[HN Gopher] Show HN: Hanon Pro - piano technique and exercises f...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Hanon Pro - piano technique and exercises for the digital
       age
        
       Author : albertru90
       Score  : 209 points
       Date   : 2024-08-03 05:21 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (furnacecreek.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (furnacecreek.org)
        
       | xlii wrote:
       | This looks fascinating.
       | 
       | Im missing one thing though. Highlight of an app is that it can
       | analyze play from MIDI but being an interested person it
       | immediately pushes me toward "pick a device" which is immediate
       | ehhhh area for myself.
       | 
       | I know there are many and there's personal preferences etc. but I
       | think that (since it's an educational system) there should be
       | kickstart process accessible, i.e. matrix of recommended devices
       | and peripherals (size/price).
        
         | rreyes1979 wrote:
         | Came to ask exactly the same thing. Want to buy one for my kids
         | to practice but I don't have an idea which would be the best
         | given our budget and preferences so a matrix of compatible
         | devices would be great.
        
           | _def wrote:
           | I think it's actually difficult to find a keyboard that does
           | not do USB midi nowadays. What's more important is what keys
           | and keybed you want, it's about being able to comfortably
           | play on the thing, that has not much to do with this app (as
           | at least USB midi is quite universal now, as stated)
        
           | larrysalibra wrote:
           | Just did research into this question...I'm someone that
           | played piano as a child and wanted to get back into it. I
           | wanted to get something that would integrate with apps, good
           | action and sound without making a massive investment in case
           | I don't stick with it. I also wanted something that was small
           | and easy to move.
           | 
           | My digital piano just arrived a few hours ago.
           | 
           | I decided on the Roland FP-30X after trying several models in
           | store.
           | 
           | Pro-tip: many of the big name digital pianos are half the
           | price in the mainland China market than in the rest of the
           | world. Often for an upgraded model as well.
           | 
           | FP-30X was 3850 CNY (~US$550) including the Roland KPD-70
           | three pedal unit and KSC-70 stand. Delivery (to Hong Kong)
           | was ~400 CNY.
           | 
           | Another good option is the FP-18 which is a mainland market-
           | only China model that's an upgrade overthe FP-10 in that it
           | has more sounds and also supports three pedals. It's about
           | ~1200 CNY cheaper than the FP-30X. Downside is slightly
           | inferior sound and speakers compared to FP-30x
           | 
           | I also tried out the Yamaha portables...P-525 was excellent
           | but about 3x the cost of the FP-30x. I didn't really like
           | feel of the action of the cheaper Yamaha (P-225?).
           | 
           | So far FP-30X has been great...the bluetooth MIDI interface
           | and bluetooth interfaces work seamlessly with my iPad. I
           | haven't tried out Hanon Pro yet but it's been really
           | thrilling to try out the various piano learning apps. If I
           | had these back in the 90s, I'd probably be a much better
           | piano player now! Better late than never!
        
             | navbaker wrote:
             | I would highly recommend Pianote if you're looking for an
             | online lessons resource. They have tons of YouTube videos
             | you can check out to see if their style works for you, then
             | you can subscribe to the actual site when you're ready for
             | a more structured learning path. It did wonders for me
             | getting back into piano after a few decades off!
        
               | larrysalibra wrote:
               | Thanks! I've added it to my list to give it a try!
        
           | nh2 wrote:
           | If you want kids to be excited about playing the piano, get a
           | keyboard with light keys like the Yamaha EZ-300.
           | 
           | Combined with a learning software that can control the light
           | (Synthesia, or the one from Yamaha itself, maybe also the one
           | in the original post), it creates a huge amount of fun and
           | motivation. Also works very well for adults.
           | 
           | Keyboards like this do not give you proper hammer-action
           | piano keys, but it makes you discover you /want/ to be a
           | pianist, cheaper and with fun.
           | 
           | (There are also a few hammer-action lit digital pianos but
           | they aren't as fun, and already quite expensive.)
           | 
           | Also consider Synthesia's short list:
           | https://synthesiagame.com/keyboards/info
           | 
           | (I'd get the EZ-300 over the PSR-EW310 listed there for that
           | price class, I believe it didn't exist when that list was
           | written.)
           | 
           | Pop in songs they like (e.g. Disney or Pokemon) from a
           | MuseScore subscription for engagement optimisation ;-)
        
             | mrbombastic wrote:
             | Question from an adult because it seems like you have
             | experience with some of these tools, I've been using
             | SimplyPiano for a few months, which listens to notes you
             | play and gives you feedback, and while it is satisfying to
             | hear the music I can't shake that I am not really learning
             | just copying. For instance I can play some of the advanced
             | songs in the app but I open a piece of sheet music and I am
             | lost. Is there similar concern for synthesia?
        
