[HN Gopher] The Story of Samsung's failed deal with iFixit, as t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Story of Samsung's failed deal with iFixit, as told by iFixit's
       CEO
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 210 points
       Date   : 2024-08-06 03:51 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.androidauthority.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.androidauthority.com)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related iFixit blog post from 3 years ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27885176
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related from 2 months ago:
       | 
       |  _We 're ending our Samsung collaboration_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456107
        
       | wordofx wrote:
       | > Wiens sips a Diet Coke and settles in as I start explaining the
       | framework of our conversation. He interrupts me politely to get a
       | big caveat out of the way related to confidentiality terms iFixit
       | still has with Samsung.
       | 
       | I really struggle to read these types of interviews. If I wanted
       | to read the novel I would buy the book... but if I'm reading an
       | article I don't want the fluff...
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | Same, really annoys me. Guess writer has a word-count target to
         | meet and adding such fluff is an easy way to get there.
         | 
         | Guess one could train an LLM to de-fluff articles?
        
           | abdusco wrote:
           | I usually ask for ChatGPT for a 1000 word summary. Works
           | quite well for getting rid of unnecessary details.
        
             | Mistletoe wrote:
             | https://ea.rna.nl/2024/05/27/when-chatgpt-summarises-it-
             | actu...
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | Same for me. I'm sure that commercial writers these days face
         | all kinds of pressure regarding their writing styles.
         | 
         | But usually I just want pyramid-style writing for the news.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | It's invading everything, too. Ninja warrior used to be a show
         | about amazing athletes conquering the courses, with a quirky
         | backstory thrown in sometimes.
         | 
         | Now, almost everyone has a lengthy backstory that is told at
         | least once per season, and it's a significant amount of the
         | runtime of the show.
         | 
         | It's gotten to the point that even athletes that have basically
         | no backstory still end up with a lengthy segment on themselves.
         | For fairness, I guess?
        
           | TRiG_Ireland wrote:
           | Which is why World Ninja League (an actual sport) is better
           | than American Ninja Warrior (a TV show with a sporting
           | element). See also World Chase Tag vs Ultimate Tag, which has
           | basically the same distinction.
        
             | wccrawford wrote:
             | I had never heard of it. Thanks!
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Or maybe, just maybe, it's because viewers tested more
           | positively to the backstories and the connection helps them
           | choose someone to root for and therefore be more invested in
           | the show. The showrunners didn't do it for shits and giggles,
           | they did it because it makes them more money. If you want
           | just the sport bits, you can always watch Sasuke, the
           | original, which I believe has less backstory interstitials.
        
             | wccrawford wrote:
             | I imagine it's the same thing that caused the comment here
             | about not liking it. I don't care if it "tested well", I
             | don't like it.
             | 
             | And yes, I watch Sasuke when I get a chance. Also,
             | Australian Ninja Warrior. The British one isn't as good,
             | IMO, but we watch that, too.
        
             | joncrocks wrote:
             | Or it could be cheaper to make.
             | 
             | i.e. It's cheaper per unit-airtime to have a small crew
             | interviewing people for backstory (+ editing) than
             | recording people doing the course. They can pad-out the
             | expensive bit (holding the events) with filler/b-roll.
        
         | igornadj wrote:
         | Generally I agree, but this is one single paragraph of colour
         | followed by the rest being straight reporting below, and adds
         | important context.
        
         | pdar4123 wrote:
         | Folks agreeing with this take should take a hard look at their
         | attention spans and ability to focus and comprehend - it's
         | honestly really shocking to see how many people can't handle
         | sitting still and reading for 10 minutes (or fewer!) straight!
         | 
         | I should say I've struggled with this too, I have to be super
         | mindful otherwise I'll flip and skim and find myself
         | distracted. But it is interesting there's an embracing of this
         | by many - "I always ask ChatGPT to summarize xyz."
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > Folks agreeing with this take should take a hard look at
           | their attention spans and ability to focus and comprehend
           | 
           | It's not a complaint about the text being long. It's a
           | complaint about the text being content-free.
        
