[HN Gopher] I was a 20-something dethroned dotcom ceo that went ...
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I was a 20-something dethroned dotcom ceo that went to work at
mcdonald's (2000)
Author : kamphey
Score : 166 points
Date : 2024-08-05 14:55 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (web.archive.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (web.archive.org)
| mtmail wrote:
| "10/[20]00-10/[20]00: counterperson, mcdonald's" Does that mean
| he worked there for one month or less?
|
| I checked his Linkedin, the job isn't listed. Jan 2002 he started
| a new photo startup ("50M+ members posted a billion photos"),
| then co-founder&CEO of meetup.
|
| It's a good time capsule of what his thinking was in 2000 but I
| wonder if it was more than a break. At my office job I, too,
| often think I should drive an Uber or deliver food for a month as
| a break.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Is working the counter at McDs something you add to a LinkedIn
| profile? Do people moving from the counter at McDs to
| BurgerKing use LinkedIn?
| reactordev wrote:
| Exactly. I have dozens of jobs I don't list on LinkedIn. I
| wouldn't list McDs either. Your LinkedIn is your resume.
| Something tailored towards the career you choose. These off
| jobs and hustles don't belong in my opinion. Leave that for
| the story telling part of the interview when they ask.
| dumbfounder wrote:
| He was founder of Meetup, acquired by WeWork for $200m in
| 2017, my guess is for cash. They only raised $18m so that
| should be a good exit for founders. I don't think he is
| using his LinkedIn profile to find a new job. I would
| expect him to use his LinkedIn as more of a bio, and
| include the McD's experience.
| robofanatic wrote:
| Why not? Its a nice PR story about early life struggles.
| RandomThoughts3 wrote:
| He wasn't struggling. He had sold his former company
| properly. He was just more or less taking a break by
| working at McDonalds.
|
| Some people said it was a bit disrespectful at the time
| because he didn't need neither the money nor the experience
| and was only doing it for the kick of it. I tend to agree.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| Such a classist comment
| sandspar wrote:
| Guy who makes $200,000 a year is aghast that some people
| actually work at McDonald's
| port19 wrote:
| In our little IT bubble where 3+ interviews are the norm,
| it's fine to envy the straightforward hiring in food-
| service.
|
| Ofc we still got the better deal overall and should only
| complain in hush tones
| bluGill wrote:
| I'm haven't worked at McDonalds for 20+ years, but I
| think that the top manager at each store is making $200k,
| and the top 4 are over $150k - it goes down fast below
| that though. I'm reasonable sure that if I had stayed at
| McDonalds I'd have never had a year where I made less
| than I made in tech. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be
| out, but they pay those they care about well enough, and
| there were some good things I miss.
| bumby wrote:
| > _I think that the top manager at each store is making
| $200k, and the top 4 are over $150k_
|
| Curious what this range is based on? According to ~3.8k
| self-reported salaries from Glassdoor, the McD manager
| salary ranges from $37k-$64k with a median of $48k.
| Nuzzerino wrote:
| I don't like to speculate but I could imagine managers at
| some franchises receiving a bonus based on profits or
| sales.
| bluGill wrote:
| The top manager. The shift managers make about that, but
| the top managers who mostly do paperwork and are rarely
| seen on the floor do better.
| brailsafe wrote:
| Pretty sure my manager at Starbucks made $50k at most. Up
| from there probably higher but not at the store level
| Nuzzerino wrote:
| Is that a word now?
| Maxatar wrote:
| He worked there for a few weeks:
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/scott-heiferman-startup-care...
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Well that explains why he felt nobody appreciated his
| efforts. The first few weeks at a job like that you are
| pretty much just in the way. It takes some time to learn the
| routines and operate the equipment so you can work quickly
| without thinking.
| oceanplexian wrote:
| Agree that's kind of *^%% move, I'd have too much self
| respect to start working somewhere for a few weeks than
| bail.
|
| Doesn't matter if it's a food service job or a FAANG.
| McDonalds was doing him a solid by offering some kind of
| employment for a person presumably down on their luck with
| zero experience. Hiring people is a huge expense and risk
| even for a small franchise.
| klyrs wrote:
| I dunno. Sounds like you've never bitten off more than
| you can chew. I have found myself in a situation before,
| where my continued participation would be an immediate
| low-grade harm and my rate of improvement was slow
| because I had volunteered for something well out of my
| wheelhouse. So I had a dilemma: give up and disappoint
| today, forcing my replacement; or carry on in my
| incompetence and risk the whole endeavor.
|
| Quitting early _did_ bruise my self-respect: people were
| depending on me! But hanging on, just to protect my
| feelings, would have been a much greater regret.
| abduhl wrote:
| Are you implying that working at a McDonalds counter was
| more than the future founder of meetup.com could chew?