               | nh2 wrote:
               | Yes, the same concern exists for Synthesia. It teaches a
               | significant amount of muscle memory.
               | 
               | But that is not such a bad thing:
               | 
               | * Muscle memory is part of the game, for any instrument
               | (at least for the ones I know).
               | 
               | * Some of the muscle memory is transferable. For example,
               | when you learn some chords on Synthesia, you can transfer
               | many of them to other parts of the keyboard, also when
               | you're not using the tool.
               | 
               | * For many people, motivation must come first. Learning a
               | piece by muscle memory shows you that you can do it.
               | Wanting to read sheet music naturally follows, from the
               | fact that muscle memory is limited, and to play more
               | stuff.
               | 
               | * Synthesia also teaches rhythm, which some people
               | already have but others don't. You can learn rhythm
               | because Synthesia shows how long each note is, and you
               | can see it coming ahead of time.
               | 
               | * You should learn to read music notation in all cases.
               | Learning the concept only takes 30 seconds: Remember
               | where one note is and do the rest by line counting. The
               | speed of reading will come automatically over time. Then
               | for some songs, enable Synthesia's sheet note display and
               | cover the falling notes from sight. It will show you
               | whether you're reading it correctly. It'll be painfully
               | slow at the beginning but improve over a couple days. It
               | allows you to transfer over to just reading the sheets.
               | Eventually that will become the more convenient way, as
               | the need to download (e.g. from MuseScore and import into
               | Synthesia) disappears; not that it's great effort, but
               | eventually you can just browse easy pieces of sheet music
               | and start playing the ones you like as you see them.
               | 
               | Tools like Synthesia help improve on some of the skill
               | axes; use other methods for the remaining ones.
        
               | ghostpepper wrote:
               | I am an adult who takes beginner lessons from a teacher
               | and he says with new students he often has to undo the
               | "learning" from (sometimes years of) those apps - and it
               | can often be devastating to the ego, especially for kids.
        
               | fma wrote:
               | Im trying to get my daughter (age 8) into piano and I see
               | the same thing echo on Reddit while doing my research.
               | 
               | It's no different than picking up a ball and playing
               | basketball on your own or tennis...or a simple coding
               | book and making a CRUD app without all the best practices
               | or Code Complete and your fancy frameworks.
               | 
               | I got the exact piano op mentioned on prime day for
               | $150?. I have Simply Piano. My daughter will ask to play
               | the "piano game".
               | 
               | Last summer I signed up my daughter for Ukulele class
               | with a teacher. She barely touched outside what was
               | required assignments.
               | 
               | Yes in the perfect world I have a real piano, with a real
               | teacher who is great with kids who makes it so fun my
               | daughter wants to practice everyday.
               | 
               | But I only have one shot to get her hooked and build
               | momentum. IMHO passion comes first, then technique.
               | Passion comes from having fun.
        
         | thibaut_barrere wrote:
         | It is a good point, often raised by people.
         | 
         | I researched that for my sister for instance, and found that
         | this series https://www.thomann.co.uk/kawai_es_120_b.htm is a
         | very good compromise (for < 600EUR).
         | 
         | I consider it is best, though, to try it out a bit at a store
         | to make your own opinion first!
         | 
         | Too low a price -> the pleasure experienced is lower, not
         | flattering and discouraging to the player. But you do not need
         | 1kEUR here either now.
        
         | emmanueloga_ wrote:
         | Studio Logic has a good range of MIDI controllers [1] [2], some
         | of which include built-in audio synthesis, and others just the
         | controller. I think they are very competitive in terms of
         | price. I have a SL88 and the thing is definitely built to last
         | and feels like a real piano keyboard.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | 1: https://studiologic-music.com/products/
         | 
         | 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatar
        
       | benob wrote:
       | Why is it iOS17+ only?
        
