[HN Gopher] Buster: Captcha Solver for Humans
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Buster: Captcha Solver for Humans
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2024-08-04 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | squigz wrote:
       | > reCAPTCHA challenges remain a considerable burden on the web,
       | delaying and often blocking our access to services and
       | information depending on our physical and cognitive abilities,
       | our social and cultural background, and the devices or networks
       | we connect from.
       | 
       | I'm a visually impaired user, and watching captchas get more and
       | more hostile to people like me has been... difficult.
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | I imagine it's going to result in some ADA suits sooner or
         | later, like when people went around suing business who didn't
         | have a ramp alternative to stairs.
        
           | mjcohen wrote:
           | There seems to be quite a business with small businesses
           | being sued for violating the ADA. They can pay about $10,000
           | to make the lawsuit go away.
        
       | jfengel wrote:
       | I'm kinda surprised captcha still exists. It's pretty clear that
       | the robots have beaten it, and when they haven't you can hire
       | armies of humans for the price of a latte.
       | 
       | Not that I want trillions of bots hitting up every resource on
       | the Internet. But I don't see how to stop it at this point except
       | by excluding a fair number of regular people.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | For big sites I agree, but for small to medium it's clear to
         | me. The amount of shit thrown your way drops dramatically with
         | a captcha in the way. It's enough to stop the barely interested
         | scanners/attackers, which in my experience is a huge number of
         | people.
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | This argument might have flown a decade ago, but our current
         | economic environment is largely characterized by ignoring
         | reality - creating vibes for upper management and shareholders
         | is what really matters. And telling them we implemented a
         | CAPTCHA solution creates that vibe.
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | > you can hire armies of humans for the price of a latte.
         | 
         | I've heard this before, but where does one actually hire these
         | humans? Mturk is the only thing that comes to mind.
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | For example https://2captcha.com/ https://anti-captcha.com/
           | https://www.capsolver.com/ https://deathbycaptcha.com/
           | https://nextcaptcha.com/ seems like about $1 for 1000
           | solutions
           | 
           | I suspect these businesses do a first pass of ML in case the
           | captcha is easy, before sending it to a human to be solved
           | manually.
        
         | oxymoron wrote:
         | Countering advanced bits is a game of economics. Sure, we know
         | that they can solve the captchas, but they usually can't do so
         | for free. Eg. Typical captcha solver services are around
         | $1/thousand solved. Depending on the unit economics of a
         | particular bot that might be cheap or it might completely
         | destroy the business model. I've definitely seen a lot of
         | professionally operated bots where they invest a lot of effort
         | into solving the fewest captchas possible to keep the cost
         | down.
         | 
         | That captchas are completely useless is a popular myth.
        
         | technion wrote:
         | That depends what problem you're trying to solve. I've seen web
         | applications deal with someone throwing rockyou at hundreds of
         | users on the logon form. This sort of large scale brute forcing
         | was completely arrested by captcha, the workarounds just aren't
         | worth it at the scale.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | A separate concern I have is that Web sites running ReCaptcha
       | often _require_ leaking privacy-invasive information to Google,
       | in the course of using the site.
       | 
       | Not only does Google presumably usually know exactly who you are
       | when you visit that site, but even if you normally block other
       | Google hidden Web trackers, you can't block the ReCaptcha
       | tracker, so in some cases Google can have a very good idea of
       | what you do on the site.
       | 
       | So, while this browser extension might relieve some of the
       | visible annoyance, it doesn't relieve the more insidious problem.
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Users are punished if Google is unaware of them. I built an iOS
         | app for a major brand but the web view would load with no
         | cookies in a sandbox, and we realized after roll out that all
         | users were needing to solve 10+ _hard_ CAPTCHA challenges to be
         | let through, as Google was unfamiliar with the users. You'll
         | get a similar experience loading over a VPN. We removed it.
         | 
         | It's easy to why device attestation is so alluring to these
         | companies. Anonymity and bots look alike.
        
           | pennybanks wrote:
           | i didnt even think of that but makes sense. valuable pov.
           | 
           | either way im sure most people are just annoyed with the gate
           | code then they are with the tracking and would take the
           | cookie everytime. and i feel like this is similar to many
           | things especially with google.
           | 
           | but people just would rather just believe these companies are
           | against them haha. kinda silly imo
        
         | anonzzzies wrote:
         | I encounter recaptcha a lot and often it violates the gdpr. I
         | believe this to be one of the positives of the gdpr. Things
         | usually go as follows:
         | 
         | - something gets abused
         | 
         | - a solution is needed to stop the abuse
         | 
         | - the 'techies' implement recaptcha and they are not aware of
         | the regulatory implications
         | 
         | - it's such a small thing that it often get's overlooked in
         | internal audits
         | 
         | Google fonts from their cdn is another.
         | 
         | Landing page Youtube videos is another but a little bit more
         | well known.
         | 
         | The user should be warned so they can decide if they want to
         | give Google everything; how else would they know?
        
           | sentientslug wrote:
           | Can you elaborate on why these are violations of GDPR? I
           | presume Google handles the data for EU customers in a manner
           | compliant with GDPR (one would think).
        
             | cess11 wrote:
             | No, they can't, because they're covered by the CLOUD Act.
        
             | aziaziazi wrote:
             | Wouldn't GDPR compliance require to let user refuse third
             | party cookies? If a user don't accept cookies I guess
             | reCaptcha won't work. Do you either
             | 
             | - block them access to your site
             | 
             | - ask for recaptcha (use cookies so you just don't give a
             | poo of their choice - illegal)
             | 
             | - open the doors without captcha resolution (don't need
             | captcha as it can be bypassed)
        
               | anonzzzies wrote:
               | Yes, but because recaptcha is often such a simple
               | integration on 'some page somewhere' it is overlooked. Or
               | people just think 'it is Google, they must have got it
               | covered'.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Using reCaptcha to stop attacks might fall under
               | legitimate concerns, as the site isn't using it to track
               | visitors. If reCaptcha does track, that's Google breaking
               | the law, not the website.
        
           | jddj wrote:
           | Another thing here is more and more creeping into the
           | "legitimate purposes" category.
           | 
           | I installed CalcNote on a new android phone today and had to
           | untick "legitimate uses" for 3 vendors in several places,
           | including Google and Bytedance.
           | 
           | Felt like I needed a shower once I was finished setting it up
           | with the minimal apps that I use
        
       | Onavo wrote:
       | If you want to take a look at a more professional grade tool
       | (used by webscraping companies, with API access), take a look at
       | NopeCha
       | 
       | https://github.com/NopeCHALLC/nopecha-extension
        
       | askvictor wrote:
       | I've found that since switching to Firefox I get a lot more
       | captchas than in Chrome or chromium.
        
         | capitainenemo wrote:
         | It's even worse if you enable Firefox's fingerprinting
         | resistance. For example Drupal.org is essentially unusable with
         | Firefox anti-fingerprinting (even for basic things like patch
         | information). Ditto Zillow.
         | 
         | I have to use a separate "fingerprint me" profile.
        
       | poikroequ wrote:
       | It's interesting to think, using AI to solve captcha requires
       | some compute time, effectively turning captchas into proof of
       | work.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-08-04 23:00 UTC)