[HN Gopher] Hackberry-Pi_Zero - A handheld Linux terminal using ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hackberry-Pi_Zero - A handheld Linux terminal using Raspberry Pi
       Zero 2W
        
       Author : felixr
       Score  : 558 points
       Date   : 2024-08-02 13:34 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | more_corn wrote:
       | This is super neat! Well done. Very well done. I love the dual
       | battery, hard power switch, good keyboard.
       | 
       | I know how hard it is to do these right and I'm impressed.
        
       | atrus wrote:
       | This is one of the very few Cyberdeck kinda things that looks
       | like it could be actually useful. I love it!
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | I have a vague idea of what my ideal Cyberdeck would be, no
         | idea if there's anything like this already:
         | 
         | One of those super-wide small screens, 1920x720 or thereabouts,
         | with the screen split into 2 terminals. Since I'm wishing, I'd
         | also like that screen to have a 300 to 600ppi e-ink screen
         | built in to a layer, so that when the colour screen is off, the
         | e-ink is visible.
         | 
         | A PC, x86_64 or arm64, built into the screen, with lots of
         | ports, IO, compatible with Pi hats/shields. For extra coolness,
         | a pluggable system like Framework so if someone wants a real
         | RS232 port, they can get one. With USB-C power so I can use any
         | powerbank or other compatible power supply.
         | 
         | A Keychron lightweight Alice-style keyboard, folding a bonus,
         | QMK mandatory, standard bluetooth and/or USB.
        
       | swores wrote:
       | I wasn't expecting to see buy now links, so I wasn't too
       | disappointed when I did see them but found they both say out of
       | stock - was completely ready to impulse buy the BB Q20 keyboard
       | version (or either, really!) and hope that having registered to
       | hear it more being sold I'll be able to get one.
       | 
       | I'd almost be tempted to try to put one together myself, but it's
       | not something I'd find particularly easy and there's other stuff
       | I'd rather spend time on. But might be tempted...
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Stock ETA is 1 or 2 weeks, depending on model.
        
           | swores wrote:
           | Yep thanks, I'm indeed hoping to take advantage of that!
           | 
           | But I have a sneaking suspicion it won't be a big enough
           | quantity to satisfy even the people who've seen this HN
           | submission so may well come down to what time of day / how
           | quickly I see the email
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | Both models say "Sold out since Aug 02". If all the
             | existing stock was bought by HN readers today, then 1-2
             | weeks isn't bad for the next batch, and today's waitlist
             | can influence batch size. There seem to be lots of BB
             | keyboards on Amazon, so hopefully the constraint is funding
             | and manufacturing, not components. Lots of demand from HN
             | can only help with funding!
        
               | swores wrote:
               | I saw this thread almost immediately after it was posted
               | and both versions were already out of stock when I got to
               | those pages minutes later, so my assumption was that
               | there either were very few devices (just a couple of
               | PoCs) or that sales had come from somewhere other than
               | HN, either way leaving the majority of people who want to
               | buy it from seeing this thread on the waiting list with
               | me.
               | 
               | Though maybe I'm wrong about how popular it will be, and
               | actually only the handful of people who've explicitly
               | commented about wanting to buy it, like me, will have
               | joined the waiting list and some may then decide not to
               | buy it having slept on it - but it's definitely possible
               | that lots of people are looking forward to getting one or
               | more!)
               | 
               | I also assumed that it was a fairly DYI project done by a
               | single founder (DYI as in him making them himself one by
               | one, rather than having either a team or an outsourced
               | factory ready to scale up to meet whatever demand is on
               | the waiting list), but again I may be guessing wrong (or
               | may have forgotten something they wrote that shows I'm
               | wrong), but it's a few hours past my bedtime so I'll just
               | hope that when I wake up they might have replied to my
               | message asking if I could reserve one rather than spend
               | more time guessing about their production capacity :D )
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | If it used the Blackberry Passport format (and screen) I'd love
       | it even more.
        
       | anonzzzies wrote:
       | Shame it's not available for purchase at the moment. Would like
       | one.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | https://www.tindie.com/products/zitaotech/hackberrypi-cyberd...
         | More HackPi Q10 will be restock within 5 days.        More
         | HackPi Q20 will be restock in 2 weeks.
        
           | anonzzzies wrote:
           | Oh thanks, I missed that. Didn't know this site.
        
       | dchuk wrote:
       | This form factor is so tempting. I've gotten close to pulling the
       | trigger on the minimal phone like 5 times but just don't know if
       | I can actually reasonably switch from my iPhone and not end up
       | annoyed with the change (https://www.minimalcompany.com/).
       | 
       | But a calm, keyboard oriented device just seems great.
        
         | smashah wrote:
         | The N900 (or N810) form factor is also great, especially for
         | CLI commands/coding.
         | 
         | There was a team trying to bring it back to life (neo900)
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | I wonder if simply adding one of these ESP with GSM builtin would
       | turn this into a practical linux phone.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | You'd need an additionnal micro and speaker, or at least some
         | usb-c headset but yeah this give some ideas.
         | 
         | Also battery life would probably sink.
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | The GPIO port is accessible under the back cover so I could
         | easily see add-on modules that could piggyback on. Design a
         | small backpack to use the existing latch, add some tiny pogo
         | pins and the module could be easily swapped out. A lorawan
         | transceiver and a GPS receiver would be an excellent pair.
        