         | albertru90 wrote:
         | The app uses recent SwiftUI and SwiftData APIs that are not
         | available on older OSes.
        
       | oellegaard wrote:
       | I'm a beginner on piano/keyboard - been playing daily for a
       | couple of years and I think this would be a great app for me to
       | push myself. However, I mostly play kids songs when my kids are
       | going to sleep and they are mostly Danish.
       | 
       | Would love to see a way to import sheets from my already
       | purchased books.
       | 
       | I realize you earn money for the content but I would happily pay
       | hundred dollars or more for the app if it could just import my
       | existing sheets
        
       | the_gipsy wrote:
       | iOS once touted itself as being honest. Now it doesn't show the
       | price until you install the app?
        
         | yard2010 wrote:
         | Google used to advocate being good (or at least not evil) those
         | days are over a long time ago. Enshitification ensues
        
         | oellegaard wrote:
         | It's free. But it does display the price if it's paid.
         | 
         | If you browse down you'll even see the price for popular in app
         | purchases
        
         | Toutouxc wrote:
         | It still shows everything, the price of the app itself and the
         | prices of all IAPs. The App Store sucks in many wonderful ways,
         | but pricing transparency isn't one of them.
        
         | nxobject wrote:
         | That's a little unwarranted; the App Store has always just said
         | "Install" for free apps since its launch. The price otherwise
         | shows up instead of the "Install" caption.
        
       | rjzzleep wrote:
       | On this note, does anyone know some books in references to
       | applied music theory? I'm a pretty advanced piano player, but a
       | lot of more basic piano players can make up chords to play with
       | with simple tunes that sound pretty good, most of those people
       | seem to know a certain of rules that I don't know. And googling
       | books about piano music on google books or the likes has not
       | yielded any useful results.
        
         | vanjajaja1 wrote:
         | I think what you're describing is the difference between
         | learning by 'top down' thinking (ie. learning what to play) vs
         | learning by experimentation 'bottom up' (ie. mashing random
         | things and making mistakes until you eventually learn to
         | replicate your favourite mistakes)
         | 
         | what helped me was to imagine charlie day from its always in
         | sunny in philadelphia saying "idk man, the piano just speaks to
         | me", then I pretend to be a rainman style idiot-savant piano
         | player until it starts to sound good
        
           | ToJans wrote:
           | I'm not well versed in this, but I have the basics down:
           | start by finding the bass notes, and add the melody on top.
           | Most of the time the a musical phrase will end on the note
           | that's in the key of the song. Combine the bass note with the
           | third and fifth, and you're already halfway there...
           | 
           | Typical chord combinations are in the 1-4-5-6, so when the
           | key is in C, for the first chord (I) you start on the C, skip
           | one, E, skip one and then G. These 3 notes compose the first
           | chord. To get the second chord, just move your fingers one
           | key to the right.
           | 
           | A major scale in C contains the following chords if you move
           | your 1-3-5 grip one key to the right each time:
           | 
           | - I: C (C-E-G)
           | 
           | - ii: Dm (D-F-A)
           | 
           | - iii: Em (E-G-B)
           | 
           | - IV: F (F-A-C)
           | 
           | - V: G (G-B-D)
           | 
           | - vi: Am (A-C-E)
           | 
           | - vii: Bdim (B-D-F)
           | 
           | Capital roman numerals indicate major chords (happy-ish),
           | lowercase indicate minor (sad-ish).
           | 
           | Just try a few combos of I, IV, V and vi with your right
           | hand, while hitting the first note of the chord with your
           | bass.
           | 
           | You will instantly come to a few recognisable tunes.
           | 
           | Up next is transposing scales: move every note two half steps
           | up to get to a major scale in the key of D for example.
           | 
           | Another handy trick is inversions: look at the individual
           | notes in a chord and when switching from one chord to
           | another, minimize have movement by playing some of the notes
           | an octave higher or lower.
           | 
           | This is just the start, but it should help you a long way to
           | play list of the simple pop songs.
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | I learnt with a college music theory textbook. Without that,
         | it's all just meaningless rules "just because".
         | 
         | Music Theory Remixed by Kevin Holm-Hudson is great, accessible
         | but pretty long. Still, I finally understand music theory more
         | or less.
        
