[HN Gopher] How to choose a textbook that is optimal for oneself?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to choose a textbook that is optimal for oneself?
        
       Author : JustinSkycak
       Score  : 142 points
       Date   : 2024-07-20 14:13 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (matheducators.stackexchange.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (matheducators.stackexchange.com)
        
       | cultofmetatron wrote:
       | This echoes my own experience. I made an attempt at andrew Ng's
       | revised machine learning course last year. I could understand
       | well enough at a high level how gradient descent worked but its
       | been 20 years since I did any calculus and the level to which my
       | ability to even do algebra had atrophied greatly. To their
       | credit, they derive the equations for you but I did't see how I
       | was going to be able to really apply any of what I learned when
       | the caclulus "handwaiving" is probably the most crucial step.
       | 
       | I'm a fulltime CTO so finding textbooks that can fill in the gaps
       | and finding endless problem sets to solve was just not going to
       | work. Luckiy, A good friend of mind from hack reactor clued me in
       | to mathacademy. I would argue thats its probably one of the
       | biggest underated resources for getting back in mathematical
       | shape. I've been setting aside an hour a day to just grind
       | through the lessons and problem sets that it throws at me. it
       | uses spaced repetition along with an inital placement test to
       | figure out what you're weak at and just hits you with those
       | problems as you improve.
       | 
       | echoing the sentiment in the article, you'll get better just
       | grinding though different problem sets consistently each day with
       | the occasional metaphorical boss battle. Once you realize that,
       | actually getting better at math is more of a logistical challenge
       | (having to track down skill appropriate problems to cut your
       | teeth on) Mathacademy basically automates that completely for
       | you. I've gone from giving up on ever getting into this machine
       | learnign stuff to looking forward to spending next year taking on
       | deep learning.
       | 
       | PS: not paid by mathacademy.com. just an incredibly pleased
       | custoner
       | 
       | Also PS: didn't realize you worked at math academy. any plans on
       | expanding into physics problems? would LOVE these ideas to delve
       | back into phsyics. (especially circuits.)
        
         | gabrielsroka wrote:
         | The OP is Chief quant at mathacademy.com
        
           | cultofmetatron wrote:
           | omg.. that explains a lot.
        
         | JustinSkycak wrote:
         | Wow! Love running into MA users. Your comment totally made my
         | day. Thanks for the kind words and I'm so happy that the system
         | is working out for you. After all the work we've put into
         | building this thing, it's the best feeling ever to hear about
         | positive impact it's having on people's lives.
         | 
         | > any plans on expanding into physics problems? would LOVE
         | these ideas to delve back into phsyics. (especially circuits.)
         | 
         | Our grand plan is to completely fill out out math courses, then
         | expand to other related fields such as computer science and
         | physics.
        
           | cultofmetatron wrote:
           | >it's the best feeling ever to hear about positive impact
           | it's having on people's lives.
           | 
           | you guys deserve it! its a great product. admittedly its a
           | bit spartan/plain in terms of ui but I respect that you guys
           | focus on substance over useless shit that emphasizes
           | edutainment over actual actionable knowledge _cough_
           | brilliant _cough_
        
             | JustinSkycak wrote:
             | Yeah, we realize the UI is a bit spartan. No disagreement
             | there; it's a valid critique. As you say, we're focusing on
             | functionality and content first since that's what really
             | moves the needle on people's learning -- but yes, we're
             | also going to be adding some bells and whistles in the
             | future.
        
         | amun_dev wrote:
         | I signed up for mathacademy and I'm extremely overwhelmed by
         | the courses. I'm not exactly sure what course I am supposed to
         | start with. I went with Linear Algebra and I'm going through
         | the diagnostics but I'm struggling with all the questions so
         | far.
        