         | hawski wrote:
         | Unfortunately advertised battery life isn't practical. Though
         | maybe with software enchantments it could get there.
        
       | notpeter wrote:
       | Very similar to the Beepberry. Exciting to see someone else
       | building into that form factor. Also love to fun to see the Nokia
       | BL-5C battery (originally introduced in the Nokia 3650 in 2003)
       | still alive and kicking 20years later.
       | 
       | https://blog.beeper.com/2023/05/16/beeper-x-sqmfi-beepberry/
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | That appears to have been renamed to the Beepy, and the product
         | page now has the repurposed Blackberry keyboard blurred out.
         | Did whoever owns the corpse of Blackberry go after them for
         | trademark infringement?
         | 
         | https://beepy.sqfmi.com/
        
           | itomato wrote:
           | Is this when they start pre installing QNX?
           | https://carleton.ca/rcs/qnx/installing-qnx-on-raspberry-
           | pi-4...
        
       | ntw1103 wrote:
       | Looks super awesome. I've been slowly working towards building
       | pretty much the same thing, but haven't had enough time to
       | finish. I added myself to the wait list. Intend to purchase 3 if
       | I'm able to. Getting everything into such a nice packet is very
       | cool.
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | Wow this is amazing it's the best cyber deck I have ever seen or
       | would consider using. I wonder if you could get rid of one
       | battery and shove in a 4g LTE modem connected to a usb port.
        
       | anotherjesse wrote:
       | Has anyone built something like this in the hiptop/sidekick
       | format?
       | 
       | If not, this might be a good second option for hacking together a
       | chat device for LLMs with notes
       | 
       | I had been thinking about using
       | https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck as a base - but prefer
       | using Linux to microcontrollers
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | I miss my Hiptop(s). Nothing has come close to that experience
         | since. I could carry on 10 AIM conversations, IRC, and be doing
         | browsing and email while typing at ~100 WPM.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | It looks neat.
       | 
       | It is a shame, though, to use an RPi and not exploit the GPIO
       | pins a little more. Maybe add a slot on the side to fit some
       | probes or something?
       | 
       | I guess the Pi is all digital anyway so maybe the pins are not
       | _as_ interesting...
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | It has DAC/ADC ports, I suppose.
        
         | boguscoder wrote:
         | Pins are still pretty handy though. Tangential to the OPs use
         | case, but I use my Zero 2 as a debug probe (with openocd) for
         | few MCUs (mostly Pi Pico), and it comes out $$$ cheaper than
         | JLink's official one and analogs
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Is there a page where they describe where they sourced the
       | components, e.g. screen and keyboard?
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Amazon has vendors listing BB Q10 parts, including keyboard and
         | LCD for < $20,
         | https://www.amazon.com/s?k=blackberry+q10+keyboard+replaceme...
         | 
         | Fairberry has a PCB design for adding Q10 keyboard to any
         | mobile phone with a USB port,
         | https://github.com/Dakkaron/Fairberry
        
       | keheliya wrote:
       | Amazing! How hard will it be to replace the screen to an eInk one
       | similar to the beepberry/beepy? I love everything except the
       | screen, and I assume eInk will be the perfect match considering
       | the terminal and power consumption.
        
       | afandian wrote:
       | I bought the Bluetooth keyboard from this maker, ZitaoTech. The
       | fit and finish was excellent. Highly recommended.
        
         | henearkr wrote:
         | So it's a recently made clone of the keyboard, rather than an
         | original one?
         | 
         | The readme is unclear on this subject, they advertise "original
         | keyboard".
        
           | afandian wrote:
           | To be clear I mean this:
           | https://www.tindie.com/products/zitaotech/blackberry-
           | bb9900-...
           | 
           | It's an original new old stock BlackBerry keyboard, packaged
           | in a good 3d printed case with Bluetooth, USB and battery
           | charger.
        
             | henearkr wrote:
             | Oh ok! Thanks.
        
       | 83457 wrote:
       | Looks like it could be a great pocket device for pico-8
       | development.
        
         | grugagag wrote:
         | That's my thoughts as well. I ordered a uConsole from
         | clockworkPI, long waitlist there. This is tempting me again. I
         | feel this may have even better ergonomic qualitty for my
         | personal taste and appeara more portable.
        
           | 83457 wrote:
           | Every time I see a little game/dev device with a square
           | screen I think about pico-8.
           | 
           | The devterm looks like it could be a good device too as you
           | could have pico-8 running on one side with code editor taking
           | up the rest of the screen.
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XC5lC9nGWM
        
           | ngcc_hk wrote:
           | Order one. Dead on arrival. Gave up. Now may think to savage
           | at least the rpi ...
        