         | klimperfix wrote:
         | If you want to go in the jazz direction, the Jazz Piano Book by
         | Mark Levine [1] is great! It has everything a jazz player needs
         | to know, from II - V - I voicings to scales, upper structures,
         | etc.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jazz_Piano_Book
        
           | nxobject wrote:
           | Oscar Peterson has a nice series of etude books, too - it's
           | not an exhaustive course, but he was a great pedagogue and
           | expositor, and he really did care about the classical
           | training he got as a wee one.
        
             | rjzzleep wrote:
             | Both helpful, thanks for sharing.
        
         | brcmthrowaway wrote:
         | What are some good books for composing music using DAWs?
        
       | vanjajaja1 wrote:
       | nice, i was just day dreaming about a similar concept of
       | collecting midi data to create fitness style visualization
       | 
       | what would be helpful for a beginner/intermediate is if i could
       | practice my scales and chords, without first telling this app
       | what i'm doing, then this app could track which scales / chords /
       | etc i spent most time in and where my deficiencies/gaps are
        
       | court-jus wrote:
       | It would be awesome if the file format was open and anyone could
       | add their own scores to the app...
        
         | adrianh wrote:
         | Try Soundslice, which lets you import any sheet music. It has a
         | PDF/photo-scanning feature plus an entire sheet music editor
         | built-in.
         | 
         | https://www.soundslice.com/
         | 
         | I've been working on it full-time for nearly 12 years now.
         | 
         | It doesn't do the "listen to your performance" thing -- maybe
         | someday. But the other bits, such as practice tracking and
         | interactive sheet music features, are all there.
        
           | namanyayg wrote:
           | While trying to learn Playing God a couple of weeks ago, I
           | had a desire to loop certain parts and play them with reduced
           | tempo.
           | 
           | I thought I'll have to dev something myself.
           | 
           | But I googled and discovered SoundSlice.
           | 
           | My practice technique has changed, I'm learning superfast
           | thanks to SoundSlice. I play it on a tablet I've got a tripod
           | in my playing area.
           | 
           | It's awesome to see the creator here, I didn't know that it's
           | been going on since 12 years.
           | 
           | And I learnt that you're the co-creator of Django as well,
           | it's cool to have the product from an indie dev vs an
           | (enshittification loving) corp.
           | 
           | Just wanted to say thanks for your great work, your app has
           | really made it much easier for me to learn faster tracks!
        
             | adrianh wrote:
             | Hey, that's lovely to hear! Thanks for taking the time to
             | share your story.
             | 
             | That's exactly my colleagues and I work on this -- for
             | outcomes like yours. Keep making music my friend.
        
       | smokel wrote:
       | Looks nice, but after downloading it, I was a bit disappointed. I
       | mistakenly assumed that this would compare to something like
       | Alfred's Adult Piano Courses [1], but it's much simpler than
       | that.
       | 
       | Personally, I doubt that is wise to charge money for this. Sure,
       | you put in some work, but the value is fairly low, and you'd
       | probably only get payments from disappointed customers.
       | 
       | Edit: apparently the added value comes from using a MIDI device,
       | which I don't have, so my comment might be a bit too negative.
       | Most piano apps support microphone input, which is easier to set
       | up and attracts a larger audience.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.alfred.com/alfreds-adult-piano-courses/b/
        
       | FLT8 wrote:
       | I tried it, I guess I'm your target market, I'm relatively new to
       | keyboard, trying to learn, and do happen to have a Bluetooth MIDI
       | adapter.
       | 
       | A few notes and observations from a quick trial run below:
       | 
       | - the app crashed out a few times when connecting to my MIDI
       | controller (a Yamaha MD-BT01 dongle that plugs into the old
       | school MIDI plugs on the keyboard). Not sure what's going on
       | there, but it happened a few times. - the feedback given seemed
       | quite helpful, I like that wrong notes were highlighted, and it
       | seemed to do well at ignoring a false-start that I made while
       | trying it out. - I would have liked if the playback functionality
       | supported MIDI too; I play with headphones on and it's a bit
       | weird (and annoying for other people in the house) if the
       | playback comes out of the iPad. - I would also like the ability
       | to start from a bar of my choice and maybe even evaluate a one or
       | two bar section at a time rather than having to play the whole
       | piece
       | 
       | On the whole though I think it's a good app, and I intend to use
       | it more. I don't share the concerns of others about the price of
       | the sheet music, I think your pricing is reasonable, and assume
       | it takes some effort for you to translate into a form that can be
       | used.
       | 
       | Well done, thanks for sharing.
        
