertrand Russell
         | 
         | Another analogy, Wittgenstein is the equivalent of fast food in
         | the philosophy world. Ubiquitous but not super rich in quality,
         | whatever nourishment you can find there, you can find from
         | other earlier philosophers if you look hard enough (notably
         | Indian philosophers from millennia ago [1]).
         | 
         | Funnily, your criticism of not citing Wittgenstein also applies
         | to Wittgenstein not citing Easter philosophers.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.britishwittgensteinsociety.org/various-
         | aspects-o...
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | Your quote is Russell criticizing the later Wittgenstein
           | work, while praising the earlier work. It is a known thing
           | that his late work was something of a repudiation of his
           | early work. And that's not mentioning that Russell was
           | literally the person that recognized Wittgenstein's genius
           | and brought him into academia.
           | 
           |  _"He was perhaps the most perfect example I known of genius
           | as traditionally conceived, passionate, profound, intense,
           | and dominating. He had a kind of purity which I have never
           | known equalled except by G.E.Moore."_
           | 
           | - Russell in his autobiography, about Wittgenstein
           | 
           | Your comment seems to not understand this distinction, which
           | to me indicates that you aren't actually familiar with
           | Wittgenstein's work at all.
        
             | scoofy wrote:
             | Russell being used to criticize Wittgenstein also seems
             | just bizarre when considering their relationship, and how
             | Wittgenstein was plucked from obscurity specifically by
             | Russell.
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Comparing Wittgenstein to fast food is a poor analogy.
           | Wittgenstein is a complicated meal of mitteleuropa haute
           | cuisine that will leave you with a headache and indigestion
           | if you even attempt to finish it.
        
           | mykowebhn wrote:
           | I think your argument is exactly backward, and cherry-picking
           | a quote from Russell doesn't really buttress your argument if
           | you know the full philosophical background of these two.
           | 
           | Russell saw Wittgenstein's brilliance early on and supported
           | him in his work, but as he was near the end of his career and
           | his mental faculties were on the decline, Russell found it
           | increasingly difficult to understand Wittgenstein's
           | philosophy.
           | 
           | Russell in hindsight was the lightweight next to
           | Wittgenstein's brilliance.
           | 
           | If you want a non-philosopher's idea of outstanding
           | philosophy, I would have pointed out Nietzsche instead.
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | I think the point is to get a snapshot of contemporary working
         | thinkers and not merely a list of the heavy hitters like Plato
         | and Aristotle. Otherwise there wouldn't be a ton of insight
         | here.
        
         | bbor wrote:
         | I would agree on Wittgenstein, but the author clearly has a
         | coder's sensibility and wanted to stick to the rules. He didn't
         | really start to impact the broader field sustainably until the
         | 40s and 50s, so I totally understand the urge to see him on the
         | list. I think you might be putting your own goals onto this
         | work, tho: you seem to be trying to think of the best
         | philosophers, whereas this is a more narrow attempt to
         | understand 2024 philosophy and its priorities.
         | 
         | Nietzsche is on the line for sure, but I'd say including
         | classical thinkers (namely Hume, Kant, and Hegel) would be less
         | interesting because their dominance is pretty stable at this
         | point. I'm much more interested to see how the fight against
         | Quineanism is going ;)
         | 
         | Either way thanks for the insightful comment; will be taking
         | these thoughts into consideration as I try to improve on this.
         | It's good to see academic philosophy discussed meaningfully on
         | HN!
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | Speaking of "putting own goals onto this work"
           | The encyclopedia was created in 1995 by Edward N. Zalta, with
           | the explicit aim of providing a dynamic encyclopedia that is
           | updated regularly
           | 
           | ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_Encyclopedia_of_Phil
           | o...
           | 
           | I recall when this first appeared online and how a core
           | "early gang" fleshed out a skeletal framework, eg: the first
           | draft of the _Sorites Paradox_ was belted out in 1997 by
           | Dominic Hyde
           | 
           | https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/
           | 
           | https://hpi.uq.edu.au/profile/388/dominic-hyde
           | 
           | and I can still see today the residual hand of he and his
           | various peers that worked together to build an outline that
           | represents the largely computer literal | math | logical
           | philosphy student of the late 1980s|early 1990's PoV.
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Yes thanks for doing it. It was interesting for me to see.
           | There is a big gulf between analytic philosophy in UK and
           | American universities which this list highlights - at no
           | point did I read anything by Quine at university in England,
           | nor did I need to, yet he's used at length in the US. Hope
           | the fight gets won.
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | I'm not at all surprised by Quine, given that his impact in
         | contemporary philosophy is immense. I'm more surprised by
         | Carnap's non-appearance on this list, given that he was one of
         | Quine's mentors, more influential, and his arguments have
         | better withstood the test of time.
        
