[HN Gopher] Chinese-born chemist cleared of last conviction unde...
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Chinese-born chemist cleared of last conviction under US's
espionage probe
Author : crescit_eundo
Score : 90 points
Date : 2024-07-23 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.chemistryworld.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.chemistryworld.com)
| crescit_eundo wrote:
| https://archive.ph/kBcaq
| hiddencost wrote:
| $1M in remaining debt, lost his professorship and 2 years of
| research... I think he deserves punitive damages.
| buran77 wrote:
| > I think he deserves punitive damages
|
| Yes... Come 2025 he may just have to pay them.
| dlivingston wrote:
| Reading through the GoFundMe updates is heartbreaking:
| https://www.gofundme.com/f/Legal-Defense-Fund-for-Franklin-T...
| lossolo wrote:
| Indeed, this quote hits hard: "The past five years have felt
| like navigating the valley of death. Franklin and I, like
| many of you in the Asian community, came to the USA to pursue
| our dream through intelligence and hard work. We wanted to
| contribute to all facets of this land, particularly in
| research, while expecting in return basic respect. Despite
| life not always aligning with our hopes, I am glad we have
| stood up against political and arbitrary manipulations
| targeting scholars of Asian origin. The success of our appeal
| marks a significant milestone, and we deeply appreciate the
| support from all of you. Your unwavering support has been
| invaluable throughout this ordeal, and Franklin and I are
| truly grateful for everything you have done. This hard-fought
| win would not have been possible without your steadfast
| commitment.
|
| However, it is a bittersweet win. The total cost of fighting
| these bogus charges for the past five years cost over $2.3
| million, and we still carry over $1.1 million in debt despite
| your generous support. Franklin has not earned a salary for
| over four years. Our family is deeply in debt, and I kindly
| request your assistance with this remaining legal defense
| debt.
|
| Once again, thank you for your exceptional dedication and
| support. May GOD bless you and your family abundantly."
| darthrupert wrote:
| The difference between our system and theirs: in here, people are
| usually let go if they are shown not to be guilty.
| paganel wrote:
| Not sure the Americans are in any position to preach when it
| comes to their incarceration and capital punishment policies.
| allemagne wrote:
| In comparison to the People's Republic of China?
| yardie wrote:
| In comparison to the country that shoots you in the face
| for being the wrong skin color?
| simmerup wrote:
| Atleast they don't let corrupt prison officers harvest their
| prisoners organs
| sauruk wrote:
| Is this even a standard worth comparing ourselves to?
| That's a bar so low that "at least we don't ..." doesn't
| even make sense
| braincat31415 wrote:
| Which makes it ok.
| janice1999 wrote:
| There's literally a prison organ theft scandal ongoing in
| Alabama at the moment.
|
| https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/18/us/organs-removed-
| decease...
| snapcaster wrote:
| Yeah they do sadly :(
| buran77 wrote:
| This wasn't an "honest mistake" conviction. Trying to turn a
| complete embarrassment of a legal process, driven by a racially
| biased witch hunt into a moral win is like saying that "in here
| we rape you with lube and a condom".
|
| What's even better than correcting mistakes and feeling warm
| and fuzzy inside because you're better than some of the worst
| is to not make them in the first place, at least when they're
| as avoidable as this one.
| aziaziazi wrote:
| Also, you better got some dollar to merit the lube. From his
| gofoundme last update:
|
| > America has a great legal system if only you can afford it
| fooker wrote:
| As opposed to 'disappeared', for suspected espionage?
| wheels wrote:
| It's pretty revolting that you would turn this into a narrative
| of American exceptionalism.
| perihelions wrote:
| That's not entirely true. You can be found factually innocent,
| and still be unable to escape prison--due to the utterly
| _Kafkaesque_ nature of the legal system.
|
| Here's a case I read about over a decade ago, and never forgot:
|
| https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-aug-21-la-me-in...
