[HN Gopher] Intel says 13th and 14th Gen mobile CPUs are crashing
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Intel says 13th and 14th Gen mobile CPUs are crashing
        
       Author : markus_zhang
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2024-07-21 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tomshardware.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tomshardware.com)
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | Ah but only due to a broad range of hardware and software issues,
       | not because of the same hardware issue killing the desktop
       | equivalents, so that's good news.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | When your processor is cooking itself to death, all bets are
         | off. We have seen some of them in our data center over the
         | years, albeit very rarely.
         | 
         | Interestingly, a modern processor is very resilient against
         | losing its functional blocks during operation. While this is a
         | boon, diagnosing these problems is a bit too complicated for
         | the inexperienced.
        
           | TomatoCo wrote:
           | > a modern processor is very resilient against losing its
           | functional blocks during operation
           | 
           | I'm very curious, can you elaborate on that?
        
             | echoangle wrote:
             | I'm not sure sure if that's what they meant, but generally,
             | CPUs will throttle or shut down if they detect overtemp,
             | hopefully before they start encountering errors which lead
             | to wrong calculation results/crashes.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | An x86 processor can detect when it makes a serious error
             | in some pipelines and rerun these steps until things go
             | right. This is the first line of recovery (this is why
             | temperature spikes start to happen when a CPU reaches its
             | overclocking limits. It starts to make mistakes and this
             | mechanism kicks in).
             | 
             | Also x86 has something called "machine check architecture"
             | which constantly monitors the system and the CPU and throws
             | "Machine Check Exceptions" when something goes very wrong.
             | 
             | These exceptions divide into "recoverable" and
             | "unrecoverable" exceptions. An unrecoverable exception
             | generally triggers a kernel panic, and recoverable ones are
             | logged in system logs.
             | 
             | Moreover, a CPU can lose (fry) some caches (e.g.: half of
             | L1), and it'll boot with whatever available, and report
             | what it can access and address. In some extreme cases, it
             | loses its FPU or vector units, and instead of getting
             | upset, it tries to do the operations at microcode level or
             | with whatever units available. This manifests as extremely
             | low LINPACK numbers. We had a couple of these, but I didn't
             | run accuracy tests on these specimens, but LINPACK didn't
             | say anything about the results. Just the performance was
             | very low when compared to normal processors.
             | 
             | Throttling is a normal defense against poor cooling. Above
             | mechanisms try to keep the processor operational in limp
             | mode, so you can diagnose and migrate somehow.
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | Based on Intel's behavior so far and the previous comment by
         | Alderon Games' founder, I'm not sure why you're so willing to
         | believe them at face value.
         | 
         | > "The laptops crash in the exact same way as the desktop parts
         | including workloads under Unreal Engine, decompression,
         | ycruncher or similar. Laptop chips we have seen failing include
         | but not limited to 13900HX etc.," Cassells said.
         | 
         | > "Intel seems to be down playing the issues here most likely
         | due to the expensive costs related to BGA rework and possible
         | harm to OEMs and Partners," he continued. "We have seen these
         | crashes on Razer, MSI, Asus Laptops and similar used by
         | developers in our studio to work on the game. The crash
         | reporting data for my game shows a huge amount of laptops that
         | could be having issues."
        
           | JonChesterfield wrote:
           | I'm totally willing to believe they're experiencing a broad
           | range of hardware and software issues :)
        
       | PaulKeeble wrote:
       | Its absurd this is still going on 6 months after the story first
       | broke and we are really none the wiser. With estimates of 10-25%
       | of CPUs impacted from the desktop side it seems likely all the
       | CPUs are going to fail (including mine). They can't even recall
       | and replace products yet as the problem isn't known. I sure hope
       | Intel isn't just hiding the cause when its known all along
       | because that is going to turn into big lawsuits across the world.
        
         | kingsleyopara wrote:
         | Completely agree. The lack of clarity around all this is hardly
         | confidence inspiring. Definitely seems like a good time to be
         | considering AMD or Qualcomm.
        
           | yellowapple wrote:
           | It does indeed make me glad I've opted to pick AMD over Intel
           | for my recent computer purchases (at least of the x86-64
           | variety).
        