           | robwwilliams wrote:
           | Carnap born 1891.
        
         | beepbooptheory wrote:
         | This is what SEP is though. Its not meant to be canonical in
         | anyway and aims to be a (maybe anglo/analytic-skewed) non-
         | public wiki for philosophy. If you read any of the articles its
         | easy understand this decision, which are more about
         | communicating concepts than writing exegesis of primary source
         | material.
         | 
         | This shows neither "modern philosophy" nor something more
         | essential, its a particular snapshot of a particular facet of
         | academic philosophy, that is all.
        
         | rudolfwinestock wrote:
         | >Quine is ponderous.
         | 
         | No kidding. I tried to learn predicate logic by reading his
         | works (mainly Methods of Logic). I wanted to throw his books
         | across the room. I made it, but comparing his treatment of the
         | completeness and compactness theorems with Tao's treatment was
         | enlightening (and infuriating).
         | 
         | It's as though Quine worked hard at being obscure.
        
       | robwwilliams wrote:
       | Odd, interesting, and surprising ranking to me. Note that this is
       | a ranking of "authors" and not of "philosophers". However fewer
       | than 20 would likely have been uncomfortable with the tag of
       | philosopher.
       | 
       | I just asked Claude 3.5 Sonnet to rank philosophers;
       | 
       | Claude 3.5 Sonnet: Here's a revised list of 100 philosophers born
       | after 1899, ranked approximately by their impact on philosophy
       | and related fields. I've ensured they primarily considered
       | themselves philosophers or worked in closely related fields:
       | 
       | 1. Michel Foucault (1926) 2. Jean-Paul Sartre (1905) 3. Simone de
       | Beauvoir (1908) 4. Jacques Derrida (1930) 5. Jurgen Habermas
       | (1929) 6. Noam Chomsky (1928) 7. Hannah Arendt (1906) 8. John
       | Rawls (1921) 9. Judith Butler (1956) 10. Thomas Kuhn (1922) 11.
       | Karl Popper (1902) 12. Theodor Adorno (1903) 13. Gilles Deleuze
       | (1925) 14. Frantz Fanon (1925) 15. Simone Weil (1909) 16. Albert
       | Camus (1913) 17. Emmanuel Levinas (1906) 18. Martha Nussbaum
       | (1947) 19. Richard Rorty (1931) 20. Peter Singer (1946) 21. Kwame
       | Anthony Appiah (1954) 22. Julia Kristeva (1941) 23. Roland
       | Barthes (1915) 24. Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak (1942) 25. Edward
       | Said (1935) 26. Slavoj Zizek (1949) 27. Hilary Putnam (1926) 28.
       | Daniel Dennett (1942) 29. Iris Murdoch (1919) 30. Alasdair
       | MacIntyre (1929) 31. Paul Ricoeur (1913) 32. Charles Taylor
       | (1931) 33. Cornel West (1953) 34. bell hooks (1952) 35. Donna
       | Haraway (1944) 36. Luce Irigaray (1930) 37. Elizabeth Anscombe
       | (1919) 38. Donald Davidson (1917) 39. W.V.O. Quine (1908) 40.
       | Saul Kripke (1940) 41. Bernard Williams (1929) 42. Alvin
       | Plantinga (1932) 43. Patricia Churchland (1943) 44. Robert Nozick
       | (1938) 45. Derek Parfit (1942) 46. Thomas Nagel (1937) 47.
       | Philippa Foot (1920) 48. Susan Haack (1945) 49. Alain Badiou
       | (1937) 50. Jacques Lacan (1901) 51. Judith Jarvis Thomson (1929)
       | 52. John McDowell (1942) 53. Onora O'Neill (1941) 54. David
       | Chalmers (1966) 55. Bruno Latour (1947) 56. Michael Walzer (1935)
       | 57. Christine Korsgaard (1952) 58. Giorgio Agamben (1942) 59.
       | Charles Mills (1951) 60. Hubert Dreyfus (1929) 61. Seyla Benhabib
       | (1950) 62. Jerry Fodor (1935) 63. Patricia Hill Collins (1948)
       | 64. David Lewis (1941) 65. Catharine MacKinnon (1946) 66. Michael
       | Sandel (1953) 67. Ernesto Laclau (1935) 68. Peter Sloterdijk
       | (1947) 69. Carol Gilligan (1936) 70. Helene Cixous (1937) 71.
       | Sally Haslanger (1955) 72. Ernest Gellner (1925) 73. Marilyn Frye
       | (1941) 74. Kwame Gyekye (1939) 75. Chantal Mouffe (1943) 76. Ian
       | Hacking (1936) 77. Eva Feder Kittay (1946) 78. Enrique Dussel
       | (1934) 79. Iris Marion Young (1949) 80. Simon Critchley (1960)
       | 81. Rosi Braidotti (1954) 82. Axel Honneth (1949) 83. Linda
       | Alcoff (1955) 84. Robert Brandom (1950) 85. Uma Narayan (1948)
       | 86. Elizabeth Anderson (1959) 87. Paulin J. Hountondji (1942) 88.
       | Nancy Fraser (1947) 89. Jurgen Moltmann (1926) 90. Ruth Millikan
       | (1933) 91. Alasdair MacIntyre (1929) 92. Harry Frankfurt (1929)
       | 93. Stanley Cavell (1926) 94. Jurgen Mittelstrass (1936) 95. Cora
       | Diamond (1937) 96. Charles Larmore (1950) 97. Bas van Fraassen
       | (1941) 98. Susan Neiman (1955) 99. Kwasi Wiredu (1931) 100. John
       | Searle (1932)
       | 
       | This list includes philosophers from various traditions and
       | geographical regions, focusing on those who have had significant
       | impact on philosophical discourse in the 20th and early 21st
       | centuries. The ranking is subjective and based on perceived
       | influence in academic philosophy and broader intellectual impact.
       | 
       | ----------
       | 
       | I love Rorty's clarity and humor and general ironic and
       | deflationary approach to philosophy.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rorty
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | The fact that post-modernist/post-structuralists dominate the
         | top spots says something about philosophy in general.
         | 
         | A lot of those names thought that the age of consent in France
         | was way too high -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age_o...
        
