[HN Gopher] A year of Meta's news ban in Canada
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A year of Meta's news ban in Canada
        
       Author : ikesau
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2024-08-02 19:23 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.mediaecosystemobservatory.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.mediaecosystemobservatory.com)
        
       | ch33zer wrote:
       | This is super interesting, but I think the question everyone
       | wants an answer to is how are the news orgs doing? Are they going
       | out of business or does the ban just not matter to them? Looking
       | at revenue or other metrics would have been the study I'd want to
       | see.
        
         | jejeyyy77 wrote:
         | CBC is publicly funded so they aren't going to go out of
         | business. The smaller outlets maybe, but remains to be seen.
        
           | thrusong wrote:
           | I mean, they'll probably shut down if Pierre Poilievre
           | assumes power, though.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | One of the oldest (though smaller) dailies, the _Whitehorse
           | Star_ , folded this past May:
           | 
           | <https://thewalrus.ca/whitehorse-daily-star/>
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | They're going out of business/further consolidating/mass layoff
         | for a lot of reasons but this doesn't help.
         | 
         | A lot of newsrooms have already done mass layoffs over the
         | years and there isn't much more to cut other than shutting
         | down.
         | 
         | https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-wire-news-releases-pm...
         | 
         | https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/corus-entertainment-says-ong...
         | 
         | Can sort by date here and see a pile of newspaper closures in
         | 2023:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_newspapers_o...
         | 
         | Metromedia filed for bankruptcy and shut down all papers in
         | August 2023: https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/an-atomic-bomb-for-
         | local-news-me...
        
         | humanlion87 wrote:
         | This is especially having a huge negative impact on some of the
         | smaller newspapers. One example from a recent article -
         | https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/one-year-after-news-ban-can...
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | Yeah. This study is almost entirely about vanity metrics. Like,
         | who cares about the number of social media engagements for news
         | companies? Nobody. They're not worth anything to anyone.
         | 
         | Or how is the proportion of people who don't know that news
         | content is blocked interesting?
         | 
         | Basically, this appears to be a study of data that was easy to
         | get, not of data that could produce any kind of actionable
         | insights for anyone.
         | 
         | In addition to the kind of data you asked for, data on whether
         | use of FB/Instagram went down when the block was put in place
         | would be fascinating.
        
       | apatry wrote:
       | I am curious if the reduction in quantity of news consumed
       | resulted in an increase in average quality of news consumed.
        
         | tossandthrow wrote:
         | Seems like both a reduction in quality and quantity.
         | 
         | > Canadians continue to learn about politics and current events
         | through Facebook and Instagram, but through a more biased and
         | less factual lens than before and many Canadians do not even
         | realize the shift has occurred.
        
           | stanleykm wrote:
           | Although this makes me wonder about the nature of news that
           | tends to get shared on social media. Is it factual reporting
           | or is it opinions we pretend are factual because they're on
           | the right domain?
        
             | tossandthrow wrote:
             | All media are under some influence and has an agenda.
             | "factual" information is another way to say that the
             | narrative is controlled in accordance with societal values.
             | 
             | I think the take away is that Canada is loosing the ability
             | to keep macro beliefs in check.
             | 
             | It I'd going it be interesting to see what the long term
             | management of this is.
             | 
             | Interesting previous cases is how we shaped the media
             | landscape after the second world War in order to (attempt
             | to) eradicate nazist beliefs.
        
         | Stefan-H wrote:
         | If there is an increase in the quality of news consumed it is
         | not the result of the quantity of news consumed decreasing. It
         | would have to be the result of the consumers seeking alternate
         | sources, or some other factor.
        
           | meiraleal wrote:
           | > If there is an increase in the quality of news consumed it
           | is not the result of the quantity of news consumed
           | decreasing.
           | 
           | If you read 10x less news from Joe and Billy on Facebook but
           | start reading from professional sources of news, they still
           | might be bad but it will probably be a better article to
           | read.
        
       | bfung wrote:
       | Other curiosity/follow-up questions:
       | 
       | * has this impacted biases or political stances (extreme or
       | middle) in any direction?
       | 
       | * has this impacted individual happiness in any way?
        
       | kredd wrote:
       | My neighbourhood Facebook groups have gotten much more tolerable,
       | if I'll be honest. People stopped polluting them with
       | provincial/federal news, and just talk about hyper local stuff,
       | which I really like.
        
