[HN Gopher] The secret of Minecraft (2014)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The secret of Minecraft (2014)
        
       Author : prawn
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2024-07-24 20:26 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
        
       | cedws wrote:
       | Call me a hater but I think Microsoft ruined Minecraft. The
       | "secret knowledge" that the author describes is no longer a
       | thing. The game shows you all the recipes. There are way too many
       | blocks now so there's not as much need for creativity in
       | building.
       | 
       | Simplicity made Minecraft a true sandbox. There was no real
       | objective, just blocks and ways to arrange them. Now there's
       | always an objective to get the next magic/powerful item.
        
         | amiantos wrote:
         | It is interesting that despite the overwhelming success of
         | Minecraft, Microsoft/the team building it still felt that it
         | needed to have a full tutorial system and overarching story
         | objectives tacked on it to further encourage players to get
         | hooked on it if the open-ended aspect of it didn't appeal.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | After you've already attracted all of your primary audience,
           | all you have left for growth are non-primary audiences.
           | 
           | See also: bands pivoting from niche to mass market genres
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | I never understood the appeal of having game knowledge on a
         | separate websites.
         | 
         | I can understand this situation happening because of lack of
         | development resources. Like - yeah, it's easier to just let the
         | community to write the documentation and concentrate on the
         | game, if you're small company.
         | 
         | But why would it appeal to the actual players? It's not really
         | secret knowledge, there are wiki websites with all the recipes.
        
           | AuryGlenz wrote:
           | You know, for younger kids I can see the appeal. They might
           | not have a device they can easily use to go on the internet,
           | so you'd be able to do things your friends can't and vice
           | versa.
           | 
           | I've long mulled on the idea of some kind of game where large
           | aspects of it are randomized/generated so that no two
           | installations would have the same stuff, recipes, whatever. I
           | think that'd be neat and get rid of the website issue.
        
             | jbmny wrote:
             | Reminds me of the fatalities in Mortal Kombat growing up.
             | All the regular moves were in the manual, but IIRC the
             | fatalities were not. It was a form of secret knowledge, and
             | it was really cool if you knew one. Granted, this was right
             | before the Internet-connected home computer became
             | ubiquitous.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | GameFAQs very quickly democratized game knowledge the way
               | Wikipedia did for general knowledge a handful of years
               | later. I learned the infinite 1up stair trick in Mario[0]
               | from a sibling before that, but had the most fun with
               | stuff I could look up.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQCSEcyGQH4
        
           | throwuxiytayq wrote:
           | It's bad design and it was annoying already back when
           | Minecraft was still young. The article author gets this
           | hilariously wrong. He claims that he is "obsessed" with
           | Minecraft, but later admits that they haven't played the game
           | much. I knew that before I even got to that paragraph...
        
             | bluefirebrand wrote:
             | I think maybe the author means they are obsessed with
             | something about Minecraft, the success story, the cultural
             | impact, something like that. Not necessarily obsessed with
             | playing it
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | Especially when the goto gaming wiki site host is straight-up
           | internet cancer.
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | The appeal of having it on a wiki is that you can browse to
           | related items and topics that can inform how you play the
           | game. Serendipitous discovery of information, something the
           | internet used to enable.
        
           | Medox wrote:
           | How else would you find the knowledge if not through separate
           | websites, when using the Web Displays Mod [1] in game? /s
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-m2dH4LEw
        
           | hluska wrote:
           | I like it because you don't have to consult those resources.
           | If you like, you can figure out the game completely as you
           | go.
        
         | eBombzor wrote:
         | The end game thing was added years before Microsoft bought
         | them. But I agree, the simplicity is no longer there.
        
         | GaggiX wrote:
         | >The "secret knowledge" that the author describes is no longer
         | a thing. The game shows you all the recipes.
         | 
         | It does show the recipes you have unlocked (e.g. by mining a
         | particular one that makes them), I'm glad they did that, it's
         | much less painful for a new player and for the viewers of that
         | new player (I like watching people play a game they've never
         | played before).
        