             | grugagag wrote:
             | Sorry to hear. How many months after you ordered it did you
             | actually receive it? Im taking a gamble on this but wasn't
             | aware they do no testing before shipping.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | There's a _waitlist_ for the uconsole? I was planning to buy
           | one but that made me reconsider.
        
       | joemazerino wrote:
       | Awesome work.
       | 
       | Know any surplus stores that carry BB keyboards?
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41139869
        
       | neon_me wrote:
       | Would love to see "real phone" version w gsm/lte module and at
       | least a day lasting battery (optimization)
        
         | oneplane wrote:
         | Isn't that what the PinePhone and Librem 5 are? They don't have
         | an embedded physical keyboard and do have a touchscreen, so the
         | physical features are slightly different, but otherwise they
         | are still a mobile ARM linux computer.
        
           | Y_Y wrote:
           | The touchscreen is a big difference though. You need to run
           | some kind of graphical environment to handle the touch input
           | and then it's slow and you have a crappy keyboard. I love my
           | pinephone, but even with sxmo I find it unresponsive and
           | hard.to work on. The keyboard shell for the pinephone is
           | good, but changes the form factor then.
        
             | tetris11 wrote:
             | Nokia N900 has a pinephone port
        
       | wifipunk wrote:
       | I've been wanting to build my own handheld ever since I picked up
       | a 3d printer so the last few months I've been checking these
       | builds out. The blackberry keyboard is my favorite part of the
       | build, definitely going to do the same for mine. Looks great with
       | the casing.
        
         | deepspace wrote:
         | I am working on the same kind of thing. For me the ideal
         | keybaord/screen combination was the Keyboard Featherwing from
         | Adafruit https://www.adafruit.com/product/4818 . Unfortunately,
         | it is a discontinued product. I managed to snag one of the last
         | ones, but I am reluctant to use something that I cannot get any
         | more of.
        
       | starik36 wrote:
       | There is also the Tindie Null 2 kit - it's built around Rapsberry
       | Pi Zero 2W. I picked one up several years ago and built a gameboy
       | replacement of sorts. It was a lot of fun. Lots of soldering.
       | 
       | https://www.tindie.com/products/ampersand/null-2-kit/
        
       | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
       | Oh great! Another awesome looking cyberdeck that I want to own
       | and will find absolutely no practical use for.
       | 
       | I've added myself to the waitlist already.
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | See I do have a use for this kind of thing, but not exactly. I
         | have a few desktop towers and Raspberry Pi devices that
         | sometimes due to upgrades or random acts of Zeus absolutely
         | fail to boot up. I want some ability to connect a keyboard and
         | a screen to these so I can see the actual boot screen. Normally
         | for me this involves lugging the device to my office and
         | connecting it to my office monitor and keyboard which is highly
         | inconvenient given that some are in the attic. Instead I want a
         | small screen and keyboard in one device I can hook up to an
         | HDMI or VGA or mini HDMI or just a serial port + USB for
         | keyboard. Something lightweight I can carry anywhere.
         | 
         | And no that doesn't need its own computer but it might be nice
         | to have one to be able to hook it up to the network and
         | download and transfer files to the broken machine or be able to
         | download and quickly boot off a rescue image or some such.
         | 
         | These are rare enough problems that I don't actually bother
         | building a device like that but every time they do happen I
         | wish I did.
        
           | T3OU-736 wrote:
           | I _think_ you are describing (minus the screen) what a PiKVM
           | and similar would give you.
        
             | rft wrote:
             | I can confirm that getting a PiKVM has very much eliminated
             | lugging around my server or a screen. Having some form of
             | display input would be the one feature I would wish to add
             | if given the choice. Not having HDMI-In, e.g. via capture
             | card, makes sense in this form factor and power budget, but
             | would make this an instant buy for me. I would really enjoy
             | having a small, very portable device to debug things with.
             | 
             | I recently got linked to a CCTV tester [1] that at least
             | handles the display part. Sadly it does not seem to have
             | keyboard emulation. It might be possible to hack this in as
             | this is an Android tablet at its core and the USB
             | controller might support gadget mode.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.rsrteng.com/products/ipc-9800movtadhs-pro
        
           | password4321 wrote:
           | I too have this use case troubleshooting headless computers
           | around the house. I saw an ad for https://www.aurga.com and
           | bought one for $84. It connects to an app on my Android phone
           | as display, keyboard, and mouse. Minor discussion 7 months
           | ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38609526
           | 
           | Long ago I bought a mini keyboard + mouse combo for input;
           | the custom wireless USB dongle edition I have (strongly
           | preferred over Bluetooth when troubleshooting) is no longer
           | for sale. https://amzn.com/dp/B00I5SW8MC
        
             | shepherdjerred wrote:
             | Logitech has similar devices. This isn't the one I own, but
             | it's close.
             | 
             | https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-
             | Touchpad-P...
        
