[HN Gopher] Diffusion Training from Scratch on a Micro-Budget
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       Diffusion Training from Scratch on a Micro-Budget
        
       Author : fzliu
       Score  : 200 points
       Date   : 2024-07-30 03:19 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | orbital-decay wrote:
       | Reminds me of PixArt-a which was also trained on the similarly
       | tiny budget ($28,000). [0] How good is their result, though?
       | Training a toy model is one thing, making something usable (let
       | alone competitive) is another.
       | 
       | Edit: they do have comparisons in the paper, and PixArt-a seems
       | to be... more coherent?
       | 
       | [0] https://pixart-alpha.github.io/
        
         | daghamm wrote:
         | They mention that as state of the art, this one is supposed to
         | be 14-18x better.
         | 
         | By the way, has anyone ran these locally? Is the inference time
         | also lower?
        
       | p1esk wrote:
       | Interesting - they say using FP8 didn't provide any speed up.
        
       | Flux159 wrote:
       | This kind of research is great for reducing training costs as
       | well as enabling more people to experiment with training large
       | models. Hopefully in 5-10 years we'll be able to train a model on
       | par with SD 1.5 with consumer gpus since that would be great for
       | teaching model development.
        
         | Blackthorn wrote:
         | Getting parity with SD 1.5 should require a similarly
         | comprehensive data set, which seems a lot harder to source than
         | a computer GPU. Especially now that we've got the A
         | I-equivalent of pre/post nuclear steel.
        
           | roenxi wrote:
           | Given how little artistic data humans need, there are
           | probably breakthroughs coming that will reduce the size of
           | the data set needed. Or make it so that a lot of the data
           | required is more generic (like how a human artist needs vast
           | amounts of audio-visual data from walking around every day,
           | but maybe as little as a few megabytes to go from nothing to
           | copying a new style and subject - then we can have a curated
           | open source "highlights of the first 20 years of life" data
           | set that everyone uses for basic training).
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | > Getting parity with SD 1.5 should require a similarly
           | comprehensive data set, which seems a lot harder to source
           | 
           | Wasn't SD1.5 trained on LAION? So we know what it was and you
           | could recreate it.
           | 
           | Although I thought LAION was why SD1.5 is kinda ugly at base
           | settings because LAION is just random images both good and
           | bad content and quality not aesthetic and high quality
           | images.
        
             | philipkglass wrote:
             | The LAION datasets don't contain actual images, but URLs
             | pointing to images. Due to link rot and deliberate scraper-
             | blocking it may be difficult to download LAION images to
             | retrain a model to match SD 1.5.
        
         | thomashop wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure we are looking at something like 12 months. Not
         | 5-10 years.
         | 
         | Pixart and this paper are good data points. Another even just
         | 50x reduction in cost will make it possible on consumer
         | hardware easily. This paper already claims over 100x reduction
        
           | pk-protect-ai wrote:
           | I hope that somewhere around that period of time we will have
           | AI-based "game" engines working at 30-40fps at 4K (of course
           | with upscaling). I mean it might not be game engines per se,
           | but universal, interactive pipelines for audio-visual content
           | creation/consumption. Because right now I do not see any hope
           | of such engines due to the number of models involved and the
           | latencies this implies.
        
       | worstspotgain wrote:
       | Asymptotic improvements are flattening the cost curves so fast
       | that AI regulation might become practically meaningless by the
       | end of the year. If you want unregulated output you'll have tons
       | of offshore models to choose from.
       | 
       | The risk is that the good guys end up being the only ones
       | hampered by it. Hopefully it won't be so large a burden that the
       | bad guys and especially the so-so guys (those with a real chance,
       | e.g. Alibaba) get a massive leg up.
        
         | FeepingCreature wrote:
         | Unregulated output at small scales. The really big training
         | runs will still cost millions.
        
           | worstspotgain wrote:
           | Not when we're talking asymptotically. The linked paper for
           | instance claims 14- to 118-fold cost reductions. 1-2 GPU
           | generations from now you'll train this model for $0.12.
        
