[HN Gopher] Medieval
___________________________________________________________________
Medieval
Author : beefman
Score : 799 points
Date : 2024-08-06 23:57 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
(TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
| edngibson wrote:
| Really like the website design. Unique, but not at a sacrifice of
| usability
| randomcommentz wrote:
| I liked it too, but didn't like that I couldn't zoom out to
| view more, i found that frustrating
| spicybright wrote:
| I can't even think of a good reason not to allow that, it's
| all static images and text.
| codetrotter wrote:
| In Safari on iOS I can zoom in on the page with whatever
| that reverse-pinch gesture is called. I think Apple also
| came to that same conclusion as you guys quite a few years
| ago that allowing the website owner to prevent the user
| from zooming in on pages on the phone was incredibly user-
| hostile and so they stopped honoring the part of the meta
| viewport html5 tag that specifies that the page cannot be
| zoomed in.
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| Try opening it when your browser is full screen at 1440p.
|
| You can't even see the whole device without scrolling.
| ramathornn wrote:
| I can't take this company seriously after all the R1 nonsense. I
| get that no product is perfect in its first version but it sure
| feels malicious how they fooled everyone with what they promised
| vs what they delivered.
| DAlperin wrote:
| Fwiw Teenage Engineering is a design firm who was originally
| contracted by Rabbit to design the physical device. I don't
| think they had anything to do with the functionality.
| ramathornn wrote:
| That's a good point, I guess they didn't have any hand in the
| software...just seems icky to me.
|
| I trusted the product mainly because of their name, it's hard
| for me to understand how they didn't see what the underlying
| product was when they attached their name to it.
| VonGuard wrote:
| Gizmondo was designed by Sir Clive Sinclair. First rule of
| a Producers-like scheme is to have the thing designed by a
| famous designer.
| mlsu wrote:
| Yeah but they can pick their clients. Big miss to be involved
| imho, although maybe it doesn't make a difference to their
| market.
| rigonkulous wrote:
| Teenage Engineering use a type of design that is intended to
| obfuscate the functionality of the device. For example, their
| Pocket Operator series use LCD displays which have very
| little utility to the experience of music-making. The OP1 has
| an OLED display which mostly displays non-sequitur nonsense.
|
| Those of us who despise Teenage Engineering are reacting to a
| design ethos which devalues the users knowledge and
| understanding of what they are doing, over whimsical non-
| sequitur. You're not getting a musical instrument - you're
| getting a device, which despite itself, can nevertheless be
| used to make some kind of music.
|
| That's the beauty of music, not the device. You can make
| music with _anything_.
|
| So the feeling among those of us who also make musical
| instruments is that Teenage Engineering are packaging up an
| inherent feature of music and selling it to people in a fancy
| way - they don't _really_ care about the music-making
| features, which are almost secondary to their effort to
| design aesthetically appealing, moderately functional,
| expensive toys.
|
| And in that light, it makes complete sense that they would
| involve themselves in the Rabbit R1. The impression is that
| Teenage Engineering kind of despise their customers, who they
| think are dumb, and they therefore invest in non-sequitur
| aesthetics in lieu of smart design that pushes the industry
| forward. Teenage Engineering ship exploitation and ridicule -
| they don't make finely crafted instruments for musicians to
| hone their skills. Most great musicians who play with an OP1
| and make music with it, do so despite the devices' many
| roadblocks to creativity.
| Retr0id wrote:
| While Rabbit Inc is a separate entity, they are more deeply
| intertwined than a mere design contract. Rabbit's CEO, Jesse
| Lyu, is on TE's board of directors. TE's CEO, Jesper
| Kouthoofd, is employed by Rabbit as "Chief Design Officer".
|
| https://www.rabbit.tech/newsroom/teenage-engineering-
| jesper-...
| corytheboyd wrote:
| Was hoping it would just be a cute lil $10 or so VST/AU plugin,
| but still love the concept
| colesantiago wrote:
| Is this limited edition?
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| I don't need this. I didn't need this.
|
| I'll get it when we upgrade Spitfire this year.
| classichasclass wrote:
| I don't need it either. Also, take my filthy lucre, you beasts.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| This is so wacky I thought it was like an old April Fool's Day
| joke page by them
| jszymborski wrote:
| That's sorta become Teenage's brand these days. I can't decide
| about how I feel about it but I'm defaulting to digging it.
| cmelbye wrote:
| The world would be missing something if we didn't have
| creative geniuses off in the corner making art for art's
| sake, accessible for the masses to keep at home.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| All of their products are completely pointless and I am
| incredibly happy that they exist.
| Hamuko wrote:
| Yeah, this seems like one of those April Fool's jokes that for
| all intents and purposes seems like a joke but is an actual
| product that you can buy. Kinda like how Gmail with its massive
| 1 GB of storage was announced on the first of April.
| depingus wrote:
| This seems to be the same as the EP-133 K.O. II with a
| difference:
|
| - 128MB memory including 96MB ROM sounds and 32MB user sample
| memory on the Medieval
|
| vs
|
| - 64 MB memory, or 999 sample slots on the K.O. II.
| 22c wrote:
| Yes, is this a slight hardware refresh to the EP-133 with a new
| skin and different factory presets?
|
| The KO-1 had a similar "Street Fighter" edition, which could be
| loaded with the original PO-33 samples.
|
| Are there any reasons not to buy this over the EP-133 from a
| pure capability standpoint? I wish the marketing were a bit
| clearer on that front, seems we need to intuit this by diving
| into the specs and capabilities ourselves.
| cammikebrown wrote:
| There are new features in the software (presumably
| implementable on the original if they choose to) but the new
| one has twice as much memory, with the new samples taking up
| 75% of that.
| inciampati wrote:
| Did they resolve the intense hardware bugs with the EP-133? I
| haven't been following after basically giving up on TE due to
| this (EP-133) being the second time they sold me a lemon.
| fiatpandas wrote:
| It has a new arpeggiator, new punch in and send effects. So,
| different firmware.
| keyle wrote:
| Props to them, this is bat-shit crazy stuff. And they're going
| full blown with it.
|
| I bought a EP-133 KO II when it first came out but quickly sold
| it after a few weeks - it wasn't my jam.
| broguinn wrote:
| I ordered the KO-II for a friend, after reading about it on
| Hacker News. I love Teenage Engineering's playfulness and
| creativity, but was disappointed when the KO-II had quality
| issues with its input nob, making it unusable.
|
| They were quick to issue a refund, but I would have loved to
| see them fix the underlying issue and offer us another unit.
| I'd have the same concerns about this model, since it looks
| like it uses the same base hardware.
| apitman wrote:
| If you've never heard of bardcore it's well worth a google
| jmspring wrote:
| That is both amazing and frightful. I like the creativity that
| we can find these days.
| defrost wrote:
| Speaking of both amazing and frightful:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRIfsFefatg ( _Pumped Up
| Kicks_ , medieval style.)
| zuluonezero wrote:
| Life changed
| bombcar wrote:
| This did to me what literal music videos did to me years
| ago
| kashyapc wrote:
| Thank you, that was absolutely worth it. :-)
|
| I just heard their medieval version of "somebody that I used to
| know" -- https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1aVmjvYTI
|
| The lyrical changes were wonderful.
| defrost wrote:
| It's worth going fully OG,
|
| Hildegard von Blingin' covers Hildegard Von Bingen
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9K9PfjRjxM
|
| I bought the '82 vinyl in '82:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Feather_on_the_Breath_of_God
| squiffy wrote:
| Although related to bardcore, I see this product as more about
| creating dungeon synth and its offshoots:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_synth
|
| which has seen a little more popularity recently, judging by
| the number of views this got:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP9_XmmmIk0
| fnord77 wrote:
| I love the segments in the LED display. That's attention to
| detail. Bet that cost a pretty penny
| sneak wrote:
| You should see the margins on their other products. They can
| well afford to dip into the brand marketing budget to have
| things like this produced. :)
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Weird is good.
| jeremyjh wrote:
| I have no use for it but I am really happy there are people doing
| this.
| b1n wrote:
| Nice 'Holy Mountain' vibes in the promo video.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Mountain_(1973_film)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdXGhsAynGI
| bbor wrote:
| Someone please help this little skeptic: is that video real, or
| Midjourney? The short cuts make me think Midjourney, but then
| they have a shot with their product in it.
| dhritzkiv wrote:
| It's certainly real.
|
| What was it about the video that made you think it's
| generative? That it's surrealistic?