       | michaelt wrote:
       | _> "I don't know why Samsung insists on charging so much for
       | service parts," Wiens says, visibly frustrated. "The prices that
       | we see are out of line with what we know components actually cost
       | to manufacture." Wiens starts to elaborate but stops himself. He
       | clarifies that he would love to discuss this more, but his
       | contract with Samsung prevents him from doing so._
       | 
       | I mean, it's pretty easy to guess:
       | 
       | They want to run the spare parts division at a profit, they know
       | they've got no competition (except used parts off recycled
       | phones) and like some car makers, they know that means they can
       | charge through the nose.
       | 
       | Wikipedia tells me [1] Samsung released 17 distinct model numbers
       | in 2023, and 30 in 2022. Presumably a lot of those have custom,
       | nonstandard screens with rounded corners and curved edges and
       | camera notches and folding and fingerprint readers and whatnot.
       | So presumably the minimum order quantity is huge - they can't
       | just hold a few spare screens and make more on demand, they
       | probably have to buy (and pay for) several years of spares
       | upfront.
       | 
       | And of course every phone will have multiple parts, different
       | subassemblies (do you want to order the screen with or without
       | the fingerprint reader?) and maybe different colour schemes as
       | well. And any spare parts you make and don't sell are wasted.
       | 
       | So it's very easy for a spare parts division to be very
       | inefficient, if it's not well managed. If they're determined to
       | run the division at a profit - that inefficiency gets passed
       | right along to the end user.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy#Release_history
        
         | altdataseller wrote:
         | Its also easy for me to see as a 3rd party. Perhaps ifixit
         | should manage the whole manufacturing and logistical aspect of
         | maintaining all those spare parts themselves?
         | 
         | Too unprofitable? Too much hassle? Oh..
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | ifixit might be able to do a better job, yes. It's their core
           | business rather than an afterthought, after all.
           | 
           | But part of the problem can only be solved by Samsung.
           | They're the ones releasing 30 phone models in a single year -
           | and the ones making design decisions like having six
           | different screens available for the same phone because the
           | coloured bezel is glued to the screen.
           | 
           | And of course if Samsung buys screens for $50 and sells them
           | to ifixit for $100, holding 1000 in stock requires half the
           | capital outlay if Samsung does it.
        
         | chuckadams wrote:
         | If Samsung were straight with everyone and actually said as
         | much as you did, that would go a long way toward rebuilding the
         | relationship. But we all know that isn't the real reason for
         | the markup, or at least not the full reason.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | Selling parts for a profit is inconsistent with an order limit
         | of 7 parts per repair shop per quarter. A likely explanation is
         | that Samsung hopes people who cannot get their old Samsung
         | device repaired will buy a new Samsung device.
         | 
         | Samsung seems insufficiently concerned customers will hold
         | Samsung responsible for the problem and buy a device from
         | another manufacturer. I call this behavior market leader
         | syndrome.
        
         | initplus wrote:
         | This is a rod Samsung has made for their own back though. Fewer
         | SKU's, and more shared parts between models would be better for
         | consumers and for the planet.
        
       | daghamm wrote:
       | I really liked the plans Samsung employees had to give old phones
       | a new life. I have a box of mostly working phones from different
       | companies and I often wish there was an easy way to use them for
       | different automation tasks around the house.
       | 
       | Anyway, I'm not surprised it didn't work. Engineers see
       | possibilities while lawyers only think about how something goes
       | very wrong and the company ends up in court.
        
         | NoboruWataya wrote:
         | In other words, lawyers also see possibilities, albeit maybe
         | not the same possibilities as the engineers.
         | 
         | (That's assuming that this was shut down by Samsung legal. I
         | didn't see that in the article, though I skimmed a bit so maybe
         | I missed it.)
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > while lawyers only think about how something goes very wrong
         | and the company ends up in court.
         | 
         | To be fair to the lawyers -- that's primarily what companies
         | hire them to do.
        
           | DowagerDave wrote:
           | Maybe a lot of executives and lawyers start from this
           | perspective, but if so it's a bad position. Lawyers are
           | supposed to be educated risk mitigators, working to maximize
           | value not just minimize risk. I see so much CYA that they
           | adopt a "better safe than sorry" attitude that doesn't
           | accurately blend likelihood and impact, to the detriment of
           | the company. They also rely on thin case law and current
           | events which is basically just anecdotal evidence; they
           | rarely look at data or have the skills to interpret it.
           | You're better off hiring an actuary to run your GRC team.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > Lawyers are supposed to be educated risk mitigators,
             | working to maximize value not just minimize risk.
             | 
             | Not so sure I agree with this. Lawyers are supposed to
             | provide an analysis of the legal risks of things the
             | company wants to do. It's the job of management to take
             | that information and weigh it against the other business
             | factors to determine if the risk is worth taking or not.
             | 
             | If a company is too risk-averse, legally speaking, that's a
             | fault of management, not the lawyers.
             | 
             | That said, good lawyers won't just give a binary
             | "recommend/don't recommend" answer. They'll also provide
             | various options for other ways of doing something that have
             | different risk profiles.
        
