[HN Gopher] The Saucer - A DIY trackpad attachment for the Voyager
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       The Saucer - A DIY trackpad attachment for the Voyager
        
       Author : robenkleene
       Score  : 86 points
       Date   : 2024-08-05 22:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.zsa.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.zsa.io)
        
       | bloopernova wrote:
       | I've wanted something similar for my Alice layout keyboard:
       | attached to closest edge of the keyboard, between the 2 space
       | bars, would be a good place for a wheel or trackball.
       | 
       | A roller or wheel in that position would allow either thumb to
       | use it with hopefully a minimum of movement/stretching.
        
         | lylejantzi3rd wrote:
         | Have you seen this?
         | 
         | https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
        
           | jjkaczor wrote:
           | Arghhhh... I did not have to see that... I was happy with my
           | Kinesis Gaming Freestyle RGB Edge KB... Sigh, checks
           | wallet...
           | 
           | Thanks!
        
             | Zetaphor wrote:
             | It's the best keyboard I've ever owned. The uhk with the
             | riser is my final form.
        
           | BossingAround wrote:
           | If only UHK was ortholinear. I have Ergodox EZ now and it's
           | almost perfect. Wouldn't want to go back to a non-ortholinear
           | keyboard.
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | Makes me want that modular add-on to be a standard on
           | keyboards.
        
       | LoganDark wrote:
       | What is "the Voyager"? I guess I can find a link to it in the
       | navigation bar, but I had no idea what this article was talking
       | about (a computer?) until then.
        
         | Palomides wrote:
         | it's very funny that there isn't just a picture of the end
         | result mounted on the keyboard
        
           | alanbernstein wrote:
           | Yes, that should be at the top of the page. There is one in
           | the build guide.
        
             | LoganDark wrote:
             | It should be somewhere in the page. I instinctively
             | scrolled to the bottom looking for an end result but
             | couldn't find one. I was so confused lol
        
         | rigonkulous wrote:
         | Its a DIY split keyboard:
         | 
         | https://www.zsa.io/voyager
        
           | cdavid wrote:
           | It is programmable but the HW is sold assembled and ready to
           | use. Wouldn't qualify it as DIY.
        
             | LoganDark wrote:
             | Open hardware perhaps?
        
               | BossingAround wrote:
               | It's open source for sure. But yeah, there's no DIY
               | required (which is why ZSA and their keyboards are so
               | popular - it's the Apple of the DIY-programmable-
               | ergonomic-keyboard world, providing excellent build
               | quality and great experience for a price).
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | >> What is "the Voyager"?
           | 
           | > Its a DIY split keyboard:
           | 
           | For me, the next mystery is _What is he trying to do?_
           | 
           | His issue: _[cats] graze the edge of my trackpad [making]
           | mouse around register weirdly_
           | 
           | His solution: _I had seen some implementations of a Cirque
           | trackpad on other DIY split keyboards_
           | 
           | I would describe (his presentation of) his solution as
           | "Darmok and Jalad..." but that would be oblique.
           | 
           | So, what is a Cirque in this context?
        
             | brk wrote:
             | The whole thing is written for insiders. Nothing wrong with
             | that, but when it gets picked up by an aggregator like HN
             | you have the issue of 99% of your new readership having to
             | figure out what exactly it is you are talking about.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | Well, luckily whenever that happens, someone asks "wtf is
               | going on?" and the entire comment thread fills with all
               | the context you could possibly need
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | It's a spontaneous, Cooperative MMO.
        
         | wredue wrote:
         | It's an ergonomic split keyboard. I have one. It is nice to
         | type on.
         | 
         | That said, I personally find that having so little keys is a
         | problem. I like typing on it, but when I am doing heavy
         | sysadmin stuff, it is not a pleasure to use. You have to spend
         | a lot of time planning this keyboard and its layers out for
         | your workflow.
         | 
         | It is also not great for gaming due to the reliance on hold
         | keys.
         | 
         | Overall, pleasure for typing. If you workflow needs a lot of
         | layer switching, I was not a fan.
        
         | secretsatan wrote:
         | I was equally confused, google left me more so
        
       | alanbernstein wrote:
       | Excellent work. This is a key component of a truly ergonomic
       | keyboard for me, and only a tiny fraction of fancy keyboards
       | include pointing devices.
       | 
       | I discovered that round trackpad module a while ago, and
       | considered a similar project. I ended up getting a UHK paid for
       | by my company's ergonomics budget instead.
        
       | Klaster_1 wrote:
       | Interesting to see Plasticity used for actual manufacturing CAD
       | work, I always though you'd be better of with a dedicated tool
       | like FreeCAD and rely on Plasticity for artistic work and asset
       | modelling. Glad to see the project get traction, been following
       | it for several years.
        