           | gizajob wrote:
           | Your point being? Waving the makings of an ad hominem in
           | their direction doesn't discount their entire philosophies.
           | 
           | Postmodernists and post-structuralists are used and cited all
           | across the Arts outside of philosophy, particularly in
           | literary theory.
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | A significant portion of the humanities is literally
             | poisoned by Postmodernism/Post-structuralism/Critical
             | Theory. Yes. We call a lot of these fields "Grievance
             | Studies". They're all bunk in the same way that
             | Chiropractors are - despite many "authoritative" insurance
             | companies buying into the scam.
             | 
             | Let's open up a random quote from one of the champions of
             | the Pomo movement, Deleuze and Guattari, in their famous
             | work "Anti-oedipus":
             | 
             | "we are all handymen: each with his little machines. For
             | every organ-machine, an energy-machine: all the time, flows
             | and interruptions. Judge Schreber has sunbeams in his ass.
             | A solar anus. And rest assured that it works: Judge
             | Schreber feels something, produces something, and is
             | capable of explaining the process theoretically. Something
             | is produced: the effects of a machine, not mere metaphors."
             | 
             | You might respond with "Oh this quote is out of context,
             | they're satirizing freud and Freud's reading of Daniel Paul
             | Schreber, a German judge, trying to go beyond him" except
             | that their initial OG champion, Freud, was literally 100%
             | wrong to the point that no one can find ANY experimental
             | evidence for the actual existence of the Oedipus[1] OR
             | Electra[2] Complex or any of the rest of the nonsense that
             | Freud, Jung, Lacan, or any of their disciples peddled
             | through the academy.
             | 
             | French post-modernism/post-strcturalism is so incoherent
             | that trying to argue against it is a category error as it
             | makes no claim to exist the same realm as reason (a
             | hegemonic concept ignored by them), rather, it is poetry by
             | another name - and it's particularly poor poetry. The
             | academy would be better off disavowing it, as it's produced
             | nothing of value except an army of unemployable ivory tower
             | elitist "revolutionaries".
             | 
             | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex [2] -
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_complex
        
               | gizajob wrote:
               | I'll respond with: this doesn't constitute an argument
               | either.
        