         | supergeek133 wrote:
         | One frivolous lawsuit destroys the revenue from multiple happy
         | customers. Unfortunately.
        
           | dctoedt wrote:
           | > _One frivolous lawsuit destroys the revenue from multiple
           | happy customers._
           | 
           | And there's little or no downside for freelancing plaintiffs'
           | lawyers to file questionable lawsuits in the hope of
           | extracting a nuisance-value settlement. So the mentality
           | tends to be, _what the hell, let 's give it a shot._ (A.k.a.
           | "moral hazard.")
        
         | kwiens wrote:
         | It was a fantastic idea! We had the prototype software and it
         | worked great.
         | 
         | Take your old phone, put Docker on it, and do anything!
         | 
         | Phones, even very old phones, are incredibly capable devices:
         | cameras, antennas, accelerometers, large touchscreen. They just
         | need a new purpose.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | Well, the other thing I'd want from a repurposed old phone is
           | to remove the battery. Having it glued to the screen would be
           | a problem.
        
             | VHRanger wrote:
             | If its rooted you can put a charging controller on it.
             | 
             | The battery is not dangerous or even particularly
             | perishable if its always kept between 30% and 60% charge.
        
         | mark_undoio wrote:
         | I've heard if the company really wants stuff to get done
         | efficiently then they need to put a lawyer on the product team
         | - i.e. change the incentive from "prevent engineering creating
         | risks, even at the cost of them failing" to "help engineering
         | manage risk whilst succeeding".
        
           | VHRanger wrote:
           | I mean, its positioning them to enable rather than block.
           | 
           | We also see devops and netsec often play the lawyer role,
           | where they feel their job is to block others from deploying
           | anything that's not a golden cathedral.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | I had an idea and even basic prototype a million years ago
         | where I was going to get a bunch of used cheap Android phones
         | for free or very cheap, and make a transcoding cluster out of
         | it and make a ton of money. I figured that no one wants old
         | phones, and Android phones are relatively powerful and utilize
         | a relatively small amount of power, so I'd be able to undercut
         | competitors, and I thought it would be a good idea to get more
         | life out of these computers and reduce e-waste.
         | 
         | I got ahold of most of my friends and family's "old phones
         | living in a drawer", and I did more or less get the prototype
         | working with a message queue, but I never really figured out a
         | good way to utilize the built in h264 encoding chips, so it was
         | always extremely slow software encoding, slow enough to where I
         | don't think anyone would have actually paid me for it, and I
         | lost interest in it.
         | 
         | I don't think it was a dumb idea, and it's not something I've
         | completely given up on doing eventually, but I don't think it
         | was as clever as 23 year old me thought it was either. If
         | anyone here disagrees feel free to take it and run with it.
        
       | GeekyBear wrote:
       | In my opinion, if you are going position yourself as a neutral
       | arbiter of device repairability, it does not pass the smell test
       | to enter into for-profit business relationships with the
       | companies manufacturing the devices you rate.
       | 
       | Providing consumers with information on where to find reputable
       | companies selling repair parts would be a much more palatable
       | alternative to selling them yourself.
       | 
       | > "I don't know why Samsung insists on charging so much for
       | service parts," Wiens says, visibly frustrated. "The prices that
       | we see are out of line with what we know components actually cost
       | to manufacture." Wiens starts to elaborate but stops himself. He
       | clarifies that he would love to discuss this more, but his
       | contract with Samsung prevents him from doing so.
       | 
       | In this case, the for-profit business relationship with Samsung
       | also stands in the way of advocating for consumers.
        
         | diffeomorphism wrote:
         | I would argue the opposite. They are not aiming to be a neutral
         | arbiter but an active advocate for better repairability. For
         | that they should have for-profit business relationships with
         | basically all companies manufacturing such devices. In
         | particular, that would allow them to pressure or drop any one
         | misbehaving company.
         | 
         | > Providing consumers with information on where to find
         | reputable companies selling repair parts would be a much more
         | palatable alternative to selling them yourself.
         | 
         | That does not really make sense. They are a repair company and
         | the only company selling specialized parts is, of course, the
         | manufacturer.
         | 
         | > also stands in the way of advocating for consumers.
         | 
         | That is much too bleak. They made a deal happen in the first
         | place, which is large progress even if it did not quite work
         | out, and compromises are a fact of life.
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Agreed that for-profit relationships are inappropriate, and I
         | also think iFixit's business selling repair tools and parts is
         | inappropriate.
         | 
         | The whole thing comes across as self-promotion for their
         | tools/parts business. Add in their dabbling in lobbying for
         | regulations to force manufacturers to make devices that you can
         | buy ifixit (and other) kits for... and it starts to feel as
         | disingenuous as Epic's "pro-consumer" interest in outlawing the
         | razors/blades business model that game consoles use.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | Unfortunately finding high quality repair tools for these
           | class of devices is very hard, and iFixit provides pretty
           | high quality sets with great reusability.
           | 
           | While working on small screws like torque or pentalobe, you
           | either have crappy drivers or Wera. iFixit is the provider of
           | "good but not Wera" class tools which most DIYers and even
           | professionals can use without any problems.
           | 
           | Wera is "The Purveyor of Top Notch Tools", so that even
           | companies like Apple and BMW use/supply their tools in their
           | factories and repair centers, however they're out of reach
           | for many people.
        