| ( _" Man behind bars 2 years after judge orders release"_
| (2012))
|
| - _" But two years after he was supposed to be released, Larsen
| remains behind bars while the California attorney general
| appeals the decision. The state's main argument: He did not
| file his legal paperwork seeking release on time."_
| garou wrote:
| the yellow spectre is haunting america
| mitchbob wrote:
| Background: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/21/have-
| chinese-s... (archived: https://archive.ph/5xUkU )
| segasaturn wrote:
| >In 2019, the United States Department of Justice indicted Tao
| for 'failing to disclose conflict of interest with a Chinese
| university' .. The evidence used by the Department of Justice was
| obtained after Tao was reported to the FBI for alleged espionage
| by a vengeful co-author, who presented manufactured evidence to
| the FBI. Based on this evidence, the FBI obtained a search
| warrant. Tao was subsequently indicted for an email regarding a
| contract to teach in China, but not for alleged espionage
|
| I don't even understand how any of this is illegal? You can be
| thrown in prison and have your reputation and career ruined by
| the government for sending an email to someone in China now?
| 99_00 wrote:
| He was taking money from the department of energy for research
| while collaborating with Chinese universities and did not
| disclose this and lied to investigators about it.
| hermannj314 wrote:
| Isn't that the charge he was cleared for?
| dralley wrote:
| He was cleared of espionage. He was not cleared for lying
| about the conflict of interest.
| Leary wrote:
| That conviction was overturned a week ago[1]
|
| [1] https://cen.acs.org/research-
| integrity/misconduct/Court-over...
| psychoslave wrote:
| LOL. Because those that make these laws pass and
| participate in the witch hunt turned into a justice show
| never lied about conflict of interest, what actual agenda
| they have in mind, and how much they really care abouto
| serving humanity best interests.
| no_exit wrote:
| FTA:
|
| > At issue in the new ruling, issued 11 July, is whether
| Tao's lack of disclosure about his affiliation with
| Fuzhou University in China affected federal agency
| funding decisions. _The Denver appeals court agreed 2-1
| that it was irrelevant_ because Tao had no grant
| proposals pending before those two agencies in question -
| the US Department of Energy and National Science
| Foundation - at the time he made his affiliation
| statement.
| elashri wrote:
| I know a lot of people who are working in collaboration with
| Chinese universities and does get funded from the US
| government budget (through NSF and DOE). DOE funds a lot of
| open research and not only the nuclear/national security
| related research. I don't think this is in itself a problem.
| I'm not sure also what is defined as a lie here. Exchanging
| emails with people interested in your research does not
| automatically mean you collaborate together. The case is
| ambiguous, and you shouldn't jump to generalization like
| that.
|
| There is no ban on collaborating with Chinese universities in
| the US. There are restrictions for some type of research
| (that actually extend to the other countries as well).
| cvoss wrote:
| The federal government has a strong interest in carefully
| selecting recipients of grant funds (often large sums) and in
| controlling the purposes and uses of those funds. As a
| condition of receiving funds, the government may naturally wish
| to confirm that recipients will not be using the funds in ways
| that benefit other state actors, in conflict with the
| government's policies.
|
| Officially misrepresenting that state of affairs to the
| government with so much on the line is what's illegal, not
| "sending an email to someone in China."
| bxparks wrote:
| Reminds me of another FBI espionage case that fell apart years
| ago... found it, Wen Ho Lee,
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee:
|
| "A federal grand jury indicted him on charges of stealing secrets
| about the U.S. nuclear arsenal for the People's Republic of China
| (PRC) in December 1999.[1] After federal investigators were
| unable to prove these initial accusations, the government
| conducted a separate investigation. Ultimately it charged Lee
| only with improper handling of restricted data, one of the
| original 59 indictment counts, a felony count. He pleaded guilty
| as part of a plea settlement.
|
| He filed a civil suit that was settled. In June 2006, Lee
| received $1.6 million from the federal government and five media
| organizations as part of a settlement leaking his name to the
| press before any charges had been filed against him.[2]
|
| Federal judge James A. Parker eventually apologized to Lee for
| denying him bail and putting him in solitary confinement. He
| excoriated the government for misconduct and misrepresentations
| to the court.[3] "
| perihelions wrote:
| A more recent case involved an attempted prosecution of an MIT
| professor. Going off journalistic reporting [0], the whole case
| was baseless--built on an incorrect understanding of key facts
| --and involved prosecutorial misconduct (illegal withholding of
| possibly exculpatory evidence).
|
| [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/gang-
| chen-c...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Chen_(engineer)#Federal_i...