         | Version467 wrote:
         | Nah. Microsoft did a great job handling Minecraft imo. I
         | thought they were out of their mind paying that much money for
         | something that I didn't think had many opportunities left to
         | grow.
         | 
         | But now I think it was the perfect time for Persson and his
         | team to give it to someone with the resources and the reach to
         | _make_ those opportunities. Yes, Microsoft changed some things
         | about Minecraft the game, but overall they didn 't touch the
         | core gameplay loop. Instead they focused on expanding the
         | minecraft universe with genre crossing spinoff games and
         | cooperations that the old Mojang could've never done. And kids
         | loved most of it. Stuff like Minecraft: Story Mode added a
         | richness to the franchise that you could completely ignore if
         | you wanted to, or dive into if it appealed to you.
         | 
         | Microsoft grew Minecraft because it still had a lot of growth
         | in it. It might clash with your nostalgia, but it evolved such
         | that it still broadly appealed to its growing core audience.
         | And that is and always has been children. And children still
         | love Minecraft.
        
           | codeulike wrote:
           | Underrated thing Microsoft have done is allow Bedrock to
           | cross-play between Windows, IOS, Playstation, Switch and XBox
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | Nah. Microsoft did a great job handling Minecraft imo.
           | 
           | I am still peeved that my lifetime license "mysteriously"
           | broke during Microsoft's account transitions. Trillion dollar
           | company lacks the manpower and technical capability to handle
           | it? Or someone cannot be arsed to maintain "freeloader"
           | customers.
        
             | herbst wrote:
             | Same here. Had one of the first few thousand accounts.
             | Since Microsoft took over:
             | 
             | - it got hacked. Got it back but name was changed, history
             | not perfect anymore
             | 
             | - much later somehow lost my account due to me trying to
             | keep my old account I guess. Whatever I wasnt noticed that
             | my account is going to die. It just did. Microsoft support
             | also never answered to my request getting it back
             | 
             | - Never played Minecraft again
        
             | kenmorechalfant wrote:
             | Oh man, I guess I was so angry about that at some point I
             | blocked it out. My dumb ass actually bought a 2nd account
             | because I couldn't convince my friends to play with me
             | until it was free. After MSFT purchased Minecraft I could
             | never recover either of those accounts!
        
             | Version467 wrote:
             | Yeah, that's fair. That was just a shitty thing to do. I
             | was more focusing on the creative development that
             | Minecraft saw under Microsoft.
             | 
             | Fandoms are often extremely nervous when a large
             | corporation buys the rights to a beloved media ip, largely
             | because this has gone wrong so many times, with poor
             | adaptions or obvious cashgrabs milking a property until the
             | fanbase turns away.
             | 
             | This really hasn't happened to Minecraft. It grew further
             | in popularity, even though it was already massively popular
             | at the time and it did it mostly without driving away the
             | existing fans. That in itself is quite unusual (I think)
             | and definitely not what I would have expected. At the time
             | I really thought that the sale would mark the beginning of
             | Minecraft's slow descent into irrelevancy and I definitely
             | remember that being a fairly common sentiment.
             | 
             | But I fully understand people being mad at the license
             | issues you mention. They should be. Might not have been
             | illegal, but that was essentially theft.
        
           | kenmorechalfant wrote:
           | Minecraft STILL doesn't have a lot of stuff Notch was
           | planning on adding. Instead of becoming an actual living
           | breathing world you want to explore more they focus on
           | premium skins and an occasional update with mostly
           | bewildering content. Usually big projects like movies and
           | games have a director(s) with a grand vision. Notch had a
           | vision but he gave up on it for money. Microsoft's only
           | vision for Minecraft has ever been sponsorship deals and
           | merch. Honestly, I feel more betrayed by Notch than by
           | Microsoft.
        