             | mauvehaus wrote:
             | This 100%. Common tools you can at least find in a couple
             | different grades. Klein, for example, makes Philips
             | screwdrivers that are hugely better than commodity ones and
             | are available anywhere that sells to electricians (hint: go
             | to the electrical aisle at Home Depot for the Kleins).
             | 
             | Allen wrenches are easier to screw up than you might think,
             | but you can usually find some with a cut end rather than a
             | sheared end if you look. Get into Torx, and you still have
             | choices in the sizes used for construction screws. Get
             | beyond that and you've got very little.
             | 
             | iFixit fills that void. You're ordering anyway, and it's
             | nice to have some options that are quality without being
             | super expensive professional grade. Like, I'll use a
             | pentalobe screwdriver a couple times in my life. I need it
             | to work, but it doesn't have to be Wera levels of good or
             | ergonomic. Interchangeable bits are totally ok for my use
             | case; I don't need dedicated drivers in every size.
        
           | indymike wrote:
           | > dabbling in lobbying for regulations to force manufacturers
           | to make devices that you can buy ifixit (and other) kits...
           | feel as disingenuous
           | 
           | Availability of parts and tools is critical to being able to
           | repair anything and iFixit's entire business is based on
           | repair.
           | 
           | Strategies restricting parts and tools as a moat protecting
           | repair and secondary (used) markets should rightfully be
           | illegal. Lobbying for this, especially when your business is
           | repair and repair supplies, is self-preservation, and not
           | lobbying against forces trying to put your business out of
           | business is... irresponsible.
        
           | tempfile wrote:
           | What is disingenuous about being a repair parts company that
           | lobbies for devices that are easier to repair? From where I'm
           | standing they are being completely genuine: They profit when
           | people are able to buy repair parts, and they advocate for
           | more repairability in electronics. To me that seems like just
           | good alignment of values.
        
             | MadnessASAP wrote:
             | I agree with you, iFixit is a tool & parts company for
             | personal electronics that targets DIYers and independent
             | shops. They have a strong interest in ensuring they're
             | target market is as large as possible.
             | 
             | That means cooperating with and occasionally coercing OEMs
             | into playing ball.
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | > _I also think iFixit's business selling repair tools and
           | parts is inappropriate._
           | 
           | Good grief, I hope you phrased that poorly and don't actually
           | mean what you seem to mean.
        
           | jccalhoun wrote:
           | > iFixit's business selling repair tools and parts is
           | inappropriate.
           | 
           | But isn't that why they exist? I have always seen the
           | teardowns and repairability scores as advertising. If they
           | didn't sell repair tools then what would they make money on?
        
             | addandsubtract wrote:
             | The same way Wikipedia makes money. I would donate to a
             | crowd sourced repair wiki.
        
         | anoncow wrote:
         | I disagree. We need more companies like iFixit who advocate for
         | repair. If they are for profit, so be it. A non profit doing
         | the same would also be good, but more the merrier.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Well yeah, you have to read between the lines a bit, but it's
         | pretty obvious: Samsung prefers customers throwing away old
         | phones (especially cheaper ones) and buying new phones
         | (preferably Samsung, and preferably more expensive ones),
         | that's why replacement parts are more expensive (and
         | disproportionately more expensive for cheaper phones). Of
         | course they are glad if they can have some positive press
         | releases about sustainability thanks to a gullible
         | repairability website, but when it comes to actually put it
         | into practice, their enthusiasm evaporates very quickly...
        
         | chuckadams wrote:
         | Seems much simpler than that to me: iFixit isn't an advocacy
         | group, they're in the business of selling parts directly to
         | consumers, and they're calling out what looks to be an
         | outrageous markup from the sole supplier. Any advocacy they do
         | is in support of their business. They're a free market solution
         | demanding a freer market.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | The sole supplier is using the free market to set its
           | pricing, limit its warehousing overhead, and drive sales of
           | new products. Don't like it, buy something else.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | There are multiple options that can be explored at the same
             | time. Sticking with an absolutists idea is far more apt to
             | end in failure.
             | 
             | Support right to repair!
        