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| I believe I can revolutionise multiple fields. I cannot
| cut it working at a fast food restaurant. Ability is not
| one-dimensional.
| AndyNemmity wrote:
| McDonalds can fire you for any reason in my state. At any
| time.
|
| When you're renting yourself to authoritarian
| institutions like corporations, there is no "self
| respect" required for you to always take the best deal
| for yourself whenever possible.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| > McDonalds can fire you for any reason in my state. At
| any time.
|
| Yeah but if you show up for your scheduled shifts and are
| on time, sober, don't steal, and are moderately
| competent, they won't.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| The crossover between people with those qualities and the
| people who find themselves in a position where McDonald's
| is a good deal is quite small. Often times these people
| have been failed by society on a number of fronts and
| have a very different perspective on the arrangement.
| This isn't to absolve people of personal responsibility,
| but we are much more of a product of our environment than
| most of us realize.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Those are the _minimum_ expectations for any job. If you
| can 't do those things you will forever be dependent on
| others to take care of you unless you were born into very
| fortunate circumstances.
| beaglesss wrote:
| I would say stealing is the only of those that would
| exclude you from any job. Lots of stuff requires
| intermittent random periods of competence on your own
| schedule. For instance you could buy a dilapidated house
| and drunkenly fix it during moments of clarity and make a
| fat profit. Or fix and flip cars. Really anything
| involving independently flipping stuff.
| wccrawford wrote:
| And you aren't mouthy with other workers, managers or the
| customers.
| Nuzzerino wrote:
| > in any state
|
| FTFY
| lmm wrote:
| Even just in the US that's not the case in Montana AIUI.
| paulpauper wrote:
| high turnover is common. he was not doing anyone a
| disservice.
| brianshaler wrote:
| I used to work in software sales in a call center. I hated my
| job and the highlight of my week was the Monday burrito special
| down the street at a place where the employees shouted "Welcome
| to Moe's!" whenever customers entered. When thinks ultimately
| fell apart at that job, I went to Moe's and somehow managed to
| get a job despite a lack of food service experience. I lasted a
| while--months, I think--but eventually got fired.
|
| I don't know that there's a moral to that, but I guess I tend
| to look at the urge to bail and go to unskilled (or really,
| differently-skilled) labor less as a virtuous thing and more a
| sign that some in-place re-evaluation is needed with mental
| health in mind.
|
| I still occasionally say "I should become a farmer" but take it
| more as a sign that there's something I probably need to
| address within my current situation and/or I need to get back
| on the wagon of going on morning walks.
| euroderf wrote:
| Maybe you needed to work with your hands for a while.
| gopher_space wrote:
| > somehow managed to get a job despite a lack of food service
| experience. I lasted a while--months, I think--but eventually
| got fired.
|
| Bit of a tangent; I switch between knowledge work and labor a
| bit, and the biggest mistake I see people make is not
| altering their caloric intake or sleep schedule.
| bulletninja wrote:
| Could you elaborate on that? Altering caloric intake and
| sleep schedule as a reaction to what? And how would you
| change between the two regimes? Increase/decrease how much?
| etc.
| mathgeek wrote:
| Not GP, but being on your feet all day will lead to
| needing more calories and sleep for proper recovery.
| jorvi wrote:
| I can't speak to sleep, but you are wrong about the
| calories.
|
| Kurzgesagt has a really interesting video on it:
| https://youtu.be/lPrjP4A_X4s
|
| The caloric part quite blew my mind. I know its not the
| most scientific source but digging deeper in it it does
| seem to match up.
| hackeraccount wrote:
| They should add a date to the title - I saw the $5 and hour and
| was confused. I swear I remember McDonald's starting people at
| $10 an hour even around that time.
| wil421 wrote:
| It says dotcom in the title so it must be around 1999/2000 give
| or take a couple years.