               | rft wrote:
               | I have that keyboard and gifted one to my parents. Our
               | use case is the odd chance you need to input text or use
               | a browser on a Smart TV. Works so much faster than the on
               | screen keyboard. With many Smart TVs just being Android
               | under the hood, it just works.
               | 
               | I find for server troubleshooting, I usually have no
               | problem grabbing a random USB keyboard. The bigger
               | problem is finding a screen at a convenient location and
               | connecting that one. It often was easier to carry my
               | server to the screen instead of the other way.
               | 
               | On the topic of niche input methods, I also have an "air
               | mouse" [1] with a full keyboard on the back for my Kodi
               | system or when connecting my desktop to the TV. I
               | essentially never need to use it, but it has come in
               | handy.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0B1HKWFQV
        
               | rahimnathwani wrote:
               | The iPad now supports external webcams, so you can use a
               | $5 HDMI capture card (and the free Genki Studio app) to
               | turn it into a monitor.
        
               | CitrusFruits wrote:
               | I have one of these and it's great for this sort of
               | thing. The whole keyboard runs off one AA battery which
               | lasts forever, and it even has a storage spot for the USB
               | dongle.
        
             | rft wrote:
             | This looks quite interesting, thanks for the link. It does
             | seem to require a native viewer instead of having a web
             | interface. I would really prefer just a website like the
             | PiKVM. Might still get it.
             | 
             | I have to do an off-topic rant though. The marketing page
             | you linked to does not really state what this device does.
             | It has a nice look into the case and a lot of buzzwords,
             | but nothing like a small section with "HDMI Input" or "USB
             | keyboard emulation". Even the shop page is somewhat light
             | on details, but it at least shows (in GIFs only) that it
             | works as a display and has a USB port. If I wasn't given
             | your comment as context, I would likely not have gotten the
             | use case and closed the tab. Based on the form factor being
             | similar to a Fire TV stick etc. I would have assumed you
             | plug it into a Hotel TV or similar to work on that.
             | 
             | EDIT: Saw your edit now and I think it is kind of funny
             | that the old HN thread is also mentioning the marketing.
        
             | password4321 wrote:
             | On the other end of the spectrum, searching https://hn.algo
             | lia.com/?query=handheld%20comments%3E0&sort=b... I found
             | the $1000 8" GPD Pocket 3 which supports Windows 11 and KVM
             | discussed in 2021:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29110603
             | 
             | https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3
        
             | ethagnawl wrote:
             | Those combo devices are incredibly useful in a pinch -- I
             | keep one in my backpack. I've used it countless times while
             | working on interactive installations and also while messing
             | around with Pis at home.
        
             | Ductapemaster wrote:
             | Looks like those mini keyboards are available on AliExpress
             | quite cheap!
             | 
             | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804879544433.html
        
           | shepherdjerred wrote:
           | I have this exact same problem. I wonder how they solve this
           | issue in datacenters and if that solution could apply to the
           | home setting.
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | From what I understand, KVM setup is what is used. In the
             | olden days it used to be a keyboard and monitor in every
             | rack with a switch to connect to all the machines in the
             | rack. Nowadays I'm sure it is more software than hardware
             | but same principle. A home setup would be a laptop form
             | factor device that can take in different video inputs and
             | has a keyboard. A mouse wouldn't even be required but I
             | guess wouldn't be hard to add. It would need a battery for
             | the monitor but really would need no brains at all.
             | 
             | Another option would be a computer that can do video in and
             | act as a USB HID for the keyboard/mouse but then allow you
             | to connect to it via VNC. This really could be amazing if
             | you could just plug in two cables and then go to your
             | laptop to connect to it.
        
               | walterbell wrote:
               | $40 RISC-V networked KVM for remote 1080p 60fps video,
               | keyboard and power control, 2" cube,
               | https://sipeed.com/nanokvm
        
               | snvzz wrote:
               | Sadly, proprietary firmware makes it useless.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | iPad + HDMI input dongle can be an HDMI monitor. iPad +
           | GetConsole app + Redpark [1] USB-serial cable = serial
           | console. The missing piece is USB keyboard emulation, but
           | serial->arduino [2] might work.
           | 
           | iPad + $40 RISC-V piKVM-alike [3] is another option.
           | [1] https://redpark.com/usb-c-serial-cable       [2]
           | https://www.sjoerdlangkemper.nl/2022/11/16/running-etherkey-
           | on-arduino-leonardo/       [3] https://sipeed.com/nanokvm
        
           | itintheory wrote:
           | They make USB KVM devices. Run an application on your
           | computer to send input / receive output. Then you can use
           | whatever laptop you want. That said, I've only used them on
           | Windows, so drivers might be an issue.
        
             | IgorPartola wrote:
             | Would that work with a BIOS? Boot loader?
        
               | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
               | Yes, the pikvm (or nanokvm) devices are cheap KVM over IP
               | and they take input from the HDMI output of the
               | server/pc, so you see just the same as you would if you
               | were stood in front of the physical monitor plugged into
               | the HDMI. They also come with the motherboard connector
               | so you can do a power-off/power-on remotely. You can
               | change BIOS settings and even do a full OS install
               | remotely.
        
           | vladxyz wrote:
           | take a look at the gpd pocket 3, with kvm module. sounds
           | exactly like what you're looking for
        
           | pastorhudson wrote:
           | I picked up a used 7 inch "dslr monitor" with hdmi input for
           | about $99 I keep it in a cheap harbor freight pelican style
           | case.
        