             | edmundsauto wrote:
             | This results in less repair ability and more waste. It also
             | probably boosts economic activity.
             | 
             | Withholding any moral judgement, I do think these current
             | incentives contribute to a direction we don't want society
             | to go. Feels like we should fix the incentives here to
             | encourage reuse.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | >Don't like it, buy something else.
             | 
             | Sure, but you're allowed to not be happy about it and to
             | criticize the supplier.
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | It sounds like you're saying "buy something else, and
             | that's all you should do", but loudly discussing these
             | things is part of making "buy something else" have a chance
             | of being effective.
             | 
             | Also, I like repairability laws here too even if some
             | people don't.
        
             | cloudsec9 wrote:
             | > sole supplier > free market
             | 
             | I'm sensing some contradiction in that.
             | 
             | Pricing and packaging parts in a way that ensures its
             | cheaper to buy a different phone is the opposite of a free
             | market. Breaking your screen or wearing out your battery
             | shouldn't mean you have to replace both, but it does if you
             | own a Samsung and want genuine Samsung parts.
             | 
             | Did this approach get disclosed when consumers bought the
             | phones, or only when something happened?
        
         | barryrandall wrote:
         | Access to parts and repair information usually requires
         | entering in to some sort of business relationship. Especially
         | when highly regulated components (radios, telephones) are
         | involved.
        
         | snapcaster wrote:
         | I want my advocates to have skin in the game, I assume
         | "neutral" just means "undisclosed private agenda". Put your
         | money on the table!
        
           | malfist wrote:
           | This is a very cynical take. People and organizations can be
           | neutral with ulterior motives
        
             | xeromal wrote:
             | > People and organizations can be neutral with ulterior
             | motives
             | 
             | Doesn't this mean exactly what the person you're replying
             | to said?
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | I assume they meant "without" instead of "with".
        
               | malfist wrote:
               | Typo and too late to edit. I meant to say without
        
             | thevillagechief wrote:
             | They _can_. But more often than not, you end up with
             | OpenAI. I 'd rather we just straight-up skip to business,
             | and go the Anthropic Public Benefit route.
        
         | fallat wrote:
         | wtf, for-profit business absolutely has the potential for
         | proper incentive alignment to achieve a goal.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | I disagree. iFixit offering original OEM spare parts for the
         | Steam Deck is amazing.
         | 
         | It's mutually beneficial: iFixit handles a service business
         | that Valve would rather not be in, and customers get a more
         | repairable product. It's also a source of revenue for iFixit
         | that is probably more reliable than depending on advertising or
         | selling tools.
         | 
         | A similar deal with Samsung or another phone maker would be
         | amazing.
        
           | robnado wrote:
           | This works for Steam because the Steam Deck is a low margin
           | device they sell to ensure they can't be shut out of their
           | profitable business of selling games by microsoft and apple.
           | To Steam, having a customer use the same steam deck for 10
           | years is not a big loss of revenue and supports their
           | business goals. Meanwhile, Samsung making repairs cheaper
           | means they are cannibalising the sale of new devices which is
           | their main source of profit and growth.
        
             | dangus wrote:
             | I disagree that Samsung's main source of profit and growth
             | for their smartphone business is the smartphones
             | themselves, at least if we zoom out to the long term. Those
             | are commoditized hardware devices. Each new generation of
             | phone is less compelling than the current one because the
             | product is essentially "done," much like a microwave or
             | toaster.
             | 
             | Samsung will make more money from you if they can sell you
             | cloud services and other ecosystem stuff, just like Apple
             | does with their platform.
             | 
             | Just look at how much revenue Apple's services business
             | brings in as a proportion of their business, at a much
             | better margin than hardware sales.
             | 
             | https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-
             | re...
             | 
             | Services are rapidly growing as a proportion of Apple's
             | electronics business and I suspect that Samsung is similar
             | if they're playing their cards right.
             | 
             | There's going to be a point where Samsung really doesn't
             | care if you have an old phone or not, as long as you are
             | using Samsung services for your digital life.
        
