[HN Gopher] Unprofessionalism (2013)
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       Unprofessionalism (2013)
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2024-08-01 14:27 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (allenpike.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (allenpike.com)
        
       | buescher wrote:
       | Contrast to this: https://philip.greenspun.com/seia/writeup
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | One way this manifests is in online profiles. You can have a
       | professional blog, where you discuss professional things like how
       | you squashed an annoying software bug or a little-known quirk of
       | your favorite language. The purpose of this is to bolster your
       | career prospects, although there can be sub-goals like forcing
       | yourself to learn a new thing.
       | 
       | And you can have a personal account where you anonymously discuss
       | things that are important to you. Maybe some of these things will
       | irritate some people. Most opinions that aren't completely banal
       | will.
       | 
       | And the two can never touch.
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | Here's to hoping mine here stays anonymous
        
           | jarsin wrote:
           | I didn't save the comment but a long time ago I saw an
           | account saying that there were people in google who could dox
           | their coworkers on hacker news.
           | 
           | When you click threads its shows username in the url, so if
           | you access at work someone could figure out who you are.
        
             | janalsncm wrote:
             | What do you mean? HN uses SSL so my understanding is the
             | network just sees requests to HN from your device. Of
             | course if you're logged in on a work device that's a
             | different story.
             | 
             | Also I suppose side channel attacks are possible but it
             | really depends on what your threat vector is.
        
               | jarsin wrote:
               | My bad you're correct. My impression was they were
               | implying it had something to do from within their setup
               | at work. Should have left my comment at that.
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | And then your opsec fails and the two touch.
        
           | shrimp_emoji wrote:
           | And then it blows up! https://youtu.be/uPG3YMcSvzo
        
         | dakiol wrote:
         | The problem usually lies in the intersection: you want to write
         | about an important work topic (management, broken tech
         | interviews).
        
           | janalsncm wrote:
           | It's going to be really juicy when Blind is hacked one day.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Discussed at the time:
       | 
       |  _Unprofessionalism_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961188 - Dec 2013 (87
       | comments)
        
       | josefritzishere wrote:
       | I consider blocking Nickelback a professional courtesy.
        
         | monksy wrote:
         | Personally I would consider it to be an effort towards world
         | peace but tomato tomatoh.
        
       | kerkeslager wrote:
       | So the example here is a feature that refuses to play Nickelback,
       | and the argument for this "unprofessional" feature is that it's
       | "human".
       | 
       | I don't care that it's "unprofessional"--I don't care about being
       | unprofessional at all. I care about doing what's right and kind.
       | And... this isn't kind, I think. It's just ganging up on
       | Nickelback and their fans with everyone else in 2013 when this
       | was written. I guess you could say this is human, but it's an
       | example of human's worse impulses to bully, albeit a minor one,
       | and it's not one I would want to lean into.
        
         | keybored wrote:
         | Right. A lot of things you do that are _huuuman_ are
         | "unprofessional" because they are inappropriate in a
         | "professional" setting even though they are kind gestures. Like
         | kissing someone.
         | 
         | But some have the attitude that "if you are not pissing some
         | people off you are not expressing yourself". Which is kind of
         | different.
        