| awad wrote:
| NYC has had shockingly low minimum wage:
|
| https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-minimum-wage/
|
| I specifically remember being a teenager around that time and
| trying to math out a part time job at McDonalds for 5.35 an
| hour and realizing how tough it all was.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| In 2000? Yeah that might be somewhat typical for fast food
| wages depending on locale.
|
| Minimum wage is a floor. It doesn't mean you can hire at that
| rate.
|
| Minimum wage in my state is the federal minimum ($7.25/hr)
| but restaurants here have to pay about double that to get
| anyone.
| huac wrote:
| His most recent LinkedIn role: Fulfillment Center Associate I,
| Part Time, Amazon.
| your_challenger wrote:
| This guy is a legend!
| kotaKat wrote:
| I've done that as a break, once. It was fun to sling boxes
| around for a month on outbound dock. Tune out, grab a box, scan
| a box, tote the box, scan the bin barcode, repeat.
|
| Making bucks, getting exercise, working inside. The discount
| was nice, and I still use the comfy composite toe shoes when I
| need to do some heavy work.
| vecter wrote:
| Confirmed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheif/
|
| From May 2022 - Jan 2023 * 9 mos
| ralferoo wrote:
| There seems to be a certain irony that working at a fulfilment
| centre sounds like one of the least fulfilling jobs you could
| do.
| karaterobot wrote:
| If his timeline and application are true, he was technically
| still the chairman of his company while working at McDonald's, if
| in name only.
|
| > 10/99-10/01: chairman, i-traffic (an agency.com company)
|
| > 10/00-10/00: counterperson, mcdonald's (4th & broadway, nyc)
|
| I sometimes think about going back to work at food service jobs
| after I retire, just to keep busy. I enjoyed those jobs as a high
| school and college student, and I wonder if I still would, or if
| I might be too spoiled now. And if my back was tired at the end
| of a shift when I was 21, I guess now I might just die.
| jprd wrote:
| I dream about working at Toys R Us again, at least a few times
| a month, 20+ years on. I can no longer put the cheapest metal
| swing set on my shoulder and carry it out to a customer's too-
| small car.
|
| But damn it was fun.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Somehow the retail arm of the chain still exists in Canada.
| 80 stores remain.
|
| Note to self: invite US visitors with kids to toys R us.
| swozey wrote:
| I'm around the service industry daily/nightly, used to bartend,
| lots of my friends still bartend. Apart from the social aspect
| of actually enjoying working with your coworkers, cool
| regulars, general night life fun, etc, the world has
| collectively lost it's mind since 2020 and there is not a
| chance I would ever do industry again.
|
| The amount of drama, fights, and just people in general being
| rude assholes since 2020 is astronomically higher than it was
| when I bartended around 2005-2010 and way higher post 2020.
|
| I used to bartend on dirty 6th in austin a decade ago and I
| won't even walk down that street today. Society has lost its
| mind.
|
| I live in a busy bar neighborhood here in denver and we just
| had a door guy get shot and killed 2-3 weeks ago, literally on
| my street at a restaurant I go to every few weeks 4 blocks away
| in broad daylight on a Sunday. A 14-15 year old (iirc) running
| around on a scooter harassing people shot him in a scuffle.
| bogota wrote:
| I still live in denver but in the very outer burbs. I moved
| from market st about a year ago and it is so much better out
| here. Denver needs to gets its downtown under control. I used
| to love nightlife and going out to bars but after 2023 when
| places were all open again I never went out again as it
| didn't feel safe after 9pm.
|
| Really hoping they turn it around.
| swozey wrote:
| This isn't a $XCityBad thing. It's happened to drunk crowds
| everywhere and is completely irrelevant to location or
| whether you're even downtown. I guarantee the two step bars
| in the burbs are filled with drunk drama too nowadays. I
| was in Austin, Tampa, Dallas, Houston and Denver over the
| last decade and go to a few of them yearly. Denver is far
| away the safest out of those and I'm glad to be here. I
| live in 5 points, which I'm sure you think is a big scary
| place.
|
| I will happily trade seeing a person living in a tent and
| being able to go out and do an incredible amount of various
| things literally every single day without driving to living
| in the suburbs, but glad you like it. Cities are scary.
|
| Can't walk home after 9pm.. lmao.
