[HN Gopher] Is A.I. Art Stealing from Artists?
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       Is A.I. Art Stealing from Artists?
        
       Author : teddyh
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2024-07-31 22:01 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | (2023) Discussions (19+16 points, 1 year ago, 90+16 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34751031
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34744059
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | This post is from 2023, and the mentioned lawsuit is still
       | ongoing, with the last update in May 2024 saying the lawsuit can
       | go forward: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/stability-
       | ai-midjou...
        
       | petesergeant wrote:
       | I have to believe the answer will be found to be yes, but,
       | unencumbered or appropriately licensed datasets will show up (and
       | are probably being actively sourced by major players). I have
       | some sympathy for artists whose style can be mimicked by people
       | just name-checking them.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | You've never been able to copyright a style though.
        
           | dartos wrote:
           | No, but a style has also never been able to be automatically
           | extracted and packaged as a product in and of itself.
        
           | colonelspace wrote:
           | But if I create a magic box that generates work in the style
           | of a specific artist, based on me feeding that artist's work
           | into the magic box, then sell access to the output of the
           | magic box, notably output that results from a request using
           | the artist's name, that seems to deprive the artist of
           | something, based on my use of the artist's work.
           | 
           | Copyright isn't really the issue, it's a company exploiting
           | the work of others. It's literally the only value of the
           | magic box.
        
             | IncreasePosts wrote:
             | That's how human brains work too. There are people who can
             | mimic styles very well. They need to be "fed" the style
             | first though.
        
               | digging wrote:
               | Scale and availability matter
        
               | Pet_Ant wrote:
               | So if you put one buggy whip maker out of work a year,
               | it's okay. But if you put hundreds of over the course of
               | a couple of years, now it's wrong? Cars must be illegal.
               | 
               | When have we ever put the scope of the impact as part of
               | the judgement of the legality of disruptive businesses?
               | When did the impact of WalMart on small businesses matter
               | legally, or Amazon on independent bookstores, or iTunes
               | music store on independent music stores, or Netflix on
               | video rental stores? Or NAFTA on American factory
               | workers?
               | 
               | Sorry, I don't buy the argument that the scale of the
               | impact transformative impacts the question of legality;
               | it never has before.
               | 
               | If you are talking about the social problem of skilled
               | people willing to work who cannot find meaningful
               | employment: well, let's address that directly, but not by
               | banning generative AI.
        
               | dj_mc_merlin wrote:
               | > it never has before.
               | 
               | Look up the Digital Markets Act.
        
               | colonelspace wrote:
               | Is it how human brains work? Even if it is, why does that
               | make it ok on an industrial scale?
        
               | dj_mc_merlin wrote:
               | Yes but a human brain needs years of training to to get
               | the basic skills, and further needs to refine on a
               | specific style which can take anywhere from days to
               | months/years depending on prior experience. There are
               | also social connotations that apply to humans that come
               | with copying another artist's style. AI can do it
               | 10x-100x quicker and the copier can remain completely
               | anonymous much easier. This changes the dynamics.
        
               | amonith wrote:
               | Individuals are allowed to do that by law. Companies
               | cannot do that to create commercial products. They need
               | to obtain relevant permissions / licenses from the
               | creators first.
        
               | taylorius wrote:
               | This is true - but such artists can't create a new one
               | every few seconds. A change in scale is a change in kind.
               | Such "democratization" is, in my view, rather demeaning
               | to an artist, who doubtless worked hard to develop a new
               | style, only to have their work digested by the machines
               | and a million imitators pop up almost immediately.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | The last time I saw someone doing this the human artist
               | was about as hated as AI is. They intentionally mimicked
               | the style of a specific other artist which directly
               | impacted the other artist's sales and also mental health
        
             | petesergeant wrote:
             | Yeah, I think that's it. I think there's a difference in
             | the machine deriving "labial flower paintings" from first
             | principles and having been trained with a bunch of pictures
             | tagged as Georgia O'Keefe and spitting them out when
             | someone asks for a picture in her style
        
       | breck wrote:
       | Anyone who thinks ideas can be stolen suffers from "IPDD":
       | 
       | https://breckyunits.com/ipdd.html
       | 
       | We should feel bad for these people, and help guide them to the
       | light, otherwise they will go extinct.
        
         | nuforia wrote:
         | You seem to be suffering from RAD
        
       | ravenstine wrote:
       | If AI art is stealing then perhaps a significant number of us
       | should be behind bars right now.
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | Tons of people on HN love to downplay ANY serious problem with
         | AI and I am here for it. Very amusing
         | 
         | And always the same arguments too -- not much detail but just
         | throw & go LOL
        
         | amonith wrote:
         | "AI art is stealing" is an oversimplification of "companies are
         | stealing unlicensed user generated content to create a
         | commercial product" which is absolutely true. Nobody grants
         | commercial use rights to their output by default, you have to
         | ask for that.
         | 
         | Nobody cares that humans learn in principle the same way as AI.
         | Law - which is meant to protect and help individuals to foster
         | healthy competition & innovation without disrupting the social
         | order + prevent monopolies - allows that. Large corporate
         | entities should not be allowed to use that unlicensed content
         | the same way. That's it. That's the whole point. Content was
         | stolen to create commercial AI products.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | This question is increasingly equivalent to asking if everyone is
       | stealing from everyone else. The short answer is no. But it is
       | possible that a lot of activities will become impossible to do if
       | their value is moved to some AI
        
       | moose44 wrote:
       | A photocopier isn't an artist, even if it can re-create the Mona
       | Lisa.
        
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