         | jeden wrote:
         | What You thing about linux handheld like Sony Clie UX 50 ? Good
         | keyboard, nice screen and camera, long time working.
         | 
         | Yes, I'm dreaming too.
        
       | idiotsecant wrote:
       | I want this so bad.
        
       | GardenLetter27 wrote:
       | It looks cool, but I've found the Steam Deck is the only portable
       | computer that's versatile enough for me to actually use for all
       | sorts of different stuff.
        
         | dsp_person wrote:
         | Anyone know if steam deck can act as a USB OTG keyboard?
         | 
         | I remember this being a cool feature of those GPD Pocket
         | computers. It would be cool to hook something up to the USB and
         | send keystrokes from the steam deck (not necessarily from the
         | touchscreen keyboard, but by scripts).
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | you have to enable USB Dual-Role Device in the BIOS settings
           | for it to act as a device, but yes.
        
             | dsp_person wrote:
             | ah thanks for that. I was searching for OTG not DRD
             | 
             | This is cool https://github.com/Frederic98/GadgetDeck
        
         | canuckintime wrote:
         | >> Steam Deck is the only portable computer that's versatile...
         | 
         | Would you clarify your categorization?
         | 
         | I personally consider 'portable computer' to be any computer
         | with an internal battery (including laptops etc). I don't find
         | the Steam Deck especially versatile in that category.
         | 
         | A separate/sub-category for me would be 'pocketable computers'
         | (like this Hackberry-Pi_Zero, the GPD Win mini etc) for which
         | the Steam Deck would be unusually versatile--albeit the Steam
         | Deck does NOT fit in any of my pants or jacket pockets.
        
       | teraflop wrote:
       | This looks like a pretty cool device!
       | 
       | However, I was immediately curious about how the "dual battery"
       | feature works. The IP5306 power-management IC seems to be
       | designed only for a single battery, and as far as I can tell from
       | the schematic[1], the two battery connectors are just directly
       | connected to each other in parallel (across VBAT and GND).
       | 
       | This seems really sketchy. If you plug in two batteries that are
       | not at the same state-of-charge, then you're going to get a very
       | large current flowing from the higher-voltage battery to the
       | lower-voltage one, probably significantly exceeding the
       | batteries' rated current limits. At best this wastes a lot of
       | power and generates a lot of heat, and at worst it could be a
       | fire hazard.
       | 
       | [1]: https://github.com/ZitaoTech/Hackberry-
       | Pi_Zero/blob/main/Sch...
        
         | fecal_henge wrote:
         | At best this wastes a lot of power and generates a lot of heat,
         | and at worst it could be a fire hazard. - you just described my
         | high spec HP laptop.
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | If you ran it with one battery would you not have the problem ?
        
           | teraflop wrote:
           | There's no problem if you use one battery, and there should
           | also be no problem if you use two batteries and
           | charge/discharge them both simultaneously (because then the
           | voltages are matched).
           | 
           | The problem shows up when you try to "hot-swap" just one of
           | the batteries and replace it with one at a different state of
           | charge, as the README claims you can do.
        
             | fecal_henge wrote:
             | What is the expectation here about functionality? They are
             | using some kind of COTS battery system to keep the cost
             | down, but at the consequence of this safety qustion. Should
             | these people expect any buyer to antipate this? Its not
             | really a consumer product after all.
             | 
             | I think there is no shortage of battery management ICs, but
             | the number that can arbitrate between external
             | power/battery A/Battery B certainly eliminates 97% on your
             | Digikey parametrics.
        
               | aftbit wrote:
               | IMO my expectation is that they not do that. If they want
               | to offer hot-swappable batteries, they should either do
               | it right (with a more functional battery management IC or
               | a little homebrewed FET-switching circuit), or they
               | should at least come up with a hack that doesn't threaten
               | the battery safety. For example, have a physical switch
               | to select between the two batteries and instruct the user
               | to flip it when one gets low. Use a super capacitor to
               | cover the short time while the switch is between
               | connections.
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | It feels to me that the fact that there are no readily
               | available BMS chip that supports this type of circuit
               | indicates something. But maybe I'm mistaken...
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | I understood it as it'll use only one of the batteries, but you
         | can swap between which is used. So initially, you have two
         | charged batteries, while using only one. Once you run out of
         | power in the first one, you'll switch to the second, and now
         | the first one could be swapped to a fully charged one.
         | Blue/green deployments, but for batteries basically.
        