         | linsomniac wrote:
         | Plasticity is what I want to look at for my next modeling
         | program, but so far I seem to be able to make what I want using
         | TinkerCAD, so I'm getting along without having to climb another
         | learning curve.
        
       | helsinki wrote:
       | Those are two of the ugliest cats I have ever seen, no offense.
        
         | aajaces wrote:
         | I'm glad I wasn't the only one
        
         | voidUpdate wrote:
         | I've never really understood the attraction to hairless cats.
         | They look like someone's scrotum instead of a cute ball of
         | fluff that I expect from a cat
        
         | noelwelsh wrote:
         | They are Sphynx cats[1]. I'm not a fan of selective breeding in
         | cats. Dogs, which have been much more selectively bred, have a
         | huge number of inherited health issues as a result. E.g. pugs
         | and other dogs with short noses tend to have a lot of health
         | problems[2,3]. Cats have largely not been selectively bred, but
         | selective breeding is becoming increasingly common and has
         | negative impacts on the animals' health.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_cat
         | 
         | [2]: https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/health-
         | wellbeing/at-...
         | 
         | [3]: https://www.rvc.ac.uk/Media/Default/small-
         | animal/documents/q...
        
           | generalizations wrote:
           | I don't understand the purpose of your digression into
           | selective breeding in dogs?
           | 
           | > the Sphynx was developed through selective breeding of
           | these animals, starting in the 1960s
        
             | noelwelsh wrote:
             | Dogs have a longer history of selective breeding and so
             | provide evidence of where we can expect cats to end up if
             | selective breeding of cats continues. (Also a little bit of
             | education for people who might not be aware of these
             | issues.)
        
           | haliskerbas wrote:
           | Always surprised when people buy (as opposed to rescue) one
           | of those health issue ridden pups which are constantly
           | hobbling around and panting from just walking. Some people
           | find it cute but it really is sad to see the little gremlin
           | have a painful life trying to do normal dog things.
        
             | AuryGlenz wrote:
             | I had an old classmate buy a French bulldog as a puppy, and
             | found out two days later it needed major surgery. She
             | posted this to Facebook as a "poor me" post. Infuriating.
             | Bring the dog back and get something healthy instead of
             | encouraging that awful practice.
             | 
             | 2/3 dogs I've had in my life have been mutts and they've
             | been incredibly healthy, smart, and loving.
        
         | naught0 wrote:
         | They are adorable little scrotum aliens! They are hideously
         | cute :)
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | Until now I've found cat hair to be an annoying substance.
         | After the surprise of that page; well, maybe it isn't such a
         | bad thing after all.
        
       | jacobedawson wrote:
       | I own the Voyager and it's a great piece of kit, my only wish is
       | that it was wireless, but the team has clear reasons why they've
       | stuck with wired boards (https://www.zsa.io/wireless). A trackpad
       | would be lovely. Very portable and comes with a great key editor
       | to handle layers.
       | 
       | Also worth checking out the one-man Bastard Keyboards (diy and
       | prebuilt), he does the Charybdis kits with trackballs, or the
       | Dilemma Max split mech with a trackpad alongside ortholinear
       | keys: https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma-max-prebuilt-
       | preorder/
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | I followed the "wireless" link, but thought they'd have much
         | better arguments. Couldn't you make a replaceable battery, and
         | an optionally-wired keyboard? Yes, wires are great (I went with
         | wired for mine after my BT one proved too flaky), but wireless
         | controllers are so cheap nowadays that you might as well add a
         | wireless option to your keyboard.
        
         | ericjuta wrote:
         | https://sterling-key.com/
         | 
         | works for me on a qmk keyboard with a trackball!
        
           | leejoramo wrote:
           | Also check out Handheld Scientific's BT-600
           | 
           | http://handheldsci.com/kb/
           | 
           | Be sure to read their documentation which includes a fair
           | amount of macro programming.
        
         | beAbU wrote:
         | Their anti-wireless argument is pretty weak imo. My logitech
         | K780 takes two AAA batteries that I literally replace max once
         | a year. And it uses bluetooth!
        
           | 0x1ch wrote:
           | Although there's a lot of people who don't like to tinker, it
           | is very easy to replace an internal cell pack if the designer
           | went with one.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | Technology breaks everywhere. Wireless is just one more thing
           | to go wrong. Especially for a device that never moves on my
           | desk. Which does not even address the multiple security
           | issues which have been discovered in keyboard protocols.
        
             | inhumantsar wrote:
             | what strikes me as odd with the Voyager though is that the
             | marketing is geared toward using this as a portable
             | alternative to larger split keyboards like the Moonlander.
             | 
             | one marketing photo stuck with me and actually put me off
             | buying it: it had a laptop setup at a generic coffee shop
             | with a cable looped around it going to one half and another
             | connecting the two halves. it looked ridiculous and
             | reminded me of just how annoying that connector cable could
             | be at times.
        