| bbor wrote:
| Well yeah, mostly that it has a ton of actors and setpieces
| (and a horse!) for what AFAICT is a joke product. I mean,
| it's perhaps not a _joke_ , but... surely anyone who
| actually wanted to be a touring musician with this kind of
| music would just load up sounds onto a regular board? Is
| "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use
| professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
|
| And it consists of short, highly composed shots, which is
| how non-professional (read: non-Sora) AI videos are these
| days. They create the individual images then animate them
| into 2-4 second clips with slight, predictable movement.
| d1sxeyes wrote:
| Teenage Engineering are well known for their quirky
| instruments, I don't think this is a joke.
|
| Musicians are a funny bunch, just because there's a
| simple way of doing something doesn't mean that that's
| what they'll do.
| objclxt wrote:
| > Is "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use
| professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
|
| That's not really Teenage Engineering's primary market,
| in the same way Rolex's primary market isn't "people who
| need to tell the time". Both T.E and Rolex products do
| their jobs really well, but the people buying them are
| buying more for the aesthetic than the function.
|
| Teenage Engineering are primarily a design boutique,
| although musicians _do_ use their products their main
| audience are collectors / audiophiles / graphic
| designers going through a mid-life crisis.
| vundercind wrote:
| I think their main market is people who definitely won't
| use the product they can convince to think "I will
| definitely use this product".
|
| (This one came pretty close to getting me)
| SonOfLilit wrote:
| I own an OP-1, I regularly take it on flights then never
| use it...
| gffrd wrote:
| > people who definitely won't use the product they can
| convince to think "I will definitely use this product".
|
| Not unlike the iPad market.
| zamadatix wrote:
| There are two big sides to the iPad market, the "spend
| more than >$1000 for a designer/pro tool" side and the
| "it's just a good <$500 tablet" side. The latter probably
| gets 5x-10x the amount of use per purchase, especially by
| younger audiences.
| derefr wrote:
| > Is "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use
| professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
|
| Genre is contextual. An instrument can "sound like" one
| genre solo / when highlighted, yet contribute an entirely
| different sound when submerged in the mix.
|
| Modern country music uses "disco" instruments but not in
| a way that _sounds like disco_. A guzheng makes pretty
| much the same sound as a banjo, but nobody notices
| because the music the two instruments conventionally get
| used in doesn't have much overlap (in play style, but
| also in terms of what other instruments are used together
| with them.) A fiddle is literally just a violin, but
| they're used so differently that people call them
| different names (mostly because a "trained fiddler" knows
| a very different skill than a "trained violinist.")
|
| Also, there are music genres that just use "everything",
| with musicians constantly looking for a new sound for
| every track they put out. Industrial and electro are both
| like this.
|
| In short, there are plenty of professional musicians --
| especially live keyboardists -- that already have a
| setup, but still hunt for new instruments/effects to
| achieve a new "sound". (Normally that's just through VST
| plugins, sure, but there's also a thriving market for
| physical _old analog_ synths that haven't been digitally
| replicated yet -- and this product is clearly intended to
| appeal to people used to buying in that market.)
| Fomite wrote:
| I think you underestimate the number of artsy people you
| can summon with "We're gonna do a weird little video..."
| spencerflem wrote:
| The video is 11 years old fwiw
| Nition wrote:
| I assume they're asking about the video from the Teenage
| Engineering link (which is not AI, but is at least new
| content).
| bbor wrote:
| Which video is 11 years old...? The release video for this
| project that seems to be copyrighted 2024? This is the most
| baffling response I could've received, so I'm quite
| curious!
| Nition wrote:
| They thought you were referring to the Holy Mountain
| movie clip from YouTube that the parent comment shared.
|
| When you said "that video", it was ambiguous whether
| "that" referred to the promo video or the one the comment
| shared. It seemed fairly clear to me that you'd be asking
| an AI question about the 2024 promo video and not the one
| from 1973, but it evidently wasn't clear enough as
| multiple people have assumed the latter.
|
| Apparently I'm the official translator for both sides of
| this conversation.
| defrost wrote:
| Welcome to Alejandro Jodorowsky, he's like AI off the chain
| with no guard rails but it's 1974 and the home PC doesn't yet
| exist.
| mr_briggs wrote:
| Watching The Holy Mountain, I felt like my life had been
| divided in 2 - that which came before watching it, and that
| which came after. Sure is an experience, and I certainly can't
| unsee a lot of it.
| bembo wrote:
| Watched it with some friends on shrooms for the first time.
| Incredible. All the movies we watched after it that night
| felt bland and uninteresting.
| darepublic wrote:
| also the wicker man:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBS5qeqHDGI
| fredoliveira wrote:
| Or Midsommar, which is quite similar.
| jbaiter wrote:
| The horse in the circle of fire is also a quote from Phillipe
| Garrel's "La Cicatrice Interieure", a rather obscure surrealist
| film from the 70s (starring and scored by Nico/Christa
| Paffgen!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYiADaKJ3A
| meiuqer wrote:
| Good shout, I was thinking of The color of Pomegranates:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Color_of_Pomegranates
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPtxS1c-fGA
| sssilver wrote:
| The last thing I was expecting during my daily Hacker News
| read was bumping into a Parajanov reference. Incredible.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| It's the internet equivalent of Forrest Gump's box of
| chocolates.
| xnx wrote:
| Whoa. I didn't realize the whole movie was on YouTube!
| Randomly skipped to https://youtu.be/aPtxS1c-fGA?t=1187 which
| contains a tossed silver ball which Teenage Engineering seem
| to be quoting almost verbatim in their video.
| zeristor wrote:
| Mediaeval Cosplay?
| mdumic wrote:
| Also, Dreams (Kurosawa) - Fox Wedding scene
| stitched2gethr wrote:
| I'm a fan of Teenage Engineering. I think they make some really
| cool products but they have a few that really makes me wonder,
| who is this for?
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Nobody, that's the best part.
| whatshisface wrote:
| I think their target audience are well-heeled Apple customers
| who like to imagine that they are musicians. Hacker culture
| doesn't have a "collector of expensive African originals" role,
| so "amateur who collects equipment far out of proportion to the
| time they invest in using any of it" has formed to collect the
| same psychological energy. It's about the combination of the
| creator fantasy on the surface backed up by the collector's
| motives beneath.
|
| It is a very common way to present as a consumer in hobby
| markets, but it has elaborated itself to a great degree in this
| case because hobbyist musicians aren't surrounded by retired
| session artists the way, for example, woodworkers are
| surrounded by retired tradesmen.
| jahewson wrote:
| Seems a bit harsh. There's surely more dimensions to their
| market than this?
| sandspar wrote:
| He has developed a theory and would like to share it for
| kudos.
| whatshisface wrote:
| I glossed over the "Apple" dimension of elevating plastic
| stuff to luxury goods by being amazingly careful about
| injection molding marks etc, but I don't know a lot about
| it. I think the daring fireball guy is the recognized
| expert on the consumer experience side of it.
| 8note wrote:
| The apple dimension would include selling injection
| molding marks as a luxury feature, if that's what their
| products have
| yungporko wrote:
| there genuinely isn't, it's all overpriced shit.
| jdgoesmarching wrote:
| I don't think they make cranes tall enough to get you off
| that high horse. This thing is cheaper than my crappy middle
| school beginner trumpet was and professional musicians don't
| have a monopoly on making or experimenting with music.
| whatshisface wrote:
| I know it might come across as spoiling the fun, but I
| think the real story at least should appear somewhere in
| the threads.
| kstrauser wrote:
| You're not totally wrong, just mostly. I use Apple stuff. I
| bought an EP-133 at launch. That part was true.
|
| I also spent thousands of hours with a MIDI setup on my Amiga
| when I was in high school, teaching myself how to program the
| little FM synth my parents bought me for Christmas, and
| learning the theory of what makes a drum pattern sound good.
|
| I don't have thousands of hours available anymore. I still
| want to dabble sometimes though. Those are skills I worked
| very hard to learn, I enjoy exercising them, and I don't want
| them to atrophy. That specific Teenage Engineering device has
| all the things I want to play with in a single portable box
| that also manages to be dirt cheap for what all it does.
|
| Some people drive BMWs because they want to be seen driving
| them. Others drive them because -- get this -- turns out
| they're nice cars to drive. At $300, my EP-133 isn't exactly
| the BMW of musical instruments. It still does a hell of a job
| of scratching my musical itch. I couldn't care less if anyone
| else ever sees me playing with it. I hope they never do. I
| got it for me, to enjoy, to make (bad) music with so I can
| get songs out of my head and into my ears. Sorry-not-sorry if
| that's not "real musician" enough for some. I don't care. I'm
| still having fun.