           | teraflop wrote:
           | It would be convenient if it worked that way, but since the
           | batteries are connected across each other in parallel, they
           | will both be discharged simultaneously. And as soon as you
           | hot-swap one of the nearly-discharged batteries for a charged
           | one, it'll be more-or-less short circuited across its
           | discharged counterpart.
           | 
           | To do what you describe, you would need additional components
           | to "switch" one battery at a time into the power path. (This
           | can be done with a single transistor if you're only worried
           | about current flowing in one direction, but I believe it's
           | trickier if you want to support both charging and discharging
           | in the same circuit.)
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | null
        
               | teraflop wrote:
               | Yes, that is exactly what I said at the beginning of this
               | thread.
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | I asked the following above - does this work?
             | 
             | >> A mid-stream capacitor is holding enough charge for 10
             | seconds to allow indivdual swapping out -- and also this is
             | meant? to mean that you can swap TWO NEW batteries in
             | without having to shutdown/sleep/power interrupt - thus the
             | 10 seconds.... that dope
             | 
             | EDIT: I was imagining the capacitor holds up the whole
             | thing for ten seconds to swap out both bats...
        
               | teraflop wrote:
               | In theory you _could_ do that, but it has its own costs
               | and complications. And if you 're going to add a big
               | enough capacitor to ride out a battery swap, why bother
               | with two batteries instead of just one?
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | Hotswap of two parallel batteries must replace both with
               | a matched pair. Otherwise the one at higher state of
               | charge starts charging others without current limit.
        
         | johnklos wrote:
         | I read this part:
         | 
         | > Replace your battery in 10 seconds without killing the power!
         | 
         | as a suggestion that you'd have four batteries total, and you'd
         | have two that're fully charged, and you'd replace one battery,
         | and within seconds you'd replace the other. Or at least that's
         | how I'd do it.
         | 
         | I've recently read up about power management and battery
         | charging, and want to make a charge controller than can connect
         | two separate banks. I wonder how hard it'd be to change the
         | IP5306 in the Hackberry Pi Zero to handle the two batteries
         | separately.
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | And if you screw up which battery is which?
           | 
           | "Do things exactly right, quickly, or the device bursts into
           | flames*" is not acceptable electronics design, even for
           | something you intend to use yourself.
           | 
           | * do you really want to trust a generic battery's built-in
           | protection IC?
        
             | BolexNOLA wrote:
             | Maybe I'm being too generous but I feel like 99.9% of the
             | people using something like this would do it properly
        
               | Nab443 wrote:
               | .. until their curious child decides to have a look at
               | it.
        
               | II2II wrote:
               | Now that I'm aware, sure. If I wasn't told, I would
               | assume that they were designed so that a new battery
               | could be swapped in while one battery remained inserted
               | to maintain power (much like an old Thinkpad I used to
               | own).
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | It should definitely use the plural, batteries, if that's the
           | intention.
        
             | wanderingjew wrote:
             | acktually, traditionally, 'batteries' referred to two or
             | more cells. This keeps with the etymology of the word as an
             | emplacement of cannon or guns. If OP meant a single cell,
             | they should have written 'cell', not the singular
             | 'battery'.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | A mid-stream capacitor is holding enough charge for 10
           | seconds to allow indivdual swapping out -- and also this is
           | meant? to mean that you can swap TWO NEW batteries in without
           | having to shutdown/sleep/power interrupt - thus the 10
           | seconds.... that _dope_
        
           | outworlder wrote:
           | If there's a capacitor... what about adding a switch to allow
           | you to select which battery you are using? Then you can
           | replace whatever you are not using without issue.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | I was going to launch into a lecture about how battery
         | isolation is a Thing, very simple, etc and the author couldn't
         | possibly be dumb enough to not isolate them with diodes, but
         | then I looked at the schematic and yiiiiiiiikes, they're both
         | just tied together, I think. There's a charge management IC and
         | a MOSFET as part of the USB power input...and that's it.
         | 
         | I was sketched out by BSI not being connected to anything, but
         | it seems it's a fixed resistance battery size/chemistry ID
         | function, not a temperature sensor. That said, I don't see any
         | over/under temperature protection except for some sort of vague
         | temperature limit in the charge IC (which is not thermally
         | coupled to the battery in any way, so only a general "the
         | device is way too hot"), so hopefully that's in the battery -
         | don't go buying any cheapo clones.
         | 
         | I also don't see any fusing, which is a huge no-no. A polyfuse
         | is a twenty cent (ish) part. Again, an official battery would
         | have an internal BMS circuit and prevent overcurrent events,
         | but people are probably going to go for the almost-cheapest
         | battery on Amazon/Ebay. Not to mention counterfeit problems
         | even if you do try to get an OEM battery.
        
           | szundi wrote:
           | Oh, houses can burn down by not putting in 2 diodes and ptc
           | fuses
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | I agree, this is a pretty bad idea. I've used batteries in
         | parallel many times, but it's always in the context of treating
         | it as a single "bank" that is always charged at the same level,
         | not as individual batteries which can be swapped separately.
         | Swapping a full battery in when the other one is low is going
         | to result in a rapid rebalance of power until they get to the
         | same level!
         | 
         | You can think of it like having two big swimming pools side by
         | side, slowly draining out into a little stream. If the two
         | pools are at the same level and the wall between them
         | disappeared, they're largely going to be fine and keep on
         | going.
         | 
         | Now imagine one pool is nearly empty and the other is full. As
         | soon as you disappear that wall in the middle, there's gonna be
         | a very powerful wave as the water from the high pool rushes in
         | to fill the empty pool.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | It looks like two BL-5Cs, which normally come with their own
         | overcurrent protection (AFAIK even the no-name generic clone
         | cells do), so what's more likely to happen is you trip the
         | protection on one of the cells being swapped. Fortunately these
         | are not very high capacity nor current cells, being ~1000mAh at
         | most. They seem to be pretty robust in general, as a series of
         | hugely popular MP3/MP4 players that used them had nothing more
         | than a diode from USB5V for charging.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I'll gripe about that "schematic" being not
         | actually a schematic but just loose parts with labeled pins.
        
