[HN Gopher] Chinese-born chemist cleared of last conviction unde...
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       Chinese-born chemist cleared of last conviction under US's
       espionage probe
        
       Author : crescit_eundo
       Score  : 90 points
       Date   : 2024-07-23 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.chemistryworld.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.chemistryworld.com)
        
       | crescit_eundo wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/kBcaq
        
       | hiddencost wrote:
       | $1M in remaining debt, lost his professorship and 2 years of
       | research... I think he deserves punitive damages.
        
         | buran77 wrote:
         | > I think he deserves punitive damages
         | 
         | Yes... Come 2025 he may just have to pay them.
        
         | dlivingston wrote:
         | Reading through the GoFundMe updates is heartbreaking:
         | https://www.gofundme.com/f/Legal-Defense-Fund-for-Franklin-T...
        
           | lossolo wrote:
           | Indeed, this quote hits hard: "The past five years have felt
           | like navigating the valley of death. Franklin and I, like
           | many of you in the Asian community, came to the USA to pursue
           | our dream through intelligence and hard work. We wanted to
           | contribute to all facets of this land, particularly in
           | research, while expecting in return basic respect. Despite
           | life not always aligning with our hopes, I am glad we have
           | stood up against political and arbitrary manipulations
           | targeting scholars of Asian origin. The success of our appeal
           | marks a significant milestone, and we deeply appreciate the
           | support from all of you. Your unwavering support has been
           | invaluable throughout this ordeal, and Franklin and I are
           | truly grateful for everything you have done. This hard-fought
           | win would not have been possible without your steadfast
           | commitment.
           | 
           | However, it is a bittersweet win. The total cost of fighting
           | these bogus charges for the past five years cost over $2.3
           | million, and we still carry over $1.1 million in debt despite
           | your generous support. Franklin has not earned a salary for
           | over four years. Our family is deeply in debt, and I kindly
           | request your assistance with this remaining legal defense
           | debt.
           | 
           | Once again, thank you for your exceptional dedication and
           | support. May GOD bless you and your family abundantly."
        
       | darthrupert wrote:
       | The difference between our system and theirs: in here, people are
       | usually let go if they are shown not to be guilty.
        
         | paganel wrote:
         | Not sure the Americans are in any position to preach when it
         | comes to their incarceration and capital punishment policies.
        
           | allemagne wrote:
           | In comparison to the People's Republic of China?
        
             | yardie wrote:
             | In comparison to the country that shoots you in the face
             | for being the wrong skin color?
        
           | simmerup wrote:
           | Atleast they don't let corrupt prison officers harvest their
           | prisoners organs
        
             | sauruk wrote:
             | Is this even a standard worth comparing ourselves to?
             | That's a bar so low that "at least we don't ..." doesn't
             | even make sense
        
             | braincat31415 wrote:
             | Which makes it ok.
        
             | janice1999 wrote:
             | There's literally a prison organ theft scandal ongoing in
             | Alabama at the moment.
             | 
             | https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/18/us/organs-removed-
             | decease...
        
             | snapcaster wrote:
             | Yeah they do sadly :(
        
         | buran77 wrote:
         | This wasn't an "honest mistake" conviction. Trying to turn a
         | complete embarrassment of a legal process, driven by a racially
         | biased witch hunt into a moral win is like saying that "in here
         | we rape you with lube and a condom".
         | 
         | What's even better than correcting mistakes and feeling warm
         | and fuzzy inside because you're better than some of the worst
         | is to not make them in the first place, at least when they're
         | as avoidable as this one.
        
           | aziaziazi wrote:
           | Also, you better got some dollar to merit the lube. From his
           | gofoundme last update:
           | 
           | > America has a great legal system if only you can afford it
        
         | fooker wrote:
         | As opposed to 'disappeared', for suspected espionage?
        