|
| I'm more afraid of sitting at the airport nowadays than
| walking around downtown. That's where the real psychos are
| nowadays. Or hotel bars when traveling. Awful, rude
| impatient people who act like they've never left the house
| before. 2020 really did a number on peoples
| aggression/patience levels and industry people are taking
| the brunt of it.
|
| Hell, if you look at the /r/boomersbeingfools subreddit
| it's all of the people living in the burbs being harassed
| by old angry grandparents constantly. I rarely see that
| crowd out here.
| reaperman wrote:
| I live in one of the cities you mentioned. I think part
| of the problem is that many of the "fun" areas have
| become expensive and bring a different crowd, or people
| feel entitled to a certain experience because of the
| prices they're paying.
|
| The bars that still have $2-3 drinks (yes, these exist!)
| still have a wonderful, self-policing crowd. I also used
| to bartend in the same time range as you, at the
| equivalent of a 6th street bar.
| marcuskane2 wrote:
| > the world has collectively lost it's mind since 2020
|
| Covid causes brain damage. The common symptom of "loss of
| smell" was found to actually be due to covid infection of the
| neurons in brain & cranial nerves. Obviously "brain fog" (or
| memory issues, fatigue, lack of focus, however people
| articulated it) is due to damage to brain.
|
| I wonder how society moves forward. We didn't get the movie-
| horror-story virus that turns people into zombies, but we did
| get a virus that leaves many people with diminished emotional
| regulation, attention span and ability to reason.
| swozey wrote:
| > I wonder how society moves forward.
|
| I'm nervous about this generation of kids who had to grow
| up locked in a house.
| subsubzero wrote:
| I think its just a huge burden that certain states are
| putting on people along with dramatically increased cost of
| living due to insane govt spending. People are really hurting
| right now and tempers are short.
|
| - Housing has gone up 50-60% in the past 3 years.
|
| - Groceries have also gone up 30-40% along with restaurant
| prices.
|
| - Despite the job market for professionals being the worst
| its been since 2008 you have the media gaslighting everyone
| talking about a "vibecession" and saying the economy is the
| strongest its ever been.
|
| - Crime and lawlessness has been out of control, we are
| approaching 90's levels of crime in a few short years.
|
| - Interest rates are the highest they have been in 30+ years,
| all loans etc are now very expensive(see housing costs as
| house prices have shot up).
|
| - Arsonists running wild in California/Oregon/Washington
| causing record wildfires and releasing tons of CO2 into the
| air.
|
| - Homelessness hit record high (up 12% from 2022 to 2023)
|
| - All these things are causing a huge drop in quality of life
| and pushing people to the brink. So many people in my circle
| of friends - engineers, scientists and mgmt that are out of
| work I have never seen anything like this.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| I feel the same way, but rather about being a receptionist.
| Which is an option if you are concerned about manual labor.
| colechristensen wrote:
| I did this between jobs (and slightly overlapping) for a while,
| about 6 months. It didn't pay the bills and I got a seemingly
| permanent repetitive stress injury from working in the kitchen,
| but it was fun and an excellent change of pace. My god I was
| never confused about how to do a task and when I left work I
| was just done, there was no todo list hanging over my head.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| > he was technically still the chairman of his company while
| working at McDonald's, if in name only.
|
| He discusses this in the blog post:
|
| > in my interview, the manager (ralph) asked if i can handle a
| fast-paced, intense environment. i said yes. he looked at my
| resume and asked about my current part-time job as chairman at
| i-traffic. i said, "it's an internet thing." he said "ok" and
| then asked me for my waist size.
| sandspar wrote:
| Did he really use lowercase? The status-seeking, high status
| lowercase mixed with the "outside looking in" account of
| working class people written for the benefit of other rich
| high status people, Jesus.
| xeromal wrote:
| His whole site uses lower case. Seems like a stylistic
| choice. Check it ou
| hackeraccount wrote:
| Yeah. My first real job was at a restaurant and there was
| something totally zen about the work. It wasn't exactly turn
| off your brain but I would just be too busy to think for hours
| on end. Plus the people I worked with were all over the map but
| they were all a hell of a lot of fun to be with. You'd work a
| long shift and then hang out in the parking lot after drinking
| beer or go out to a party.
|
| Ah... it's sad to say but I probably just miss being 20.