| rigonkulous wrote:
| Yes, fun is the key value. It is fun to play with a music
| toy, with a near-useless interface, and still get
| 'something' out of it. That is a key factor in their design
| principles - make some expensive whimsical toy that GAS-
| afflicted punters will invest in.
|
| Meanwhile, you can spend the money on even more powerful
| devices and avoid the frustrating UI experience for which
| Teenage Engineering are infamous.
|
| Sure, you can make music with a toy - thats the beauty of
| music, not the toy.
| uncivilized wrote:
| Your comparison of TE to BMW is apt. As is OP's comparison
| to Apple.
|
| For those of us who have raced cars on a track, we see the
| BMW E36 M3 (90s) as the last proper race worthy vehicle.
| People who drive BMWs now just want a "nice car to drive"
| and spirited drivers don't want anything to do with them.
|
| Likewise, people who use TE instruments want to feel like
| they are making music, even though they are not using the
| hardware or software conducive to do so.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I agree with you that BMW and TE aren't the gear that
| hardcore professionals would reach for, but enthusiasts
| who enjoy those respective activities can get a lot of
| enjoyment out of.
|
| Both make stuff for people who enjoy nice things, no
| pretention required.
| speedgoose wrote:
| I don't know, I got an OP-1 to play with many years ago and I
| seldomly recognise presets or effects when listening to music
| from talented and successful musicians. Which makes me
| realise that I have some skills issues when I compare with
| the noise I make.
|
| So they do sell to "real" musicians too.
| tayistay wrote:
| Blasphemy! Thou shalt not present such claims without the
| proper scrolls and ledgers of sales to substantiate. Ist thou
| not acquainted with the more-expensive instruments of musical
| synthesis available?
| danpalmer wrote:
| Me too, which is why the whole Rabbit R1 debacle was so
| surprising, not just that they did the design for it, but that
| some of their leadership was so deeply involved in it.
| iamsaitam wrote:
| It's not surprising when you think that design is all that
| matters to TE. Functionality is a byproduct not the end goal.
| danpalmer wrote:
| I think that's a little unfair as an assessment of their
| design. Good design is generally considered to include
| functionality, and from what I've seen of their products
| they do generally have good functionality. Sometimes that
| might be a little at the cost of the visual design (the
| OP-1 doesn't look like the most accessible tool), but on
| the whole I think they make products that are good overall.
| mmazing wrote:
| I love their design aesthetic. I wish that I had even the most
| mild musical talent so I could justify buying some of their
| products.
|
| Alas, I do not. :(
| rigonkulous wrote:
| I am not a fan of Teenage Engineering (Disclaimer: I make audio
| products too).
|
| The reason is, they set a standard for useless gimmicks which
| are far, far too expensive, designed to appeal to style over
| substance.
|
| The OP1 is one of the most over-rated 'instruments' out there.
| It has a fancy, expensive OLED, a fancy, expensive casing, and
| useless gimmicks. The OLED never really shows you anything
| useful to the act of music-making. This is true of their Pocket
| Operators as well - its nearly all stylistic whimsy over
| functionality.
|
| Save yourself the hassle and frustration of using a Teenage
| Engineering product and either buy the parts and make yourself
| an LMN3[0], or invest in devices that don't take the piss out
| of the user, such as the 1010Music Bluebox or Synthstrom
| Deluge.
|
| The musical-instrument industry is rife with people who want to
| rip off the punters, who they _know_ for a fact are easily
| afflicted with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), resulting in
| customers across the globe who end up stashing their expensive,
| sexy-looking (but functionally retarded) toys in the drawer
| after a period of glib usage.
|
| [0] - https://github.com/FundamentalFrequency
|
| [1] - https://1010music.com/
|
| [2] - https://synthstrom.com/
| inciampati wrote:
| I am over TE. Just today I was looking at the OP-1 that's had
| a dead key since it was about a year old and been completely
| non bootable since a year or so after that. With the EP-133 I
| made the mistake of believing TE would do a better job of the
| practical design of their instruments. But it broke with
| interface problems reported by thousands of people. TE wasn't
| very supportive of my repair request and I don't have time to
| chase them for a replacement of something fundamentally
| broken. I don't want more objects that won't last.
| rigonkulous wrote:
| Yes, this is a common refrain I have heard from musicians
| and hobbyists lured in by the aesthetics, only to be
| frustrated with the actual functionality after a week or
| two.
|
| Fortunately, there are other manufacturers who "get it" and
| make instruments, not toys.
| iamsaitam wrote:
| The problem of TE and self admitted by their CEO (in Figma's
| Config talk) is that they won't listen to users feedback.
| They are really good in design and terrible in compromising.
| They make toys, which can be used as musical instruments
| (like anything else that makes sound), the reason I call them
| toys is because they have the most glaring blind spots which
| prevent them to just be called "music instruments". Even
| their flagship OP-1 suffers from this and it has a ridiculous
| price tag. Till they get down from their high horse and start
| implementing basic functionality for musicians, these
| machines will never reach their potential.
| Marazan wrote:
| The Pocket Operators are the best Price-to-ActuallyFunctional
| thing that TE produce. They are very immediate and fun to
| use. Everything else they do is extreme bait.
| tayistay wrote:
| > The OLED never really shows you anything useful to the act
| of music-making.
|
| Thou art prone to hyperbole! Said instrument of synthesis
| ("Operator-1") has a step sequencer, mixer, ADSR envelopes,
| recorder, and other useful indications for the bard. One
| ponders how thou hast not consulted the scrolls [1].
|
| [1] https://teenage.engineering/_img/54b7f9bf8681400300255cab
| _or...
| rigonkulous wrote:
| I owned an OP1 from the day it was released until 6 days
| after I discovered it rotting in a drawer, unused, in a
| room full of far better examples of synthesizer interface.
| I tried really hard to accept Teenage Engineering's
| priority of non-sequitur over functionality.
|
| Sure, the OLED occasionally shows you a few things. But its
| completely useless compared to, say, the utility eked out
| of the display of the Deluge, or Bluebox. By comparison to
| either of these devices, the OP1 is unacceptably paltry for
| the price.
|
| And then, there are the Pocket Operators. Don't get me
| started on just how useless that very expensive bespoke LCD
| print is to the musician...
| serf wrote:
| I like the interesting segment display.
|
| I absolutely hate the rounded rectangular buttons within the hard
| square cut-outs.
|
| i'm not the market, so maybe I just don't know what i'm judging.
| BHSPitMonkey wrote:
| It's a reskin of the EP-133, so likely reusing most of the
| manufacturing tooling as-is.
| havaloc wrote:
| B&H has a demo of this on YouTube:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaIx0KMOg5I
| runiq wrote:
| They can inject that beat directly into my veins.
| reciprocity wrote:
| I'm very sure you'd quickly get tired of that demo track.
| rcarmo wrote:
| This is the only video they need to market it. The Monty Python
| vibe at the beginning is hilarious, and the walkthrough
| delightful.
| import wrote:
| One of the best gear demo I watched in last few years
| fiatpandas wrote:
| Don't miss the lovingly crafted manual:
| https://teenage.engineering/guides/ep-1320
|
| Looks great blown up on a 4K monitor due to extensive use of SVG.
| klibertp wrote:
| It, unfortunately, looks immune to zoom in a browser, for some
| reason.
| rcarmo wrote:
| I can zoom it just fine on Safari.
| komali2 wrote:
| Which is really obnoxious because I can barely read the text
| underneath it.
| WatchDog wrote:
| Has anyone began dabbling in music production, just to play with
| some of teenage engineering's gadgets?
|
| I'm pretty sure if I bought one, it would just sit in my
| cupboard, but I'm looking for an excuse to buy one, has anyone
| here gotten more use out of one of their gadgets than they
| expected they would?
| whatshisface wrote:
| You could try LMMS and if you like it you could get FL Studio.
| FireInsight wrote:
| But if you don't like it, you might like something else. I'm
| a big-time ableton user and don't like LMMS.
| diggan wrote:
| Doing music with hardware outside of the computer is way
| different than making music on the computer. I probably tried
| for 10 years to get into music making via the computer, but
| never really got into the flow of it. A week after purchasing
| my first hardware some years ago (the first Novation
| Circuit), I had already starting putting together full tracks
| and it was a lot more engaging.