         | wheels wrote:
         | It's pretty revolting that you would turn this into a narrative
         | of American exceptionalism.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | That's not entirely true. You can be found factually innocent,
         | and still be unable to escape prison--due to the utterly
         | _Kafkaesque_ nature of the legal system.
         | 
         | Here's a case I read about over a decade ago, and never forgot:
         | 
         | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-aug-21-la-me-in...
         | ( _" Man behind bars 2 years after judge orders release"_
         | (2012))
         | 
         | - _" But two years after he was supposed to be released, Larsen
         | remains behind bars while the California attorney general
         | appeals the decision. The state's main argument: He did not
         | file his legal paperwork seeking release on time."_
        
       | garou wrote:
       | the yellow spectre is haunting america
        
       | mitchbob wrote:
       | Background: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/21/have-
       | chinese-s... (archived: https://archive.ph/5xUkU )
        
       | segasaturn wrote:
       | >In 2019, the United States Department of Justice indicted Tao
       | for 'failing to disclose conflict of interest with a Chinese
       | university' .. The evidence used by the Department of Justice was
       | obtained after Tao was reported to the FBI for alleged espionage
       | by a vengeful co-author, who presented manufactured evidence to
       | the FBI. Based on this evidence, the FBI obtained a search
       | warrant. Tao was subsequently indicted for an email regarding a
       | contract to teach in China, but not for alleged espionage
       | 
       | I don't even understand how any of this is illegal? You can be
       | thrown in prison and have your reputation and career ruined by
       | the government for sending an email to someone in China now?
        
         | 99_00 wrote:
         | He was taking money from the department of energy for research
         | while collaborating with Chinese universities and did not
         | disclose this and lied to investigators about it.
        
           | hermannj314 wrote:
           | Isn't that the charge he was cleared for?
        
             | dralley wrote:
             | He was cleared of espionage. He was not cleared for lying
             | about the conflict of interest.
        
               | Leary wrote:
               | That conviction was overturned a week ago[1]
               | 
               | [1] https://cen.acs.org/research-
               | integrity/misconduct/Court-over...
        
               | psychoslave wrote:
               | LOL. Because those that make these laws pass and
               | participate in the witch hunt turned into a justice show
               | never lied about conflict of interest, what actual agenda
               | they have in mind, and how much they really care abouto
               | serving humanity best interests.
        
               | no_exit wrote:
               | FTA:
               | 
               | > At issue in the new ruling, issued 11 July, is whether
               | Tao's lack of disclosure about his affiliation with
               | Fuzhou University in China affected federal agency
               | funding decisions. _The Denver appeals court agreed 2-1
               | that it was irrelevant_ because Tao had no grant
               | proposals pending before those two agencies in question -
               | the US Department of Energy and National Science
               | Foundation - at the time he made his affiliation
               | statement.
        
           | elashri wrote:
           | I know a lot of people who are working in collaboration with
           | Chinese universities and does get funded from the US
           | government budget (through NSF and DOE). DOE funds a lot of
           | open research and not only the nuclear/national security
           | related research. I don't think this is in itself a problem.
           | I'm not sure also what is defined as a lie here. Exchanging
           | emails with people interested in your research does not
           | automatically mean you collaborate together. The case is
           | ambiguous, and you shouldn't jump to generalization like
           | that.
           | 
           | There is no ban on collaborating with Chinese universities in
           | the US. There are restrictions for some type of research
           | (that actually extend to the other countries as well).
        
         | cvoss wrote:
         | The federal government has a strong interest in carefully
         | selecting recipients of grant funds (often large sums) and in
         | controlling the purposes and uses of those funds. As a
         | condition of receiving funds, the government may naturally wish
         | to confirm that recipients will not be using the funds in ways
         | that benefit other state actors, in conflict with the
         | government's policies.
         | 
         | Officially misrepresenting that state of affairs to the
         | government with so much on the line is what's illegal, not
         | "sending an email to someone in China."
        
       | bxparks wrote:
       | Reminds me of another FBI espionage case that fell apart years
       | ago... found it, Wen Ho Lee,
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee:
       | 
       | "A federal grand jury indicted him on charges of stealing secrets
       | about the U.S. nuclear arsenal for the People's Republic of China
       | (PRC) in December 1999.[1] After federal investigators were
       | unable to prove these initial accusations, the government
       | conducted a separate investigation. Ultimately it charged Lee
       | only with improper handling of restricted data, one of the
       | original 59 indictment counts, a felony count. He pleaded guilty
       | as part of a plea settlement.
       | 
       | He filed a civil suit that was settled. In June 2006, Lee
       | received $1.6 million from the federal government and five media
       | organizations as part of a settlement leaking his name to the
       | press before any charges had been filed against him.[2]
       | 
       | Federal judge James A. Parker eventually apologized to Lee for
       | denying him bail and putting him in solitary confinement. He
       | excoriated the government for misconduct and misrepresentations
       | to the court.[3] "
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | A more recent case involved an attempted prosecution of an MIT
         | professor. Going off journalistic reporting [0], the whole case
         | was baseless--built on an incorrect understanding of key facts
         | --and involved prosecutorial misconduct (illegal withholding of
         | possibly exculpatory evidence).
         | 
         | [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/gang-
         | chen-c...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Chen_(engineer)#Federal_i...
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30082313 ( _" In the end,
         | you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist_"; 446 comments)
        