             | Sparkyte wrote:
             | I've been using AMD since 2004. My first AMD processor was
             | the Athlon 64 3000+, I was a kid I wasn't really allowed
             | anything too expensive. We had dominately used Intel upt
             | that point but when 64bit CPUs hit it was a revolutionary
             | thing.
             | 
             | The roughest era of AMD CPUs was the FX era. While it was
             | comprable to its mid-range competition it was alos a sure
             | fast way to burn down your house with its power draw.
             | 
             | Ryzen was a huge step forward in CPU design and
             | architecture.
             | 
             | I see this era as Intel's FX era, if they have the right
             | leadership in place they can turn the boat around and
             | innovate.
        
               | SmellTheGlove wrote:
               | The funny part is that those FX processors were max 125w
               | TDP. No different than today really.
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | _> The roughest era of AMD CPUs was the FX era._
               | 
               |  _Ahem._ Bulldozer?
               | 
               |  _> Ryzen was a huge step forward in CPU design and
               | architecture._
               | 
               | First gen Ryzen was kinda mediocre. Second
               | gen(correction: meaning Zen 2 not Ryzen 2000 which was
               | still Zen 1) was where the performance came.
               | 
               | Also let's not ignore how they screwed consumers like me
               | by dropping SW support for Vega in 2023 while still
               | selling laptops with Vega powered APUs on the shelves all
               | the way till present day in 2024, or having a naming
               | scheme that's intentionally confusing to mislead
               | consumers where you don't know if that Ryzen 7000 laptop
               | APU has Zen2, Zen3, Zen3+ or Zen4 CPU cores, if it's 4nm,
               | 5nm, 6nm or 7nm or if it's running RDNA2, RDNA3 or the
               | now obsolete Vega in a modern system.[1] Maddening.
               | 
               | Despite that I'm a returning AMD customer to avoid Intel,
               | but I'm having my own issues now with their iGPU drivers
               | making me regret not going Intel this time around. The
               | grass isn't always greener across the fence, just
               | different issues.
               | 
               | I get it, you're an AMD fan, but let's be objective and
               | not ignore their stinkers and anti-consumer practices
               | which they had plenty of and only played nice for a while
               | to get sympathy because they were the struggling
               | underdog, but didn't hesitate to milk and deceive
               | consumers the moment they got back on top like any other
               | for profit company with a moment of market dominance.
               | 
               | My point being, don't get attached or loyal to any large
               | company, since you're just a dollar sign for all of them.
               | Be an informed consumer and make purchasing decisions on
               | objective current factors, not blind brand loyalty from
               | the distant past.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/1445760/amds-mobile-
               | ryzen-na...
               | 
               | https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-confusing-
               | naming...
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >>The roughest era of AMD CPUs was the FX era.
               | 
               | >Ahem. Bulldozer?
               | 
               | Bulldozer is the same as FX.
               | 
               | >AMD FX is a series of high-end AMD microprocessors for
               | personal computers which debuted in 2011, claimed as
               | AMD's first native 8-core desktop processor.[1] The line
               | was introduced with the Bulldozer microarchitecture at
               | launch (codenamed "Zambezi"), and was then succeeded by
               | its derivative Piledriver in 2012 (codenamed "Vishera").
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | _> AMD FX is a series of high-end AMD microprocessors for
               | personal computers which debuted in 2011_
               | 
               | Ha, well that's wrong. This is the first time I find a
               | mistake or more accurately, a contradiction in Wikipedia.
               | 
               | AMD's first FX CPU (the FX-51) came out in 2003 as a
               | premium Athlon 64 that was an expensive power hungry
               | beast, which is the one I assume the GP was talking
               | about. Here, also from Wikipedia:
               | 
               |  _" The Athlon 64 FX is positioned as a hardware
               | enthusiast product, marketed by AMD especially toward
               | gamers. Unlike the standard Athlon 64, all of the Athlon
               | 64 FX processors have their multipliers completely
               | unlocked."_
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_64#Athlon_64_FX
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | It's not contradictory. The "FX" you're talking about is
               | used as "Athlon FX"[1], whereas the "FX" in the article
               | is "AMD FX"[2]. The branding might be a bit confusing,
               | but the article isn't wrong.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AMD_Athlon64_FX.jpg
               | 
               | [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AMD_FX_CPU_Ne
               | w_logo....
        