|
| So even if you try out LMMS/FL Studio/Ableton/making-music-
| on-a-computer and don't like it, doesn't mean you don't like
| making music at all, maybe it's just the wrong workflow for
| you.
| w-ll wrote:
| We the target market. Income, gadgets, aspirations.
| ehsankia wrote:
| I would recommend starting with the Pocket Operators:
|
| https://teenage.engineering/products/po
|
| Good to get your feet wet without breaking your wallet.
| acomjean wrote:
| I have a couple pocket operators. They're pretty fun. I have
| the robot(28), which has some interesting scales and "rhythm"
| which is drum machine.
|
| Unlike the more expensive products these are harder to work
| into a computer based work flow. But they are fun.
|
| They have one that has "office sound" samples, which is
| wierd.
|
| This midieval device looks a bit like a giant more functional
| pocket operator.
| yungporko wrote:
| unless you're a really big fan of TE there really isn't ever a
| reason to buy anything they make other than maybe the pocket
| operators. it's all overpriced shit which doesn't make sense to
| buy when compared with competing products. for example this
| thing makes zero sense when the sp404mk2 exists.
| samrolken wrote:
| I'm not a fan per se of TE, but I did get the OP-Z as a
| continuation of playing with the POs.
|
| I still like it but I'm already trying to find something to
| eventually replace it with. But is there really something out
| there with similar size, features, and price as the OP-Z? I
| would like to find something.
| yungporko wrote:
| i'd definitely prefer to buy an mc-101 over an OP-Z
| personally if you want something in the same sort of price
| range. if you can spend a bit more, i'd look into the
| dirtywave m8 if the workflow appeals to you. i have one and
| it's my favourite piece of audio hardware that i own.
|
| of course virtually any computer with a DAW is the real
| best answer in terms of features and price, but i
| understand the urge to want to be away from a computer
| while creating.
| elaus wrote:
| A Pocket Operator was my entry drug to hardware music making.
| Having only dabbled with DAWs which never felt quite right
| (still sitting in front of a computer, having nearly infinite
| choices between plugins and sounds).
|
| After playing with the PO-33 for a few weeks I quickly reached
| its limits and bought a groove box (not from TE). Still have
| the PO-33 lying around, ready to be played by me or guests that
| find it intriguing.
| diggan wrote:
| Maybe start with something cheaper to evaluate if it's
| something you want to do long-term, and if it fits, start
| looking at the TE stuff, you'll know better what you want then
| too.
|
| Good entrypoint is the Novation Circuit family of devices.
| Circuit Rhythm is mainly around sampling and a drum machine,
| Circuit Tracks a all-in-one groovebox. Both of them are a lot
| of fun :)
|
| Eventually you'll probably be better served by some Elektron
| device, still high price point but UX is a lot
| better/discoverable + lots of features in every single box.
| disconcision wrote:
| the novatron devices appear to be more expensive than the
| linked TE one?
| SonOfLilit wrote:
| The linked TE device is basically a toy and useless on its
| own, the useful TE device is the OP-1 which is much more
| expensive.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| How the heck did they get 7 segment LEDs (probably more than 7)
| in that style? And where can I buy some?
| po wrote:
| 10 segment LEDs actually... the KO-II that this seems to be
| based on has similar ones but they're a little less curvy:
| https://teenage.engineering/products/ep-133
| leptons wrote:
| Doubt those are individual "7 segment LEDs", more likely it's
| just a light-pipe with a specialized shape, and white LEDs
| beneath. There's another very similar device on their website
| with slightly differently shaped "7 segment LEDs".
| gorgoiler wrote:
| It's fascinating trying to play any kind of tune on the pads of
| this device when in "keys" mode. I have the sibling model and
| find it almost impossible to produce anything that sounds
| "normal". I don't really mind -- it's hardly _meant_ to be a
| piano after all -- and it certainly makes for an interesting
| phenomenon. It's also one I think the designers nod to: the pads
| can be retuned to different scales suggesting a complete break
| from any kind of equal temperament octaves.
|
| While I haven't had the chance to ride one, I imagine it is the
| same feeling as riding a joke bike where the headset is geared to
| invert the sense of the handlebars (left is right, right is left)
| or using a pair of circlip pliers where squeezing the handles
| opens the jaws rather than closing them.
|
| Alas, Teenage Engineering really set themselves a high bar with
| the OP-1 and I still don't think they've ever come close to it.
| The OP-Z just didn't compete without a screen, the pocket
| operators (and the K.O. II and Medieval, which have the same
| interface) have a much less intuitive design language, their IKEA
| lights are controlled by colour coded, identically shaped
| controls _on the back_ , etc.
|
| They are all lovely products at good price points that do their
| jobs delightfully but when they came from the same studio as the
| OP-1 it is like comparing a Pininfarina Peugeot 205 with a
| Pininfarina Ferrari 250.
| srik wrote:
| I had their OP-1 for a long while till I had to part with it
| for some emergency cash. It was a truly delightful thing to
| play with and lost neither charm nor monetary value even years
| later.
| pjs_ wrote:
| How can you hate on this. These guys are slaying so hard
| maxglute wrote:
| Incredible, but I can't believe this came out before their TWS.
|
| https://www.yankodesign.com/2022/07/27/teenage-engineering-b...
| sincerely wrote:
| FYI those are never going to come out, it's just a render a
| designer made. From the link:
|
| >This is a fan-made concept and isn't affiliated with Teenage
| Engineering
| maxglute wrote:
| [face slap emoji] thank you, you saved me from refreshing
| their site every couple months.
| boguscoder wrote:
| Website design made me click the buttons for good several seconds
| until I realized this a photo of a real deal, not a web replica
| of the instrument. Nicely done, wonder if web trial would be
| possible and attract more "I probably want this" fans/consumers
| diiaann wrote:
| User research IFYKYK
| kromokromo wrote:
| You can tell Teenage Engineering is a fun place to work.
| michael_michael wrote:
| Taking retro to its logical conclusion.
| rkachowski wrote:
| elements of the past and future combining to make something not
| quite as good as either
| firewolf34 wrote:
| Medieval, more like MIDIeval, am I right?
| ctm92 wrote:
| Missed opportunity
| moffkalast wrote:
| It's definitely something that plays Bardcore at least.
| camillomiller wrote:
| sounds like a function! MIDIeval();
| Separo wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that's the joke.
| bickett wrote:
| Seems cool, I'd buy it and put it on my book shelf
| savydv wrote:
| Everything on the teenage engineering website, every product,
| everything is too creative. Loved it!
| kantbtrue wrote:
| Same! loved the design and minimalism of the product.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Had EP-133 KO II. Very frustrating. First time, I had an
| inspiration for a beat so I grabbed it and after an hour of
| learning curve I realized basically anything I wanted to do I
| couldn't. Limited time signatures didn't let me record the beat I
| wanted in the first place. Then it turned out only one fx can be
| used at a time (want delay _and_ reverb? nope. want delay on the
| synth and reverb on the beat? nope again), you cannot actually
| save projects, cannot tune notes etc.
|
| Even for using it just as a fancy overpriced MIDI input,
| velocities from pads were way too unpredictable compared to a
| cheap korg nanosomething.
| fermigier wrote:
| Why "1320" ?
|
| Could it be because, according to
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1320 "In France, a large group of
| common people band together in Normandy on Easter Sunday to begin
| a crusade, after a _teenage_ shepherd says he was visited by the
| Holy Spirit " (my emphasis).
| diggan wrote:
| The original is EP-133, so not that far away.
|
| Regarding the year dating, more likely to be a reference to
| just the general medieval theme. Only event in the year (in
| Sweden) I could find that is notable is the execution of Magnus
| Birgersson (Heir apparent). Not sure why'd they reference that
| though, so I'm guessing it's just a number that is "close" to
| 133 + in the medieval times.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| without knowing much about the details of how this works; is it
| possibly more in line with another Pocket Operator? PO-32
| possibly?