         | kbos87 wrote:
         | For what it's worth I see a similar trend in the US. I'm in a
         | few neighborhood/city Facebook groups in different places and
         | over the past year or so there does seem to be a new,
         | reasonable consensus of opinion against divisive topics or
         | offensive/rude behavior. Posts have taken a turn toward being
         | people-oriented (e.g., this person needs your help) and
         | utilitarian (recommendations for tradespeople.) Angry, overly
         | political, or confrontational posts are quickly called out or
         | deprived of engagement. It's refreshing!
        
           | kredd wrote:
           | Yeah it is great, isn't it? Someone told me there was an
           | announcement from Meta how they're deranking all political
           | posts (maybe only on Threads?) and there was a lot of
           | curfuffle that said stuff like "censorship", but I genuinely
           | believe it's a very good idea. It sucks for big name
           | political commentators, I guess, but I really don't want to
           | see anything election related when I'm trying to find the
           | opening hours for my farmer's market.
        
             | shadowgovt wrote:
             | This is one of the reasons politics is (loosely) a banned
             | topic on HN: right or wrong, it has a tendency to just suck
             | all the air out of the room if it's allowed to run rampant
             | in every forum.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I think social sharing of screenshots is a disease and I'm
       | thinking about making a filter that blocks them. Yikes!
        
         | rpdillon wrote:
         | It's a common technique to get around censorship. Won't last
         | long with how AI is progressing, though.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | I've been thinking about a "mastodon reader that doesn't
           | suck" and one of them would use OCR to eat image memes.
        
       | seryoiupfurds wrote:
       | This whole fiasco was such an obvious own-goal cooked up by an
       | unholy coalition of newspaper industry lobbyists and progressive
       | politicians who are explicitly hostile to understanding the
       | simplest economic principles.
       | 
       | To illustrate the absurdity, imagine if a newspaper had a
       | community section containing blurbs about upcoming local events.
       | Some well-meaning politician comes in and says that the newspaper
       | should pay $10 to every event they feature, because they're
       | benefitting from selling ads on the next page.
       | 
       | The obvious outcome would be for the newspaper to decide that
       | it's just not worth the trouble and remove the community events
       | page. Now everyone is crying and blaming the rich evil newspaper
       | because the events are struggling with less attendance than
       | before.
       | 
       | It turns out that having free links to their stories all over
       | social media really was beneficial to the media, and they were
       | the ones who would be harmed the most by punishing social media
       | companies for allowing it.
       | 
       | I've even seen news organizations' official accounts posting
       | obfuscated links to their stories to get around the ban. Why
       | would they do that, if the core premise that uncompensated links
       | are "stealing" were even remotely close to being true?
        
         | SpecialistK wrote:
         | Very well put. The whole legislation is completely backwards to
         | how the web has always worked.
         | 
         | I run a website. I can pay Google, MS, Meta, etc money to make
         | my site show up higher in search results. Or gain an audience
         | through SEO and organic growth, including on social media. I'm
         | happy when someone shares a link to it, because that means more
         | eyeballs on what I'm putting out. Then I can choose if and how
         | to monetize it. By suggesting that this harms the publisher
         | makes no sense. Why would anyone ever pay for Google sponsored
         | search results if it's harmful to their business?
         | 
         | The lobbyists and politicians have framed it as "using" or
         | "stealing" the content, which is an outright lie: reproducing
         | content without permission is already covered by copyright law.
         | Many of these news sites even have abstracts and social cards
         | specifically for preview when shared.
         | 
         | The other analogy I like is "journalists drink coffee when
         | writing. Starbucks has lots of money. Let's force Starbucks to
         | give journalists free coffee, and a dollar out of their till
         | whenever a journalist walks in."
         | 
         | It's backwards! Offensively so!
         | 
         | If these publishers didn't want their content on Facebook or
         | Google, they can use paywalls, robots.txt, or referral blocks
         | to stop it showing up. But none did - they just wanted to bite
         | the hand that feeds for a few bucks, and we see how well that
         | worked out for them.
        