           | RF_Savage wrote:
           | Barely more than a netlist.
        
         | szundi wrote:
         | What about having 2 diodes and problem solved
        
         | jeden wrote:
         | It has no solar panels , runs shorter than my cell phone on a
         | single charge. It is thick. No ethernet socket Any small UMPC
         | is better than this thing. I don't mercifully mention the blobs
         | encapsulated in the raspberry pi itself.
        
           | znpy wrote:
           | It's got usb-2.0 ports though, you can get an usb-ethernet
           | adapter if you want
        
             | swiatlo wrote:
             | for power?
        
         | meefus wrote:
         | I'm not understanding the appeal here. Why use this instead of
         | a regular smartphone?
        
         | rkagerer wrote:
         | People often do this on their boat, but with 100Ah batteries
         | and those rotary switches that select between "1, 2, BOTH".
         | 
         | They don't realize how much current can flow if they slam it to
         | "BOTH" when two batteries with very different voltages are
         | connected.
        
       | rogerpeters wrote:
       | Are there any compact 4G/5G boards which can be plugged into this
       | for outside connectivity? Last I looked, these breakout boards
       | were far too cumbersome.
        
         | oofbey wrote:
         | I think connectivity would be a key challenge for this device.
         | RPI zero2W only has WiFi4 == 802.11b/g/n. In a modern crowded
         | building, 2.4GHz is often super crammed and busy, and I find
         | wifi4 barely works. Lots of dropped packets, sometimes full
         | seconds of latency.
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | It's nice, but I would use something with a bit more memory. An
       | Orange Pi Zero 2W with 4GB maybe.
       | 
       | 512MB nowadays is only practical if you don't use a GUI.
        
       | mafuyu wrote:
       | My pet peeve with RasPi for these types of handheld projects is
       | that they don't support suspend, and don't have a true poweroff
       | state. Even in poweroff, they sit there consuming a bunch of
       | current.
       | 
       | Beepy is a similar project that uses a RasPi Zero, and their
       | approach is to cut power to the RasPi entirely with a management
       | MCU. On my Beepy, I switched to a Radxa Zero instead and ported
       | over any relevant kernel modules and device tree overlays,
       | because it has an Amlogic SoC that actually supports suspend.
        
         | boomskats wrote:
         | Am I right in assuming it's fairly straightforward swap
         | hardware wise? Do you have any measurements of the difference
         | in battery drain between the two? Is it a fairly recent kernel?
         | 
         | With that Sharp memory LCD and proper suspend that's
         | potentially a gamechanger for the beepy. Any direction you can
         | point me in appreciated.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | Ditto. I've wanted to get a Beepy for a while, and I have a
           | Radxa Zero already.
        
             | swiatlo wrote:
             | what is better? for ssh?
        
           | mafuyu wrote:
           | Hey, sorry for the late response. I posted my notes here:
           | https://github.com/Hylian/beepy-radxa-zero-notes. It's a
           | straight swap hardware-wise, and for software, you just need
           | to build/install the kernel modules and configure some kernel
           | boot arguments.
           | 
           | Feel free to ask in the Discord if you have any questions.
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | I'd love to learn more! I'm one of the Beepy creators...I just
         | emailed you
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | I want my Blackberry back badly, and this project is giving me
       | hope.
       | 
       | The case it a bit too big, there are still battery issues, and of
       | course a 5G card + microphone + loudspeaker need to be added.
       | 
       | But perhaps the day will come that I can roll that wheel to view
       | my emails again, use that excellent small keyboard to reply
       | without having to touch glass.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | With some customization, Fairberry can fit a Blackberry
         | keyboard on mobile phones with a USB port,
         | https://liliputing.com/fairberry-lets-you-attach-a-blackberr...
        
         | F7F7F7 wrote:
         | I'm right there with you. The side scroll wheel on my 7520 was
         | perfection. I could operate it from my pocket completely
         | blindly.
         | 
         | Punkt showed off a device that had me hopeful for awhile but it
         | doesn't look like they are releasing it.
        
       | jejeyyy77 wrote:
       | nice!
        
       | johnklos wrote:
       | I'd love one of these!
       | 
       | I just built a portable enclosure with a charge controller, USB
       | hub, ethernet and four 18650 batteries. While The Hackberry Pi
       | Zero would've been a lot easier (assuming I'd've just bought one
       | instead of making it myself), the only downside is the battery
       | life. My application is for having a server that travels with me
       | and is on 100% of the time, sometimes running on battery for
       | hours at a time.
       | 
       | This, though, is so much smaller... It's definitely something to
       | consider when they're shipping.
       | 
       | Edit: just read, "Main Processor: Only compaticable with
       | Raspberry pi zero 2w." I wonder why it's not compatible with the
       | original Zero. Is it just that the drivers and preinstalled OS
       | are 64 bit? Even though the 2W is more performant per watt, it
       | still takes more absolute power. Hmmm.
        