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Ooohhh they even medieval-ized the numerals in the segment
| display. I don't need this at all, but I must have it...
|
| Edit: to add something unrelated, until today I never knew how
| badly I needed hurdy gurdy electronic music in my life.
| Almondsetat wrote:
| Looks incredibly kitsch, they should stick with their futuristic
| designs.
| daotoad wrote:
| It's the second coming of Enigma.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCMXC_a.D.
| totetsu wrote:
| Oh wow .. did they get Pil and Galia Kollectiv to do that
| marketing video?
|
| https://www.kollectiv.co.uk/TheImmigrants/index.html
| zeristor wrote:
| An ornate piece by B&H:
|
| "Tales of the EP-1320: Medieval (teenage engineering)"
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=BaIx0KMOg5I
| rcarmo wrote:
| Bonus points for the Monty Python and the Holy Grail spoof.
| zeristor wrote:
| He mentioned seeing Jersey across the water, I guess that
| places him on Guernsey:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism_in_the_Channel_Islan...
| echelon wrote:
| I had no idea the B&H folks were this cool. I've ordered
| mundane stuff like C-stands and apple boxes from them. They
| looked like a dated 2000's era storefront.
| fnfjfk wrote:
| So. Here's the thing about B&H:
| https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ofccp/ofccp20170814
| hiatus wrote:
| That's 7 years old at this point.
| groby_b wrote:
| If you thought B&H is cool, you haven't met Sweetwater yet ;)
|
| (B&H is great for photo/video, but for music, they're not it,
| IMHO)
| Symbiote wrote:
| Shouldn't the Latin be "instrumentum electronicum"?
|
| "instrumentalis" and "electronicum" are both adjectives.
|
| (But it's 25 years since I had to read Latin at school.)
| oersted wrote:
| The whole thing is covered in mock latin
| nxobject wrote:
| Don't forget the cocoa-scented pads. Most important feature! (I'm
| not kidding, it's tucked away in the middle of the feature list.)
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| someday i'll be able to afford a TE product. someday...
|
| if i can afford an OP-1 without flinching i know that i've made
| it.
| csmpltn wrote:
| This is unnecessary consumerism...
| cnity wrote:
| There's sort of two ways to look at the Teenage Engineering
| products. The first is as a tool to produce music, and the
| second is as a kind of interactive sculpture. The design and
| production of these things is so good they are almost like art
| themselves. Are they useful? Not really, you could achieve the
| same thing with a VST -- hardware isn't required for this --
| but to think in this way is to miss the point.
|
| Are sculptures, picture frames, decorative vases and ornamental
| unused candles unnecessary?
| lomase wrote:
| You are comparing dessign with art.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| You are speaking as if these are well-defined and mutually
| exclusive categories.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Where do you draw the distinction between the two? Where do
| you fit things like pop art into this continuum, or objets
| d'art?
| criddell wrote:
| And you are building a false dichotomy.
| csmpltn wrote:
| This is a digital hardware synth that makes sword-clinking
| sounds. It goes for 300 USD.
|
| This is maybe half a step above a fart cushion. There's no
| need to buy this whatsoever...
| fergie wrote:
| If I was rich, I would buy all the Teenage Engineering things.
| lewisflude wrote:
| I know many musicians who love using Teenage Engineerings
| products for making music, performing live etc.
|
| However, I do think there is a case to be made for falling into
| the trap of being more interested in the gear than the thing
| you're meant to do with the gear.
|
| At the very least, Teenage Engineering hardware is generally very
| well designed, high quality and built to last. At least this
| product has some creative spirit behind it. I'm in love with the
| merge of Medieval and Modern Electronic here!
|
| For an example of excessive consumerism, look no further than the
| Eurorack[1] space. They don't call it Eurocrack for nothing!
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurorack
| brtkdotse wrote:
| > However, I do think there is a case to be made for falling
| into the trap of being more interested in the gear than the
| thing you're meant to do with the gear.
|
| Is that such a bad thing? It's supposed to be a hobby, if
| geeking out on gear relaxes you you shouldn't have to feel bad
| for not being productive with it.
| fellerts wrote:
| Not at all! I'm reminded of this blog post:
| https://brooker.co.za/blog/2023/04/20/hobbies.html
| lewisflude wrote:
| Many of my hobbies (mechanical keyboards, flashlights, guitar
| pedals) have been addictive and going as incredibly deep as I
| have has made me appreciate each item to a new degree.
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| I am a shitty bedroom guitarist that has pro-level gear that
| I get endless hours of enjoyment from buying/selling and
| "knob turning." I probably spend 50% of my guitar hobby time
| on non-playing activities and it all brings me much joy.
|
| The fact that there are tons of consumers like me makes this
| gear more affordable for everyone, including low level
| artists.
| brtkdotse wrote:
| > endless hours of enjoyment from buying/selling
|
| I get a bunch of satisfaction purchasing used high end
| gear, owning it for a few months and then selling it for
| more or less what I bought it for. I usually get some nice
| social interaction with the seller/buyer as a bonus.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurorack#/media/File%3AKeith...
|
| How the hell do you replicate your sounds between performances,
| recordings, etc.
|
| This must be the musical equivalent of people sending eachother
| zip files with source code instead of using git, lol.
|
| EDIT: don't get me wrong, not dissing the approach! It looks
| glorious and I wish I could play with one once..!
| sixeyes wrote:
| Many performers use a semi-permanent patch. You effectively
| build a synthesizer with exactly the affordances you want,
| and carry the thing to the gig patched up. (Those setups tend
| to focus a lot of cable management too, lol, so that you can
| actually reach the controls)
|
| Or, some do improvised live patching, in which the goal is
| NOT to replicate sounds.
| throwaway030 wrote:
| I'd say most performances on these are accompanied by a DAW.
| Then you just record it and re-use sounds between
| performances. For some instruments/tracks you probably want
| the freedom to play it live and accept that it sounds
| different between performances. In fact that's the whole
| appeal of it in my opinion.
| arnorhs wrote:
| You don't (mostly, except by ear) and that's part of the
| allure of it.
| thih9 wrote:
| That's up to you how you do it.
|
| You can sample certain sounds and perform with that instead.
|
| You can patch it once and never touch again.
|
| You can learn how to patch it exactly the same, even with
| 100s of cables.
|
| You can keep parts of the patch the same. Some modules can
| help, saving their internal state or communicating with other
| modules on their own.
|
| Etc.
| lewisflude wrote:
| I like to take photos and sometimes write things down! In a
| sense you're assembling a sound sculpture. But once you've
| found a great sound and lost it, sometimes you end up finding
| something very similar but not quite 100%! You see this a lot
| with live performances from any electronic musician to be
| honest.
|
| Still, most of the time you find something incredible and
| it's gone as quickly as it appeared!
| kowbell wrote:
| > In a sense you're assembling a sound sculpture.
|
| Or, in the case of the Medieval, a sound scripture ;)
| ygra wrote:
| There was recently a post and discussion on this very topic
| here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40954679
|
| Seems complicated, indeed.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| As people also pointed out in that thread, some classical
| instruments like church organs have exactly the same
| problem.
|
| Look at this one for instance: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w
| iki/Organ_console#/media/File%3A... It has 522 draw knobs
| and 796 total controls for the musician to use. How do you
| play something on this organ to sound exactly like another
| organ?
| thih9 wrote:
| Video (audio) demo; these are different and simpler
| consoles, but this still gives an overview of the issue:
|
| - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLWLM_RbNs
|
| - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvfawKQVw04
|
| - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkmn4AO85L4
| maccard wrote:
| Two choices - either you record this and work with the
| recordings, or you accept that no two performances will ever
| be the same and make it part of the appeal.
| maccard wrote:
| > However, I do think there is a case to be made for falling
| into the trap of being more interested in the gear than the
| thing you're meant to do with the gear.
|
| Have you ever met a guitarist[0], or a golfer? I play guitar,
| and as a teenager I spent _years_ playing a cheap encore guitar
| plugged into a no-name 15w amp imaginable with a zoom 505 [1].
| I practiced for hours upon and hours and sounded awful. Now as
| an adult, I get to spend some money on the hobby and sound like
| what I thought I sounded like aged 15!
|
| [0] - https://www.guitarworld.com/features/gear-acquisition-
| syndro... [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGKrBrCw-aQ
| (not me, but representative)
| lewisflude wrote:
| It also reminds me of how a lot of the most coveted guitars,
| pedals, amps weren't selected by the guitarists who made
| iconic because they had some sort of secret sauce in them,
| but literally because they were the cheapest/most convenient
| thing available at the time.
|
| Also, I love the sound of a good crunchy 15w practise amp. I
| think one day those old zoom pedals and the Line 6 bean will
| be highly coveted!