           | seryoiupfurds wrote:
           | Yes! The only argument I could ever get out of supporters of
           | this law was "but they're billion-dollar corporations, they
           | should pay their fair share!"
           | 
           | Well fine, then adjust the corporate tax rate however you
           | like -- but don't be surprised when the corporations you just
           | described as self-interested and greedy react in the obvious
           | way to a brand new, explicitly created economic disincentive.
        
             | nemothekid wrote:
             | > _" but they're billion-dollar corporations, they should
             | pay their fair share!"_
             | 
             | I don't think this is an invalid argument. This is arguable
             | how _YouTube_ works. One thing that is very interesting
             | about Meta is that they have side-stepped the need to
             | actually invest in content. There 's nothing wrong with
             | saying "my content drove eyeballs to your platform, so give
             | me a cut of the ad revenue".
             | 
             | I think the bigger issue is, we have decided the marginal
             | cost of journalism is nearly 0
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | YouTube pays because they're displaying copyrighted
               | works. I don't think even the worst case-- displaying
               | opengraph tags that sites have to opt into, meets the bar
               | for reproduction of a copyrighted work. I mean we're
               | talking about linking here.
               | 
               | It's not that the marginal cost of journalism is a
               | pittance, but that the _marginal value_ to a social
               | network of links to a few news sites is actually zero. I
               | would take a bet that if social networks just up and
               | banned all external links period it would be at worst
               | revenue neutral.
        
               | nemothekid wrote:
               | > _YouTube pays because they 're displaying copyrighted
               | works._
               | 
               | I think this is a distinction without a difference.
               | YouTube paid for content long before they got serious
               | about IP. Similarly, TikTok had to adopt the same mindset
               | with the Creator fund.
               | 
               | More seriously, the reason why Google pays for content is
               | not because they are billion dollar content, it's because
               | the marginal cost for video is greater than 0, and if
               | they didn't pay for it, the content simply wouldn't
               | exist. However, news article pretty much spawn out of
               | thin air. It exists despite the tech giants not paying
               | for it.
        
               | hackerbeat wrote:
               | Pro photos cost a lot of money to use and FB just gets
               | them for free. Why?
               | 
               | Also, big news corps have lots of correspondents and
               | offices around the globe, which are expensive too.
        
               | seryoiupfurds wrote:
               | > Pro photos cost a lot of money to use and FB just gets
               | them for free. Why?
               | 
               | a) Because the photographer uploaded it, granting a
               | license to display it under the TOS
               | 
               | b) Because someone else uploaded it without permission
               | and Facebook is protected by DMCA safe harbor provisions
               | so long as they remove it upon request
               | 
               | > Also, big news corps have lots of correspondents and
               | offices around the globe, which are expensive too.
               | 
               | Lots of things are expensive without creating some
               | obligation for an unrelated third party to pay you for
               | it.
        
               | hackerbeat wrote:
               | FB should still not get all these things for free.
        
           | throwaway81523 wrote:
           | > I run a website. I can pay Google, MS, Meta, etc money to
           | make my site show up higher in search results. ... The
           | lobbyists and politicians have framed it as "using" or
           | "stealing" the content
           | 
           | Cough, reddit.
           | 
           | https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/08/01/1129247/reddit-
           | ceo-...
           | 
           | Same mistake? Note that "AI training" has now made an
           | appearance. Ignore that Reddit has no ownership of the user-
           | written content in the first place.
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | > Ignore that Reddit has no ownership of the user-written
             | content in the first place.
             | 
             | I wouldn't be so sure about that. Reddit might not retain
             | _sole_ ownership, but they certainly seem to own a copy:
             | https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
             | Except and solely to the extent such a restriction is
             | impermissible under applicable law, you may not, without
             | our written agreement:            license, sell, transfer,
             | assign, distribute, host, or otherwise commercially exploit
             | the Services or Content;            [...]            By
             | submitting Your Content to the Services, you represent and
             | warrant that you have all rights, power, and authority
             | necessary to grant the rights to Your Content contained
             | within these Terms.            When Your Content is created
             | with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a
             | worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-
             | exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use,
             | copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of,
             | distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and
             | any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in
             | connection with Your Content in all media formats and
             | channels now known or later developed anywhere in the
             | world.
        