               | yread wrote:
               | >The roughest era of AMD CPUs was the FX era.
               | 
               | Or the early Athlons that would literally burn down
               | without cooling?
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYQSHXNFvUk
        
               | echoangle wrote:
               | > First gen Ryzen was mediocre. Second gen was where the
               | performance came.
               | 
               | Are you sure? I just looked at Ryzen 5 1600 vs 2600
               | benchmarks and the difference is around 5%. And I also
               | remember the hype when the first generation was released.
               | I think Ryzen gen 1 was by far the largest step.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Modern chip model numbers are just branding, and one must
               | look at the benchmarks if you want value:
               | 
               | https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
               | 
               | Yes, it is deceptive and annoying shenanigans for retail
               | products =3
        
               | tedunangst wrote:
               | Zen 2 is Ryzen 3000.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | "Evil Inside(tm)" software made sure many of the
               | libraries and compilers had much slower performance on
               | AMD chips for years.
               | 
               | We had to use intel cpu/gpu + CUDA gpu simply because of
               | compatibility requirements (heavy media codecs and ML
               | workloads.)
               | 
               | Lets be honest, AMD technically has had a better product
               | for decades if you exclude the power consumption metric.
               | ARM64 v8 is also good, if and only if you don't need
               | advanced gpu features.
               | 
               | The Ryzen chips definitely are respectable in passmarks
               | benchmark value stats rankings. =)
        
               | mhitza wrote:
               | I remember that I received a ridiculously high RPM fan
               | with my FX-8350 CPU (in the box), which sounded like a
               | vacuum when it ran. Took me less than a week to upgrade
               | to a proper fan that managed to cool that damn thing at
               | 600RPM or so, and life was quiet again!
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | I'm still running that fan/CPU combo... I intended to
               | replace it many years ago but have never pulled the
               | trigger yet.
        
             | winrid wrote:
             | Did you use AM5? It was hardly without issues, with users
             | experiencing 30+ second POST times. I'm not even sure
             | that's fixed yet with most motherboards OOTB.
        
               | schmidtleonard wrote:
               | Wow, I was planning an AM5 build but 30 second POST is
               | yikes. Does it go away with an update?
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | The long POST times are a consequence of DDR5 link
               | training. It's not entirely an AMD-specific problem. Most
               | motherboards for either Intel or AMD now have a feature
               | to skip most of the link training if it doesn't look like
               | there's been a hardware change or since the last boot,
               | but it's unavoidable on the first boot.
        
             | zigzag312 wrote:
             | I've picked AMD over Intel too, but I've had so many issues
             | with it that I partly regret it. Memory stability issues,
             | extremely long boot times, too high voltage, iGPU driver
             | timeouts. Most of the issues have been fixed, but not all.
             | After months of dealing with an annoying memory leak, I've
             | just recently been able to confirm that it is caused by a
             | Zen 4 iGPU driver.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and test)
               | or temperature issues (the main reason we still use
               | mobile i7-12700H was cheap ddr4 64GB ram stick kit, Iris
               | media gpu drivers, and rtx CUDA gpu.)
               | 
               | Intel has its own issues, Gigabyte told me to pound sand
               | when asking to unlock the bios on my own equipment to
               | disable IME.
               | 
               | There is no greener grass on the fence line... just a
               | different set of issues =3
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | _> Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and
               | test) _
               | 
               | Since he's taking about iGPU issues, he most likely has a
               | laptop APU, so no RAM to reseat. I'm also having similar
               | issues on my Ryzen 7000 laptop. Kinda regret upgrading
               | from the Ryzen 5000 laptop which AMD obsoleted just 2
               | years after I bought it, as at least that had no issues.
               | Hopefully new drivers in the future will fix stability
               | but you never know.
               | 
               | What I do know, is that this will most likely be my last
               | AMD machine if Intel shows improvement to match AMD,
               | since their Linux driver support is just top notch.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Depends on the failure mode, as it is common for specs to
               | drift around under load (also, temperature cycling
               | stresses PCB, and can shear BGA connections.)
               | 
               | I'd try a slower cheap set of lower-bandwidth/higher-
               | latency ram sticks to see if it stops glitching up. If
               | you are using low latency sticks (iGPU means this is
               | usually recommended), than dropping the performance a bit
               | may stabilize your specific equipment.
               | 
               | Of course, I'm not that smart... so YMMV... =3
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | There are no sticks in my laptop. I was taking about
               | soldered RAM as is he norm on recent high speed LPDDR5X
               | laptops.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Please pull the chip maker/model off your rig:
               | 
               | sudo apt-get install cpu-x
               | 
               | sudo cpu-x
               | 
               | We may still be able to use this information to compare
               | with other users glitches to see if there is some
               | underlying similarity.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, if it is a thermal stress/warping on the
               | PCB cracking open RAM BGA balls on chips or shifting
               | traces... One won't really be able to completely identify
               | the intermittent issue.
               | 
               | We were actually looking at buying a similar economy
               | model earlier this year (ended up with a few classic
               | Lenovo models instead)... so please be verbose with the
               | make/model to help future searchers =3
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | Can't be thermal, I checked.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | X-ray vision like Superman I gather... nice... ;)
               | 
               | Please dump the problematic cpu/ram chip model numbers to
               | help other users. These chip manufacturer numbers is not
               | really personally identifiable information, as they are
               | shared between hundreds of thousands of products.
               | 
               | The classic cpu-z for Windows users is here if you don't
               | run *nix:
               | 
               | https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
               | 
               | Best regards, =3
        