         | monksy wrote:
         | I think your comment is a great example of a ruthless and
         | cuthtroat nature that we're seeing with "insensitivity pushed
         | policies". To call something unkind when making an option to
         | refuse to play nickleback is absurd and an overrecation.
         | 
         | Contextually (for those who didn't suffer through the
         | Nickleback age) Nickleback was a highly overplayed ban that
         | produced similarly sounding songs with very weak albums with
         | "one hit wonders". It spawned it's own genre called Butt Rock.
         | It's a sign of a monopoly held by the music industry to
         | influence what you heard and how much you heard it on the
         | radio.
         | 
         | https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Butt%20Rock
         | 
         | The way I see it is that the feature is a confirming nod to the
         | users' sense of humor and it gives an application a bit of
         | personality. We used to have easter eggs, boss modes, and
         | suprises in applications. (I think excel had a full on game
         | built in)
         | 
         | Now it's all about a commoditize labor pushing code out to
         | deliever underdeveloped features on an unreasonable timeline.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | > _To call something unkind when making an option to refuse
           | to play nickleback is absurd and an overrecation._
           | 
           | I don't agree, especially considering that the option was
           | enabled by default.
           | 
           | Taste is something that's often dear to a person, and telling
           | someone they have bad taste is rude.
           | 
           | I've been trying over time to stop saying "this sucks" and
           | instead say "I'm not a fan of this", when talking about
           | pretty much anything subjective that's a matter of taste:
           | music, TV, movies, art, food, architecture, etc. It's a way
           | to recognize that I'm not the absolute arbiter of taste, and
           | that what I like and don't like doesn't represent any sort of
           | absolute positive or negative about anything.
           | 
           | > _The way I see it is that the feature is a confirming nod
           | to the users ' sense of humor and it gives an application a
           | bit of personality._
           | 
           | No, it's a nod to the _developer 's_ sense of humor.
           | Regardless of Nickelback's provenance and their style of
           | music (I was not a fan of them back then, but, again, I'm not
           | the arbiter of what is good and bad, and neither are you),
           | there were some people who did genuinely like them. Shitting
           | on those people (especially when you're selling a product!)
           | is just tacky and rude.
           | 
           | > _We used to have easter eggs, boss modes, and suprises in
           | applications. (I think excel had a full on game built in)_
           | 
           | Yes, and, by and large, those things are positive, joyful
           | things. They weren't dissing a particular type of person who
           | likes a particular type of $THING or $ACTIVITY. And when they
           | were, they tended to fall flat, like this music app's unkind
           | option.
           | 
           | I agree that there are unfortunately fewer easter eggs out
           | there now, but I don't think that has anything to do with
           | whether or not this particular feature is a good or bad
           | easter egg.
           | 
           | I'll close with:
           | 
           | > _I think your comment is a great example of a ruthless and
           | cuthtroat nature that we 're seeing with "insensitivity
           | pushed policies". To call something unkind when making an
           | option to refuse to play nickleback is absurd and an
           | overrecation._
           | 
           | Maybe look in the mirror a for a bit; calling the GP's
           | comment "ruthless and cutthroat" is the real absurd
           | overreaction here.
        
             | azthecx wrote:
             | As an aside to changing your wording so slightly, everyone
             | with two fingers of forehead will very quickly determine
             | that whenever you say "this sucks" it's your biased
             | personal opinion. Maybe such a strong statement from you
             | will cause some people not to mention that they actually
             | like X but, functionally, they will just ignore your
             | opinion on this topic and move on.
        
               | kerkeslager wrote:
               | If someone goes out of their way to say Nickelback sucks,
               | sure, obviously that's their biased personal opinion. But
               | the bias that leads to saying Nickelback sucks is going
               | to show up in all sorts of other areas and cause much
               | worse problems.
               | 
               | If you hate Nickelback because it's popular to hate
               | Nickelback, I have to wonder what other things do you
               | hate because it's popular to hate them?
        
               | monksy wrote:
               | (cause much worse problems) Like what, making Chad Kuger
               | make more IG reels where he's annoyed by still touring
               | and people who don't go shitting on the band?
        
             | monksy wrote:
             | > Taste is something that's often dear to a person, and
             | telling someone they have bad taste is rude.
             | 
             | The perception of rude is in the eye of the
             | beholder.(Within context of course)
             | 
             | I could see a much better argument here if this was for a
             | specific small struggling artist. But we're not, we're
             | talking about a multi-platinum RIAA over promoted band.
             | 
             | > I've been trying over time to stop saying "this sucks"
             | and instead say "I'm not a fan of this", when talking about
             | pretty much anything subjective that's a matter of taste:
             | music, TV, movies, art, food, architecture, etc. It's a way
             | to recognize that I'm not the absolute arbiter of taste,
             | and that what I like and don't like doesn't represent any
             | sort of absolute positive or negative about anything.
             | 
             | Congrats. I think it is great that you're self
             | acknowledging and modifying your own behavior. However,
             | your decision not to put in a harsh description of your
             | opinion "this sucks" comes off as an insecurity rather than
             | an improvement. You're softing your language over fear of
             | perception. It's not adding anything to the conversation.
             | 
             | Tell me that Scala sucks... I won't take offense. Telling
             | me it sucks tells me you've had experience here and there
             | were things that you really didn't like. This leads me to
             | ask "why? what happened?"
             | 
             | Tell me that you're not a fan of scala... this comes of as
             | a thing that you didn't even try here. You don't even have
             | an emotional response enough to indicate that you had any
             | investment into it.
             | 
             | > not the arbiter of what is good and bad,
             | 
             | Yea you are. Your decisions, your preferences, your
             | experiences shape that. You're not what many would be
             | considered to be a trusted arbiter.
             | 
             | -----
             | 
             | Where I was going with the easter egg and
             | ruthless/cutthroat commentary: What I'm talking about is
             | that we're seeing applications that are extremely ridged,
             | minimally featured only for their value on the market, and
             | we're seeing an elimination of the individual who created
             | them. Saying that a "ban nickleback option" is unkind is
             | promoting the idea that the creator should not be perceived
             | as unkind.
        