         | eddythompson80 wrote:
         | This is not really a dry cut. There are people that pay to be
         | on a talkshow or in a newspaper or to perform in an event. Then
         | there are people who get paid to do the same. It all has to do
         | with the economics of the situation.
         | 
         | In this case, those big newspapers were betting that they drive
         | a large portion of Facebook engagement in Canada, so they
         | wanted a cut. Facebook didn't think so. It's trying to find the
         | answer to the question "How many people use Facebook because
         | that's where they get their news?" vs "How many people get the
         | news because they happen to be on Facebook?"
        
           | zitterbewegung wrote:
           | I think it's more apparent that this shows "for how many
           | people Facebook is the internet to them".
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | It was an attempt to replicate similar legislation in
         | Australia. The difference is Rupert Murdoch is almighty in
         | Australian politics and any retorsion of the kind Meta deployed
         | in Canada would have been met with stern reprisals from the
         | supine government. No media group has that kind of power in
         | Canada.
        
         | II2II wrote:
         | One flaw with the comparison is that event organizers submit
         | their upcoming events to the newspaper and may even agree to an
         | interview if the newspaper thought it worthy enough to write
         | their own blurb. In some cases the event organizers will be
         | paying to appear in the events list. Notice how the event
         | organizers are making most of the decisions. The incentives are
         | also completely different. Those events lists are promotional
         | tools in the eyes of event organizers. They benefit from being
         | in them.
         | 
         | With respect to news organizations and social media, they (or
         | at least a subset of them) felt that social media companies
         | were receiving a disproportionate benefit from their product.
         | What resulted was a battle of the titans, where pretty much
         | everyone loses out. It's important to remember that bit about
         | titans. Both the news organizations and social media companies
         | are taking their stance to benefit themselves, _not_ consumers.
        
           | seryoiupfurds wrote:
           | News organisations would routinely post links to their latest
           | stories using their official social media accounts.
           | 
           | Don't you think they would have stopped if they felt they
           | were being harmed by it?
        
         | hackerbeat wrote:
         | What you don't consider is that FB is heavily profiting from
         | professionally created content that takes a lot of money to
         | create, with many users just skimming the headlines without
         | ever clicking through.
         | 
         | In short, just another billionaire profiting off of other
         | people's work without ever paying for it.
         | 
         | Those new AI companies, which are also conducting large-scale
         | theft, are no different and should either seize operation or
         | also start paying their fair share.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > In short, just another billionaire profiting off of other
           | people's work without ever paying for it.
           | 
           | Why are the news orgs unhappy after Facebook stopped doing
           | it?
        
             | hackerbeat wrote:
             | How do you know they're unhappy?
        
               | seryoiupfurds wrote:
               | Because they're constantly posting articles whining that
               | "Meta's news ban" is killing the media.
        
               | hackerbeat wrote:
               | Yeah, but Meta wasn't willing to pay for it.
               | 
               | Why should power-hungry Zuck get everything for free when
               | YouTube, for example, is giving everyone a cut?
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | Well then this is great no? The billionaires and Facebook
           | don't get to profit from the media. Since the law was passed
           | on the premise that Facebook was basically stealing money
           | from local media corporations, surely our national media
           | industry is doing better now by not getting exploited like
           | that.
           | 
           | Yet I keep seeing sob stories after sob stories from the
           | exact same media organizations that were vehemently pushing
           | for this. Something about leopards and faces getting eaten
           | comes to mind
           | 
           | (Also, media corporations here are -in typical Canadian
           | fashion- a handful of giants controlling basically most
           | outlets. A part from the state sponsored/funded CBC. So
           | there's basically no little guys in this fight, and Canadian
           | corporations always try to pull this type of stuff to protect
           | their little corporatist fiefdoms through the federal
           | government)
        
             | hackerbeat wrote:
             | But why should FB get this content for free (including the
             | images used)?
        
               | seryoiupfurds wrote:
               | They don't any more! This whole article is about how they
               | go out of their way to prevent users from even posting
               | links to it!
        
               | jsnell wrote:
               | Because the news organizations are giving it to FB, with
               | the intent of FB using it in a way that gets users to
               | click on the link, and all of this is disproportionately
               | to the benefit of the news organizations.
        
               | hackerbeat wrote:
               | FB should give back more than just clicks. See YouTube.
        