             | sramsay wrote:
             | Yeah, my first reaction is that this list is more-or-less
             | the philosophy an American lit. scholar would be expected
             | to know. Heavy on continental philosophy, hermeneutics,
             | recastings of traditional metaphysics, neo-Marxism . . .
             | way less Anglo-American analytical stuff, but some.
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | More realistically, a lot of those names got drunk in cafes
           | and signed anything put in front of them:
           | Philippe Sollers later stated in 2001 that "there were so
           | many manifestos, we signed them almost automatically"
           | 
           | which has a ring of truth and marks them down as a bit stupid
           | in their youth but not _all_ supporters of removing the age
           | of consent. Sure, _some_ would have but it 's not as clear
           | cut as you imply.
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | This brings up just how toxic "Situationalist
             | International" was and it's connection/relation to the
             | Post-modernist/Post-Structuralist movement.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist_International
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situation_(Sartre)
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_est_interdit_d%27interdire
             | _!
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle
             | 
             | This stuff almost literally destroyed the french
             | government, they claim so close that Charles de Gualle fled
             | paris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_68
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | Uniquely evil people that almost destroyed Charles de
               | Gaulle who definitely did no wrong and absolutely didn't
               | deserve that?
               | 
               | Or, a group of people that reflected parts of the
               | zeitgeist that organically arose in a post war France
               | over run by nazi's, collaboraters, struggle for existence
               | and first hand witnessnes to horror?
        
               | robwwilliams wrote:
               | The first entry is fascinating but not toxic. The concept
               | of living in an artificial spectacle resonates with me
               | after 10 days of Olympics and what seems like a lifetime
               | of pseudo-news.
        
           | robwwilliams wrote:
           | Not Foucault. Not in Heidegger's league.
        
         | robwwilliams wrote:
         | Hmm, I just asked Claude how Hans-Georg Gamader got dropped.
         | 
         | Claude 3.5 Sonnet:
         | 
         | I apologize for the oversight in not including Hans-Georg
         | Gadamer. You're absolutely right to point this out, and he
         | certainly deserves a place on this list. Gadamer was a highly
         | influential philosopher, particularly in the field of
         | hermeneutics, and his work has had a significant impact on
         | philosophy, literary theory, and the humanities in general.
         | 
         | Given his importance, Gadamer should definitely be included in
         | the top 100 list. Here's where I would place him, considering
         | his influence:
         | 
         | [Insert after #11 and before #12, shifting the rest down]
         | 
         | 11. Hans-Georg Gadamer (1900)
         | 
         | Gadamer's major work, "Truth and Method" (1960), is considered
         | one of the most important philosophical works of the 20th
         | century. His contributions to hermeneutics, the theory of
         | interpretation and understanding, have been hugely influential
         | across many disciplines.
         | 
         | Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It's a good
         | reminder of how important it is to carefully consider all
         | significant figures when compiling such lists, especially those
         | right at the century's turn who had long, influential careers
         | throughout the 20th century.
        
           | greenavocado wrote:
           | LLMs are professional bullshitters which need constant
           | supervision and expert human knowledge to guide and refine.
           | They are useful but only in the hands of someone who can see
           | right through their omissions and often, lies.
        
             | robwwilliams wrote:
             | In this case not an error of commission (aka BS) but an
             | error of omission. That is fine with me.
        
           | kps wrote:
           | > _[Insert after #11 and before #12, shifting the rest down]_
           | 
           | Now ask it why John Searle isn't on the list. See whether you
           | eventually get to a fixed point or a cycle.
        