             | Version467 wrote:
             | > Notch had a vision but he gave up on it for money.
             | 
             | That's certainly one way to see it, but I don't think Notch
             | was ever really in a position to turn some of his more
             | grand ideas for the game into a reality. Not because he
             | couldn't afford it, but because he didn't have the skill
             | (or interest) in leading a Studio that's much bigger than
             | ~20 people. From everything I've read about him it seems
             | like he never liked any of the additional responsibilities
             | that came with Minecrafts growing success and there are
             | some accounts from some early members of the team that seem
             | to corroborate this.
             | 
             | So I really don't think he sold out. I think he realized
             | that he couldn't be the person to manage Minecrafts
             | generational success and that he'd rather have 2 billion
             | dollars in exchange for giving another company a shot at
             | that, versus not having that money and then seeing himself
             | fail to bring his ideas to fruition.
             | 
             | In the end that's of course just speculation. It could just
             | as well be that he never had any of those thoughts and just
             | fucked off, laughing all the way to the bank and then to
             | the biggest hollywood mansion that money can buy. In that
             | case I'm still glad that he got the bag from Microsoft,
             | because I can imagine much worse ways that this could've
             | gone.
        
         | hoten wrote:
         | Hardly anyone interacted with the crafting system via
         | "discovery mode". Almost everyone consulted a wiki, or I guess
         | had a friend tell you what to do. Stumbling upon how to make an
         | axe without looking it up has got to be the least enjoyable
         | part of Minecraft (note: not saying it's NOT enjoyable, it's
         | just not high up on the list for most).
        
           | grape_surgeon wrote:
           | For me, I just don't really care about needing to discover
           | everything myself. Discovering things like that takes time.
           | If I play a game, I want to get the maximum intended
           | experience from it without dragging things out while being
           | confused. Does that "ruin" the experience? I don't really
           | care if it does
        
           | jasonjayr wrote:
           | In the early days of NES (8-bit console) a lot of discovery
           | about the games came from community, looking things up in
           | various magazines, or just talking with your peers.
           | 
           | There is value ot be had in sticking to that stance: It
           | encourages social interaction, but more importantly for the
           | bottom line, people are talking about your game. That
           | Minecraft is now a multi-generation thing, there's a lot of
           | people to talk to about it!
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | Microsoft's stewardship of Minecraft has been fantastic.
         | 
         | Simplicity has never been a key element of Minecraft - redstone
         | circuits were added years before the acquisition.
         | 
         | The sheer quantity of weird and delightful stuff they've added
         | has kept Minecraft new and interesting for over a decade.
        
           | bluefirebrand wrote:
           | Tbh Microsoft hasn't done anything near as impressive as the
           | modding community. It's nice that they are still developing
           | the Java edition so the modding community can continue though
           | 
           | Check out the Create mod
           | 
           | If Microsoft ever adds anything as cool as that to Minecraft,
           | I may agree with you that they are keeping it new and
           | interesting
        
             | tialaramex wrote:
             | I don't think it would ever "work" for Minecraft to attempt
             | something like one of the big mods. Even "Better Than
             | Wolves" which most people have been exposed to via packs
             | with a later, richer "Better With Mods" is sort of giving
             | the game away. Yes, the things "Better Than Wolves" did are
             | better than what Minecraft itself delivered in that
             | timeframe (Wolves, duh) but often what Minecraft's devs are
             | doing is fundamental, infrastructure work. Mojang and then
             | Microsoft make two kinds of ore, and then add a third,
             | boring - but modders couldn't have added six hundred more
             | kinds of ore without that. The built-in biomes are fine but
             | they're not as radical as anything modders have done - but
             | modders couldn't have added new biomes without that
             | infrastructure.
             | 
             | I think Mojang and Microsoft have been very good at
             | sketching in new ideas, enriching the concept rather than
             | refining all the details.
             | 
             | They've also been good, because it's easier for a
             | corporation, at completion. Anybody still waiting for
             | Jaded's Agrarian Skies 2 ? How about for a meaningful end
             | to Twilight Forest ? Modern packs tend to play the non-
             | ending of Twilight Forest as if that's normal - gating
             | further progress on the Magic Lamp for example, or just
             | putting everything after the Trolls as optional - but
             | wandering around the final castle it's obvious this just
             | isn't finished.
             | 
             | I play almost exclusively modded, mostly ascend-to-godhood
             | type packs, and it's still very noticeable how different a
             | modern pack is (based on modern Minecraft) than the 1.7 era
             | packs we started out playing, because the base game is
             | significantly better.
        
         | sweca wrote:
         | 1.8.9 is the best version. It's the calm before the storm.
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | Yeah, 1.9 added shields.
        