           | jsnell wrote:
           | Yes, it would not make sense for the GP to consider that
           | statement, since it was just made up for political purposes.
           | 
           | There is no evidence of it being true, and some
           | circumstantial evidence of it _not_ being true: namely, that
           | FB was willing to block news from their site, and there was
           | no obvious impact to e.g. their financials.
        
             | hackerbeat wrote:
             | I'm not following. What's been made up for political
             | purposes?
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | > Less news is being consumed by Canadians
       | 
       | I don't think this is a bad thing tbh. I've also started reducing
       | my news consumption years ago. First there was the pandemic where
       | there was only bad news not worth watching. And now we have an
       | extreme-right government in Holland so I'm simply disillusioned
       | and I don't care what they do anymore.
       | 
       | At the same time most news sites (like the mainstream nu.nl)
       | require either payment or logging in with an account which I
       | refuse so I'm just skimming the news headlines on the national
       | state broadcaster (NOS) once a day or so.
       | 
       | I still follow the local city news a bit because those things
       | actually matter in my life. But not on social media, I've blocked
       | all news outlets there (on the few i still check because I've
       | greatly disconnected from socials since even before the
       | pandemic). I simply don't care anymore.
       | 
       | And guess what? I'm a lot happier for it. A lot less things to
       | get angry about. I just spend my time talking to friends and
       | people I do actually care about.
       | 
       | I think it's because both socials and the regular news love
       | promoting controversial topics because they get more engagement.
       | People get all wound up and that makes them stay on the platform
       | to argue and thus see more ads. I'm kinda done with that.
       | 
       | And most news is really not that important anyway. My life is not
       | noticeably changed by not knowing all but the most important news
       | facts. I'm fine without it, most of it was just FOMO.
       | 
       | Ps I really appreciate HN for not doing this. I still learn a lot
       | of nice and interesting things here.
        
         | pegasus wrote:
         | > And now we have a fascist government in Holland so I'm simply
         | disillusioned and I don't care what they do anymore.
         | 
         | If that's indeed the case, it should be an alarm call for all
         | citizens to start caring and getting politically involved even
         | more than before. It's not like the world owes us not to go up
         | in flames, and if it does, we shouldn't just sit down shaking
         | our head in disappointment.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Yeah it's really sad when our own minister of immigration was
           | promoting the "displacement theory" :'(
           | 
           | And I'm already politically active, I always was. But I the
           | these people thrive on dissent just like social media does.
           | Anger is a very strong emotion.
           | 
           | Ps I have since edited the term fascist to extreme-right as
           | it's a more appropriate description. Though both apply IMO.
           | For example the party in question doesn't even permit
           | members. It's all about the one guy who decides everything.
        
           | nailer wrote:
           | > If that's indeed the case
           | 
           | It's not. The Netherlands remains a parliamentary
           | representative democracy.
        
         | tossandthrow wrote:
         | > I don't think this is a bad thing tbh.
         | 
         | I am quite sure this does not mean that Canadians consume less
         | digital content. Just that is is not news (from Canadian news
         | outlets).
         | 
         | For a sovereign country this is catastrophic.
         | 
         | It probably means that Canadians consume even more reddit style
         | media, YouTube shorts or outright propaganda from foreign
         | nations.
        
           | soupbowl wrote:
           | Canadians can watch most major news broadcasts on YouTube.
           | Also we have our own state sponsored media and propaganda, is
           | foreign propaganda guaranteed to be worse?
        
         | seryoiupfurds wrote:
         | >> Less news is being consumed by Canadians
         | 
         | > I don't think this is a bad thing tbh.
         | 
         | Less real news, but not necessarily less political content. And
         | now you can't reply to misinformation with a link to a real
         | news story.
        
         | jen729w wrote:
         | After doom-scrolling Covid all through 2020, I stopped reading
         | all news at the start of 2021. I haven't deliberately visited
         | the home page of a news organisation since.
         | 
         | It's not a hard ban. I'll click a link someone sends me, not
         | that people do that. I'll walk past my partner's iPad and look
         | over her shoulder. Occasionally I'll pick up a print edition of
         | the Economist.
         | 
         | But, by and large, I don't 'read the news'. I can only
         | recommend it. 'The news' as published on the majority of sites
         | is mostly crap you don't care about. Even the reputable sites.
         | And then when it's some big event that you are supposed to care
         | about, that just makes you sad/angry/whatever.
         | 
         | People say that I'm absolving myself of my responsibility to
         | society. Nah. I vote (I have to, I'm Australian). My vote
         | hasn't changed in 20 years, nothing I read is going to do that
         | now. And I wasn't politically active before, so that hasn't
         | changed.
         | 
         | Just stop reading the news.
        