           | JustinSkycak wrote:
           | Hey! So, sometimes adult learners sign up for a university-
           | level math class not realizing how serious our courses are or
           | how much foundational knowledge is necessary (or how much of
           | it they never actually learned during school, or how much of
           | it they've forgotten since then).
           | 
           | That's totally fine and all it means is you may need to start
           | off in a lower course to shore up your missing foundations
           | [1].
           | 
           | There have been so many people in this situation that we
           | actually designed a Mathematical Foundations course sequence
           | specifically for adults who want to get up to speed or
           | relearn math skills they have forgotten (from fractions
           | through calculus) as preparation for upper-level university
           | math courses. More info here:
           | https://www.mathacademy.com/adult-students.
           | 
           | Please do let me know if you have any follow-up questions
           | about that or if anything is unclear. I'm always happy to
           | chat with people who are serious about learning math.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Footnotes
           | 
           | [1] Note that we do check for missing foundations during
           | diagnostics, and any that we find we'll add to your learning
           | plan -- but currently there's a limit to how far we look
           | back. For Linear Algebra, we only look back to the beginning
           | of Algebra 2. So if you're rusty on any Algebra 1 stuff --
           | factoring, quadratic equations, systems of linear equations,
           | etc. -- or arithmetic stuff like working with
           | fractions/exponents, then you'll need to drop back to a lower
           | course to shore up those foundations.
        
             | amun_dev wrote:
             | That makes sense, I'll try out Mathematical Foundations I
             | and go from there.
        
               | JustinSkycak wrote:
               | Sounds like a plan! If you run into any issues at all,
               | feel free to ping me on X/Twitter
               | (https://x.com/justinskycak) or shoot me an email
               | (justin@mathacademy.com). The first piece of the puzzle
               | to learning math is just getting on the rails at the
               | appropriate level and I want to make sure we help you get
               | over that hump.
        
         | throwaway81523 wrote:
         | Why not work with a tutor? Also I found the fast.ai videos good
         | for explaining stuff like gradient descent.
         | 
         | I don't see spaced repetition being useful for theoretical math
         | though maybe it is ok for calculation. Main thing as you say is
         | grind out problem sets, and that's more a question of logistics
         | and motivation than finding the right textbook.
         | 
         | I've always been skeptical of sites like mathacademy but I'll
         | take a look at it.
        
       | davikr wrote:
       | I download the most textbooks I can, for evaluating which appeal
       | to me, and then use that one. If I don't like a chapter on it, I
       | look for another one.
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | My credentials for textbooks for self learning:
       | 
       | 1. Must explain stuffs in a clear way.
       | 
       | 2. Must give enough examples.
       | 
       | 3. Must have many exercises AND a solution book for at least some
       | of them.
       | 
       | Context: prepraing to study all undergraduate Math and Physics
       | courses to get a holding of General Relativity. Since I graduated
       | as a Math Master but forgot most of it, I have to start from
       | Calculus and Linear Algebra. I count about 8-10 courses for the
       | journey.
        
       | grepLeigh wrote:
       | I recently learned about mathematical maturity:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_maturity
       | 
       | Previously, I thought certain math topics were "hard" (e.g.
       | category theory) while others were supposed to be "easy" (e.g.
       | Calc I). I beat myself up for struggling with the "easy" topics
       | and believe this precluded me from ever tackling "hard" topics.
       | 
       | I was thirty-something years old when I finally realized math has
       | a well-documented maturity model, just like emotional maturity or
       | financial maturity. This realization inspired me to go back and
       | take a few math classes that I had previously labeled as "too
       | hard," with the mindset that I was progressing my math maturity.
       | 
       | My point is that choosing an "age-appropriate" (in terms of math
       | maturity, not actual calendar age) textbook is important. I also
       | find it extremely helpful to chat with people who are more
       | mathematically mature than I am, in the same way it's helpful to
       | seek advice from an older sibling.
        
         | 4ad wrote:
         | I am not sure what you are trying to say because your message
         | and your posted link seem to be an odds with each other.
         | 
         | Mathematical maturity has all to do with practice and
         | experience and nothing to do with age.
         | 
         | Category Theory is easy because it starts from nothing,
         | literally. You can learn it at any age and with no almost no
         | prior education. Same with various formal logics.
         | 
         | You can't study or use in any way the theory of Calabi-Yau
         | manifolds unless you have mastered _all_ of its prerequisites.
         | 
         | Certainly the advice of not choosing textbooks you don't
         | understand is spot on, however. Unfortunately (?) most
         | textbooks assume quite a bit of background, so you don't often
         | have much choice in this regard.
        