             | sweca wrote:
             | And that awful PvP upgrade. Although that's probably an
             | unpopular opinion.
        
               | itronitron wrote:
               | I was playing a lot of UHC at the time and everyone
               | universally hated the 1.9 update.
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | Agreed. I could write a 10 page essay about all the subtle ways
         | minecraft has lost a lot of its original appeal since I first
         | played it 14 years ago, but a few people have already done it
         | for me in video format:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KqeLT-EOe0
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbFUK3r8GGU
        
         | crngefest wrote:
         | Just play an old version like 1.12 - IMO it's the version that
         | has most of the quality of life stuff like elytra but not too
         | many new blocks
        
       | HuoKnight wrote:
       | The article says that there is no built in tutorial or guide, but
       | that isn't true. For as long as I have played the game, there has
       | been the basic prompts that tell you to cut down a tree and make
       | a crafting table. Accessible from the inventory or crafting table
       | are recipes for every single item you can craft with the
       | materials you have found. That's all the guide you need, as the
       | rest is sandbox. All the progression can be discovered and needs
       | no guide, though people usually use guides anyways.
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | I only remember Minecraft from when it had no built in
         | tutorials what so ever. Seems that has changed now at least,
         | for better or worse.
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | > Accessible from the inventory or crafting table are recipes
         | for every single item you can craft with the materials you have
         | found.
         | 
         | That wasn't there at first. I'm not sure when it was added, but
         | this article is from 10 years ago, and I wouldn't be surprised
         | if it hadn't been added yet.
        
         | TheCleric wrote:
         | If memory serves, those things were added shortly after this
         | was written, sometime after Microsoft purchased Minecraft.
         | 
         | Before it was "put you in a world, give you no instructions,
         | and you have to figure out which items to place in specific
         | position in a 2x2 or 3x3 grid to craft something (or read it
         | online)."
        
         | phit_ wrote:
         | well the recipe book was only added in 2017, almost 8 years
         | after the game was released.. so you haven't been playing that
         | long
        
           | phit_ wrote:
           | hints like chopping wood were also added later in 2017
        
       | diggan wrote:
       | > The genius of Minecraft is that the game does not specify how
       | this is done.
       | 
       | Is this still true? Long time ago I last played Minecraft, but
       | it's terrible common for games to change to be more mass-market
       | friendly when bought by larger companies (Microsoft in this
       | case), so it would surprise me if its still like that.
        
         | HuoKnight wrote:
         | It tells you to cut down a tree and make a crafting table,
         | beyond that there isn't anything (bedrock edition may be
         | different I haven't touched it in a while)
        
       | opan wrote:
       | For other "wiki games", I would recommend Terraria and Stardew
       | Valley. Both have very rich wikis you can read for hours that
       | will give you a much better understanding of game mechanics. I've
       | also gotten into the habit of keeping a txt file for a game open
       | in vim with notes on what I'm working on or what to work on next
       | time I play. For Stardew it's stuff like "Kent's birthday is
       | coming up, give him x item", or "catch/grow this before season
       | ends". A lot of it gets deleted as I finish it, but I've also
       | been thinking I should maybe flesh out a basic skeleton of
       | important things to do on a new run so that I can get a refresher
       | if I don't play for a long time.
       | 
       | I think I plan less with Terraria than Stardew since the passing
       | of time doesn't matter much at all comparatively, but I still
       | consult the wiki constantly to see where to get an item or what a
       | monster drops and so on. I've got over 1000 hours in Terraria,
       | but some of this stuff is just a bit much to remember, plus it
       | can change slightly from game updates.
       | 
       | Both games have a lot of informational YouTube videos as well.
       | All the videos of beginner tips are what finally got Stardew to
       | click for me after owning it for years but failing to get into
       | it. I went from taking months or years away from the game within
       | the first Spring to finally getting sucked in enough to finish
       | the rest of my first year within a few weeks IRL time.
       | 
       | While some people probably think it's a chore to do all this work
       | outside the game, I see it similarly to the author in the
       | article, I think it enriches the experience. It also gives you a
       | way to think about the game and get better at it while it's not
       | even open. I don't like to open Stardew unless I'm prepared to
       | play multiple hours in a row, but I can read the wiki and jot
       | down some notes for a few minutes at any time.
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | Not to ick anyone's yum, but when games begin to approach the
         | same parts of my brain that I use for work, I question why I'm
         | not just using them to make more money instead.
         | 
         | But said as an ex-EVE player, so color comment to taste.
        