               | kroolik wrote:
               | Link requires premium account to read the actual data
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >A similar deal with Samsung or another phone maker would be
           | amazing.
           | 
           | Exactly. I usually use ifixit's guides but often by the parts
           | on amazon or ebay because generic parts are generic parts,
           | but if ifixit could certify that their parts are OEM
           | certified, I'd definitely consider paying the extra that they
           | charge to buy from them.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | > it does not pass the smell test to enter into for-profit
         | business relationships with the companies manufacturing the
         | devices you rate
         | 
         | This is too shallow. Yes, it's possible that this can go wrong.
         | Doesn't mean it will. If they're showing you on video how easy
         | or hard it is to repair something, that doesn't leave a lot of
         | room for the sort of thing you're hinting at.
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | There are many companies that just do whatever they can get away
       | with and because of their market position, this is a lot.
       | 
       | Maybe someday there will be a movement to boycott these abusive
       | companies or something.
       | 
       | Check out https://futo.org
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Why would people boycott a company with a strong market
         | position that is operating within the bounds of what it can get
         | away with?
         | 
         | This reads like suggesting people should boycott their favorite
         | restaurants because reasons.
        
           | ilaksh wrote:
           | Because what they get away with is abusive and shows no
           | regard for consumers.
           | 
           | Your comment reads like you ignored all of the context of my
           | comment.
           | 
           | It's like if your favorite restaurant served really good
           | burgers for $1000, but if the pickles and lettuce fell out
           | and you tried to put them back in, the waiter would come over
           | and slap the burger out of your hand and make you spend
           | another $1000 to get a whole new burger.
        
             | 3np wrote:
             | To be fair, you do have the option of buying a replacement
             | lettuce+sauce kit for $800 coupled with pickles for $300.
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | I guess we have different ideas about "context".
             | 
             | You're telling me that something very popular, with high
             | brand loyalty, is actually abusive and the people who are
             | loyal to it should not only stop buying but organize some
             | kind of boycott. Which is just strange.
             | 
             | In your hypothetical, nobody would go there. Nobody buys
             | $1000 burgers, nobody likes abusive service. But, in your
             | hypothetical, somehow this is not just a successful
             | restaurant but one of the most successful in the world.
             | Because... people are forced to go there?
             | 
             | I honestly am trying to be as charitable as possible and I
             | just can't see any sense in your position. As far as I can
             | tell you just dislike some brands and are angry that other
             | people like them and refuse to stop buying their products,
             | even though you think they should for their own good. It's
             | very convoluted.
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | It's not like that at all, because a restaurant which did
             | that would rapidly go out of business, and these companies
             | are quite profitable, because people like what they're
             | getting.
             | 
             | Repairability is treated like a terminal good around HN,
             | and that's understandable, but it doesn't reflect the
             | values of the general public. Most civilians who crack
             | their screen are going to put up with it until they can buy
             | a new phone, because they were going to get a new phone
             | anyway.
             | 
             | The fact that a repair is expensive is in a feedback loop
             | with this sort of behavior. If consumers wanted to keep
             | phones for five years and have an affordable battery or
             | screen swap during that time, they'd demand it, and they'd
             | get it. There are a lot of Android phone vendors.
             | 
             | That isn't to say that the status quo is ideal, and I do
             | expect it to change as Moore's Law starts to level out,
             | with smartphone design following the same curve. I would
             | even say we're starting to see that happen.
             | 
             | But if consumers thought Samsung was abusive and showed no
             | regard for them, they wouldn't buy phones from Samsung. But
             | they do buy phones from Samsung, so they don't think that.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | If people find "what they can get away with" to be
           | objectionable, what's wrong with avoiding doing business with
           | them?
           | 
           | Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's acceptable.
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | Absolutely. My reaction was to the idea that throngs of
             | current customers who are happy enough with the deal to
             | keep buying "should" not just stop buying but organize a
             | boycott. Feels like a classic "those sheeple think they're
             | happy but they aren't" take.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > Feels like a classic "those sheeple think they're happy
               | but they aren't" take.
               | 
               | It's not that at all. It's "those people could negotiate
               | a better deal if they acted together".
               | 
               | > not just stop buying but organize a boycott.
               | 
               | The goal isn't to not buy, the goal is to get a better
               | deal and then keep buying.
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | futo, the company that keeps trying to hijack open source with
         | their proprietary licence?
        
           | 3np wrote:
           | These?
           | 
           | https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master.
           | ..
           | 
           | Yeah, that's.. Unfortunate. I hope they don't attempt to
           | relicense immich (AGPL), at least..
        
           | CivBase wrote:
           | Didn't they start saying "source first" instead of "open
           | source"? What's wrong with that?
           | 
           | Nothing about their current licenses stand out as
           | unreasonable to me. Even though their licenses aren't
           | technically "open source" - i.e. not an OSI approved license
           | - their license is clearly in the same spirit and I would
           | absolutely refer to it as "open source" in casual discussion.
           | 
           | They did the wrong thing at first, but their intent was
           | obviously not malicious and they corrected it. Why let that
           | undermine the rest of the good things they're doing?
        