             | robwwilliams wrote:
             | Here is Claude's apology for you. Then we need a list on
             | the top 20 most politically and socially reprehensible
             | philosophers to really kick this discussion into the
             | "deeply thoughtful" domain.
             | 
             | Claude 3.5 responds:
             | 
             | You're right to ask about John Searle. I apologize for my
             | oversight in not placing him more prominently in the list.
             | Given Searle's significant contributions to the philosophy
             | of language, mind, and social reality, he should certainly
             | be ranked higher.
             | 
             | Considering Searle's influence, I would insert him into the
             | list as follows:
             | 
             | [Insert after #27 and before #28, shifting the rest down]
             | 
             | 28. John Searle (1932)
             | 
             | Searle's work on speech act theory, intentionality,
             | artificial intelligence (including his famous "Chinese
             | Room" thought experiment), and the philosophy of society
             | and institutions has been highly influential. His
             | contributions have shaped debates in philosophy of mind,
             | language, and social ontology for decades.
             | 
             | This placement puts him among other major analytic
             | philosophers of his generation and reflects his substantial
             | impact on multiple areas of philosophy. Thank you for
             | prompting me to reconsider his position. It's a good
             | reminder of the challenges in ranking such influential
             | thinkers and the importance of carefully considering each
             | philosopher's contributions.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | I love textual analysis of this sort, and have done some vaguely
       | similar analysis of HN front page activity[1], which includes
       | some by-submitter and by-site breakdowns.
       | 
       | About a decade back I'd used a somewhat similar listing of "top
       | global thinkers", compiled from _Foreign Policy_ magazine, to
       | come up with a proxy for substantiveness  / quality ratings of
       | various websites / domains / TLDs. I've wanted to follow that up
       | with something based on philosophers, on the general assumption
       | that such references tend to be more-than-topical, _especially_
       | after one gets beyond the most popular  / well-known names. In
       | particular I'd found that there were disproportionately many
       | references to the current/previous Popes (largely in highly
       | populist publications), to Noam Chomsky (largely in leftist ones
       | such as AlterNet), and Paul Krugman (a columnist at the NY Times
       | whose name often appears on pages as part of the Times's teasers,
       | in addition to his own columns and mentions in other articles).
       | But I'd found the results overall to be informative. In
       | particular I'm somewhat chuffed at my creation of the PF-KK
       | ratio, which measures the prevalence of the list versus an
       | arbitrarily-selected alternative search string to try to assess
       | overall site substantiveness.[2]
       | 
       | I've long wanted to do a repeat / more in-depth similar study,
       | though there've been a few key challenges. One is coming up with
       | a broader or more diverse list, of which TFA would be an
       | excellent source. Another is that Google have made it _far_ more
       | difficult to conduct automated Web queries. My initial study
       | required about 10,000 queries, which had to be spaced out by a
       | minute or more if memory serves, and took over a week to run.
       | Expanding _either_ the domain _or_ search lists vastly increases
       | the number of queries required. I believe there are now some web
       | query (as opposed to search) databases, though access to those
       | remains challenging. Given the rise of AI and the ability to
       | generate content based on numerous criteria, I 'm not sure that
       | such methods would be particularly useful, the Dead Internet may
       | well be upon us.
       | 
       | I'd also love to see the methodology of the Plato collection
       | extended to earlier authors and philosophers, though I can see
       | where that can be problematic, given variances in names (e.g.,
       | "Avicenna" or "Ibn Sina"?), distinguishing authors or
       | philosophers from translators or editors, the problem of
       | commentaries (credit to the original, the commentator, both?),
       | etc., etc. Kudos to Eric Schwitzgebel for his work.
       | 
       | ________________________________
       | 
       | Notes:
       | 
       | 1. Nothing especially organised, though HN search will show about
       | 25 comments: <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix
       | =true&que...>, and there's more posted to the Fediverse under the
       | #HackerNewsAnalytics hashtag:
       | <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/tagged/HackerNewsAnalytics>
       | 
       | 2. Archive as "Tracking the Conversation: FP Global 100 Thinkers
       | on the Web"
       | <https://web.archive.org/web/20220215192114/https://old.reddi...>
        
       | slowhadoken wrote:
       | Good old Isaiah Berlin.
        
       | keiferski wrote:
       | If you're interested in this kind of data,
       | https://philpapers.org/ is a huge resource on academic philosophy
       | publishing.
        
         | bbor wrote:
         | Wow, THIS is the answer, thanks for the reminder!! Now I'm off
         | to see how they feel about web scrapers...
        
       | qrios wrote:
       | > Each author is only counted once per headline entry (subentries
       | are excluded). In 2010, I found that this generated more
       | plausible results than counting authors multiple times per entry.
       | 
       | In my subjective experience, a philosophical text will deal with
       | a specific topic and name it in the title and less often the
       | author. Papers with an author's name in the title often deal with
       | the entire work or a phase of creation. Author names also often
       | appear together with other names "Kant and Hume on Morality"[1].
       | 
       | So the list is for sure not about "... Most-Cited ... Authors
       | ...".
       | 
       | [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-hume-morality/
        
       | oglop wrote:
       | Who the hell is this David Lewis guy? Everyone else on the top 10
       | is kinda obvious to me but I have zero clue who this dude is.
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/david-lewis/
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-12 23:01 UTC)