           | Carlseymanh wrote:
           | I cannot think of any game that could approximate a full-time
           | job as much as EVE (I am currently obsessed with factorio,
           | which I play after working for 8 hours on production line
           | automation systems)
        
             | hoten wrote:
             | Oh boy. Do many of your colleagues play, or at least
             | understand your obsession? this reminds me of truckers
             | playing trucking games in their rigs during downtime.
        
           | scubbo wrote:
           | I've heard it said that there are two kinds of Software
           | Engineers when it comes to Factorio.
           | 
           | There's one category who say "this is just like work, but I'm
           | not getting paid to do it; why would I do this?"
           | 
           | Then there's the other who say "this is all the bits I enjoy
           | of work, with a faster and more direct feedback loop and
           | without all the admin/management/other-people bullshit; I
           | want to do this for the rest of my life"
           | 
           | I am very much in the latter camp, but I can absolutely
           | understand the former.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | Option 3: "Solving these problems would be fun except they
             | are too reminiscent of all the broken buggy real-world
             | products that I came here to temporarily forget."
        
           | oasisaimlessly wrote:
           | Taken to an extreme, this would exclude any game with any
           | element of problem solving, leaving just... cookie-clicker-
           | and twitch-reflex-FPS-style games.
        
           | awelxtr wrote:
           | With games there less negative repercussions if you fail.
           | Like none.
        
         | yismail wrote:
         | In a similar vein, I'd recommend Factorio and The Binding of
         | Isaac.
        
         | runeblaze wrote:
         | Since we are onto game recommendations I recommend Pokemon
         | without any irony. The wiki is vast. Honestly I don't know how
         | people are supposed to learn about all the deeper game
         | mechanics without a wiki, and RNG manipulation can be quite
         | fun.
        
           | opan wrote:
           | I almost added on Pokemon to my comment! Agreed. Though I
           | will say it's depressing to see the party you spent the whole
           | game with is genetically inferior (low IVs) and you have to
           | breed a whole new set to play competitively (or cheat, or use
           | Pokemon Showdown instead of a real game), and that the
           | breeding process has a lot of luck involved and takes ages. I
           | think they improved this in more recent games with ways to
           | raise your IVs, but it made me burn out on the series and
           | stop playing at least once. I haven't played the Switch ones
           | yet. When I was last playing through a Pokemon game, I think
           | it was Sun, I planned out my final party and movesets for
           | them in advance so I knew what TMs I had to find and which
           | 'mons to catch on which routes.
        
       | rootforce wrote:
       | I've been playing Minecraft off and on since beta, and I've been
       | able to introduce each of my kids as they've gotten old enough to
       | play.
       | 
       | It is pretty amazing, they all started in creative running around
       | punching random things and now each one has their own way they
       | like to play. One loves to build, another mini games, survival,
       | parkour, mods etc. we are currently watching MCC live and it's
       | like the Super Bowl. They all have their favorite streamers too.
       | 
       | Few games turn into multi generational cultural movements like
       | this.
        
         | pizzafeelsright wrote:
         | Never played. No idea. We're big lego fans. Where should I
         | start? Anything to avoid?
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | If you like lego then you would probably want to start off in
           | a basic survival world on peaceful or easy mode. That will
           | give you a feel for the core mood of the game, build a house,
           | tame a wolf, etc.
           | 
           | If you really want to build elaborate structures then try
           | creative mode.
           | 
           | Some multiplayer servers have good support for creative, but
           | I'd recommend avoiding the pvp minigames which are the
           | standard fare on servers.
        
