[HN Gopher] The Powers of Soviet Puppetry
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       The Powers of Soviet Puppetry
        
       Author : prismatic
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2024-08-07 04:59 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.historytoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.historytoday.com)
        
       | cess11 wrote:
       | Propaganda?
       | 
       | Sure. Still better than contemporary pervasive advertising.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | I wonder why that word, propaganda, is only used against
         | foreign influences and not ones within the country. Both sides
         | use propaganda everyday - in political speeches or social media
         | or whatever.
        
           | persnickety wrote:
           | It's not. I've personally heard it used to mean political
           | speech in general, and separately to mean dishonest political
           | speech internally. The definition seems to vary based on
           | cultural background.
        
           | xg15 wrote:
           | It's such an ugly word, we prefer the term "public
           | relations"...
        
           | 082349872349872 wrote:
           | In _Psychological Warfare_ (1948), Linebarger apologises that
           | he (having been subject to army approval for publication)
           | only gives examples of enemy propaganda, but reassures the
           | reader that the Allied departments in which he worked churned
           | out exactly the same kinds of thing in the opposite
           | direction, and even relates an anecdote of reverse
           | engineering a captured Japanese PsyWar HQ to discover that
           | their org charts looked very familiar, very much like his
           | own.
        
           | cess11 wrote:
           | Back in the day, when the first nazis were still around, they
           | used propaganda as a neutral word and thought of persuasive
           | mass communication as a good thing.
           | 
           | It's related to a progressivist and modern view of societies
           | being at different points of the same trajectory between
           | primitive and advanced, or later, developing and developed.
           | Forcing mass communication on people brought their primitive
           | minds to a better state, they thought.
           | 
           | During the postwar period mass communication was honed by
           | academics and married private capital, producing somewhat
           | scientific marketing disciplines optimising for efficiency in
           | changing people's minds at scale. Puppet theaters as mass
           | communication wouldn't have survived that if they were still
           | around.
           | 
           | Seeing similarities with advertising is rather easy even
           | without this historic connection.
        
           | golergka wrote:
           | Given the negative meaning that the word "propaganda" has
           | today, I think we should only apply it to deceits or outright
           | lies. If a government disseminates information that serves
           | it's interests, but this information is also a decently
           | subjective representation of reality, we should use some
           | other word for it.
           | 
           | For example, Radio Liberty was used as "propaganda" tool by
           | the US. However, it was also a fairly good source of
           | information -- certainly closer to the truth than soviet mass
           | media at the time. Should we really call it propaganda,
           | putting it into the same category as aforementioned soviet
           | media? I don't think so.
        
         | benterix wrote:
         | I disagree. Although ads often do have negative influence on
         | the population, although it very much depends on what is being
         | advertised, who is targetted and so on, it's a far cry from
         | propaganda, where the whole nation is being convinced that it
         | is fine to kill the members of another nation because someone
         | declared them to be `nazi`[0].
         | 
         | [0] Another term that has been abused so much that not only it
         | lost its original meaning but became almost expressionless.
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | When I decided to learn the cyrillic alphabet, I had the
       | advantage of being able to watch a few relevant episodes of
       | Spokoinoi Nochi, Malyshi; not only did I learn my alphabet but I
       | really appreciated the puppetry of not just hands and mouth but
       | even the eyes --to great expression-- of Stepashka, Filia i
       | Khriusha.
       | 
       | (one of these days I suppose I should also learn the cyrillic
       | handwriting script...)
        
         | tropdrop wrote:
         | There is such a cool puppet culture there. If you ever get the
         | chance and are interested, you should check out a production by
         | Obraztsov [1] - a lot of the concerts are on YouTube.
         | 
         | When I was in Russia in 2018 I was shocked at how big puppet
         | theatres are there, still, and perhaps even more so. They're a
         | vibrant part of life, very sophisticated, no doubt due to the
         | popularity of Obraztsov and his ilk. It made me realize how
         | neglected this part of theatre is in the US (not to mention
         | circuses and clowns, which by now have just been thoroughly
         | associated with horror or terrible birthday parties. Only
         | Cirque du Soleil gets a mild pass).
         | 
         | I kept wishing one of my colleagues (in grad school currently)
         | would make a dissertation about the rise of puppetry in the
         | USSR and beyond, but alas, she abandoned her work with Russian
         | theatre, though the probable reasons are obvious.
         | 
         | 1 - https://youtu.be/SuR174hMr_Q?t=1208
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | > On 10 October 1935 the People's Commissariat for Education of
       | the Kazakh SSR had declared that a puppet theatre be established
       | 
       | Just a couple of years after communists engineered a famine that
       | killed 2 million kazahks.
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | and a couple of years after starving to death 3.5 to 5 million
         | Ukrainians (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) This was
         | a large scale operation
         | 
         | It likely started as an accident, but then was really
         | convenient....
        
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