| bg24 wrote:
| The key is "Enjoy". There is no substitute to meet people,
| smiling, happy, no politics, no desire to grow or get a raise.
| Plus fixed hours and you are not responding to
| slack/emails/oncalls after that. This is not stress, this is
| fun as long as you do not have to pay large bills.
|
| Yes, it also gives you ideas for new businesses.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| From what I've seen, it's not the same. I worked at McDonalds
| in high school and college. It was fun for the most part. But
| most of the employees were like me. Young, not really adults
| yet, pretty carefree.
|
| The people I see at McDonalds today are not the same at all.
| Mostly older, disinterested, no energy, no spark, marginal care
| for personal appearance. You rarely see a high schooler or
| young person working there. It's just depressing to even be in
| there watching them.
| kranke155 wrote:
| If McDonalds is to exist, it would make sense it would be a
| young person's job. To think that there are large swathes of
| the population who can do no better in prospects is
| depressing indeed.
| konfusinomicon wrote:
| my 6 month stint at mcdonalds was pretty amazing as a
| sophomore in high school. it was 2 no nonsense managers and a
| few chill managers that corraled a bunch of teenagers and
| young adults that liked to get high and have fun. which we
| did with reckless disregard and it was AWESOME! some crazy
| shit went down after close in the ball pit over there lol. i
| got fired by my friend because me and a coworker came in
| after a smoking sesh in the woods to get some free food and i
| was supposed to be working that evening. i brushed it off and
| asked for some free food which we got. it was a great first
| job and i made several connections with people that im still
| friends with to this day. also, i ate so much free mcdonalds
| in that 6 months that i have only had it a handful of times
| in over 20 years since.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| That's interesting. I wonder if it's related to the
| corporation. My local McDonald's hires people who seem to be
| mostly in their early 20's. OTOH, the Dairy Queen that's just
| a few minutes down the road seems to rarely have anyone older
| than 19 or so working there. Average age at DQ seems to be
| around 16.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| McDonalds probably has more hours to cover per week, all
| hours of the day and more year round need.
|
| A DQ may be open early and year round too, but _really_
| needs people in summer evenings and weekends when high
| schoolers are most available.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| It's a franchise; so how each restaurant and region hires
| will vary.
|
| In 2004 I drove between MA and Chicago, and found a very
| stark difference in every one. In Chicago McDonalds was
| hiring people who were coming out of poverty and helping
| build work experience. In PA, the McDonalds were well oiled
| machines and run with pride.
|
| In MA the McDonalds have always been first jobs for
| immigrants / refugees.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Yes I'm mostly going on local observations. Sometimes on a
| road trip I'll still run across a McDonald's that's well
| run, clean, and the employess act like they care at least a
| little bit. But it's much more rare at least in my
| experience.
| ilamont wrote:
| There was a movie subplot that featured something like this as
| part of the main character's midlife crisis. Something with
| Kevin Spacey. American Beauty?
|
| People who retire from professional jobs often do pick up part
| time work that would be classified as "menial" because they
| want to keep engaged and/or make a little extra money. I've had
| older Lyft drivers who retired from professional backgrounds
| including one guy who was a comptroller for an engineering firm
| in Boston. The WSJ sometimes profiles retirees who fall into
| this bucket as well. IIRC there was a former CEO who couldn't
| stand being at home and decided to work at the local airport
| information counter, maybe even as a volunteer.
| bluGill wrote:
| Food service needs a lot of people to work the 2 hour lunch
| shift from 11-1 and then go home. You get out of the house, get
| to talk to real people. Doctors have noticed that people who
| sit around doing nothing tend to die earlier than those who
| stay busy, and people who talk to others also do better, so
| that 2 hour shift could add years to your lifespan. That you
| get some extra spending cash is a nice bonus, but not why you
| do it. (at 16 you do it because they are about all that will
| hire you and you need then money)
| hollywood_court wrote:
| Reminds me of Armie Hammer selling timeshares in the Caribbean.
| your_challenger wrote:
| > Nobody thanked me.
|
| Do you think this is still true?
|
| This resonates with me. I used to work in tech, but I recently
| joined my family's brick-and-mortar business. No one says thank
| you, no one appreciates you. I find it amazing that this culture
| of thanklessness exists even in the US (I'm in India) in non-tech
| jobs.