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| Old Zoom pedals are currently coveted as a good, cheap way
| to shoegaze...
| whstl wrote:
| It was like that with Jazzmasters and Big Muffs. And even
| Les Pauls in the 60s and 80s. They were just cheap and
| widely available used and out of fashion, but then someone
| started using it again and the prices just exploded.
| camillomiller wrote:
| I think this can be generalized to any hobby. When you sorta
| know you can't really aspire to the art for your own normal
| limitations, expanding gear knowledge becomes part of the
| enjoyment, as a sort of surrogate. Nothing wrong with that,
| though, as it really keeps the economy of some niche gear
| producers going for the benefit of everyone! :D
| hnlmorg wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that was the GPs point. He just exampled
| two specific hobbies to illustrate his point.
| maccard wrote:
| That's exactly my point, I just used my own two hobbies as
| an example.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I played for years, on a cheap, short-scale, Univox bass, and
| getting a used Rick[0] _(don't judge the hair. It was in
| style, back then)_ made a _huge_ difference.
|
| I no longer play, but did get get pretty good. In that case,
| the tool made the difference (and a buttload of daily
| practice. I felt I needed to _earn_ the right to play that
| thing).
|
| But I think everyone knows some rich bastard, that has a
| handmade bespoke axe, and is absolutely _terrible_.
|
| [0] https://cmarshall.com/MulletMan.jpg _(I still have that
| guitar, and the neck is still true.)_
| whstl wrote:
| I agree 100%. Getting a Gibson was also a game changer for
| me. Today there is cheaper stuff that is also good quality
| (but you gotta dig), but back in the day you needed the
| kind of gear used by pro musicians to actually go the extra
| mile.
|
| And it's a good observation about bespoke guitars: I feel
| like the problem is people trying to go beyond that, with
| the illusion that "even more expensive" will be even
| better. Then they start buying things that are hella
| expensive but don't give much more (due to diminishing
| returns, or sometimes they actually suck, like bad handmade
| instruments), or doing things like collecting 20, 30, 40
| overdrive pedals just to find the "perfect one".
| maccard wrote:
| > Today there is cheaper stuff that is also good quality
| (but you gotta dig)
|
| I think I disagree here - You don't have to dig for cheap
| and quality anymore. An entry level squier from the last
| 15 years is sufficient quality for a beginner IMO, and
| one step up (classic vibe) is firmly into the "instrument
| for life" territory these days. You only need to upgrade
| for preference/feel.
|
| I have the luxury of regularly getting to play a Gibon SG
| from the 70's which has been well maintained. Don't get
| me wrong, it's a beautiful instrument in it's own way,
| but my 2007 MiM strat is a _far_ superior instrument.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| To me the biggest change has been to amplifiers. Mid
| range practice amps now sound passible. Digital modelling
| is pretty good, and helps keep the volume down. That
| wasn't true before, most practice amps made guitars sound
| horrible. I always recommend people spend more on the amp
| than the guitar. I have a motley collection of cheap
| guitars and they all sound preety good into my Fender
| Twin... my Classic Vibe strat (as another commenter said)
| sounds perfect, as does my homemade Tele with homemade
| pickups.
| maccard wrote:
| Digital Modelling is a game changer. I've got a Helix
| Stomp XL, and it's replaced every pedal and amp in my
| house for guitar & bass, _and_ it's smaller than a
| pedalboard.
|
| Even the Pod Go (which I had before this) is completely
| usable up to a level where you can absolutely afford to
| replace it with a helix.
| whstl wrote:
| I have an HX Stomp as well, but I'm doing most of my
| practice lately with a Tonex One, which I got for EUR150
| brand new, and sounds amazing. It's incredible how far we
| come.
| whstl wrote:
| Yes, I agree with that. You don't have to look too far.
|
| By "dig" I mean you can't go to a store and get a random
| $100 instrument, you gotta figure out that Squier is
| good.
| knuckleheads wrote:
| Hair looks great!
| TheFragenTaken wrote:
| GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) is very real, and talked about
| a lot in the music industry. There are books, and papers
| studying this.
| AstroJetson wrote:
| Good thing that there is nothing like that in other hobbies
| like Woodworking, Ham Radio, etc.
| zeristor wrote:
| Astronomical telescopes, and photography are further
| examples
| lynx23 wrote:
| What you describe is called GAS, Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
|
| Besides, Eurorack is even more dangerous when it comes to GAS.
| pgt wrote:
| "Regular people use their speakers to listen to your music.
| Audiophiles use your music to listen to their speakers." --
| Alan Parsons
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| I've never heard that before. Hilarious and brilliant!
| Bluestein wrote:
| Seconded. Great quote.-
| bmitc wrote:
| People in general are pretty good at finding ways to feel
| superior to someone else, and that includes both audiophiles
| and musicians in this case.
| donaldihunter wrote:
| I don't think that was said by Alan Parsons. It was by a
| slashdotter in response to an Alan Parsons interview:
|
| https://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2663265&c.
| ..
| yungporko wrote:
| > However, I do think there is a case to be made for falling
| into the trap of being more interested in the gear than the
| thing you're meant to do with the gear.
|
| that is literally the intention behind all modern music
| hardware (eurorack especially) i think. i've been a producer
| for nearly 20 years and i've still never seen anybody make
| genuinely good music with any of these things. not even once.
|
| these 30-40 year old "enthusiast" types getting 17 views on
| their 28 minute "generative ambient jam #236" videos are
| basically an unlimited cash cow.
| Wurdan wrote:
| I'm a 30-40 year old with absolutely no interest in making
| music, but I want every single thing which crosses my news
| feed from Teenage Engineering. So yeah, that checks out.
| dartos wrote:
| People make some good tracks with the OP-1.
|
| I think dipplo (a big edm artist) used the OP-1 in his live
| sets for a while.
| geethree wrote:
| Hmm... "good" is relative. Lots of stuff out there
|
| Ciani has been a pioneer in this space since the 70'e
| https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Ciani
|
| Check out the boiler room set of
| https://caterinabarbieri.com/
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25FTlO42VY
|
| Vogelsinger has pieces all over YouTube.
| https://helenevogelsinger.bandcamp.com/
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYxheEGl2oM
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25FTlO42VY
|
| Some others that come to mind:
| https://polypores.bandcamp.com/
|
| https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/music
|
| Evan B's label for this music only
| https://www.behindtheskymusic.com/
| Retr0id wrote:
| People with the talent/skills/motivation to make music will
| end up making music with whatever they can get their hands
| on, and for anyone who doesn't fall into that category, no
| amount of equipment purchasing will fix it.
| lukas099 wrote:
| And folks who make music for a living don't generally have
| lots of disposable income.
| 42lux wrote:
| Might not be your cup of tea but finneas the brother/producer
| of billie eilish made a lot of top 10 hits while using an
| OP-1...
| pbronez wrote:
| Heh I feel called out. I love these kinds of things and don't
| publish any music. For me, it's about the joy of making
| music. It's not a performance, it's a recreational activity.
| It's playful.
|
| When I want productive music making, with the intention of
| publishing, a computer with a DAW is the obvious tool for the
| job. No question. Hands down.
|
| Still, there are absolutely people who publish fun tracks and
| perform live with this stuff:
|
| https://youtube.com/@teftymeems
|
| https://youtube.com/@espenkraft
|
| https://youtube.com/@hainbach
|
| https://youtube.com/@elisetrouw
|
| https://youtube.com/@truecuckoo
|
| https://youtube.com/@bobeats
|
| And that's just the indie fringe. Chvrches uses hardware
| synths. The Stranger Things soundtrack includes a critical
| sequence programmed on a modular sequencer for microtonal
| control. The Weekend's Dawn FM video album features a Moog
| One prominently. Taylor Swift performed with a special
| edition Prophet 12. Etc etc
| code_biologist wrote:
| I think you're largely right but man there's some gold in the
| jams. Here's a 1 minute synth jam video posted to youtube 17
| years ago, it still blows me away:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Kiw4aoex4
|
| Of course he's brilliantly talented and became Dorian
| Concept, to your point.
| Bluestein wrote:
| In today's digital world, fraught with impermanence - to
| find things going _that far back_ is fascinating.-
|
| PS. Much more so when it "chronicles" the development of
| talent, such as is the case here.-
| doctorhandshake wrote:
| Nice find!
| audunw wrote:
| > and i've still never seen anybody make genuinely good music
| with any of these things. not even once.
|
| So? Why does that matter?
|
| I have a decent second hand Nord Piano 3 .. I certainly can't
| make good music on it, but I have fun playing it. Sure, with
| that kind of instrument I'm sure there's plenty of people
| making great music on it, but does that matter to me? Not
| really
|
| I'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority of instruments
| sold are never used to make genuinely good music. People buy
| them to challenge themselves, to have fun, to learn new
| things.
|
| Some instruments are more aimed at that kind of usage rather
| than actually making good music, and I think it's fair to say
| that Teenage Engineering stuff falls in that category.
