[HN Gopher] What is Toybox?
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       What is Toybox?
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2024-07-25 02:53 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (landley.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (landley.net)
        
       | upon_drumhead wrote:
       | This sounds really cool, however, reading the status page (
       | http://landley.net/toybox/status.html#done )is near impossible. I
       | have no clue what the difference between `#command#` or
       | `@command@` is. Are they both usable? some are links to man
       | pages, some are not, but are listed in the done section.
        
         | rany_ wrote:
         | and the legend that is provided isn't _that_ helpful:
         | 
         | > Legend: [posix] <lsb> (development) {toolbox} =klibc= #sash#
         | @sbase@ *beastiebox* $tizen$ -fhs- .yocto. %shell% +request+
        
           | ronsor wrote:
           | This is just where the command originated from.
        
           | erik_seaberg wrote:
           | I think each of these symbols represents where a command was
           | defined (e.g., commands in square brackets came from
           | POSIX.1).
           | 
           | https://landley.net/toybox/roadmap.html
        
       | tempcommenttt wrote:
       | This doesn't explain what toybox is. Maybe I should ask ChatGPT
        
         | gorbypark wrote:
         | Toybox combines many common Linux command line utilities
         | together into a single BSD-licensed executable. It's simple,
         | small, fast, and reasonably standards-compliant (POSIX-2008 and
         | LSB 4.1).
        
         | IntelMiner wrote:
         | BusyBox but not GPL licensed effectively
        
         | fitsumbelay wrote:
         | from a previous post -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28627433
        
         | erikbye wrote:
         | The explanation is in the first sentence. How much clearer
         | could he be?
        
       | written-beyond wrote:
       | Please watch this Landley talk for the best explanation. He's a
       | peculiar one but his work is fascinating
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9TatW9ino
        
         | greatcircle wrote:
         | Landley said in one of his talks (I think it was the linked
         | one) that his goal with Toybox was to enable Android devices to
         | function as a Linux-like development environment.
         | 
         | Toybox provides the shell utilities. You can plug in a keyboard
         | and mouse via the USB charging port. You can screencast to a TV
         | via a Chromecast. Somehow you'd need to get a compilation
         | toolchain on there.
         | 
         | It's an interesting idea IMO. For many people an Android device
         | is their only computer... though I'm not aware of anyone doing
         | this for real in the wild?
        
           | written-beyond wrote:
           | To be a little pedantic, that's not exactly what he meant. I
           | only say this because his true vision is a lot more beautiful
           | than that.
           | 
           | He wants to reduce the barrier to entry for tech and empower
           | anyone with the drive to build not be limited by their
           | resources. This is particularly why he focuses on Android
           | smartphones because they're the most popular in the
           | developing world. Also since smartphones are full fledged
           | computers with touchscreens as their primary input method
           | it's the perfect tool for this.
           | 
           | Furthermore, his baseline for this is any such device should
           | have the tools necessary to build a working version of Linux
           | from start to finish on itself. Which is why he's built toy
           | box; it should, by the end of it, have all the tools
           | necessary to building a working build of Linux with a single
           | binary.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | IMHO, toybox does have some potentially advantageous differences
       | from busybox, e.g.,
       | 
       | busybox seq does not have -f unlike toybox seq
       | 
       | busybox sed has fewer features than toybox sed, e.g., -E
       | 
       | busybox mv does not have -v but toybox mv has it
       | 
       | toybox base64 has an -i option, busybox does not
       | 
       | toybox hexedit has some useful features not found in busybox
       | hexedit
       | 
       | toybox nc has some useful features not found in busybox nc, e.g.,
       | -U and -f
       | 
       | Overall, busybox has more available utilities than toybox.
        
       | saagarjha wrote:
       | So I was reading the background on Toybox and it's
       | definitely...interesting? Seems like the author used to work on
       | BusyBox, had a falling out, then in a fit of pique wrote a
       | permissively licensed version?
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | IIRC busybox became part of some GPL enforcement lawsuit(s)
         | because it was being packaged in a lot of embedded situations
         | without the necessary source-publishing.
         | 
         | So the author split off to work on toybox instead, a new
         | implementation under permissive licensing.
         | 
         | I guess it just goes to show you should pick licenses that
         | actually reflect what you want to happen to your code.
        
           | synergy20 wrote:
           | true. I worked with landley when he started toybox, mainly
           | because of BusyBox license.android uses it now.
        
           | bityard wrote:
           | Er, no, that's not quite right.
           | 
           | Busybox was written by Bruce Perens. The goal was to fit a
           | whole Linux system onto a floppy disk for rescue disks and
           | installers. Busybox licensed under GPL was not an accident.
           | The kernel was GPL of course, but the rest of the userland
           | was either GNU or largely GNU-inspired. Bruce Perens was
           | heavily involved in early Debian development and even led the
           | project for a while. "Copyleft" is at the core of how Debian
           | operates.
           | 
           | Busybox being GPL licensed was in no way an accident or
           | frivolous decision. It is still licensed under GPLv2 to this
           | day.
           | 
           | I don't know when Rob Landley became involved in Busybox, and
           | I don't know what drama resulted in the reimplementation of
           | Toybox but I do remember he started it with hope that it
           | would eventually ship on Android smartphones. I guess it
           | worked out okay for him, because now he gets paid by Google
           | to work on Toybox.
        
       | 1GZ0 wrote:
       | Deeply appreciate people rewriting and polishing up stuff lower
       | down in the stack. Its work like that that makes sure the house
       | of cards our digital infrastructure has become doesn't just
       | collapse.
        
       | singpolyma3 wrote:
       | > Busybox predates Android, but has never shipped with Android
       | due to the license.
       | 
       | Wouldn't want any GPL'd code in android... Oh wait
        
         | mijoharas wrote:
         | I think I'm missing context on what you're referring to. Does
         | AOSP include a lot of GPL'd software or something? Do they not
         | comply with the GPL license? (are you talking about the linux
         | kernel or something?)
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | AFAIK the _only_ GPL code in AOSP is the kernel... so, y
           | 'know, just one of the most important parts of the system.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-25 23:13 UTC)