           | rootforce wrote:
           | Start at the beginning, survival. Try not looking anything up
           | till you get stuck or bored.
           | 
           | Avoid mods at first.
           | 
           | Family friendly streamers are:
           | 
           | - [Jax and
           | Wild](https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCiJmKXWW7dOAVOrnHFviqhw)
           | 
           | - [Grian](https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU2851hDb3SEes
           | CjVCmseu6...)
           | 
           | - [Mumbo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMK_u3Hsd4U)
           | 
           | -[Stinarose](https://m.youtube.com/@StinaRose)
        
           | hluska wrote:
           | A child taught me the game, my child picked it up when she
           | was old enough and at this point I've played a lot of
           | Minecraft.
           | 
           | I'm a big fan of starting in creative mode with the
           | difficulty set at peaceful. Mobs won't attack you and you
           | don't have to deal with hunger. It's a good way to figure out
           | crafting, mining and finding resources without having to deal
           | with the combat and hunger systems. While you're in peaceful
           | mode, learn how to grow crops (I like wheat and melons) and
           | raise livestock (I like sheep and cows).
           | 
           | My kid and I play a lot of survival together. I'm great at
           | mining and find it very relaxing so I'll fill chests with
           | materials and flatten out spaces so she has near endless
           | materials and a lot of space to build whatever she is
           | interested in.
           | 
           | As you keep going, you'll figure out your style. There are no
           | rules and you can play however you like.
           | 
           | There are several streamers I would avoid but I'll let you
           | figure that out according to your family's standards. We
           | restrict multiplayer to friends my kid knows in person and
           | whose parents I know. We'll change that as the years go by
           | but for now it works.
           | 
           | But have fun, enjoy and prepare yourself for some really
           | interesting experiences.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | You could be tempted to start in Creative mode. Don't do it
           | if you can.
           | 
           | I say this as someone who loves playing in Creative mode :
           | it's not the same game at all. Survival mode is pretty easy
           | and it's not the same mood. There's a strange feeling in this
           | game when you just start to build a wooden shelter with not
           | even a door to survive the first night and somehow, after
           | some hours, your shelter is now a cosy house with some
           | underground cave that gives you an access to your own mine.
           | 
           | That's really a cosy feeling that you can't feel in creative
           | mode.
           | 
           | Survival is pretty easy : there are monsters at night but
           | surviving is nothing more than hiding in a dirt house.
           | 
           | And then after hundreds of hours, your start to be bored and
           | it's time to go Creative and to build gigantic castles.
           | 
           | Also you said "we" : if you can play the game in multiplayer,
           | it just doubles the fun.
        
         | ACow_Adonis wrote:
         | I just introduced my kid to Minecraft and it's fascinating how
         | quickly they take to it, but to my (internal silent) horror,
         | they've added so much that changes the survival experience from
         | the early days that it's not really the same any more.
         | 
         | Now there's villages which provide pre-made shelter, you can
         | just trade and build up villager slaves to make all the
         | resources for you, you can get a bed (which you find in all
         | villages) which let's you skip the night phase completely, and
         | they've even added in wings so people are flying everywhere.
         | 
         | Ironically they've taken the mining out of Minecraft (both the
         | mines because you get resources elsewhere and the minecarts
         | because every other mode of transport is better) and the
         | survival out of survival mode.
         | 
         | Of course, I got bored and tried my hand at building a new and
         | better survival mode and recapture that magic mixed with my own
         | curiosities of making a natural world simulation:
         | 
         | https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/au-naturel
         | 
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kMuTS7tevt4&pp=ygUKYWNvd2Fkb25...
         | 
         | So maybe I'm just playing the game in 2024 after all :)
         | 
         | And my kid loves creative.
        
           | the-smug-one wrote:
           | > No lava buckets
           | 
           | But that was available since InDev :'(. Cheers though, I
           | appreciate the points you make and I agree with them. The mod
           | adds too much realism for my taste, but most of the removals
           | are very nice.
        