         | DidYaWipe wrote:
         | "I like that wrong notes were highlighted"
         | 
         | This is such a fundamental feature that is glaringly absent
         | from so much (most?) music-instruction software. I don't want
         | to know only that I missed some of the notes; I want to see WTF
         | I actually played, so I can adjust accordingly!
        
         | albertru90 wrote:
         | Thank you for the feedback. The crashes should be fixed in the
         | 1.0.2 update rolling out today. If you have any additional
         | feedback as you use the app more, please email us.
        
       | spapas82 wrote:
       | For reference "Hanon" is a classic book of piano exercises that
       | improve the velocity of the pianist. It is like 150 years old but
       | still heavily used everyday by a lot of professional pianists:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtuoso_Pianist_in_60_E...
        
         | oriolid wrote:
         | It is also widely criticized by professional piano teachers
         | (see the link above), and for good reasons.
        
           | wccrawford wrote:
           | That's not strong opposition there. One basically says it's
           | boring, and the other says that only a certain technique can
           | ever be good, and then it isn't even cited.
        
             | kashunstva wrote:
             | Professional pianist here. They are boring but that's
             | hardly the biggest issue with Hanon, unfortunately. The
             | biggest problem is the instructions that the composer
             | leaves for the student, which includes the insistence that
             | the student lift the finger high off the keyboard with each
             | note.
             | 
             | I can think of practically nothing more injurious to good
             | technique and nothing more likely to induce tension than
             | this.
             | 
             | Hanon could have some value if teachers and students would
             | employ the concept of weight transfer from finger to finger
             | with constant contact with the keyboard. But his idea of
             | finger calisthenics is a relic of the 19th c.
        
               | solarengineer wrote:
               | Are there any exercise books or videos or schools that
               | teach this concept of weight transfer that you speak of?
               | 
               | I am a one-finger pianist at the moment.
        
               | alfiedotwtf wrote:
               | Literally the Hanon set of books will teach you this :)
               | 
               | But if you're a hunt-and-peck for piano, I would
               | recommend stop what you're doing and go back to the very
               | beginning and relearn everything properly so that you
               | don't have any bad habits.
               | 
               | As for other resources, this app looks like a good bet!
        
               | sixo wrote:
               | No they don't teach this, that's the problem! The
               | exercises are good but the right technique is v different
               | from what Hanon describes.
        
               | lioeters wrote:
               | > one-finger pianist
               | 
               | That reminds me there are people who type on the
               | (computer) keyboard with two fingers, searching for each
               | key and pecking at it. I was fortunate to have "blind
               | typing" classes as a child, including a fun game where
               | you type to shoot at words falling on a city. That skill
               | has been really valuable over the years.
               | 
               | I wonder if there are similar concepts for learning to
               | play on the piano keyboard, like "blind" playing to learn
               | where the notes are without even looking; or games where
               | you can practice playing melodies. Even the idea of
               | "weight transfer" seems related to computer keyboard,
               | like typing without lifting your fingers too high.
        
               | sixo wrote:
               | It's subtle and best learned with a good (expensive,
               | unfortunately) teacher. It's worth it, even for just a
               | few lessons.
        
               | domharries wrote:
               | A good teacher is definitely best, but I found the book
               | "The Foundations of Technique" by Murray McLachlan very
               | useful.
        