         | create-account wrote:
         | >First there was the pandemic where there was only bad news not
         | worth watching.
         | 
         | scaremongering people's amygdalas 24 hours a day for more than
         | six consecutive months must have left a mental scar on people's
         | minds and the newborn children
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | > Despite the ban, news organization content is still available
       | on Meta platforms through work-around strategies like
       | screengrabs, with 36% of Canadian users reporting encountering
       | news or links to news on Facebook or Instagram. This arguably
       | should make Meta subject to the requirements of the Online News
       | Act.
       | 
       | Until Facebook bans screenshots as well. Or maybe they can switch
       | tactics to prosecute the users posting screenshots for copyright
       | infringement. They're at least equally to blame, no?
        
         | meiraleal wrote:
         | Yeah. They could also pay for the news but that's outrageous,
         | right?
        
           | seryoiupfurds wrote:
           | Why should they be obliged to pay for the news if they don't
           | want it because it isn't valuable for them?
           | 
           | Is it immoral not to buy the $15 hotdog at a sports stadium
           | even if you decide you're not that hungry?
        
       | bitshiftfaced wrote:
       | Seems like Meta could and should detect the image-of-article
       | workaround. It's easy enough to use OCR and then match to a known
       | news source.
        
         | beej71 wrote:
         | At FB scale, this seems like a non-trivial computational
         | expense, meaning they'll do it if they're forced to.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | I would imagine they have similar systems in place from back
           | when ISIS used Facebook Live to stream beheadings.
        
         | da768 wrote:
         | People share links to linktr.ee pages and said page has a link
         | to the news article. OCR would be no use unless Facebook
         | started crawling links
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | I'm a millennial, probably Facebook's original primary
       | demographic, and I still have no idea where the hell you'd go and
       | read the news on it. It's just not a place I think of when I
       | think of getting the news of the day. That would be Reddit or HN
       | instead. Heck, sometimes I even still kick it old school and go
       | to Yahoo News. But never Facebook.
        
         | seryoiupfurds wrote:
         | It's when your friend/uncle posts a link to the latest headline
         | about what Trump/Biden said today.
        
         | howard941 wrote:
         | I'm gen X in the US. I haven't seen any news on FB in the last
         | few months other than what my connections post. Was news a big
         | thing in Canada on FB?
        
           | simonbw wrote:
           | I believe it's referring to those links that your connections
           | post.
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | Newsfeed.
        
       | z5h wrote:
       | Nevermind the quantity of news read. What about the quality and
       | variety of news read?
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Canadian journalism is suffering - but Meta isn 't budging_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41131615
        
       | cperciva wrote:
       | There is no such thing as "Meta's News Ban". This is _the federal
       | government 's_ ban on non-fee-paying websites sharing links to
       | news stories.
        
         | sharkjacobs wrote:
         | > ban on non-fee-paying websites sharing links to news stories
         | 
         | There's a couple important caveats there that you're eliding.
         | 
         | > made available by dominant digital news intermediaries and
         | generates economic gain
         | 
         | https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c18_...
        
       | mewse-hn wrote:
       | > _Canadians continue to learn about politics and current events
       | through Facebook and Instagram, but through a more biased and
       | less factual lens than before_
       | 
       | [citation needed]
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | > Canadian news outlets have lost 85% of their engagement on
       | Facebook
       | 
       | Okay, but what kind of engagement? Because "engagement" alone is
       | not a metric.
       | 
       | > Less news is being consumed by Canadians
       | 
       | Again: that's not a metric in and of itself, given that constant
       | cries of information saturation. How much news is being consumed,
       | and is that still to much?
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | "Three quarters of the Canadian public are unaware of the ban"
       | 
       | In other words most people don't care about the news and weren't
       | paying attention anyway. Doesn't seem like much has been lost.
        