           | skerit wrote:
           | Villagers have been in the game since Beta 1.9, the last beta
           | release before 1.0.0 in 2011...
           | 
           | So maybe not the best example.
           | 
           | Elytras have been around for a long time too, but they really
           | are OP
        
           | herpdyderp wrote:
           | I can only play on hardcore mode now, doing that puts the
           | survival back in. Unfortunately I have no friends willing to
           | join me in that :')
        
           | medstrom wrote:
           | > Removed supernatural or fantastical minecraft mobs: no
           | zombies, skeletons, creepers, endermen, etc.
           | 
           | No zombies? That is mind-blowing. I love the vision you
           | outline at 13:40-15:40, will play when I get a beefy enough
           | computer for Minecraft mods ;-)
        
           | Livanskoy wrote:
           | I can recommend checking out Vintage Story if you want the
           | refined Minecraft survival experience. Just finished playing
           | it with my wife a few weeks ago -- great fun.
        
         | ineptech wrote:
         | It's hard not to mourn what was lost though. Minecraft mods
         | were how a lot of teenagers got acquainted with scripting, and
         | it's a lot harder to get started with your own server since MS
         | bought it and forced it to authenticate through Azure. In my
         | kids' friendgroup at least, the "modding games as an entry
         | point to programming" concept has been handed off from
         | Minecraft to Roblox.
         | 
         | It's nice that they've added a bunch of functionality, but the
         | pessimistic view is that MS spent $1.6B to force the world's
         | schoolchildren to make office.com logins.
        
           | herewulf wrote:
           | Minetest, which has been around nearly as long and is a FOSS
           | game with more or less feature parity, covers all these
           | bases. Super easy to script in Lua. Simple to set up servers.
           | 
           | I've gotten my kids into Minetest after they kept hearing
           | about Minecraft and asking to play, and they absolutely love
           | it. Runs great on lower end hardware too.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | This is the kind of pessimistic take that gets a lot of
           | traction on HN, but man does it not match my experience.
           | 
           | > Minecraft mods were how a lot of teenagers got acquainted
           | with scripting, and it's a lot harder to get started with
           | your own server since MS bought it and forced it to
           | authenticate through Azure.
           | 
           | First off, the pivot from mods to running a server is sort of
           | related, I guess? But it's not at all clear how your
           | complaints about servers have any bearing on the modding,
           | which is still very much there. The Minecraft Forge docs are
           | better than ever [0], there are 3000+ mods on Curseforge
           | already compatible with 1.21 and 5000+ compatible with 1.20.
           | That a lot of kids have moved to other games has more to do
           | with the ephemeral nature of childhood entertainment than it
           | does with Microsoft stifling modding in any way.
           | 
           | Second, I'm not at all sure what you mean about servers being
           | harder to set up. Here are the instructions for setting up a
           | Minecraft server [1]. The instructions actually seem
           | substantially shorter than I remember them being from back in
           | the day, most of the bullet points are just explanations for
           | various settings you could configure.
           | 
           | > It's nice that they've added a bunch of functionality, but
           | the pessimistic view is that MS spent $1.6B to force the
           | world's schoolchildren to make office.com logins.
           | 
           | Microsoft bought Minecraft in 2014, 3 years after it was
           | officially released and 10 years before now. What you're
           | offering is a very pessimistic view given that history,
           | especially so given that it seems to be entirely based on a
           | single account migration from bespoke Minecraft accounts to
           | Microsoft accounts. You can be cynical about that all you
           | want, but speaking is a developer in a company that currently
           | has 3 account systems I'm going to venture that that move was
           | exactly what they claimed it was: an effort to simplify
           | things and increase security.
           | 
           | [0] https://docs.minecraftforge.net/en/latest/gettingstarted/
           | 
           | [1] https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-
           | us/articles/360058525452-Ho...
        
           | 256_ wrote:
           | I can't even imagine what it's like now, but Roblox is how I
           | first learned programming when I was 11. This was well over a
           | decade ago.
           | 
           | Roblox (talking in past tense; not sure how much of this is
           | still true) allowed you to create "Places", which were
           | basically 3D interactive universes that consisted of a few
           | primitive parts (rect. prisms, cylinders, etc.) arranged and
           | connected to each other, as larger solid objects, or with
           | hinges. It was, in other words, a multi-player physics
           | sanbox. Also, the use of the word "place" instead of "game"
           | is interesting to note; as a child, it felt like they could
           | really be anything, with no particular expectations.
           | 
           | I don't remember when Lua scripting was added - I think it
           | was around 2008-2009 or somethng - but it allowed you to
           | perform simple event-based programming, registering
           | clicks/deaths/collisions/etc and manipulating the game world.
           | As a child I saw this as a form of magic. What would
           | otherwise be a physics sandbox with inanimate objects
           | interacting in a strictly mechanistic fashion became one in
           | which anything could happen. You know, magic. Maybe that
           | sounds stupid, but that was my thinking.
           | 
           | So I became a programmer because I wanted to be a wizard. I
           | am still pursuing this goal. Also, RIP Erik Cassel. His
           | tutorials were one of my first - if not my first -
           | introduction to programming ever. He died too soon.
        