         | zhenpixels wrote:
         | I have a wireless Ergodox from SliceMK. It works well and uses
         | solar for charging!
        
       | lettergram wrote:
       | Unrelated, but I had to do a double take! I too had two naked
       | cats, Java & Mew
       | 
       | Mew (sleeping like the firefox logo) -
       | https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd....
       | 
       | Or sprawled - https://i.imgur.com/iQlwA8h.png
       | 
       | Java (who likes to suck her tail like a thumb) -
       | https://packaged-media.redd.it/g11ncwdswpj31/pb/m2-res_1080p...
       | 
       | Regarding the project, love projects like this
        
       | PetitPrince wrote:
       | Now I wonder how complicated it would be to implement a pointing
       | stick (aka track point aka the red nipple from the Thinkpads). I
       | think it has the same benefits as this circle track point with an
       | even smaller footprint.
        
         | 3np wrote:
         | I've seen quite a few people do something similar with
         | repurposed PSP controllers since a few years ago. Wouldn't be
         | surprised if there's something more purpose-made available by
         | now, if you search around.
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com has a trackpoint option.
         | 
         | And this thing can be added on to others
         | https://holykeebs.com/pages/trackpoint
        
         | dustincoates wrote:
         | As was said in another comment, the UHK has a trackpoint
         | option, which is what I chose for my right module. I highly
         | recommend it--it's replaced mouse usage for me in most
         | situations. (I.e., any time that I'm not doing something only
         | with the mouse.)
        
       | chaos_emergent wrote:
       | I have a moonlander that I love, and I want to add a trackball or
       | trackpad to it.
       | 
       | I saw the mod that Kevin Christensen wrote on ZSA's site:
       | https://blog.zsa.io/diy-moonlander-trackball/
       | 
       | The missing piece is that the trackball doesn't click, and this
       | seems to be the case in general with trackballs on the market.
       | 
       | Does anyone know why trackballs don't click? I'm imagining a
       | casing that would allow the entire ball to drop by a few
       | millimeters to trigger a click. One potential reason is that it's
       | hard to click without moving the mouse on screen, but I'm unsure
       | of how much of an issue that is in reality.
        
         | Rhapso wrote:
         | thumb-keys on the moonlander for click!
         | 
         | The angle of your thumb on the ball will change and turn the
         | ball unless the press is perfect parallel to the axis of the
         | switch at the point exactly opposing the switch on the ball.
        
         | nazzacodes wrote:
         | I build keyboards/mice for a living and also think a trackball
         | with tap to click would be great. Intuitively I see why this
         | would be complex to build. I would say the major paths are a
         | physical switch or touch sensor. I see the physical switch as
         | similar to a mouse wheel which lets you middle click it;-
         | disassemble a mouse and see it's really quite complex to have
         | this whole electronic component move up and down hitting lever.
         | Now imagine trying to mount a similar system below a trackball
         | with 3 far apart touch points and continuous movement of the
         | ball rather than the discrete movement of the mouse wheel which
         | can absorb some rotation (as you mention). I think a touch
         | sensor would be a really interesting way to go, you could
         | probably pass conduction through the right ball and sensor
         | touching the ball, A force feedback vibration motor might also
         | be possible.
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | Ideas that occurred from reading this:
       | 
       | A. Add x and y strain cells to the trackpad [0] so that it acts
       | like an IBM TrackPoint for broad movement when a still thumb
       | applies lateral force. Trackpad capacitance is used for fine
       | movements.
       | 
       | B. Keycap LEDs powered by inductive current [1]. Bonus points if
       | phosphor cob is shaped like characters and can be embedded in a
       | key molding (heat a challenge).
       | 
       | 0. Cirque GlidePoint Circle Trackpads:
       | https://www.mouser.com/c/?marcom=118816186
       | 
       | 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q5GVDQC/
        
       | JS-Sound wrote:
       | PSA: A Voyager is one of the myriads of custom, so-called
       | "ergonomic" keyboards out there. And beware of the photos of the
       | authors' cats - torture breeding specimen.
        
         | alanbernstein wrote:
         | Are you suggesting a standard keyboard is somehow more
         | ergonomic than one that can be adjusted to fit an individual's
         | preferences?
        
       | wucke13 wrote:
       | Note to self and others: please don't plug in/out a TRRS into
       | your keyboard while it's powered. The TRRS usually shortens pins
       | during insertion/removal, which can damage your keyboard. Most
       | keyboard designs do not properly guard the circuitry against the
       | evil of TRRS.
        
       | uticus wrote:
       | Not to negate the work and customization, but a simple solution
       | that's worked for me for years is a Wacom tablet in addition to
       | split keyboard. Works on Win and Linux, and pen input is max
       | ergonomic.
        
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