[HN Gopher] Engage, don't show
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Engage, don't show
Author : saikatsg
Score : 44 points
Date : 2024-07-23 18:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (lea.verou.me)
| from-nibly wrote:
| I try to do this as much as possible. Unfortunately some people
| are not actually interested in knowledge transfer. Those people
| are just interested in unblocking themselves for the ultimate
| short dopamine hit. For those people doing this is like nails on
| a chalkboard.
|
| "Just tell me what I need to do"
| PaulHoule wrote:
| You catch different people at different places in their
| journey.
| sublinear wrote:
| From the article:
|
| > explaining things in context as they become relevant is
| infinitely better for retention and comprehension than
| explaining them upfront
|
| At one point in my life "explaining things as they become
| relevant" was equivalent to not really giving a crap and
| letting them presumably mess it all up after I showed/told them
| the bare minimum.
|
| What I found was that they learned on their own quicker than I
| assumed, didn't really mess up as bad as I thought, and loved
| me for the simple explanation. That's when I decided this is
| the way.
|
| I don't know why I'm adding this in, but this strategy is also
| relevant to other topics such as relationships. Don't rush or
| get too excited. Don't ever offer more than what they're giving
| you. Expect people to bail when they got what they wanted.
| Embrace and reward them for sticking around. You become more
| than a means to an end when the fear of missing out is a
| factor. You also automatically filter out people who didn't
| respect you anyway.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| Indeed learning from experience, with just a few hints to
| fall back on, tends to stick better. I think it might be so
| because the feedback loops introduced are positive as well as
| negative. You can't learn how to hold your fork without
| learning in which ways your food tumbles off.
| soneca wrote:
| That is common in several occupations. It is worth asking
| yourself an important question when you are deciding to become
| something that you are not. _"Do you want to write or to be a
| writer?"_ , _"Do you want to develop software or be a software
| developer employee?"_
|
| Often the role/title is desired for its status and/or money. I
| think that's a fair enough motivation actually, except it
| should not _solely_ be that. You have to want to learn and
| practice. Or else, counterproductively, you will have less
| chance to get the role/title.
| sublinear wrote:
| Isn't this still just "show, don't tell"? Why are we trying to
| coin a new term and muddy waters?
|
| "Tell" implies some form of structured information such as music
| notation. "Show" implies action(s) such as actually playing the
| piano.
|
| Showing is usually engaging otherwise they wouldn't be there in
| the first place.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| > Showing is usually engaging otherwise they wouldn't be there
| in the first place.
|
| The problem is, e.g. if you as a teacher show music notation
| and show low, high, short, long notes on a blackboard, the
| student will forget what is shown if it does not fulfill a
| rather short term goal.
|
| Engaging would be playing the piano together while watching and
| listening. The feedback loop of gratification is much shorter
| and we animals are programmed to learn well from short
| positive/negative feedback loops.
| Sirizarry wrote:
| But that definition of engaging is already what showing means
| in "show, don't tell". There's no reason to give it a new
| term and thus again muddying the waters of understanding
| soneca wrote:
| I think inviting the person to play is much more engaging than
| just showing them you playing.
|
| Showing the music notation to the student = tell
|
| Playing the music to the student = show
|
| Letting the student play the music = engage
|
| Makes sense to me
| mecsred wrote:
| But the reason they are a student is because they can't play
| the music. Showing them the notations and demonstrating how
| to play it are steps towards them playing it themselves.
| soneca wrote:
| Not necessarily. Especially the notations are certainly not
| a necessary step towards the student playing.
|
| Playing for them, sure. But you can play once and invite
| them to play. Not keeping showing until you think they
| learned.
| hinkley wrote:
| High barrier to entry skills like playing a piano don't
| conduct themselves well to random unguided exploration. And
| in music there is often a warning that doing so may
| ultimately restrict your potential in the field.
|
| Internal martial arts has the same warning. Across pretty
| much all disciplines in the field, the message is that you
| can only learn these skills kinesthetically. Not talking, not
| seeing, but feeling instructor corrections with your own
| body.
| kynetic wrote:
| It's a semantics debate all around, but the article's main
| point is that "show" suggests a mere demonstration, whereas
| "engage" implies active participation by the learner in the
| process of learning.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| >> I mentioned to her teacher that kids that age struggle to
| learn theory for that long without practicing it. He agreed, and
| said that many kids are motivated to get through the theory
| because they've heard their teacher play nice music and want to
| get there too.
|
| Few people are open to advice. Usually results in
| defensive/justification response.
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