[HN Gopher] The Unix Pipe Card Game
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       The Unix Pipe Card Game
        
       Author : Shugyousha
       Score  : 249 points
       Date   : 2024-07-23 15:35 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (punkx.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (punkx.org)
        
       | Neywiny wrote:
       | inb4 uuoc award givers. Having the cat at the front simplifies
       | adding to the front of the pipeline.
        
       | throwaway71271 wrote:
       | I make those decks (https://punkx.org/) to help me teach my
       | daughter, and so far they seem very effective, especially the
       | unix pipes one and the 4917 machine code https://punkx.org/4917/
       | and the pointers deck https://punkx.org/c-pointer-game/ , from
       | the python deck I use only 10 cards or so
       | 
       | btw, you might also like https://punkx.org/overflow/ which is a
       | buffer overflow riscv assembly board game, or depending on your
       | kid's level you can also play snakes and ladders with gotos
       | https://punkx.org/overflow/build/snakes-and-ladders.pdf
       | 
       | Also if you have kids, I would recommend you print
       | https://punkx.org/panic/ which has amazing pranks that fit in one
       | poker card (e.g. randomly hitting backspace or space every 30
       | seconds, or pressing W randomly if minecraft is open)
       | 
       | I am donating a lot of the decks to teachers and schools, so if
       | you are interested send me an email.
       | 
       | PS: I am in London for 1 more week, so if you order decks now the
       | shipping will be delayed, but I will make sure I add 1-2 extra
       | decks in the package because of it.
       | 
       | PPS: the unix pipes expansion deck is all about process
       | substitution, but I don't think its useful for kids, though I
       | think it contains nice puzzles
        
         | jjice wrote:
         | So cool! I'm ordering a few of these after rework tonight.
         | 
         | Out of curiosity, how do you handle printing? DIY? POD? Order
         | in bulk and ship yourself? I'm always so interested in how
         | people handle physical product sales at a small scale.
        
           | throwaway71271 wrote:
           | I print with local print shop http://www.hrspeelkaarten.nl/
           | and https://www.printenbind.nl/ and I print a lot so the
           | price gets to 3-4$ (like 800 decks or so) and then I ship
           | myself.
           | 
           | TBH physical products are amazing, I want to make more. Its
           | such an amazing feeling once the product is "done", you can
           | just start working on the next one, in contrast with software
           | which is always in your head..
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | There was also a Show HN thread a couple of years ago, for
         | people who are into the whole reading old comments thing:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33222687
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
           | 
           |  _Show HN: The Unix Pipe Card Game - teach kids basic Unix
           | commands_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33222687 -
           | Oct 2022 (59 comments)
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | KUDOS for the creativity of coming up with something like this!
        
         | vesinisa wrote:
         | This is really cool!
         | 
         | One thing I noticed: in the game there are tasks like print the
         | second line and print the seventh line. But both of those lines
         | are empty. So technically e.g. a non-matching grep is a correct
         | solution. :)
        
           | throwaway71271 wrote:
           | yep :)
        
         | koolba wrote:
         | What age and how much terminal familiarity did you start
         | playing?
        
         | Daegalus wrote:
         | I ordered 1 of all your available decks a few months ago, my
         | daughters are too young for them still, but I think they are
         | great, and I can't wait to bust these out in 8+ years
        
       | elchief wrote:
       | $19 shipping (Canada) is a little outrageous
       | 
       | anybody in Greater Vancouver wanna do a bulk order w me?
        
         | throwaway71271 wrote:
         | Sorry :( I use PostNL, and its actually even more expensive, on
         | most non EU shipping I lose
         | 
         | but each deck has pdfs you can just print them with your local
         | printing shop, if you don't print the box it should be cheaper
         | 
         | you can also just print them on a4 paper and cut it with
         | scissors, its not the end of the world, it is even helpful to
         | explain to someone with pen and paper as well.
         | 
         | in this case: https://punkx.org/unix-pipe-game/unix-pipe-
         | box.pdf this is the box and https://punkx.org/unix-pipe-
         | game/unix-pipe-cards.pdf are the cards
        
         | przemub wrote:
         | Come on, you can print it yourself if you want and it's clear
         | that at this price and shipping from Europe he earns close to
         | zero on these.
        