               | vunderba wrote:
               | The taubman technique explores the practical aspects of
               | piano playing from an "ergonomics first" set of
               | principles and is highly recommend it if you can get any
               | of Golandsky's videos. Unfortunately, it's one of those
               | techniques that can be difficult to learn theoretically,
               | and you may need a teacher to be able to guide you
               | through the movements.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | My piano teacher uses the Hanon for warmup, and it does
               | seem to help train the fingers. We have never looked at
               | the instructions, I didn't know it recommended this. It
               | seems painful. Instead, she gives rhythms to follow,
               | there's also one exercise consisting in accentuating
               | times.
               | 
               | I guess it can (should) be used like this: keep the
               | scores, disregard the instructions, add your own
               | exercises on top of the scores.
               | 
               | I do find it a bit boring, but it seems it makes sense to
               | warm up before playing and to strengthen the fingers /
               | hands (although I have no evidence of this whatsoever). I
               | guess warming up also helps moving your focus from
               | whatever you were doing to the piano.
               | 
               | What other ways do pianists use for this?
        
               | oriolid wrote:
               | Playing scales and arpeggios is one common warmup. For
               | practicing technique, there lots and lots of etudes by
               | Czerny, Burgmuller and others that have copyright
               | expired.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | I played a lot of Hanon as a teenager, and I confess that
               | I never read the instructions. It does appear to get
               | results in terms of strengthening your fingers and
               | getting you used to specific patterns of movement.
               | 
               | A couple of piano teachers suggested reading stuff while
               | doing Hanon, and apparently Liszt was known to do that.
        
               | kaidon wrote:
               | > practically nothing more injurious to good technique
               | and nothing more likely to induce tension than this.
               | 
               | Oh my goodness yes. I started playing on January and
               | followed the Hanon instructions with the sheets. I have
               | been trying to release tension, especially around my
               | flying pinky... and realized that this way of playing
               | Hanon was making it worse. I am in the process of fixing
               | this now, and am enjoying less tension.
        
               | localfirst wrote:
               | The purpose of Hanon is to build muscles into typically
               | weaker fingers like the fourth and fifth. The exaggerated
               | movements are specifically designed to build memory
               | muscle and power.
               | 
               | Hanon is battle tested and all the great virtuoso have
               | gone through it whether they like it or not.
               | 
               | The problem with modern apps and paid learning online is
               | the idea that the boring and hard parts can be skipped
               | with some clever marketing.
               | 
               | If this was true then we would be churning out new
               | pianists at faster rate but its falling but the age is
               | dropping
        
               | oriolid wrote:
               | > and all the great virtuoso have gone through it whether
               | they like it or not.
               | 
               | It would be interesting to see some citations about this.
               | 
               | > If this was true then we would be churning out new
               | pianists at faster rate but its falling but the age is
               | dropping
               | 
               | I suspect that these days people are smart enough to ask
               | _why_ should new pianists be churned out and is there
               | something more valuable these people could do with their
               | time.
        
       | lukko wrote:
       | This is great. Can you please add Czerny?
        
         | albertru90 wrote:
         | Added to the list.
        
       | manojlds wrote:
       | No Vision Pro?
        
       | nxobject wrote:
       | As an aside, thanks for making the app available for desktop Mac,
       | even if it of course isn't explicitly designed for it. I think
       | most people overestimate how many people have iPads around; I was
       | never quite able to justify purchasing one given the price-how
       | much I'll use it ratio.
        
         | albertru90 wrote:
         | We would love to do a more native Mac app if this takes off.
         | Glad you're interested in it.
        
       | jocoda wrote:
       | Disappointed. The App Store tells me that the app will run on my
       | IPad, an older model, just out of support and waits for me to
       | click install before it tells me it wants iOS 17.
       | 
       | Pity, this would be a great use for an older model.
       | 
       | Is there a reason to hard wire this to iOS 17? Version is
       | configurable in xCode and so I'm wondering what specifics bind it
       | to 17.
        
       | jmdots wrote:
       | How about an LLM that talks to you and can see the midi notes you
       | played, fine tuned to the task of course. I think the teacher
       | part of learning pretty much anything is super important because
       | we're social beings. Hearing "great job" is priceless when you
       | really did your best.
        
         | dragandj wrote:
         | Then skip the LLM part and just add random "great job" here and
         | there.
        
           | jmdots wrote:
           | I think I understated the social part. Talking to a teacher
           | is part of it. Not just the gamification.
        