               | zigzag312 wrote:
               | Desktop Ryzen 7950X.
               | 
               | Increasing the VRAM size (UMA size) to 4 GB fixed the
               | frequent driver timeouts for me.
               | 
               | Reverting to older driver (driver cleaner -> driver
               | v23.11.1) fixed the memory leak. This memory leak is
               | weird since PoolMon doesn't show anything unusual.
               | Nothing shows as using too much memory anywhere, except
               | committed memory size grows to over 100GB after few days
               | of uptime and RamMap shows a large amount of unused-
               | active memory.
        
               | baq wrote:
               | GPUs have the most complex drivers in the whole system,
               | we're talking tens of millions LOCs, so it is absolutely
               | not surprising that you're having issues like that given
               | how recent AMD's investment into APUs is. I wouldn't use
               | them for a few more years; get a cheap discrete GPU from
               | nvidia or maybe even from Intel.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | The rtx3090 is an Ampere gpu, and will apparently be
               | supported in the new open nVidia driver release.
               | 
               | Should get interesting soon =)
        
               | sekh60 wrote:
               | In Nova? Or just the in-kernel component?
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Press release:
               | 
               | https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-
               | fully-t...
               | 
               | Yet to personally try it out, but this should eventually
               | enable better integration with the library ecosystems. =3
        
               | onli wrote:
               | Hm? AMD's investing in APUs is not a new thing, that's
               | going back to the FX days with their FM1 socket. Since
               | Ryzen 1 they have their G APUs, and their integrated
               | graphics power the steamdeck and many other mobile
               | handhelds. Plus, Intel's integrated graphics are known
               | for their driver issues (and so is Arc, for now), so I'd
               | disagree with that recommendation.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Please pull the chip maker/model and ram details off your
               | rig:
               | 
               | sudo apt-get install cpu-x
               | 
               | sudo cpu-x
               | 
               | I think comparing your specifications may help other
               | users narrow down if a manufacturing or software defect
               | is present.
               | 
               | Thanks in advance =3
        
               | dist-epoch wrote:
               | I have a similar CPU, and I also get frequent iGPU
               | crashes, but only when opening multiple tabs (6+) with
               | video.
               | 
               | I also increased UMA to 4 GB, it reduced the crash
               | frequency, but it still happens.
               | 
               | The discrete NVIDIA GPU I use at the same time is fine.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Please post the cpu-z (win) or cpu-x (linux) chip
               | make/model for other users to compare/search.
               | 
               | If there is enough data here, we may be able to see a
               | common key detail emerge. i.e. if the anecdotal
               | problem(s) remain overtly random, than a solution from
               | the community or OEM may prove impossible.
               | 
               | Thanks in advance, =3
        