|
| I bought a couple of pocket operators at some point. I found
| it very fun and challenging to work within the constraints of
| those devices. I would never use any professional music
| making software because it's just too overwhelming. But with
| the Pocket Operator I feel motivated to try making some
| simple jams and have fun with it. It's never going to become
| anything serious and that's OK.
| Almondsetat wrote:
| Just like 99% of golfers buying expensive and cool clubs are
| middle aged white rich dudes who just play with their friends
| two times a month and brag.
|
| It's no coincidence that we invented the "enthusiast" or
| "prosumer" categories precisely to separate certain products
| from professionals
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| OP-1's portability, synth range and 4 track combo seems to
| have been pretty successful creatively from what I've seen,
| beyond that they've been extremely limited though. Closest
| I've seen them come is the OP-Z but a combo of build quality
| issues and just not getting the idea across very well has
| crippled it. There's a decent argument a lot of those people
| could've achieved the same with some much cheaper 4 track
| alternative but it probably wouldn't have drawn them in as
| much.
|
| Pocket Operators are a great fidget toy but the collecting
| nature of them all is a bit annoying (saying that as someone
| who bought a bunch of them and only ever really enjoyed 3 of
| them: 14, 32 and 33). Useless as music outside of maybe an
| drum beat to improv over from what I can see though?
|
| Have very little issue with them myself though. Even absurd
| projects like the Choir are kinda neat to me; toys for rich
| people to burn money on which may result in other people
| stealing the good bits and making something better and more
| accessible.
|
| Think whatever this is is a big misstep after the EP-133 done
| a good job addressing a bunch of their past issues as a
| business (albeit with a lot of room to improve)
| tayistay wrote:
| Well, probably wouldn't be able to convince you that the
| artists playing shows using Euroroack (or Elektron, or TE) in
| front of bigger audiences that you ever have are "genuinely
| good."
| tetha wrote:
| I kind of have the same thought. This very much looks
| interesting and I like the whole folk/medieval metal scene
| quite a lot.
|
| But the realist and the person in my who doesn't like spending
| money both agree: If $350 - $500 are on the table, I'm probably
| better off with a good keyboard with MIDI support, since it's a
| more open-ended and flexible tool. And my DAW can do a lot of
| the looping, looped recording, effects and such.
|
| But enough negativity, this thing still looks really, really
| cool.
| 0mp wrote:
| Teenage Engineering gear is not meant to last. It is an
| illusion created by how their product looks like and how it is
| marketed. Once the warranty expires, you won't be able to
| repair products like TX-6. I've gotten bitten by that myself.
| TE does not really provide much support to its users to help
| them maintain and repair this expensive gear.
| kashyapc wrote:
| Very well said on gear-trap. Last night I was watching an old
| video[1] of the kind of gear Olafur Arnalds uses.
|
| I was amazed and aghast at the amount of expensive "outboard"
| gear and other vintage hardware such as "compressors", "filter
| banks", "levelling amplifiers", Korg PS-3100, a vintage analog
| synthesizer which costs more than 20,000 (!) euros,tape
| recorders, etc.
|
| Many of these things I didn't even know existed. But I'm just a
| newbie to learning music.
|
| It's a privileged position to be in, to just acquire whatever
| vintage hardware, instead of resorting to emulated software to
| create the sounds.
|
| At least, he (and others like Nils Frahm) can justify it, as a
| highly successful professional musicians. But many hobbyist
| musicians seem to fall into the trap of, "if only I get that
| Roland Juno-60, I'll make more awesome music".
|
| [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=2jTHNuvuQC0
| criddell wrote:
| > "if only I get that Roland Juno-60, I'll make more awesome
| music"
|
| But you might! A new instrument can inspire you and make you
| want to play more music and that _can_ lead to improvement.
|
| All things considered, the Medieval isn't all that expensive.
| All you are really risking is approx. $100 if buying new
| (because you can resell on eBay) and practically nothing if
| you buy it used.
| max_ wrote:
| Teenage Engineering is like the reincarnation Apple Computers.
| medion wrote:
| Whoever is the creative director at TE is amazing.
| kfarber wrote:
| this is going to be amazing for fantasy mmorpgs
| yreg wrote:
| I would love the product visual to be interactive. It screams
| "play with me".
| uwagar wrote:
| i checked if it wasnt april 1 :D
| siquick wrote:
| I've been producing music on both software and hardware for 20
| years. Borrowed the EP-133 KO II from a mate and found it to be
| highly initiative and pure style over substance. I don't get what
| its selling point is. OP-1 I can understand but this thing is
| pointless.
|
| But at least the layout follows she Golden Ratio I guess.
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| The K.O II makes the Octatrack look like a UX Award Winner
| drakonka wrote:
| I'm only mildly and peripherally interested in music making but
| this looks _like so much fun_.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| I love the blackletter style 7-seg display.
|
| Seems like the people at TE have fun over-designing gadgets that
| are more aesthetic than usable. Good for them that they've
| managed to make a viable business out of it.
| diggan wrote:
| > Seems like the people at TE have fun over-designing gadgets
| that are more aesthetic than usable
|
| You're saying this like their over-designing blocks/prevents
| basic usability, but the small amount of TE devices I've tried,
| they just look good, are easy to understand and are easy to
| use. Maybe the sound/workflow isn't revolutionary, but not
| every device needs to be either.
|
| I'll still keep mostly to Elektron, but can't say I haven't
| been close to buying an OP-1 before the prices got too crazy.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| > You're saying this like their over-designing
| blocks/prevents basic usability
|
| I meant it more like they are not building products that are
| there to meet some need for the general population that isn't
| met, they aren't designing and building general use-case type
| products, but instead building extremely niche things like
| medieval samplers. Oddball, extreme niche uses. Like they
| aren't trying to build something like a piano that's light
| and easy to move, or a guitar where the strings never break,
| but these fun gimmicky toys. Something nobody ever asked for
| but which makes you smile.
| diggan wrote:
| > I meant it more like they are not building products that
| are there to meet some need for the general population that
| isn't met, they aren't designing and building general use-
| case type products, but instead building extremely niche
| things
|
| You're describing like 90% of all music hardware that is
| being launched today :) Who really needs a new delay pedal
| when there already exists thousands of them? Hardly makes
| them being gimmicks though.
|
| A groovebox with a sampler isn't that niche at all I'd say,
| it's just the theme/design that is niche, but considering
| it's also a small hardware upgrade compare to the original,
| it isn't just a different theme but an incremental upgrade.
|
| That said, as a electronic music producer myself I wouldn't
| buy this either, but not because of the theme/design.
| jerbearito wrote:
| It's perfectly fair to call this gimmicky and niche (note
| the commenter you're replying to didn't call it an
| outright gimmick). Sure, a groove box on its own isn't
| niche, but one loaded with samples of medieval
| instruments is arguably quite niche.
| groby_b wrote:
| As a guitar player: Nobody wants strings that never break.
| How would we ever try new strings? ;)
|
| But as much as this is a half-joke, it also encapsulates an
| attitude that Teenage Engineering caters to: A lot of
| musicians love new experiences, even if they are minute
| changes. Because music is ultimately about taste, and
| playing it is about finding just the right minute changes,
| and creating it is about finding just the right
| inspiration.
|
| Yeah, it's a bit gimmicky, but that's the point: Novelty to
| stimulate new ideas.
| fmbb wrote:
| 100% of electronic music gear for sale is for 0 needs of
| the general population.
| sizzle wrote:
| I have an Elektron Octatrack I turned one twice collecting
| dust. Want to buy it or know the best way I can sell it to
| someone who will love it to make music?
| komposit wrote:
| Aah so this is how we got the medieval version of still D.R.E.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Uvr5v8IOE
| mainframed wrote:
| No love for the long s1 when using a medieval font :(.
|
| 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s
| severak_cz wrote:
| I found it really funny. It's obviously probably useless for
| actual medieval music[0] but I think it can find it's users in
| bardcore or dungeon synth circles.
|
| You can definitely recreate this just by collecting appropriate
| VSTs and sample libraries, even probably by just loading some
| "medieval samples" to some groovebox.
|
| But if I got this second hand on cheap price I would definitely
| make some fun with it even if it has somewhat cryptic labels.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6_8ZEhmaGE
| diggan wrote:
| > You can definitely recreate this just by collecting
| appropriate VSTs and sample libraries, even probably by just
| loading some "medieval samples" to some groovebox.
|
| This is true for basically all electronic music hardware
| available today and in the past. I guess what we really pay for
| when buying these type of hardware is what's missing rather
| than what's included, and the constraints that helps you focus
| on actual music making.
| jeegsy wrote:
| Lets just take a moment to give thanks for the technology that
| has made "dungeon synth" possible.
| severak_cz wrote:
| Yeah, it was all 90s ROMplers and soundfounts. I can
| definitely record some dungeon synth bangers with my Kawai K1
| (which is basically ROMpler, just samples are single cycle
| waveforms) and it sounds just right.
| testaccount135 wrote:
| At first I thought this was an Aprils Fools' Day joke then I
| looked in the calendar and saw it was too late.
|
| Is there any functional difference to the EP-133? Interestingly
| It seems that they have different operating systems.
|
| https://teenage.engineering/downloads
| import wrote:
| Few new features (not revolutionary) and bigger memory
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| The 10-segment digits are very cool.