       | roessland wrote:
       | Awesome, I'll definitely try it.
       | 
       | I've been paying for Piano Marvel for a few years, and there is
       | tons of room for improvement in this space:
       | 
       | - Native, non-janky app. Ideally cross-platform.
       | 
       | - More inspiring music in lessons.
       | 
       | - Recommendation algorithm for what piece/lesson to practice
       | next.
       | 
       | - More methods of measuring progress over time.
       | 
       | - Spaced repetition for sight reading, technique, scales, ear
       | training, sections of known pieces.
       | 
       | - Splitting pieces automatically into overlapping sections to
       | practice, RH, LH and hands together (whatever makes sense).
       | 
       | - Simple streaming/recording features for use with piano lessons
       | over video chat (screen/video/audio mixed together to a single
       | stream?).
       | 
       | - Show music theory concepts based on what you are playing, in
       | the context of the current piece. E.g. what chord is being
       | played, and its function. Possible continuations.
       | 
       | My setup is a Macbook + FP-30 + USB midi cable. Having the laptop
       | standing on top of the piano makes keyboard and touch pad usage
       | clunky, so navigation must be simple. Also uploading custom
       | scores is a must for me.
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | It doesn't have most of what you say, but it does let you
         | practice on custom scores (midi files), so maybe it can be part
         | of the solution:
         | 
         | https://www.pianojacq.com/
         | 
         | (open source, from jacquesm here)
        
       | darylteo wrote:
       | I've definitely thought about how one goes about coding an
       | intelligent agent that can identify what you're playing and the
       | make accurate guesses about where in the piece you're playing.
       | 
       | The player could make mistakes as well, which means any
       | intelligent algorithm would need to apply some degree of
       | probabilistic calculations to find the most likely point.
       | 
       | Very often, when practising, you'd constantly repeat passages
       | multiple times. And certain passages may also be exactly the same
       | in different parts of the piece as well.
       | 
       | To me it sounds like a incredibly difficult problem to solve. Not
       | sure if the recent AI advances change anything.
        
         | smokel wrote:
         | There are multiple parts to this problem, but it seems quite
         | doable.
         | 
         | Shazam can do generic look-up of music since around 2003, see
         | for example this page on abracadabra [1].
         | 
         | I'd guess that if you limit things to a piano, one could
         | relatively easily find the notes being played with some Fourier
         | magic, and then solve a Hidden Markov Model to find the most
         | plausible position in the music. Using a MIDI interface makes
         | it even simpler.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.cameronmacleod.com/blog/how-does-shazam-work
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | Yo, OP.
       | 
       | That's your third post on HN in two years. All posts are promo,
       | and yet you made not a single comment.
       | 
       | If you are doing a "Show HN", it wouldn't hurt to engage with
       | people a little. Otherwise it looks like a low effort drive-by ad
       | and not much else.
        
         | Xeyz0r wrote:
         | And here it is highly valued and can help you more
        
       | Xeyz0r wrote:
       | Being able to track progress over time gives me the motivation to
       | keep going..
        
       | dfee wrote:
       | I'm a father of two children, a nine and two year old, and none
       | of us know how to play piano. I did play a woodwind for five
       | years in and out of school, and did extracurricular music for
       | many years - even from a young age.
       | 
       | Now, I'd like my son to learn piano as his first instrument. I
       | imagine the theory and complexity of chords thrust on the pianist
       | must be a good foundation for music in general - certainly I'm
       | fine with my kids departures to any other instrument and mastery
       | isn't itself the goal.
       | 
       | Is this app the right tool? It doesn't explicitly market to this
       | segment. However, there are a number of other apps out there I've
       | considered as well, including PianoMarvel mentioned elsewhere.
       | 
       | Surely, 1:1 lessons will be recommended - and I imagine they have
       | their place - but I'd prefer to lean a bit harder into self-
       | guided / app-guided and augment with a human tutor as necessary.
       | My experience was that my tutored sessions were a bit wasteful (I
       | wasn't a disciplined student, and certainly wasted a lot of time
       | and money).
       | 
       | My ideal setup is either an iMac or iPad and an electric piano.
        