               | zigzag312 wrote:
               | I did ~12h RAM test few times and it always passed
               | successfully (except when I was testing EXPO profile on
               | early BIOS version).
               | 
               | I also did Prime95 CPU stress testing a few times without
               | issues.
               | 
               | All issues seem to be related to either BIOS or drivers.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Pleas join the branch discussing the idea of using
               | slower/cheaper RAM.
               | 
               | What is your current ram chip model, maker, and
               | configuration on your machine?
               | 
               | sudo apt-get install cpu-x
               | 
               | sudo cpu-x
               | 
               | Cheers, =3
        
               | zigzag312 wrote:
               | Corsair Vengeance 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MHz C36. Module Part
               | Number: CMH64GX5M2B5600C36. DRAM manufactured by Samsung.
               | 
               | Running RAM at default speeds (4800MHz) or using XMP
               | profile 5600MHz C36 doesn't affect these issues (they are
               | no more or less frequent).
               | 
               | EDIT: XMP profile, not EXPO.
        
               | Joel_Mckay wrote:
               | Thanks for helping the other users =3
        
               | zigzag312 wrote:
               | Some more info if it helps anyone:
               | 
               | CPU Ryzen 9 7950X. Family: F (ext.: 19), Model: 1 (ext.:
               | 61), Stepping: 2, Revision: RPL-B2.
               | 
               | iGPU: Raphael, revision: C1.
               | 
               | MB: ASUS TUF Gaming X670E-PLUS WiFi. Rev 1.xx.
               | Southbridge rev.: 51.
        
               | teeheelol wrote:
               | I would never buy an AMD machine again after my last
               | Ryzen 3600X. So many issues. It had to be power cycled
               | 2-3 times to get it to boot. Memory corruption issues and
               | stability issues galore. Not overclocked. Stock
               | configuration. Decent quality board and power supply.
               | Just hell.
               | 
               | Swapped board out assuming it was that. Same problem.
               | Turned out to be the CPU which was a pain in the ass
               | getting a warranty replacement for.
               | 
               | Ended up buying a new open box Intel 12400 Lenovo lump
               | off eBay and using that.
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | > Decent quality board
               | 
               | Which board was it?
        
             | ocdtrekkie wrote:
             | I've been staunchly an Intel stan since Pentium 4s were
             | cool and this year will be my first AMD build. Have already
             | been using their server hardware at the office and not
             | disappointed at all.
             | 
             | No particular straw broke the camel's back, they just
             | haven't managed to justify their price premium in a very
             | long time.
        
           | forinti wrote:
           | Just last week I bought a new desktop for a family member. I
           | was considering an Intel CPU, but at the last minute found a
           | better and cheaper option with an AMD processor. Am I glad I
           | dodged that bullet.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | I wonder if it's a hardware design or build defect, and the
         | solution may be too inhibiting of performance.
        
         | bitfilped wrote:
         | 10-25% are Intel's numbers, it's closer to 50% in production
        
           | DaoVeles wrote:
           | Hard to tell. My workplace is currently running on nothing
           | but 13th Gen i5' HP Elitebooks. We haven't had any issues but
           | then I suspect these would all be running CPUS from the same
           | batch, possibly even the same wafer.
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | I think I'm fine, my backup laptop is 12th gen... So should be
       | fine. Still amazing that it is two generations. Problems were not
       | noted or even considered already with 13th...
        
         | saltminer wrote:
         | > Still amazing that it is two generations.
         | 
         | The 14th gen is so similar to the 13th gen, Intel took a lot of
         | heat for it in the initial reviews. It's no surprise that they
         | both suffer the same ails.
        
           | wtallis wrote:
           | It's not similar. It's _literally_ the same silicon. They
           | didn 't tape out any new dies for the products branded as
           | "14th gen"; not even a new stepping. Just minor tweaks to the
           | binning.
        
             | 79a6ed87 wrote:
             | I didn't know that. I would like to know how to get more
             | informed about these kind of structural differences on CPU
             | generations.
             | 
             | Going back to the what you said, Intel selling the same
             | silicon as two different generations (even if this is still
             | just marketing terminology) is a bit lame on their side.
        