|
| P.S. I worked at all fronts of the business before joining the
| management. Worked at the counter, as a delivery personal, as a
| sales executive, etc. And when I say "Nobody thanked me" I mean
| no one at the company appreciated my efforts.
| duxup wrote:
| I'm curious what qualifies as "nobody thanked me".
|
| If I told someone "good job" that's not really thanks in my
| mind. I probably wouldn't say "thank you for making the
| fries"... but I would say "good job".
| meiraleal wrote:
| And that's being the job, it wouldn't make sense to repeat
| it, multiple times, multiple days
| your_challenger wrote:
| It's more that no one appreciates the work. Not the customers
| (which I don't expect), nor the management.
|
| Businesses like these are about showing up everyday - day in
| and day out. Unlike in tech, you can't be just smart and find
| "smart solutions". There is no magic. And so people are
| always in a state of normalcy. And any kind of "smart"
| execution takes a lot of time to see its results.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| As a customer, I always say thanks for whatever someone did
| for me, and it I always feel like smacking another customer
| whrn they are on their phone _while_ giving an order to
| someone at a counter, like the human behind that register was
| actually just part of the register. Just an npc, or a
| toaster. The company they work for does see them that way and
| treats them that way, but we have no excuse for doing the
| same.
|
| As an employee, or a boss, I don't find it ridiculous to
| thank or be thanked for random tasks occasionally, especially
| when they are a little out of order. No one needs to be
| worshiped for making fries, and it's techically simply within
| the expected job description for the manager to tell you to
| go out back and wash the rubber floor mats or something
| slightly not your usual task, and yet never acknowledging
| anything ever is also just being an inconsiderate ingrateful
| assshole.
|
| It's worth it not to be that guy even if only for the purely
| self-interest reasons of having more and better choice of
| employees who do a better job on average and give you less
| grief when you need a favor like to cover someone else's
| absense or a large job etc.
|
| Asking instead of telling at least sometimes, and saying
| thanks at least sometimes, has to be genuine too. If it's
| just bs noises that don't actually mean you are being
| accomodating and flexible then don't bother. Even though the
| boss is the boss, and has the right to just didctate, and
| even if the thing you're asking is really all else being
| equal a command, the reason for asking is not just as a
| pacifier so someone feels respected when thy're not, it's to
| allow for the possibility that there actually is some
| problem. 99% of the time there should be no problem and thr
| answer is expected to be "yep got it", by asking, the person
| is far less stressed on an ongoing constant level feeling
| that if there ever was some problem, they could just say so.
|
| It turns dictation into cooperation. Can you restock that
| station later? I have to pick up my kid. Can you do it now if
| I take you off this other thing? ok. ok. Much better that
| way.
|
| Thanks for cooking the fries, or even good job on those fries
| does sound silly, because it is, because it kind of misses
| the point and isn't what they're talking about.
| petsfed wrote:
| I think part of what they mean is that some retail managers
| seem utterly incapable of giving positive feedback in anyway
| except to sandwich a criticism.
|
| Like yes, it can stave off bad responses from volatile
| colleagues to sandwich bad feedback with good, but if that's
| the only place that positive feedback appears, then the
| listener learns pretty quick to just ignore the positive
| feedback. Its evidently disingenuous, and its deeply toxic to
| assume that "because you're working at
| McDonald's/Walmart/etc, you're not smart enough to pick up on
| that".
|
| Certainly, "thank you for making the fries" is poor thanks.
| But "I saw how you hustled to get the fries out during that
| rush, that made $other_employees jobs a lot easier. Thank you
| for that" is good. Too often, retail employees just get the
| "thanks" and not the "here's why I appreciate it".