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| Teenage.engineering must be owned by "people of leisure",
| creating things they feel are personally fun and satisfying
| without worrying about the business side of things like
| profitability.
|
| Sure the OP-1 and the PO-400 are cool, but the price of the OP-1
| Field is a non-starter and the usability of the K.O II would make
| lookmumnocomputer cry.
|
| Now... this!?! Who would look at this and say "yes, I need one of
| these" (I just checked the date to make sure it's not either
| April 1st or Halloween)
|
| Maybe they're really performance artists wanting to hone their
| industrial design skills in parallel on the side
| thom wrote:
| I've managed to convince myself over the years I wouldn't
| actually use any of Teenage Engineering's stuff, however I might
| lust after it. But 200 hours of Manor Lords and a Lankum gig
| later, this was the fastest PS249 I've ever spent.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mRQK9kCHA
| addandsubtract wrote:
| Meanwhile, it costs EUR350 in Euroland.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Now do alcoholic beverages!
| winstonrc wrote:
| Does anyone have recommendations for a more practical, entry-
| level device for making small songs? I'm making a survival-horror
| game for the Playdate and need some music that fits the vibe.
|
| The reason I've been eyeing hardware is because I spend all my
| time writing code and drawing pixel art, so it would be nice to
| have something away from the computer to work with.
| neom wrote:
| Their other stuff is pretty good. The device this is built
| around is amazingly fun:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeafE30nIC4 - OPZ also fun:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCgjKgPrE0M
| severak_cz wrote:
| Old Android device with (pirated APK of) Caustic 3[0]. Or old
| Windows PC with Ultranos Dreamer[1] if you wanna go really
| medieval.
|
| [0] Caustic 3 was removed from Google Play unfortunately, you
| need to download it from alternative sources
|
| [1] see https://zahrada.svita.cz/en/ultranos-dreamer
| SonOfLilit wrote:
| My favorite device for standalone music authoring is the NI
| Maschine. They sell an expensive standalone version but a cheap
| second hand controller feelssvery off-the-computer with your
| laptop connected but the screen closed.
| j7ake wrote:
| Might as well buy Nord piano and access their awesome sound
| library.
| sentrysapper wrote:
| I'm not sure you can get a functional Nord Piano for $300
| strangus wrote:
| This is going to dominate the dungeon synth.
| theahura wrote:
| O man I love teenage engineering. I built a visual archive of
| their work just a few days ago --
| https://play.soot.com/teenageengineering
| a3w wrote:
| how do i pinch to zoom with a mouse?
| ceravis wrote:
| mousewheel to zoom, left click to drag works for me on
| firefox windows
| aspirin wrote:
| Control + mouse scroll wheel works for me
| eweise wrote:
| Most of the stuff seems way overpriced
|
| https://teenage.engineering/products/field-desk
|
| Looks like a $100 desk for $1,600
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| it's not a desk man, it's a _field desk_ , a whole new
| category of product
| zdragnar wrote:
| Wow, they even exclude it from their free shipping offer.
| andrejk wrote:
| I definitely wouldn't pay $1600 but I like the idea of an
| ultra-modular and configurable desk. I wonder if you could
| build something similar with 80-20 extrusions (and/or similar
| knock-off) and an Ikea desktop. There's a huge ecosystem of
| ways to integrate/extend these and you could do some cool
| things with them.
| subjectsigma wrote:
| This is the 10,000th time someone has posted TE products to
| HN and said they're overpriced. They make high-end luxury
| products for rich people, if you think it's too expensive
| then you're not the target audience. This is like saying a
| Lamborghini is too expensive because you can by a Toyota that
| does 90% of the same stuff for a fifth of the cost. Every one
| knows, that's the point.
|
| I mean I get it, I would never buy anything from TE either,
| just like I can't afford a Lamborghini. But I can still look
| at it and go "Wow, that's really pretty."
| eweise wrote:
| Funny because I bought a pocket operator because it was the
| cheapest drum machine I could find. Glad they made the jump
| from Kia to Lamborghini.
| stingrae wrote:
| This is the cost of doing business when you have to pay for
| engineering (and tooling + certification) on niche products.
| Nothing they do is really designed for mass market.
| groby_b wrote:
| Uhuh. You can get a desk reasonably close to this for $80
| at IKEA. I love TE, a lot, but that desk is just
| shamelessly milking the audience.
|
| More power to them, they created an audience who wants to
| pay that, but you're not paying for engineering here.
| eweise wrote:
| Desks, drum machines, synthesizers, mixers are not really
| niche products. They take fairly common items, and create a
| version that appeals to hipsters but is not as useful as
| cheaper options. Example $2k for this little synth
| https://teenage.engineering/store/op-1-field which wouldn't
| appeal to most synthesizer enthusiasts. Its more like
| office desk toy.
| barrenko wrote:
| What is this soot thing, it's as if tumblr and pinterest had an
| art school baby.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Did you arrange that in the shape of an among us on purpose?
| BigParm wrote:
| It's madness that they're selling merch around this. I love it.
| cschneid wrote:
| This made me think of a question I've had for a bit now.
|
| What is the cheapest way to get a grid of buttons that wires into
| a laptop (mac if it matters) to play sound effects? My wife is a
| teacher and would really enjoy hitting a button and getting some
| dumb sound effect to play. But it's just a lark, so it's not
| worth too much $ invested.
|
| I had assumed a cheap drum pad + midi, but not 100% sure that
| makes sense.
| pfyra wrote:
| Perhaps a "game" with a different sound for each key on the
| keyboard? Can be created quite simply with SDL.
| samatman wrote:
| Search for "effects pad" on your online marketer of choice.
| Show a few to your wife in the affordable range (whatever that
| means to you), get the one she likes. Personally I would make
| sure the screenshots do not include the price tag, but that's
| me.
| gaudystead wrote:
| My guess would be to build a DIY Stream Deck (basically a
| standalone keyboard with macros mapped to the keys), such as
| the one found here:
|
| https://www.partsnotincluded.com/diy-stream-deck-mini-macro-...
| Bjartr wrote:
| Cheapest grid would probably be an external numpad controlling
| a soundboard
|
| https://github.com/Shadetheartist/Numboard_X
| strangecasts wrote:
| Not necessarily the _cheapest_ possible options, but cheap
| enough and fairly quick to get going:
|
| If you want a MIDI pad controller, the Korg nanoPAD 2 [1] is
| $65 new (and often pops up used) and powered entirely off USB.
| You can then set up Sitala [2] to listen for notes from the pad
| and drag-and-drop samples onto each note.
|
| If you want keyboard-style keys, the Pimoroni Keybow kit [2] is
| $57 - there is a bit of assembly, but no soldering.
|
| [1] https://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/nanopad2/
|
| [2] https://decomposer.de/sitala/
|
| [2] https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/keybow-2040
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| I've seen nanopads (1 and 2) go for $20 fairly often; the
| kind of thing that's so cheap I'm always tempted to get it
| with minimal actual use cases for it.
| swozey wrote:
| These bastards. I know I'll use this thing 5 times and I've
| resisted buying one but they look so cool I want one.
|
| I _love_ medieval stuff. They 're even being campy/mocky and I
| don't care I want a medieval synth.
| wigster wrote:
| i prefer almost medieval. but very nice
| DidYaWipe wrote:
| Medieval what?
| slater wrote:
| Medieval.
| hjnilsson wrote:
| While I'm not a consumer of this product, I met some of the
| product designers at the medieval week in Visby, Sweden today.
| And that the company supports a project like this, which is
| clearly a passion project, displays joy. After this I think
| teenage engineering is a great place to work. Not just a SV
| product factory.
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