       | magicalhippo wrote:
       | The desktop CPU issues were discussed earlier here[1] and
       | here[2]. This is something else entirely, or so they say...
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40946644
       | 
       | [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39478551
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | Hmm I was considering buying the Lattepanda Sigma for a project,
       | but seeing it's a 13th gen mobile i5-1340P... err maybe not. It
       | is a shame though, it's beefier than any ARM board and AMD
       | doesn't seem to bother doing SBC integrations for some reason. I
       | guess they hate money.
        
         | omnimus wrote:
         | You can get something with N100 processor.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Yeah that would be the Delta, but it's significantly slower
           | (~6 times at multicore). The N100 is just a 9th gen Celeron
           | after all. I'm more or less looking for a complete powerhouse
           | in a smaller than ITX form factor for extremely compute
           | intensive multithreaded stuff.
        
           | _huayra_ wrote:
           | The N100 is great, hopefully not affected by this problem
           | though I'm not sure yet. It sips power and I've really liked
           | it for homelab use where memory and IO are more important
           | than core count (because most of the times things are idle,
           | but one wants to keep VMs in memory and oversub the cores).
        
           | Medox wrote:
           | Or something with an N97, which performs better but is less
           | power efficient. e.g. the new Odroid H4's
        
       | stevenhuang wrote:
       | I believe this was what caused sudden system instabilities on my
       | 13600kf. I even undervolted my chip (lite load 1) when I got it,
       | things ran fine for years until just a few weeks ago when I
       | started hard freezing. I ended up disabling XMP which "fixed" it.
        
       | mapt wrote:
       | Having put together an i7-12900k rig on a z690 six months ago,
       | two observations -
       | 
       | * DDR5 is wildly different from previous generations in being
       | much less stable with more DIMMs, due to timing synchronization
       | sensitivity. With four 6000 sticks I just flat out can't get more
       | than a 12 hour stable prime95, even at jedec-4800 certified
       | speeds. I can't even boot at 6000. My first few months were
       | plagued with random crashes minutes into loading a game.
       | 
       | * There is a consensus that we're operating at & beyond the limit
       | of this consumer ATX platform's TDP. There are recognized
       | limitations in the motherboard retention mechanism that has
       | prompted the use of aftermarket shims. Only the very top of the
       | line largest air heatsinks are practical, and even then you spend
       | much of the time thermally limited. Daring people regularly prove
       | that the heatspreader is a limiting factor by going back to bare
       | die cooling and getting five or ten degrees of advantage.
       | 
       | Because of the temp throttling becoming a normal state rather
       | than an emergency protection, better cooling translates directly
       | into higher performance.
       | 
       | Intel 13th gen and 14th gen were supposedly very similar, with
       | slight thermal improvements from the process node.
        
         | aspenmayer wrote:
         | If you have memory errors, you can corrupt your OS during
         | and/or after install time, which may explain some of your
         | instability. Memory errors must be resolved prior to OS
         | installation for any kind of expectations of problem-free
         | usage.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | An overnight run of memtest86+ with all the tests enabled
           | (including the RowHammer ones) is necessary to verify RAM
           | correctness. I wonder if the latter is related to this
           | somehow.
        
             | aspenmayer wrote:
             | I would agree with your recommendations and your concerns.
             | If you have RAM errors and proceed to install an OS, you're
             | gonna have a bad time.
             | 
             | Windows SFC scans, DISM, etc can fix up some these issues
             | after the fact, but unless you're also going to repair-
             | install all your software again, just save all the data and
             | reinstall. It's just not worth the trouble and you'll be
             | chasing your tail and ghosts forever.
        
         | wtallis wrote:
         | > With four 6000 sticks I just flat out can't get more than a
         | 12 hour stable prime95, even at jedec-4800 certified speeds. I
         | can't even boot at 6000.
         | 
         | Note that while your memory sticks may be rated to handle
         | JEDEC's DDR5-4800 speed, and faster with XMP profiles, Intel's
         | memory controller is only rated to operate at DDR5-4000 with
         | two single-rank modules per channel, and DDR5-3600 with two
         | dual-rank modules per channel. The speed of an individual DIMM
         | is not the only important factor anymore. For the 12th gen
         | parts, Intel didn't even promise DDR5-4800 unless the
         | motherboard only had one slot per channel.
        