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| It depends on where and when you work.
|
| When I was a teenager in the 90s I worked cashier at McDonald's
| in an inner city black neighborhood. On Sunday mornings we got
| a big crowd of people coming to/from church, and I'd say the
| majority of them were very kind and courteous - I even got a
| tip a few times. I also worked Saturday afternoon/evenings and
| it was a different story.
| josefresco wrote:
| > Nobody thanked me.
|
| I don't buy this for a second. I thank everyone for even the
| most trivial of interactions and I'm certainly not alone (in
| the US)
|
| Buy a Coke at 7-11 - "thank you!" Take package from UPS guy -
| "thank you!" Waiter takes order - "thank you!" Support rep puts
| me on hold to look up issue - "thank you!" Pretty much every
| retail/store interaction - "thank you!"
| your_challenger wrote:
| People like you do exist. And it is a joy to serve you.
|
| When I said "nobody thanked me", I mean the management
| didn't.
|
| (edited for clarity)
| digging wrote:
| This comes across as quite rude, FYI. You may want to
| clarify and be more specific.
| your_challenger wrote:
| Thank you. I hope I fixed it.
| josefresco wrote:
| Thanks for the clarification - see there I go again!
| neilv wrote:
| I couldn't figure that one out.
|
| Maybe he was speaking of management, franchise, and McD
| corporate?
|
| Or maybe it was a quirk of that store in NYC, or our own
| experiences are otherwise not representative?
|
| Or maybe he was writing more loosely, about a "thankless",
| poorly appreciated, poorly compensated, purely transactional
| job.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| My partner and I were normally polite when picking up ice
| cream from a local dairy a few weeks back. "No rush, take
| your time." Nothing overly fancy from a manners or politeness
| perspective. Was offered free ice cream for "being the nicest
| folks we've had in a long time." Didn't take the free ice
| cream of course, but thanked the folks working.
|
| I suspect overall impoliteness has seen a bit of an uptick,
| from my casual observation of the sociomacro (especially
| during airport and air transportation transit and use), and
| that gratitude is not expressed in casual interactions as
| perhaps it previously was.
|
| https://hbr.org/2022/11/frontline-work-when-everyone-is-
| angr... ("Frontline Work When Everyone Is Angry")
|
| https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-28930-001 ("Catching
| rudeness is like catching a cold: The contagion effects of
| low-intensity negative behaviors.")
| OJFord wrote:
| I find it so jarring when visiting - not so much thanking (I
| would say thanks/cheers in those situations in the UK too)
| but the way it's taken (or so it seems) with such sincerity
| or like it was a huge thing that really needed to be thanked.
| 'Thanks.' -- _oh you 're so welcome!_
|
| It's completely arbitrary really, it's just really noticeable
| and, well, jarring when you're not used to it/used to
| different. I'm sure it's similar in reverse (I thanked him
| and he was so grumpy about it, didn't say a word! (Or he just
| said 'cheers' back, I didn't buy any alcohol?)).
| agiacalone wrote:
| It's anecdotal, but my wife was a Disneyland cast member for
| ~5 years. She claims that the words 'thank you' were a rare
| occurrence to hear from guests...
| brailsafe wrote:
| You may be in the U.S, but are clearly from Canada
| mikestew wrote:
| I took it to mean that no _manager_ ever thanked them. Because,
| like sibling comments, I can't believe no one like myself and
| siblings ordered a burger and said "thank you". Hundreds of
| customers at that counter everyday, _someone_ had to have
| uttered those words. But management, OTOH...
|
| (Alternatively, "no one" being defined as "the vast, vast
| majority of customers". That I could believe.)
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I've been doing nonprofit (free) work for decades.
|
| I almost _never_ get thanked; even after doing tens of
| thousands of dollars ' worth of free work.
|
| That's fine. That's not why I do it.
|
| This reminded me of _American Beauty_ , for some reason...
| jdietrich wrote:
| Here in England, there's a very significant cultural divide
| between North and South. One of the key symbols of that
| cultural divide is whether people thank the bus driver when
| disembarking. In London, thanking the driver would make you a
| bit of a weirdo; in Newcastle, not thanking the driver would
| make you dreadfully antisocial.
|
| I imagine that there's a huge difference in this respect
| between a McDonalds in Manhattan and one in a small town.
| another-dave wrote:
| In London I often see people thanking the driver. At least
| outside of rush hour & outside zone 1
| harry_ord wrote:
| Yeah I see it all the time on buses where you exit by the
| front door.
| frereubu wrote:
| I think it's a central London / outside central London thing.
| Just in my personal experience people in both Brighton and
| Somerset thank the driver, and I bet there are plenty of
| other places like that in the south.
| sph wrote:
| I picked up the habit of saying "cheers drive!" after
| living in Bristol.