           | andrewxdiamond wrote:
           | Lost? Nothing has been deprecated, Java edition is still
           | supported and kept in feature parity with Bedrock aka MS
           | Edition. Yes, Bedrock is not mod friendly like Java, but the
           | modding community hasn't stopped.
           | 
           | And yes they moved the license server from a Mojang server to
           | the MS login system, but what is the real difference here?
           | You still have to login, you just don't like MS for unrelated
           | reasons.
           | 
           | https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/download/server
           | 
           | https://hub.docker.com/search?q=minecraft
           | 
           | https://old.reddit.com/r/admincraft/
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | One of the other innovations of Minecraft is that they didn't
       | worry too much about rendering chunks in a timely manner. When
       | you're on multiplayer and moving fast its not uncommon for the
       | landscape to get rendered right infront of your eyes. Some games
       | go to great lengths to avoid that (e.g. slow the player down or
       | have distance fog so that they never notice areas being loaded).
       | But if the game is fun, no-one cares about hiding the loading.
        
       | comprev wrote:
       | I've never played Minecraft as such but have great memories of
       | spending time with my nephews while they built things with this
       | digital Lego.
       | 
       | We also built loads of cool things with [my old] Lego too :-)
        
       | momojo wrote:
       | > I'm a writer, and don't get me wrong: To publish a plain ol'
       | book that people actually want to read is still a solid
       | achievement. But I think Markus Persson and his studio have
       | staked out a new kind of achievement, a deeper kind: To make the
       | system that calls forth the book, which is not just a story but a
       | real magick manual that grants its reader (who consumes it
       | avidly, endlessly, all day, at school, at night, under the
       | covers, studying, studying) new and exciting powers in a vivid,
       | malleable world.
       | 
       | This so vividly captures my childhood experience with Minecraft
       | Beta.
       | 
       | Something I think the article could have clarified; it's not the
       | quantity of content, but the lack of it, that (IMO) made it such
       | a joy to play. It offered just enough, and not a speck more.
       | 
       | They've added so much more content since then (not a bad thing),
       | but I think kids are naturally curious, volume-filling creatures.
       | I didn't need a tutorial to tell me to start exploring caves. But
       | it gave me torches and dark, mysterious entrances just asking to
       | be dived into.
       | 
       | My theory, if anyone wants to make something akin to minecraft in
       | the future, is to do just enough, and not too much. Make a game
       | that's delightful as a toy to pick and play around with; and
       | resist the overwhelming urge to add more.
        
         | xmprt wrote:
         | It has a lot of parallels with Lego and not just the fact that
         | they're both a bunch of boxes that you can attach together. I
         | think the fundamental mechanics of Minecraft lends itself to a
         | type of creativity that other games find it hard to recreate.
         | By being so little, it manages to be so much more than the sum
         | of its parts. Minecraft didn't have a proper ending for the
         | first few years of its life.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | The secret of Minecraft is that it's the Lego game without Lego
       | corporate involvement.
       | 
       | Or at least it was before MS bought it.
       | 
       | These days you have to find servers that disable the chat
       | censorship if you're an adult that plays with adults.
       | 
       | And no, it's not kids only, as 90% of the other comments probably
       | say.
        
       | infinitezest wrote:
       | For anyone wanting to re-experience the beta-like nature of the
       | original Minecraft, I suggest minetest. There are quite a few
       | game modes, but the one that I tend to like the most is called
       | MineClonia, since it fairly closely follows the general shape of
       | Minecraft gameplay (as one might expect). The devs are very
       | responsive and it's very easy to hack on and mod (as it uses
       | Lua).
        
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