         | tejohnso wrote:
         | I suggest an electronic keyboard with weighted keys and the
         | free Mayron Cole lesson books.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | The teacher isn't there to teach - you could do that on your
         | own with enough time and energy. The teacher is there to
         | preserve your passion by making sure you don't get bogged down
         | in easily-fixable troughs. They will hopefully have knowledge
         | of music such that you're always excited to play something new
         | rather than feeling like you have to dig through a composer's
         | works to find something worthwhile. They provide accountability
         | for your practice and validation for when you do well.
         | 
         | Ideally, you should use yourself as a guinea pig to test out
         | the teachers in your city to find one that's best for your
         | kids. In reality, dumping your two-year-old on your wife to do
         | that sucks for both of you. Your local music shop can help
         | steer you away from teachers with bad reputations in your city.
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/@cedarvillemusic?si=BiZ9tF9fYcEkxcMw
         | 
         | This guy has thorough answers to questions no one wants to ask
         | (e.g. Are my hands too small? What if I'm playing for others
         | and I forget how the piece goes? Why does improvisation feel
         | impossible to understand? How long should I practice? Should my
         | hands hurt?).
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20200118023642/https://howmusicw...
         | 
         | This is the best explanation of music theory I've found and
         | I've looked everywhere.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/wiki/core/modes/
         | 
         | The FAQ on the music theory Reddit has answers to questions
         | that are largely impossible to find elsewhere. "What are
         | modes?" is one of those questions.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | In nearly any instrument it's very important to get the
         | technique right from the start. It's incredibly easy to catch
         | bad habits which then are much more difficult to unlearn, and
         | will make your progress much slower and frustrating. So
         | actually it's the other way around: pay a teacher to help him
         | start, correct his posture/technique/etc, then later on you can
         | wean off and continue on your own :)
        
       | localfirst wrote:
       | There's an idea that an app can replace the boring and hard. For
       | somethings that may be true but piano proficiency is sight
       | reading and muscle memory. This is something you cannot speed
       | run.
       | 
       | The purpose of Hanon is to teach aspiring pianists that real
       | effort and grinding is required to be able to make that jump into
       | the world of virtuoso and the more resistance a student puts up
       | the greater the probability of them dropping out.
       | 
       | I'm just throwing my two cents as a someone trained in classical
       | piano. Coding is also similar in that if you skip the tough and
       | boring part of your journey it will not set you up with the solid
       | fundamentals to tackle complicated problems.
       | 
       | Mastering a piece is not that different from mastering
       | programming.
        
       | brcmthrowaway wrote:
       | I remember there was a strange PDF of learning piano floating
       | around back in the day by a simple father. Was written in MS word
       | .. did anyone ever try it?
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | Are you thinking of "Fundamentals of Piano Practice" by Chang
         | [1]?
         | 
         | [1] http://www.pianopractice.org/
        
       | peteforde wrote:
       | About a week ago, I started practicing daily with an app called
       | Melodics. This is after putting off starting for, well, my whole
       | life.
       | 
       | Hot damn, I can play [a bit of?] piano now. I am genuinely
       | shocked and couldn't be more excited.
       | 
       | Here's the thing: the app kind of flips the script on what I have
       | always intuitively felt holds most musical teaching approaches
       | back, which is the insistance that you want to play classical
       | sheet music.
       | 
       | I very much do not want that! I want to be able to learn to be
       | comfortable jumping to notes so that I can play contemporary,
       | recognizable songs and eventually start to craft my own
       | originals. I want to think in terms of bass lines, melodies and
       | leads.
       | 
       | I think classical music is beautiful to hear in the abstract, but
       | the idea that it's how or why you want to be able to play
       | keyboard is actually super fatal, especially if you want to
       | engage a young person.
       | 
       | What I'm finding as I work through exercises and practice on
       | songs I either love or recognize is that my awful sense of timing
       | is improving noticably every day because I know how Hey Ya! is
       | supposed to _feel_ , and so long as it feels wrong, my brain and
       | my fingers have a target to work towards.
       | 
       | And let me just say that the gamification works. Sure, getting
       | 90% or more will earn you three stars, but if you're like me, you
       | want to see a wall of Perfect.
       | 
       | Anyhow, I don't dispute that when it comes to learning classical
       | music from sheet, Hanon Pro probably raises the bar. But my
       | immediate and visceral reaction to the screenshot was a hard
       | nope.
        
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