[HN Gopher] July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Cor...
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       July 2024 Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen
       Desktop CPUs
        
       Author : acrispino
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2024-07-22 20:55 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (community.intel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (community.intel.com)
        
       | firebaze wrote:
       | Nice that Intel acknowledges there are problems with that CPU
       | generation. If I read this right, the CPUs have been supplied
       | with a too-high voltage across the board, with some tolerating
       | the higher voltages for longer, others not so much.
       | 
       | Curious to see how this develops in terms of fixing defective
       | silicon.
        
       | tux3 wrote:
       | Remains to be seen how the microcode patch affects performance,
       | and how these CPUs that have been affected by over-voltage to the
       | point of instability will have aged in 6 months, or a few years
       | from now.
       | 
       | More voltage generally improves stability, because there is more
       | slack to close timing. Instability with high voltage suggests
       | dangerous levels. A software patch can lower the voltage from
       | this point on, but it can't take back any accumulated fatigue.
        
       | loufe wrote:
       | Intel cannot afford to be anything but outstanding in terms of
       | customer experience right now. They are getting assaulted on all
       | fronts and need to do a lot to improve their image to stay
       | competitive.
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | Are the CPUs that we that received elevated operating voltage
       | permanently damaged?
        
         | Pet_Ant wrote:
         | This is the most pressing question. If it was just a microcode
         | issue a cooloff and power cycle ought to at least reset things
         | but according to Wendel from Level 1 Tech, that doesn't seem to
         | always be the case.
        
       | NBJack wrote:
       | I was concerned this would happen to them, given how much power
       | was being pushed through their chips to keep them competitive. I
       | get the impression their innovation has either truly slowed down,
       | or AMD thought enough 'moves' ahead with their
       | tech/marketing/patents to paint them into a corner.
       | 
       | I don't think Intel is done though, at least not yet.
        
       | magicalhippo wrote:
       | There was recently[1] some talk about how the 13th/14th gen
       | mobile chips also had similar issues, though Intel insisted it's
       | something else.
       | 
       | Will be interesting to see how that pans out.
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026123
        
         | tardy_one wrote:
         | For server CPUs there's not a similar problem or they realize
         | server purchasers may be less willing to tolerate it? I'm not
         | all that thrilled with the prospect of buying Intels especially
         | when wondering about waiting to 5 year out replacement compared
         | to a few generations ago, but AMD server choices can be a bit
         | limited and I'm not really sure how to evaluate if there may be
         | increasing surprises more across the board.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | The amount of current their chips pull on full boost is pretty
       | crazy. It would definitively not surprise me if some could get
       | damaged by extensive boosting.
        
       | brynet wrote:
       | Curious why Intel announced this on their community forums,
       | rather than somewhere more official.
        
         | samtheprogram wrote:
         | Optics / stock price
        
       | Covzire wrote:
       | Just want to say, I'm incredibly happy with my 7800X3D. It runs
       | ~70C max like Intel chips used to and with a $35 air cooler and
       | it's on average the fastest chip for gaming workloads right now.
        
       | fefe23 wrote:
       | So on one hand they are saying it's voltage (i.e. something
       | external, not their fault, bad mainboard manufacturers!).
       | 
       | On the other hand they are saying they will fix it in microcode.
       | How is that even possible?
       | 
       | Are they saying that their CPUs are signaling the mainboards to
       | give them too much voltage?
       | 
       | Can someone make sense of this? It reminds me of Steve Jobs' You
       | Are Holding It Wrong moment.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | After watching https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTeubeCIwRw and some
       | related content, I personally don't believe it's an issue fixable
       | with microcode. I guess we'll see.
        
       | acrispino wrote:
       | An Intel employee is posting on reddit:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/1e9mf04/intel_core_1...
       | 
       | A recent YouTube video by GamersNexus speculated the cause of
       | instability might be a manufacturing issue. The employee's
       | response follows.
       | 
       |  _Questions about manufacturing or Via Oxidation as reported by
       | Tech outlets:_
       | 
       |  _Short answer: We can confirm there was a via Oxidation
       | manufacturing issue (addressed back in 2023) but it is not
       | related to the instability issue._
       | 
       |  _Long answer: We can confirm that the via Oxidation
       | manufacturing issue affected some early Intel Core 13th Gen
       | desktop processors. However, the issue was root caused and
       | addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in 2023. We
       | have also looked at it from the instability reports on Intel Core
       | 13th Gen desktop processors and the analysis to-date has
       | determined that only a small number of instability reports can be
       | connected to the manufacturing issue._
       | 
       |  _For the Instability issue, we are delivering a microcode patch
       | which addresses exposure to elevated voltages which is a key
       | element of the Instability issue. We are currently validating the
       | microcode patch to ensure the instability issues for 13th /14th
       | Gen are addressed_
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-22 23:01 UTC)