       | capitainenemo wrote:
       | At least the samsung phone I bought scores pretty well on
       | repairability in this review
       | https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro_scores_hig...
       | 
       | Although I'd love to know what iFixit thinks, esp since I'm
       | hoping to hang on to it for a few more years at least. Was hoping
       | to find a general database of phones, but it looks like they
       | don't do a ton of reviews. Only 21 smartphones listed here,
       | including both apple and android.
       | https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairabilit...
       | Of which only 3 were samsung.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Click the View Legacy Scores link. They have several older
         | Samsungs (probably 20-25), dating back to the Samsung S 4G in
         | 2011.
         | 
         | https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/legacy-smartphone-score...
        
           | capitainenemo wrote:
           | Well, this phone was released late 2022 so I'd be surprised
           | to find it in a legacy list already. And indeed there was
           | nothing in the legacy list more recent than 2020.
           | 
           | I bought it the instant it was released so I've gotten 2
           | years out of it so far with just a few scratches from
           | constantly forgetting and putting it with my keys in my
           | pocket. I have a 2nd battery for quick swapping, but that
           | also helps with battery longevity. I protected the USB port
           | with one of those magnetic connectors so hopefully that will
           | last a while too.
        
             | bdcravens wrote:
             | In the case of that specific phone, it seems to be a bit
             | more niche (not that I obsess over the phone industry, but
             | this is the first time I've heard of it, and as a frequent
             | phone shopper, I'm not sure that I've seen it offered by
             | any of the US carriers, but again, my perspective is
             | limited). It does seem that given the amount of effort they
             | put into a teardown, they limit their teardowns (which is
             | way more comprehensive than a typical "review") to some
             | sort of mass market threshhold.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | The Xcover is more of an enterprise product. It's not
               | really interesting for consumers because the bang for the
               | buck is low, due to the price being aimed high so that
               | they can offer bigger discount to the enterprises buying
               | 10k of these in one go. They aim these at front line
               | workers, eg warehouses, public service etc.
               | 
               | For consumers they had the galaxy S Active line which
               | sadly has been discontinued..
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | In the sense that most enterprise products are company-
               | issued, the likelihood of self-repair is probably pretty
               | low.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Well funnily enough these phones are quite easy to
               | repair, they even have removable batteries :) That's one
               | really easy thing that often comes up (especially with
               | the amount of work these devices do every day on the
               | manufacturing line and warehouse) that can definitely
               | easily be "repaired" in-house.
        
               | capitainenemo wrote:
               | Well, they clearly report on niche phones that they feel
               | have a decent repairability. For example they call out
               | the Fair Phone (which is awesome, but according to
               | wikipedia they've only sold 400k phones across all
               | models).
               | 
               | It seems if they have limited resources they should focus
               | on the most repairable models of all major phone
               | manufacturers and tip the needle that way.
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | The niche phones I see, as you've mentioned, tend to
               | stand out in some way (open source based, new foldable
               | models, etc), rather than being a variant of a brand
               | they've covered dozens of times.
               | 
               | I'm willing to bet that Samsung has hundreds of different
               | SKUs, across their different categories: rugged
               | enterprise phones, S class, A class, etc.
               | 
               | At my local Microcenter, they literally have 27 different
               | phones across about a dozen model number of Samsung (A05,
               | A15, A25, etc). Most of them are all built on similar
               | manufacturing processes, so I'm guessing that the
               | repairability of a closely related one is comparable.
        
               | capitainenemo wrote:
               | Yeah, the XCover6 is unique on repairability due to its
               | design, thus the good score in the report I linked.
               | Replaceable battery (one of the more common things that
               | needs replacing as a phone ages). But also: "Everything
               | else is relatively easy too, Samsung used standard
               | Phillips screws and didn't go wild with the glue. Also,
               | not only does this phone have a 3.5mm headphone jack, it
               | is a separate module held by a screw. It does take some
               | disassembly to get to it, but it is not soldered to the
               | board. The USB-C charging port is on a separate PCB, the
               | pogo pins (which can also be used for charging) are below
               | that and the speaker assembly."
               | 
               | So, I feel if they'd call out FairPhone (which rightly
               | deserves the 10 out of 10) they could also highlight this
               | effort from Samsung to encourage things like this, one
               | that maybe warrants an... 8? Just guessing :)
               | 
               | 'course, thanks to the EU replaceable batteries will
               | probably be a lot more common, although maybe not as
               | easily swappable as this one. The other things are fairly
               | unique too - perhaps they were aiming for easier repair
               | since it was a business/military phone.
        