             | impossiblefork wrote:
             | Surely not $0.12.
             | 
             | Maybe $100.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | People are casually dropping thousands on cloud GPUs
               | making random fine tunes over at r/localllama, the
               | threshold will be met far sooner. Plus datacenters
               | selling away their collection of A100s and eventually
               | H100s when they become EoL for their standards.
        
               | impossiblefork wrote:
               | Yes, but that doesn't mean that things are suddenly
               | incredibly cheap. It just means that people have
               | hardware.
               | 
               | $0.12 I feel is extremely superlative and I feel that
               | $100 is more reasonable.
        
         | uyzstvqs wrote:
         | > Asymptotic improvements are flattening the cost curves so
         | fast that AI regulation might become practically meaningless by
         | the end of the year.
         | 
         | Awesome. This will mean actually good open-source models, not
         | just API endpoints by big tech which are unusable because of
         | dataset censorship and bias alignment (SD3, Gemini).
         | 
         | In other words, big tech will actually need to make good stuff
         | to be competitive, not trash protected by a granted monopoly.
        
           | sigmoid10 wrote:
           | Those improvements are definitely real, but we also have
           | pretty solidly established and confirmed scaling laws by now.
           | Until someone utterly breaks those, big players will always
           | have an edge, simply because they can spend more compute on
           | training and inference. The only way to change this is with a
           | new architecture that benefits more from intelligent
           | adjustments in a space than cannot be searched efficiently
           | with raw compute. And even then we are not far from the point
           | where these models could try out those adjustments
           | themselves. So by the time you get to tune your own GAI in
           | your home like you could do with a human, corporations might
           | have millions of them improving themselves to something you
           | could never achieve on your own.
        
             | worstspotgain wrote:
             | We're still in phase 1, where human-directed improvement
             | has the highest potential. Papers are still getting
             | published and the cells interlinked. (I'm not sure the
             | scaling picture is at all clear, given that papers like
             | this can turn up casually with 15x savings, but let's put
             | that aside for now.)
             | 
             | Phase 2 begins when patents break stealth, unsettling the
             | picture. If some patent impairs research or operations in
             | IP-solid countries, the lower-level stuff might move to
             | local inference, and maybe some minor Pirate Bay-style
             | outfits.
             | 
             | Phase 3 begins when the costly research goes dark (well,
             | darker.) Everyone is Apple now. The research papers are
             | replaced by white papers, then by PR communiques.
             | 
             | Phase 4 begins when the AI AI researchers take over. The
             | old AI researchers turn into their managers.
             | 
             | Some of the path is compute-bound. Some of it is IP-,
             | luck-, and genius-bound.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | You can't really stop it at this point anyway without
         | completely locking down any code that resembles AI at a
         | processor level to only signed and allowed models and making
         | owning hardware before the lock illegal and destroying any
         | thats ceased.
        
           | pk-protect-ai wrote:
           | Please, don't give them ideas!!!!
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | Who are the good guys and bad guys again?
        
           | benopal64 wrote:
           | I almost commented the same thing. Framing things as
           | "good/bad/so-so" is kind of moving the target. If we are
           | focusing on who might use the model, rather than considering
           | that when focusing on a model that accurately represents
           | reality and altruistically aids humans... we will lose sight
           | of the really valuable things in life. The reality is that I
           | do not think that people are good/so-so/bad as humans are
           | equipped with extremely complex and diverse adaptive systems
           | with near-limitless capabilities. Sure, I am just re-framing,
           | however from my perspective, we are not reducing humans to
           | "good/bad/so-so."
           | 
           | What does HK think?
        
       | sorenjan wrote:
       | One thing I've wondered about is fine tuning a large model from
       | multiple LoRAs. If the model doesn't fit in your vram you can
       | train a LoRA, apply it to the model, train another LoRA from the
       | same data, apply it, and so on. Iterative low rank parameter
       | updates. Would that work?
        
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