| rsynnott wrote:
| In Dublin, thanking the bus driver is such an ingrained thing
| that Dublin Bus use it in their job ads ("Get thanked for a
| living" was a recent one). The switch to two-door buses has
| complicated this, obviously.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| > Do you think this is still true?
|
| Personal opinion, when intra org reciprocity is not discussed
| or measured, quality plummets as a necessary response to
| stress/burnout feedback loops at _every_ scale.
|
| Coming to terms with this """insight""" etc. was tl;dr life
| changing and exactly how is still an open question
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| Yep. (I'm in the US.) The transactionalization of aspects of
| both work and life is depressing. I think it's a confluence of
| multiple factors that may or may not be present in all
| circumstances: a lack of manners, a power imbalance, and/or a
| view that someone who provides a service is a widget rather
| than a human being.
|
| Some data points:
|
| - My next door neighbors in a small town residential
| neighborhood are poorer, but don't say "please" or "thank you"
| for anything.
|
| - An entitled Brahmin dude I used to work with at a Big Name
| University(tm) grew up with a dozen servants never gave
| gratitude or used pleasantries.
|
| - Some other employees at a MAANG I used to work for as well as
| other residents in the apartments I lived in had an attitude of
| "too cool for everyone else" and didn't use pleasantries.
|
| Without rapport and humanity by showing a little real decency
| and compassion, life and business interactions become
| commoditized and cold, and that intangible cool or goodwill
| evaporates and nothing much holds people to each other or
| people to a brand.
| sobelius wrote:
| Honestly, I think he's living the dream -- no tech headaches,
| just flipping burgers and taking it easy. Really makes me
| think...
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I don't understand why this was "dead". It's not a statement I
| fully agree with; but the insight isn't something I'd want to
| keep off of HN.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I believe that flagged+dead indicates people reported the
| comment to death, whereas just "dead" indicates the poster is
| shadowbanned.
| jandrese wrote:
| You've never worked in fast food have you? "Taking it easy" is
| not how it works. You're on the clock 100% until you clock out,
| no rest, no breaks, if a burger takes more than 60 seconds to
| land on the customer's tray the boss is on your ass. If you
| miscalculate how many patties to slap on the grill and either
| run out or you have to toss some because they've sat in the
| steamer for more than 15 minutes you are in for such a dressing
| down. The machine tracks from the start of the order till it is
| closed out so he knows. He has some bullshit regional contest
| thing with all of the other franchisees in the area that he has
| to win if he wants to make that boat payment. If there are no
| customers you are cleaning, even if you just cleaned it. Plus
| you had to spend like half of your time training new recruits
| or filling in for them when they stopped showing after like two
| days. I did one summer of that in college and it cemented me in
| my tech career path. I couldn't deal with the stress.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| You could work the night shift, though that of course has a
| huge trade-off.
| sph wrote:
| Working in restaurants and hospitality is hell on Earth. Work
| long hours for peanuts and get shouted at.
|
| I'd rather be a gardener or a farmer.
| commandlinefan wrote:
| That was a plot point in American Beauty... got to say, at the
| point I was in my life when I saw it, I empathized with him.
| brap wrote:
| I think when you work low paying jobs you quickly learn that
| the worst part is how most people treat you. Customers,
| managers, etc. We in tech take for granted how we're treated.
|
| The baristaFIRE fantasy seems to miss this part.
| supahfly_remix wrote:
| He went on to found meetup.com (see his bio at
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Heiferman).
| nunez wrote:
| Honestly this is something I would like to do once I feel
| "financially ready." I want to be a barista, at least for a
| little while. Like this CEO outlined, it's really easy to be
| detached from the real world when you're working super high
| paying jobs.
| uptime wrote:
| I met Heifermann once during a project and I thought he was a
| grounded person. I remember one thing he did was paying not for
| ad slots, but to change your background to a dalmation spotted
| print for a promotion, with a link. This was long before CSS,
| etc.
|
| He made his money just when the idea of value being divorced from
| real product to virtual metrics, "chasing eyeballs," etc. was
| getting hot. The days when you sold a huge contract by showing a
| CD ROM of the website you were never going to achieve, to a
| client who had no idea what they were buying.
|
| This guy was much more honest than the norm. The McD and meetup
| stuff reflects the fact that he kept people in the equation.
| sandspar wrote:
| Slumming it, basically. You can leave whenever you want, the
| people around you are stuck there.
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