       | adamc wrote:
       | Hideous, unreadable number of ads on the desktop.
        
       | ffhhj wrote:
       | Having owned a Z Flip that cracked I can tell you that managers
       | at Samsung use iPhones or any other brand, because they never
       | noticed that all the modal windows are centered in the screen
       | directly on the fold making it difficult to see and click it when
       | you sit the phone at 90deg.
        
       | noboostforyou wrote:
       | Anecdotal only but I've had to buy very obscure Samsung
       | replacement parts twice in recent years and definitely noticed
       | how expensive it was.
       | 
       | One was a proprietary cable for a tv and another was a specific-
       | length ignition wire for a stove top pilot light. Both times I
       | was able to find a no-name brand replacement part on amazon but
       | reviews were mixed and there was no guarantee of fitment. And it
       | wasn't that much of a discount compared to Samsung's direct parts
       | store which was quite pricey. I paid over $60 for that pilot
       | light wire.
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | I have a Samsung fridge that has an integrated water pitcher
         | setup (keeps it full inside the door). It's actually pretty
         | cool. Nice pitcher too.
         | 
         | However, I made the mistake of putting it in the dishwasher on
         | a Sanitize cycle (normal cycle is meant to/should be okay).
         | 
         | The heat deformed the pitcher (just plastic).
         | 
         | I did some various heating myself to make the top sit right
         | again, but it just never did, and it being very slightly off-
         | kilter was enough to not trip the fill mechanism.
         | 
         | So I went to buy a new one.
         | 
         | Holy hell.
         | 
         | One hundred and twenty dollars.
         | 
         | For this:
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-DA97-17395A-Refrigerator-Rese...
         | 
         | And this is not someone on Amazon gouging. Indeed Samsung
         | themselves want $140.
         | 
         | https://samsungpartsusa.com/products/da97-17395a
         | 
         | for a _plastic water pitcher_.
         | 
         | > I paid over $60 for that pilot light wire.
         | 
         | Not Samsung, but I had a double oven whose circuit board died.
         | The manufacturer wanted more than the cost of the oven for a
         | new circuit board (was an older oven). That one thankfully
         | ended up being a fairly common and simple fix (some capacitors
         | and some other things - there was someone on eBay selling
         | repair service - "$59, send me your board, and I'll send it
         | back in three days repaired").
        
           | gknoy wrote:
           | My LG refrigerator had similarly priced replacement parts for
           | the removable shelves in the doors, several of which cracked.
           | It was bonkers. Is this partly because the demand for these
           | specific parts is relatively low?
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | It's entirely because the demand for replacement parts
             | cannibalizes the demand for new refrigerators. If they can
             | sell you a plastic shelf for $100 with a 99% margin, for
             | them that's like selling you half a refrigerator.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | You're not paying for the plastic pellets and energy it takes
           | to melt them for injection molding. You're paying for the
           | shipping and storage and interest on the money it took to
           | make and store for you. It's a very specific shape and it
           | doesn't seem that expensive to me.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >And this is not someone on Amazon gouging. Indeed Samsung
           | themselves want $140.
           | 
           | It's almost understandable if it's a one off part that not
           | many people will buy because it costs money to make extras
           | and keep them stocked, but something like a pitcher, you
           | could imagine that lots of people would like to have multiple
           | of them.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | > And this is not someone on Amazon gouging. Indeed Samsung
           | themselves want $140.
           | 
           | The one from Amazon is probably going to be counterfeit, was
           | manufactured for $1, and doesn't fit quite right.
           | 
           | That being said, the stock one was probably manufactured for
           | 25C/.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | >One was a proprietary cable for a tv
         | 
         | My dad's tv is like that, the weird proprietary cable that
         | connects the external control box to the actual screen, except
         | the cable is literally not for sale and even the connectors
         | aren't available if you wanted to try and make your own. They
         | have to baby the existing one and hope it doesn't completely
         | break.
        
       | oneepic wrote:
       | Offtopic: on mobile I get a really awful ad that puts borders on
       | the whole screen, and cuts off the article's words on the far
       | left and right. I'd say I will never go to this site again, but
       | then again, I may as well never read news on mobile again, right?
       | (As this ad might just pop up on another site anyway) Still, it's
       | a shameful practice.
        
         | shrx wrote:
         | Firefox on android supports installing uBlock Origin.
        
         | doytch wrote:
         | This site turned my phone into a radiator (and knocked off four
         | percent of battery), so it's just stuffed to the gills with
         | this stuff.
        
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