       | yread wrote:
       | The original post is more informative:
       | 
       | https://www.radgametools.com/oodleintel.htm
       | 
       | > Intel 13900K and 14900K processors, less likely 13700, 14700
       | and other related processors as well
        
       | andix wrote:
       | Is anyone who knows about this still buying Intel? Seems like
       | taking quite a risk.
        
       | chad1n wrote:
       | A few years ago, if you said you buy AMD, people would think you
       | are hallucinating, but now it looks like it's the only reliable
       | vendor for x64. Intel was once the king of reliability, but in
       | the last years, it looks like the king of bugs.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | x64 or x86_64 or AMD64?
        
         | PartiallyTyped wrote:
         | That was around 6-7 years ago at this point. Personally, every
         | AMD machine I've had since then was very stable on Linux with
         | an NVDA gpu. My latest one, an intel + NVDA, had issues under
         | virtually all linux distros I had tried.
         | 
         | Now that I don't need CUDA anymore I might consider going full
         | team red.
        
           | 79a6ed87 wrote:
           | I would say that the AMD preferability came along with
           | Meltdown
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | I've experienced this with the extremely weird but cool intel
       | compute cards:
       | https://cdrdv2-public.intel.com/780985/nuc-13-compute-elemen...
       | 
       | Running a test linux build, 1/5 times it will crash/reboot mid
       | test. :(
        
         | shadowpho wrote:
         | Can you return them?
        
           | buildbot wrote:
           | Its passed the return window, I'm sure I could make a
           | warranty claim (and then be stuck with the same issue).
           | Luckily it was just one and I paid 200 total for the card and
           | chassis :)
        
       | teeheelol wrote:
       | I hear a lot of anecdotes and noise from YouTubers around this
       | but little to no actual data or analysis. I am a skeptic until I
       | see concrete data. That covers both the mobile and desktop
       | issues.
       | 
       | Observations so far are limited to:
       | 
       | I have seen actual evidence that some W680 boards have been
       | shipping with an unlimited power profile which will toast a CPU
       | fairly quickly. As to who's fault that is and if this correlates
       | or is casual to the rest of the reports I don't know.
       | 
       | My own Asus B760M board shipped with an unlimited power profile.
       | I had to switch it to "Intel Default". This machine has been
       | under heavy load with no issues so far.
       | 
       | When I have done research I have only found people reporting this
       | on custom build systems or low balling "servers". I haven't found
       | any viable big brand system failure reports yet (Dell/HP/Lenovo
       | etc). While some of this might be statistical failures I'd like
       | to see configuration eliminated from the data as a cause first.
       | 
       | I think it would be rather nice at this point if Intel produced
       | their own desktop boards again with their own tested BIOS. So we
       | have something viable to compare against a reference system
       | rather than the usual ugly junk shifter outfits or big brands. A
       | fully vertically integrated component PC would be a nice thing to
       | have again. They just worked!
        
         | fotcorn wrote:
         | Gamers Nexus is talking to one big PC manufacturer (my guess is
         | Dell) that is seeing failure rates of 10-25% for specific SKUs:
         | https://youtu.be/gTeubeCIwRw?t=527&si=YzpDzI2IyadzQYid
         | 
         | Not fully confirmed yet, but that sounds really bad. It seems
         | like it also hits low power models like the 13900T, which would
         | imply this isn't just a voltage issue from auto overclocking.
        
           | teeheelol wrote:
           | Yeah this is still second hand information though and there
           | isn't any data still. There may be confounding factors.
           | 
           | Lots of speculation that is all.
           | 
           | Someone (at intel) needs to get an incident management
           | process around this and start doing some proper comms.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | There was a prediction from 2016 that things would get much worse
       | for CPU bugs starting with Skylake:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16058920
       | 
       | It seems that article was updated with this one too.
        
         | DaoVeles wrote:
         | I used to say, 'Never bet against Intel' but the last 5-10
         | years or so have not been kind to them. They have been kicking
         | out the supports in the name of efficiency and we are seeing
         | the impacts of this now.
         | 
         | Same issue that is plaguing Boeing. MBA is now a swear word.
        
       | IAmNotACellist wrote:
       | And here I just bought a laptop with a 13900HX...
        
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