         | floodle wrote:
         | It's a wild idea to take a completely digital asset, print it
         | in Europe on to paper, and then put it on a ship and slowly
         | transport it to Canada.
        
         | ktallett wrote:
         | 12 Euros is a fairly standard price for tracked postage across
         | continents.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | Not the same, but I mailed a sweatshirt to a relative in
           | Sweden from the US and it was like $36 and if I wanted it
           | tracked the whole way it would have been something like $55.
           | Granted this was USPS and maybe shopping it around would have
           | been cheaper, but I had no idea that international shipping
           | was so expensive considering you can buy stuff from china and
           | shipping is basically free.
        
       | g4zj wrote:
       | Are kids these days actually able to grasp things like this? I
       | don't have kids and am never around them, so please take this
       | question as genuine and in good faith.
        
         | throwaway71271 wrote:
         | I think it depends a lot on the kid and the parent, I am
         | teaching my daughter since she was 10, and I try to spend time
         | every day doing something, you can see our progress here:
         | https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/blob/master/...
         | 
         | It is difficult because I have to compete with snapchat and
         | google/meta for her attention, and school is quite exhausting.
         | Snapchat has this super annoying 'streaks' and the more friends
         | you have the more streaks you have to keep alive, so you have
         | to send like 400 messages per day.. its non stop. I teach her
         | that there are 100_000 developers and psychologists and product
         | owners and etc, that they go to work every single day thinking
         | how to extract the most value out of her attention, and she has
         | to constantly be aware of what is the "algorithm" making her
         | do.
         | 
         | Unix Pipes she got quite quickly, but doesn't use often, but
         | the idea of one program reading another program's output she
         | got. Also grasping the command line was not that difficult. But
         | I used quite some tricks to help. For example her windows PC I
         | change the shell from explorer to cmd.exe, so it boots in cmd,
         | so she has to navigate and also fix it. I also make scavenger
         | hunts on her filesystem so she has to look for a file using dir
         | and cd and etc, also https://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/ I
         | bribed her with robux for passing each level of the bandit game
         | 
         | I want to teach her how computers work and how to make them do
         | what she wants. From what is a register, to an instruction, to
         | a program to a process. Kihon no Kihon as they say. But in the
         | process I also teach her how to break things down and how to
         | think and most importantly how to learn. I teach her about the
         | heart of things, so there is no mystery between the keyboard
         | press and the letter appearing on the screen, or how chatgpt
         | predicts the next word (I am working on a RNN board game with 3
         | neurons and you have to teach it to count
         | https://punkx.org/move-37/rnn.pdf [work in progress])
         | 
         | So in the end I am not sure if it matters what you teach your
         | children :)
        
         | CBarkleyU wrote:
         | Not sure about kids, but I've seen university students that
         | literally did not know how to use a non iOS computing device.
         | Colleagues had to start explaining what a file is, a folder,
         | etc etc, in their courses.
         | 
         | Honestly I don't find that too bad. My guess is that computers
         | will go the same way cars did: Most people will only know the
         | very basics that are needed to operate the thing. Any deeper
         | knowledge will be left to enthusiasts and professionals. Thus
         | computers, while getting more complicated internally, will have
         | fewer and fewer modi of usages.
        