           | kerkeslager wrote:
           | > I think your comment is a great example of a ruthless and
           | cuthtroat nature that we're seeing with "insensitivity pushed
           | policies". To call something unkind when making an option to
           | refuse to play nickleback is absurd and an overrecation.
           | 
           | 1. You don't know me at all if you think I'm pushing
           | "insensitivity pushed policies". I'm not pushing "policies"
           | at all, I'm encouraging people to be kind and to use their
           | brains to figure out what "kind" is, instead of piling onto
           | hating something.
           | 
           | 2. You drastically overestimated the tone of my post if you
           | think it's "ruthless and cutthroat". I don't think it's kind
           | to ridicule a band or it's fans, but it's not that big a
           | deal. Remember where I said, "albeit a minor one"?
           | 
           | If hating something as bland as Nickelback is the hill you
           | choose to die on, I dunno man, maybe pick better battles?
           | 
           | > Contextually (for those who didn't suffer through the
           | Nickleback age) Nickleback was a highly overplayed ban that
           | produced similarly sounding songs with very weak albums with
           | "one hit wonders". It spawned it's own genre called Butt
           | Rock. It's a sign of a monopoly held by the music industry to
           | influence what you heard and how much you heard it on the
           | radio.
           | 
           | Eh, I wouldn't say I like Nickelback; their music bores me a
           | bit. But a) they're people, and b) people are allowed to like
           | what they like.
           | 
           | > The way I see it is that the feature is a confirming nod to
           | the users' sense of humor and it gives an application a bit
           | of personality. We used to have easter eggs, boss modes, and
           | suprises in applications. (I think excel had a full on game
           | built in)
           | 
           | Yeah, and those things are pretty different from a mean-
           | spirited joke at someone else's expense.
           | 
           | > Now it's all about a commoditize labor pushing code out to
           | deliever underdeveloped features on an unreasonable timeline.
           | 
           | Bro, look at my comment history. I'm definitely not about
           | commoditizing labor. :D
        
         | dleink wrote:
         | I don't think it's necessarily "bullying", but if you want to
         | include humor in your product, it should be original or at
         | least funny. Ragging on nickelback was a hack joke then as it
         | is now. Porkbun is a great example of a company doing humor
         | well.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | Couldn't agree more. The kind of "unprofessionalism" that
         | brings us easter eggs and silly features should come from a
         | place of positivity and joy, not from a place of negativity and
         | unkindness to others.
         | 
         | I wouldn't add a feature like this simply because it's not nice
         | to mock people, regardless of what I think about the music they
         | like.
        
         | lliamander wrote:
         | "Kind" is at best a context-dependent virtue. There are plenty
         | of situations where being critical or divisive is the right
         | thing.
         | 
         | And even when the harshness doesn't come from the best place,
         | we still need it to some extent or we become fragile and blind
         | to our own flaws.
        
           | kerkeslager wrote:
           | > "Kind" is at best a context-dependent virtue. There are
           | plenty of situations where being critical or divisive is the
           | right thing.
           | 
           | Obviously.
           | 
           | Is hating Nickelback one of those situations?
           | 
           | > And even when the harshness doesn't come from the best
           | place, we still need it to some extent or we become fragile
           | and blind to our own flaws.
           | 
           | That's a fairly nuance-less view of kindness. Criticism, in
           | the right context, _is_ kind--it 's not kindness to let
           | problems stagnate when they can be fixed. For example, that
           | is why I decided to criticize the author of this blog post.
           | 
           | But hating Nickelback, especially when it's just dogpiling
           | onto a frankly boring meme, isn't trying to fix any flaw or
           | problem. It's just being a dick in a way that it's popular to
           | be a dick, because you can't be arsed to think for yourself
           | about your own actions.
        
       | drewcoo wrote:
       | More gatekeeping. Rules written on the fly by gatekeeper taste-
       | makers.
        
       | misanthr0pe wrote:
       | if you love nickelback just slide the option off. this is a non-
       | issue. its a friggin joke and i think its funny, whoever the band
       | is.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | Better to be funny, quirky or 'unprofessional' without being mean
       | (e.g. to Nickelback and their fans).
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Nah, the old world of software development had easter eggs and
       | shit. It's all right. They can exist in non-critical software.
       | The world won't end. Let some people get upset. All that will
       | happen is that they'll get you some publicity on social media.
       | Who cares about them.
        
       | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
       | Where does professionalism ends and corporate soulless behaviour
       | begins?
       | 
       | Anyway, this particular example is the textbook definition of
       | "you can't please everybody": on one hand, you'll have the usual
       | radical relativists banging on their "de gustibus non est
       | disputandum" drum and the "no fun allowed" corpo-drone crowd, and
       | on the other people finding it funny and bold in today's
       | generalized lack of risk taking.
        
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