         | nox101 wrote:
         | I'd assume there are knock on effects. The people that did get
         | news via FB no longer share it because they aren't getting it.
         | So, even people that don't use FB become less informed. Like if
         | one member of a family used to read news via FB and share some
         | of it with the rest of the family.
         | 
         | Note: I'm not saying whether that result is good or bad I'm
         | only saying that not being aware of the ban doesn't mean
         | nothing has been lost.
        
       | jrgaston wrote:
       | It's but one data point, so don't draw any conclusions, but my
       | Canadian household's news consumption is unchanged. We get lots
       | of news from the CBC, the Atlantic, the New Yorker, the Guardian,
       | and the NY Times. Oh, and there's a local tv channel that has
       | pretty good local (Vancouver Island) news.
        
       | nightshift1 wrote:
       | This is only a short summary. There is a couple of full reports
       | on the main page of their website.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, is is not very interesting because the study seems
       | to rely almost completely on Facebook data. The effects on that
       | platform were pretty predictible.
       | 
       | There are obvious questions left unanswered:
       | 
       | - What was the effect on direct traffic ?
       | 
       | - What was the effect on paid subscriptions ?
       | 
       | - Are people effectively less informed ?
        
       | ipaddr wrote:
       | This is positive. Media in Canada is concentrated by a few large
       | orgs (Postmedia, Quebecor, Bell media, Rogers). Most independent
       | newspaper, radio stations are being bought and speaking with the
       | same voice. Deplatforming themselves is turning out to be a good
       | thing for everyone else.
        
       | pingou wrote:
       | Canada also introduced the digital services tax recently:
       | https://globalnews.ca/news/10604912/digital-services-tax/
        
       | al2o3cr wrote:
       | Re: people sharing screenshots of news sites
       | This arguably should make Meta subject to the requirements
       | of the Online News Act.
       | 
       | LOL gotta get rid of that last 15% of engagement, I guess. Maybe
       | ban even mentioning the NAMES of news outlets just to be sure /s
        
       | vlovich123 wrote:
       | > Almost one third of local news outlets are now inactive - The
       | ban has reshaped the media landscape in Canada, with 212 or
       | approximately 30% of local news outlets in Canada previously
       | active on social media now inactive.
       | 
       | Is this because these sites were already failing and failed
       | regardless of the ban? Or did they see enough of a drop in
       | engagement to matter? Or did this ban just help entrench the big
       | players at the expense of the smaller ones and forced
       | consolidation?
       | 
       | In other words, it's hard to draw conclusions of a larger story
       | just from raw data points.
        
         | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
         | Local news in Canada is in dire straights. Consolidation has
         | made it incredibly fragile or non existent in places, and the
         | government's solution is to always turn on a faucet of $$$ to
         | the entrenched media companies, only for them to back out or
         | disappear after the money runs dry.
         | 
         | The "outcome" of the bill and the deal with Google was
         | essentially a slush fund for entrenched media companies in
         | Canada. Instead of fostering competition, the government just
         | funnels more money into old guard monopolies, as is tradition
         | in Canada where monopolistic behaviour usually gets explicit
         | government endorsement.
         | 
         | Commentators and lawyers like Micheal Geist have argued for
         | years at this point that the ban and deal are blatantly
         | counterproductive to ensuring a functioning and competitive
         | news and media ecosystem.
        
         | bl4kers wrote:
         | This statement is too ambiguous. They could mean inactive from
         | social media or inactive as an organization.
        
       | nailer wrote:
       | > On August 1, 2023, in response to Bill C-18, Meta blocked
       | Canadians from viewing, accessing, and sharing news article links
       | on its platforms.
       | 
       | What makes a piece of content a news article? Is all written
       | content banned from Meta?
        
       | zmmmmm wrote:
       | Interesting point:
       | 
       | > Despite the ban, news organization content is still available
       | on Meta platforms through work-around strategies like
       | screengrabs, with 36% of Canadian users reporting encountering
       | news or links to news on Facebook or Instagram. This arguably
       | should make Meta subject to the requirements of the Online News
       | Act.
       | 
       | I wonder if this will be a new argument from the news media
       | lobbyists. It will loom as a new type of threat similar to
       | removal of safe harbour protections : if web sites have to take
       | full liability for what their users post and no amount of active
       | measures to prevent infringing content are sufficient to relieve
       | that, we arrive back at the end-game where user generated content
       | is just not viable except for the giant monopolists that can pay
       | off rights holders or defend against the liability.
        
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