[HN Gopher] Google Is a Very Strange Monopolist
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google Is a Very Strange Monopolist
        
       Author : Bostonian
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2024-08-11 19:32 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | Bostonian wrote:
       | https://archive.is/qkWUQ
       | 
       | 'The judge says 90% of search queries are run on Google, and its
       | only major general search competitor is Microsoft (now valued at
       | $3 trillion). However, the judge concedes that Microsoft was slow
       | in adapting its search engine for mobile devices, causing it to
       | lose ground.
       | 
       | "Google has not achieved market dominance by happenstance. It has
       | hired thousands of highly skilled engineers, innovated
       | consistently, and made shrewd business decisions," Judge Mehta
       | writes. "The result is the industry's highest quality search
       | engine, which has earned Google the trust of hundreds of millions
       | of daily users."
       | 
       | So what's the antitrust problem? The judge says Google's
       | advertising revenue-sharing payments to Apple, Mozilla and others
       | for default placement have made it harder for potential startups
       | and Microsoft to compete.
       | 
       | Yet users can switch to other search engines if they want. And
       | Judge Mehta notes that Apple and Mozilla have "promotional deals"
       | with other search engines. Microsoft pitched Apple "on making
       | Bing the default multiple times." Startup Duck Duck Go also "made
       | a bid to be the default for private browsing mode searches on
       | Safari," but neither it nor Microsoft "succeeded in part due to
       | their inferior quality."
       | 
       | This makes for a very strange monopolist--one that does better by
       | consumers because its search engine is superior. "Google's
       | partners value its quality, and they continue to select Google as
       | the default because its search engine provides the best bet for
       | monetizing queries," the judge explains, adding that Google "has
       | continued to innovate in search."'
        
         | notarobot123 wrote:
         | > The law is supposed to protect consumers from a monopolist
         | that uses its power to raise prices or restrict choices.
         | 
         | This is a very narrow view of what antitrust is all about. Are
         | monopolies essentially fine as long as they don't abuse their
         | power too much?
        
           | pram wrote:
           | Historically "yes" they've been "fine" if they're regulated,
           | like the Bell System. Although obviously
           | Google/Apple/Microsoft/Meta would prefer to be monopolies
           | without "government interference"
        
           | gotorazor wrote:
           | I think the suit points out that google does restrict choice.
           | For pricing, Google's search dominance raises the prices of
           | word advertising.
        
           | choilive wrote:
           | In short, yes. Monopolies are not illegal in the US per se.
           | It is only illegal if they exploit their position via what is
           | known as "anticompetitive conduct".
        
             | Narhem wrote:
             | I'd say all the technology companies are relatively
             | anticompetitive due to the nature of the work.
        
           | BadHumans wrote:
           | Why wouldn't they be? If you fail to make a competitive
           | product because your company sucks, I don't see why courts
           | should take action against the company that is making a good
           | product. However, if that company is using their market
           | dominate position to prevent competitive products from
           | entering the market, then they should be punished for that.
        
           | DannyBee wrote:
           | In the US, yes.
           | 
           | Historically, in the US, just about all forms of antitrust
           | behavior (resale price maintenance, group boycotts, tying,
           | etc) were considered per-se violations of law. That is, you
           | didn't have to prove it harmed anyone, only that it happened.
           | 
           | There were a few things analyzed under the rule of reason
           | (basically does it do more harm than good to consumers, only
           | considering economic effects).
           | 
           | Since the early 1970's, that has slowly changed, and the
           | number of things considered per-se violations has narrowed
           | considerably. Most things are now analyzed under the rule of
           | reason, and you have to show they really are harming
           | consumers.
           | 
           | So to circle back, being a monopoly in the US is fine[1] on
           | its own.
           | 
           | This is all very different than Europe.
           | 
           | [1] Here's what the DOJ's antitrust division says:
           | Unilateral conduct is outside the purview of section 2 unless
           | the actor possesses monopoly power or is likely to achieve
           | it.            The mere possession or exercise of monopoly
           | power is not an offense; the law addresses only the
           | anticompetitive acquisition or maintenance of such power (and
           | certain related attempts).            Mere harm to
           | competitors--without harm to the competitive process--does
           | not violate section 2.            Competitive and
           | exclusionary conduct can look alike--indeed, the same conduct
           | can have both beneficial and exclusionary effects--making it
           | hard to distinguish conduct that should be deemed unlawful
           | from conduct that should not.            Because competitive
           | and exclusionary conduct often look alike, courts and
           | enforcers need to be concerned with both underdeterrence and
           | overdeterrence.
           | 
           | See https://www.justice.gov/archives/atr/competition-and-
           | monopol....
        
         | massysett wrote:
         | > Yet users can switch to other search engines if they want.
         | 
         | Advertisers can't. What are the other choices - Bing, maybe
         | Facebook?
         | 
         | Furthermore, search users aren't even Google's customers.
         | Advertisers are. So whether users can switch is not an
         | interesting question.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | This suit [1] specifically is about users, not advertisers.
           | It was brought in 2020.
           | 
           | There is a separate suit [2] that is specifically about
           | advertisers, not users. It was brought last year.
           | 
           | You assert that only the second one is an interesting
           | question. I'd say they both are. Contrary to your statement,
           | search users are _absolutely_ Google 's customers. But a
           | company can have more than one set of customers.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC
           | _(2...
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC
           | _(2...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-11 23:01 UTC)