           | throwaway71271 wrote:
           | > what a file is
           | 
           | What is a file, what is a program, how programs run and how
           | programs communicate, is not understood by most people
           | (including most CS students).
           | 
           | > Honestly I don't find that too bad.
           | 
           | I understand what you mean, it is the same with most
           | technology, users just use it, as your example of cars, or
           | even furniture, or forks and spoons, or language, I am not
           | even sure it is related to complexity.
           | 
           | But I disagree on what it means to use a computer, because
           | unlike other machines, it does what you make of it (now even
           | more, with llama 3.1 out), I think to use a computer means to
           | program it. Somehow in the last 30-40 years, user interfaces
           | gave up on their users. You dont own your programs, your
           | files or in many cases even your computer, it doesnt start
           | the programs you want(iphone for example), and you cant debug
           | other programs (e.g. in case of macos you cant gdb -p into
           | signed programs unless you disable the system's integrity
           | protection).
           | 
           | Somehow we managed to squeeze all the fun out of it. As John
           | Carmack says: the distance between what it is, and what it
           | could be, is the opportunity, and I am sure people can have
           | way more fun programming :)
           | 
           | This commodore 64 user guide:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WnHuGjZ38 is my
           | inspiration.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | The first class of my CS degree was "How to use Microsoft
             | Word" and some of the other students had a really, really
             | hard time figuring this out. Including the guy next to me
             | who kept telling me he had a job lined up already to write
             | software for nuclear reactors in Pascal.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | This aligns with reality.
               | 
               | To be fair to the other guy, early versions of MS Word
               | sucked when it came to LaTeX representations of integrals
               | and nuclear decay chain notations.
               | 
               | Perhaps more recent versions do better.
        
               | jtsuken wrote:
               | There was a post on HN some time ago about a candidate
               | for a senior IT role, who wrote code in MS Word.
               | 
               | I can't find it right now. Maybe I should try Bing search
        
               | pmontra wrote:
               | Great fun with the autocorrected Unicode double quotes.
               | 
               | A customer of mine got bitten on a preproduction server
               | because of a copy and paste from some blog, where ASCII "
               | were converted to Unicode (slanted) "
        
               | nilamo wrote:
               | Why would using a fancy editor be in any way relevant to
               | writing code? That CS class should be dropped from the
               | curriculum, imo, until such time as bolding a register
               | has some sort of meaning, or perhaps viewing an sql table
               | via "print preview".
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | A good developer I've been working with years ago told me "I
           | really don't know how networking works [and SQL] but... I
           | studied Graphic Design, not CS. While I was studying that I
           | realized that I liked programming more than design so I
           | started doing it and never got a formal education about
           | computer stuff." He was really good at Node and he ended up
           | being the lead developer of the company he was working for. I
           | know good developers coming from all sort of backgrounds,
           | from Philosophy to Agrarian science (if that's the right
           | English term for that.)
        
       | oliwarner wrote:
       | Great until you play a minimal game with somebody who grew up on
       | awk, perl, etc
        
         | grayfaced wrote:
         | Yea that's the fault of the scoring method (Count pipes).
         | Character count would be better... either that or play within
         | the spirit of the game and learn the tools for their intended
         | purpose. I use a lot of awk/sed for quick one-time processing
         | and I use a similar mental model for how I do most of my
         | processing. Build a input stream, use sed to structure the data
         | into records, use awk to process records, massage the output
         | (e.g. sort/uniq). In many cases I could use sed or awk to
         | replace eachother but that makes it take longer to visualize
         | and also harder to re-use.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | > In many cases I could use sed or awk to replace each other
           | 
           | I always felt that way too. I don't do a ton of command line
           | processing of stuff now, but got pretty proficient with them
           | back in day specifically for a unix class in college. A lot
           | of the seemingly simple command line tools have overlapping
           | feature sets or can be coerced into doing extra stuff.
        
       | baudaux wrote:
       | I definitely need to fix pipes in https://exaequos.com in order
       | to play !!
        
       | michaelmior wrote:
       | I'm curious how the "largest pipe chain" format works when the
       | rules state that the first player to complete the task wins the
       | round.
        
         | throwaway71271 wrote:
         | we played it until we ran out of cards
        
       | contravariant wrote:
       | You're going to run out of coins I think.
        
       | EmilyHughes wrote:
       | yeah kids are gonna love this
        
       | ShayNehmad wrote:
       | Love the fact that I can print these. That's really great.
       | Thanks! I'm debating if to print it in the office printer right
       | now...
        
       | quiteunfunny wrote:
       | can you pull a dirty pipe move?
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-24 23:10 UTC)