         | axelthegerman wrote:
         | > My application is for having a server that travels with me
         | 
         | You probably have your reasons but I wonder why anyone would
         | need that
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | I have one, and it's very, very useful:
           | https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2023/10/07/1830
        
       | ianpenney wrote:
       | See also: Lilygo Tdeck
       | 
       | https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck
       | 
       | Runs meshtastic:
       | 
       | https://meshtastic.org/
       | 
       | The new UI is being developed right now...
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/mtFwETD7nY4?feature=shared
        
       | petschge wrote:
       | If that thing had VGA-in on top of the keyboard and mouse out via
       | USB, it would be a great tool to carry in a data center when you
       | have to physically interact with a machine.
        
         | rasz wrote:
         | Plenty of commercial stuff that does just that. You can even
         | buy dedicated network testers with this functionality.
         | 
         | [The most useful networking tool I own - AliExpress "CCTV
         | Tester" that does a lot more than test CCTV] Cameron Gray
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZQSkFl4yIM
        
       | KennyBlanken wrote:
       | > There is a red switch on the left side to decide if the
       | keyboard controller communicates with the HackberryPi or with
       | other device through the USBC-Port underneath.
       | 
       | OK, having it be able to function as an emergency USB keyboard is
       | pretty cool, though I think I'd prefer emulation of a USB device
       | so I could run a sequence of commands, inject usernames and
       | passwords for logins, etc.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | FYI, there was a board named Hackberry over 10 years ago not
       | related to the Raspberries. It employed the Allwinner A10 CPU and
       | had WiFi on board, which was not common back in the day. It
       | however lacked any exposed GPIO which made it unsuitable for
       | hardware hacking, but had good audio (much much better than the
       | RPis available back then) and decent overall performance. I still
       | have one somewhere and recall using it both as webradio receiver
       | for music and with SDR dongles using rtl_tcp. Later, smaller and
       | better boards such as the NanoPi M1 turned out more useful for
       | remote SDR applications.
       | 
       | https://linux-sunxi.org/Miniand_Hackberry
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Is the keyboard original? The one on the q20 bb was great
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | The keyboard is the weak link.
       | 
       | We need a better voice to text. One that tunes into its user's
       | voice perfectly without getting distracted. And that you can
       | subvocalize at.
       | 
       | An optimized spoken language for talking to phones too. Something
       | harsh, insectile and dystopian.
        
         | F7F7F7 wrote:
         | The keyboard is the point.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | The name alone is ingenious. I'm completely enamored.
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | Back in the day, the Nokia N770/N810/N900 line fit the bill for
       | this perfectly. Its form factor was perfect for the "Linux
       | terminal in your pocket" use case.
       | 
       | Might be something to look into for design inspiration.
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | I miss them so much. Even the N9, which lacked a physical
         | keyboard, was so nice. A planned N9 variant with a sliding
         | keyboard was never released once the series was discontinued.
         | 
         | It was so refreshing to have a mobile that acted as a regular
         | Linux machine. You could copy files from your other computers
         | normally just using scp.
         | 
         | Or tweak the GSM radio, as you would do with any other device,
         | just using ifconfig.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | I wonder why the two switch system was necessary. Would an auto
       | switch when an external keyboard is plugged in require something
       | that would drain resources like a hardware listener?
        
       | szundi wrote:
       | I love these gadgets
        
       | jeden wrote:
       | Such computers are cool, but fat and inconvenient. I don't
       | understand why decent companies like ibm, samsung or others won't
       | make a Linux handheld seriously. With a good processor that will
       | be power efficient and run for a long time on a single charge.
       | 
       | Terminal and ssh will suffice in many cases. People a lot of time
       | used only terminal and live.
        
         | techn00 wrote:
         | Because there's no money to be made from such devices
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | 2023 Pixel tablet can run GrapheneOS and supports Android
         | Virtualization Framework (pKVM) for real Linux VMs alongside
         | Android.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | I wonder if selling this as a kit with parts to solder and
       | assemble would make it easier to sell more of these.
        
       | RecycledEle wrote:
       | I wish someone would make a 5" to 7" clamshell "laptop" that runs
       | a Linux command line and lasts forever on an internal lithium (or
       | replaceable AA) battery.
       | 
       | I want the retro feel of mini laptops back when GUIs were only on
       | $20k UNIX workstations.
        
         | abawany wrote:
         | I have a MNT Pocket Reform on order just for this reason. I
         | recently sold a Sony PGH (~2009 model) that still ran modern
         | Debian just fine as I'm expecting to get my order soon. Edit: I
         | also bought a broken HP 95LX so I could replace its innards
         | with a RPi Zero 2w and a screen but I haven't made progress on
         | that yet.
        
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