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30082313 ( _" In the end,
| you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist_"; 446 comments)
| javiramos wrote:
| He was my thermodynamics professor. Seriously great guy and
| it pains me to hear what he had to go through.
| complaintdept wrote:
| > (illegal withholding of possibly exculpatory evidence)
|
| I hear about this sort of thing way too often. I say we make
| a new law that if prosecutors pull shit like this they get
| sentenced to triple the jail time/financial penalty the
| defendant _would_ have had, if convicted, and pay triple the
| legal expenses to defendant as well. This multiplier is often
| used in the law as deterrent where a 1x multiplier is not
| deemed sufficient for the total damage and inconvenience
| caused.
|
| Seriously, how can anyone be expected to trust the legal
| system when the state pulls shit like that without any
| consequences?
|
| If course, this will likely mean prosecutors will start
| destroying exculpatory evidence when possible.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| Does one owe taxes on a settlement with the Feds?
| IronWolve wrote:
| Think the real problem is innocent people are caught because the
| PRC does much spying (so does every country), so a few innocent
| people are falsely accused and convicted also. Figure about
| 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases, its just the way
| the world works sadly.
| no_exit wrote:
| > Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases
|
| Much higher than that in these particular cases, as noted in an
| article linked in OP:
|
| > A recent white paper by a non-partisan organisation of
| prominent Chinese Americans in business, government, academia
| and the arts, examined information on nearly 300 defendants
| charged under the US Economic Espionage Act (EEA) between 1996
| and 2020 [...] found that 27% of presumed Asian American
| citizens charged under the EEA were not convicted of any
| crimes. In total, the analysis showed that one in three Asian
| Americans alleged to have committed espionage may have been
| falsely accused.
|
| And I don't think the feds have had a better record
| 2020-present.
| bilbo0s wrote:
| If the bar is people who are arrested but _" were not
| convicted of any crimes"_, then yeah, the number is a whole
| lot higher for everyone. I'd estimate the 10-15% figure is
| for the people who are sent to prison. 10-15% of them are
| likely innocent. (Maybe more for certain demographics if it
| is easy to convict that demographic of crime.).
|
| But the percentage of arrests that do not lead to a
| conviction is astronomical. To a certain extent, mass arrest
| and detainment, even of the innocent, is just how the system
| works.
|
| It shouldn't work that way.
|
| But it is the reality on the ground right now. Not only that,
| but it's very hard to change for a lot of reasons.
| nimbius wrote:
| this new red scare has the potential to backfire just as
| spectacularly as it did in the 1950s, when it ended up landing a
| big win for Chinas ICBM program.
|
| https://radii.co/article/its-not-rocket-science-except-when-...
|
| we sentenced Qian to house arrest with zero evidence or charges,
| and in return Under Qian's direction, Chinese researchers
| developed the first generation of "Long March" missiles and in
| 1970 supervised the launch of Chia's first satellite.
|
| "I do not plan to come back," Qian bitterly told a reporter as he
| prepared to leave the country. "I have no reason to come back....
| I plan to do my best to help the Chinese people build up the
| nation to where they can live with dignity and happiness."
| justinclift wrote:
| Wonder how many people the UK screwed over with Brexit that now
| feel similarly towards the UK?
| empath75 wrote:
| I can't take the US cracking down on Chinese intellectual
| property theft seriously when we've been moving all of our
| manufacturing to China since the 1990s with the full help and
| support of the US government. There's nothing a random researcher
| could steal that could do a fraction of the amount of damage that
| that economic policy did to the US economy and society.
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(page generated 2024-07-23 23:05 UTC)