           | javiramos wrote:
           | He was my thermodynamics professor. Seriously great guy and
           | it pains me to hear what he had to go through.
        
           | complaintdept wrote:
           | > (illegal withholding of possibly exculpatory evidence)
           | 
           | I hear about this sort of thing way too often. I say we make
           | a new law that if prosecutors pull shit like this they get
           | sentenced to triple the jail time/financial penalty the
           | defendant _would_ have had, if convicted, and pay triple the
           | legal expenses to defendant as well. This multiplier is often
           | used in the law as deterrent where a 1x multiplier is not
           | deemed sufficient for the total damage and inconvenience
           | caused.
           | 
           | Seriously, how can anyone be expected to trust the legal
           | system when the state pulls shit like that without any
           | consequences?
           | 
           | If course, this will likely mean prosecutors will start
           | destroying exculpatory evidence when possible.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | Does one owe taxes on a settlement with the Feds?
        
       | IronWolve wrote:
       | Think the real problem is innocent people are caught because the
       | PRC does much spying (so does every country), so a few innocent
       | people are falsely accused and convicted also. Figure about
       | 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases, its just the way
       | the world works sadly.
        
         | no_exit wrote:
         | > Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases
         | 
         | Much higher than that in these particular cases, as noted in an
         | article linked in OP:
         | 
         | > A recent white paper by a non-partisan organisation of
         | prominent Chinese Americans in business, government, academia
         | and the arts, examined information on nearly 300 defendants
         | charged under the US Economic Espionage Act (EEA) between 1996
         | and 2020 [...] found that 27% of presumed Asian American
         | citizens charged under the EEA were not convicted of any
         | crimes. In total, the analysis showed that one in three Asian
         | Americans alleged to have committed espionage may have been
         | falsely accused.
         | 
         | And I don't think the feds have had a better record
         | 2020-present.
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | If the bar is people who are arrested but _" were not
           | convicted of any crimes"_, then yeah, the number is a whole
           | lot higher for everyone. I'd estimate the 10-15% figure is
           | for the people who are sent to prison. 10-15% of them are
           | likely innocent. (Maybe more for certain demographics if it
           | is easy to convict that demographic of crime.).
           | 
           | But the percentage of arrests that do not lead to a
           | conviction is astronomical. To a certain extent, mass arrest
           | and detainment, even of the innocent, is just how the system
           | works.
           | 
           | It shouldn't work that way.
           | 
           | But it is the reality on the ground right now. Not only that,
           | but it's very hard to change for a lot of reasons.
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | this new red scare has the potential to backfire just as
       | spectacularly as it did in the 1950s, when it ended up landing a
       | big win for Chinas ICBM program.
       | 
       | https://radii.co/article/its-not-rocket-science-except-when-...
       | 
       | we sentenced Qian to house arrest with zero evidence or charges,
       | and in return Under Qian's direction, Chinese researchers
       | developed the first generation of "Long March" missiles and in
       | 1970 supervised the launch of Chia's first satellite.
       | 
       | "I do not plan to come back," Qian bitterly told a reporter as he
       | prepared to leave the country. "I have no reason to come back....
       | I plan to do my best to help the Chinese people build up the
       | nation to where they can live with dignity and happiness."
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | Wonder how many people the UK screwed over with Brexit that now
         | feel similarly towards the UK?
        
       | empath75 wrote:
       | I can't take the US cracking down on Chinese intellectual
       | property theft seriously when we've been moving all of our
       | manufacturing to China since the 1990s with the full help and
       | support of the US government. There's nothing a random researcher
       | could steal that could do a fraction of the amount of damage that
       | that economic policy did to the US economy and society.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-23 23:05 UTC)