[HN Gopher] What is Toybox?
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What is Toybox?
Author : thunderbong
Score : 107 points
Date : 2024-07-25 02:53 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (landley.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (landley.net)
| upon_drumhead wrote:
| This sounds really cool, however, reading the status page (
| http://landley.net/toybox/status.html#done )is near impossible. I
| have no clue what the difference between `#command#` or
| `@command@` is. Are they both usable? some are links to man
| pages, some are not, but are listed in the done section.
| rany_ wrote:
| and the legend that is provided isn't _that_ helpful:
|
| > Legend: [posix] <lsb> (development) {toolbox} =klibc= #sash#
| @sbase@ *beastiebox* $tizen$ -fhs- .yocto. %shell% +request+
| ronsor wrote:
| This is just where the command originated from.
| erik_seaberg wrote:
| I think each of these symbols represents where a command was
| defined (e.g., commands in square brackets came from
| POSIX.1).
|
| https://landley.net/toybox/roadmap.html
| tempcommenttt wrote:
| This doesn't explain what toybox is. Maybe I should ask ChatGPT
| gorbypark wrote:
| Toybox combines many common Linux command line utilities
| together into a single BSD-licensed executable. It's simple,
| small, fast, and reasonably standards-compliant (POSIX-2008 and
| LSB 4.1).
| IntelMiner wrote:
| BusyBox but not GPL licensed effectively
| fitsumbelay wrote:
| from a previous post -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28627433
| erikbye wrote:
| The explanation is in the first sentence. How much clearer
| could he be?
| written-beyond wrote:
| Please watch this Landley talk for the best explanation. He's a
| peculiar one but his work is fascinating
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9TatW9ino
| greatcircle wrote:
| Landley said in one of his talks (I think it was the linked
| one) that his goal with Toybox was to enable Android devices to
| function as a Linux-like development environment.
|
| Toybox provides the shell utilities. You can plug in a keyboard
| and mouse via the USB charging port. You can screencast to a TV
| via a Chromecast. Somehow you'd need to get a compilation
| toolchain on there.
|
| It's an interesting idea IMO. For many people an Android device
| is their only computer... though I'm not aware of anyone doing
| this for real in the wild?
| written-beyond wrote:
| To be a little pedantic, that's not exactly what he meant. I
| only say this because his true vision is a lot more beautiful
| than that.
|
| He wants to reduce the barrier to entry for tech and empower
| anyone with the drive to build not be limited by their
| resources. This is particularly why he focuses on Android
| smartphones because they're the most popular in the
| developing world. Also since smartphones are full fledged
| computers with touchscreens as their primary input method
| it's the perfect tool for this.
|
| Furthermore, his baseline for this is any such device should
| have the tools necessary to build a working version of Linux
| from start to finish on itself. Which is why he's built toy
| box; it should, by the end of it, have all the tools
| necessary to building a working build of Linux with a single
| binary.
| 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
| IMHO, toybox does have some potentially advantageous differences
| from busybox, e.g.,
|
| busybox seq does not have -f unlike toybox seq
|
| busybox sed has fewer features than toybox sed, e.g., -E
|
| busybox mv does not have -v but toybox mv has it
|
| toybox base64 has an -i option, busybox does not
|
| toybox hexedit has some useful features not found in busybox
| hexedit
|
| toybox nc has some useful features not found in busybox nc, e.g.,
| -U and -f
|
| Overall, busybox has more available utilities than toybox.
| saagarjha wrote:
| So I was reading the background on Toybox and it's
| definitely...interesting? Seems like the author used to work on
| BusyBox, had a falling out, then in a fit of pique wrote a
| permissively licensed version?
| Nursie wrote:
| IIRC busybox became part of some GPL enforcement lawsuit(s)
| because it was being packaged in a lot of embedded situations
| without the necessary source-publishing.
|
| So the author split off to work on toybox instead, a new
| implementation under permissive licensing.
|
| I guess it just goes to show you should pick licenses that
| actually reflect what you want to happen to your code.
| synergy20 wrote:
| true. I worked with landley when he started toybox, mainly
| because of BusyBox license.android uses it now.
| bityard wrote:
| Er, no, that's not quite right.
|
| Busybox was written by Bruce Perens. The goal was to fit a
| whole Linux system onto a floppy disk for rescue disks and
| installers. Busybox licensed under GPL was not an accident.
| The kernel was GPL of course, but the rest of the userland
| was either GNU or largely GNU-inspired. Bruce Perens was
| heavily involved in early Debian development and even led the
| project for a while. "Copyleft" is at the core of how Debian
| operates.
|
| Busybox being GPL licensed was in no way an accident or
| frivolous decision. It is still licensed under GPLv2 to this
| day.
|
| I don't know when Rob Landley became involved in Busybox, and
| I don't know what drama resulted in the reimplementation of
| Toybox but I do remember he started it with hope that it
| would eventually ship on Android smartphones. I guess it
| worked out okay for him, because now he gets paid by Google
| to work on Toybox.
| 1GZ0 wrote:
| Deeply appreciate people rewriting and polishing up stuff lower
| down in the stack. Its work like that that makes sure the house
| of cards our digital infrastructure has become doesn't just
| collapse.
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| > Busybox predates Android, but has never shipped with Android
| due to the license.
|
| Wouldn't want any GPL'd code in android... Oh wait
| mijoharas wrote:
| I think I'm missing context on what you're referring to. Does
| AOSP include a lot of GPL'd software or something? Do they not
| comply with the GPL license? (are you talking about the linux
| kernel or something?)
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| AFAIK the _only_ GPL code in AOSP is the kernel... so, y
| 'know, just one of the most important parts of the system.
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