[HN Gopher] Blackhouses of Scotland
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Blackhouses of Scotland
Author : yamrzou
Score : 66 points
Date : 2024-08-06 20:19 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.amusingplanet.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.amusingplanet.com)
| kamaitachi wrote:
| Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language
| (Gaelic). As an Irish person who speaks English (for obvious
| historical reasons), visiting Scotland blew my mind because of
| the common language.
|
| Here's an example of a simple stone house from the south west of
| Ireland:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloch%C3%A1n
|
| Note that these are some houses from Skellig Michael, used as a
| film location for one of the Star Wars movies Edit: typo
| arethuza wrote:
| What became Scotland pretty much originated with the kingdom of
| Dal Riata that stretched between Ireland and Britain and there
| are a _lot_ of legends and myths that tell of strong
| connections between the two e.g. Deirdre of the Sorrows
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre
| amiga386 wrote:
| "Pretty much" is doing a lot of work there. The kingdom of
| Dal Riata was predominantly the islands and the west coast of
| modern Scotland. Picts held the north, east and central parts
| of modern Scotland, the Britons of Strathclyde ruled the
| south-west and the Anglo-Saxons of Bernicia (later joining
| with Deira to form Northumbria) the south-east.
|
| There were many other tribes, this is a gross simplification.
|
| Ultimately the Picts and Celts/Scots of Dal Riata "merged"
| (if that's the right word? it's not clear who took over who)
| in the 700s-800s, for certain by the time of Kenneth MacAlpin
| who was both King of Dal Riata and King of the Picts, and by
| the 900s this was the Kingdom of Alba, later the Kingdom of
| Scotland. This Kingdom still did not include what's in modern
| south-west Scotland, that was won later.
| mbreese wrote:
| FWIW, the British History Podcast does a pretty good job of
| covering Scotland and the migration of people through this
| period. I actually don't know how good it is, but I do at
| least remember all of the names and places you mentioned.
| :)
|
| The podcast is quite England heavy, but does also cover
| Scotland and Wales, as well as the relevant parts of
| France, Ireland, and Denmark (as appropriate).
| m-i-l wrote:
| > _Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common
| language (Gaelic)_
|
| Just on parts of the west coast of Scotland - much of mainland
| Scotland spoke the Scots language, with the (now dead) Norn
| language spoken in the northern areas (with Norse heritage),
| and other languages in the border areas. The promotion of
| Scottish Gaelic as a "national language" is very much modern-
| day myth-building.
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| It depends how far back you go. Gaelic was spoken across the
| country, not just on the west coast. Nowadays it's been more
| or less eradicated, except from the Western Isles (where it's
| not that widely spoken - English is the main spoken
| language). And it's increasingly become a political football
| so you see untrue statements made about its history.
| netcan wrote:
| Scots is an English dialect, descended from Northumbrian
| English.
|
| The dialect is arguably alive in some locales, including some
| places northern Ireland.
|
| To me, the dividing line is code switch. There are rural pubs
| and such where people will noticeably switch to standard
| English when speaking to non-locals.
|
| Ulster Scots, it is sometimes called.
|
| Hard to draw distinct lines, especially since the "standard"
| English near Scots speaking locales is not very standard.
| Glasgow, Newry and whatnot have pretty quirky "standard"
| English.
|
| That said, an average person from Newry won't code switch. If
| you can't understand the accent, they'll just speak loader,
| slower and more directly at your forehead.
|
| To me that makes it "not a dialect."
| arethuza wrote:
| I'm originally from a small fishing village in north-east
| Scotland and used to speak a _very_ broad dialect called
| Doric (loons, quines etc.) I 'm pretty sure this is fairly
| different from the "Ulster Scots" you mention.
|
| What was interesting is that people from a farming
| background had a very different accent to folks from the
| coastal fringe - even though they might only be living a
| couple of kms away!
| netcan wrote:
| That's a very interesting point.
|
| We tend to think genealogically about these things. I
| said "Scots is descended from northumbrian" and that
| Ulster Scots is spoken in NI. But irl... dialects are
| porous. They don't really "descend."
|
| In any case, I believe that most of the language
| influence is from the borderlands and the glasgow area.
| That said, 400 years is a long time... especially
| considering how young English is.
| arethuza wrote:
| An interesting example is "weans" vs "bairns" for
| children... first time I heard the former I had no idea
| what people were talking about. "Weans" seems to be a
| shortened form of "wee ains" and "bairns" is from Old
| English:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairn
| m-i-l wrote:
| I'm originally from Shetland, but moved to the Scottish
| Borders when I was young, and do remember people had a
| very hard time understanding my Shetland dialect (which I
| had to lose pretty quickly to communicate locally).
|
| And to the original point, neither Shetland nor the
| Scottish Borders have ever had any Gaelic influence at
| any point in their history, and recent attempts to claim
| otherwise tend not to go down too well with the locals.
| olddustytrail wrote:
| No, Scottish Gaelic was the main language at the time of
| Scotland emerging as a nation and for a couple of centuries
| afterwards.
|
| The demotion of the Scottish Gaelic language is ignorant
| assertion. Stop listening to it and educate yourself.
| bloqs wrote:
| This is entirely factually incorrect I'm afraid, Scots is
| essentially accented English
| arethuza wrote:
| Far are ye fae?
| olddustytrail wrote:
| This is entirely factually incorrect I'm afraid, English is
| essentially accented Scots.
| kgeist wrote:
| Interesting, in Northern Russia they also had no chimneys up
| until the beginning of the 20th century (in other places,
| chimneys were introduced much earlier). They also called it
| "black heating".
|
| How common was it in Medieval Europe?
| dave333 wrote:
| Why does this remind me of the Four Yorkshiremen comedy sketch -
| "You were lucky! We lived in hole in the ground."
|
| https://youtu.be/ue7wM0QC5LE?si=exz-ZT2YMmZwmi1G
| dave333 wrote:
| One of these with a rocket mass heater
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mass_heater
|
| would solve the smoke and heating problems in one go. Wouldn't
| need trees either as you could burn whatever is providing the
| thatch material - small sticks/brush.
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(page generated 2024-08-07 23:00 UTC)