           | CamelCaseName wrote:
           | Is there a map of this? Would love to see which topics branch
           | of each other and which start from scratch
        
             | plonk wrote:
             | Big schools' curricula? Look at some top school's math
             | undergrad courses and graph them
        
             | 4ad wrote:
             | I am not aware of any good one, but I realized you could
             | probably mechanically extract such a map from Lean's
             | mathlib[0][1].
             | 
             | Since Lean builds everything from scratch, this should be
             | doable, albeit Lean builds everything on top of type theory
             | which is not the only choice possible. Different
             | foundations will result in a different graph.
             | 
             | Also the best way to learn math is probably not by
             | following this sort of graph, it would be far too abstract
             | and disconnected from both the real world and usual
             | practical applications.
             | 
             | [0] https://leanprover-community.github.io/mathlib4_docs/
             | 
             | [1] https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib4
        
           | throwaway81523 wrote:
           | While beginning calculus students often pick up derivatives
           | and integrals (and the associated formulas) easily, the
           | delta-epsilon definitions of limits and continuity are a well
           | known stumbling block for many. I've been told that the
           | difficulty stems from that being the first place math
           | beginners really see nested quantifiers: (forall
           | epsilon)(exists delta)(...). In logic though, nested
           | quantifiers are fundamental. I don't know what happens if
           | someone tries to study logic without first having studied
           | calculus. Maybe it's a good idea, but few people do it that
           | way.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | Delta epsilon is just an annoying unenlightening
             | technicality, not the essence of real analysis. Surreal
             | numbers (infinitesimals)solve the problem more elegantly.
        
               | tnh wrote:
               | To each his own, but epsilon-delta is my go-to example of
               | formalizing an intuitive concept ("gets closer and
               | closer"), which is a high-level mathematical skill.
               | 
               | The intuition and the formalism are presented together
               | (at least, they should be!). To learn the role of epsilon
               | and delta, the student needs to jump back and forth,
               | finding the correspondences between equations and the
               | motivation. This is a skill that needs practice; this was
               | one of the first places I found the equations dense
               | enough that I couldn't just "swallow them whole".
               | 
               | (The earlier I remember is the quadratic formula, which I
               | first painfully memorized as technical trivia. It took me
               | a couple of years to grasp that it was completing-the-
               | square in general form. Switching between the general and
               | the specific is another skill that you develop)
        
               | throwaway81523 wrote:
               | Surreal analysis is sort of a thing but it is quite far
               | out there (e.g. you can have transfinite series instead
               | of merely infinite ones). Maybe you meant nonstandard
               | analysis (NSA), which is real analysis done with
               | infinitesimals, but the machinery justifying it is way
               | outside of what you'd see in even a theory-oriented intro
               | calculus class. There was an intro calculus text
               | (Keisler, 1976) that used infinitesimals and NSA. I don't
               | know how it dealt with constructing them though.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_Calculus:_An_Inf
               | ini...
        
             | chucksmash wrote:
             | > I don't know what happens if someone tries to study logic
             | without first having studied calculus.
             | 
             | When I was in college, the Philosophy department offered
             | this course. It was considered an easy way to get a general
             | education math credit without needing to be good at math.
             | It was a really enjoyable course[0] that put me on the path
             | to becoming a computer programmer. It occasionally comes in
             | handy[1].
             | 
             | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37655058
             | 
             | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23412641
        
             | Onavo wrote:
             | The problem is that epsilon deltas have very little
             | practical use outside of theoretical proofs in pure
             | mathematics. Even for cutting edge CS/statistics fields
             | like high level machine learning, most of the calculus used
             | are existing formalisms on multidimensional statistics and
             | perhaps differential equations. Aside from Jensen's
             | inequality and the mean value theorem, I have never seen
             | any truly useful epsilon delta proofs being used in any of
             | the ML papers with significant impact. It's perhaps
             | mentioned once in passing when teaching gradient descent to
             | grad students.
        
               | throwaway81523 wrote:
               | > Even for cutting edge CS/statistics fields like high
               | level machine learning, most of the calculus used are
               | existing formalisms on multidimensional statistics and
               | perhaps differential equations.
               | 
               | If you mean experimental work, then sure, that's like
               | laboratory chemistry. You run code and write up what you
               | observe happens. If you're trying to prove theorems, you
               | have to understand the epsilon delta stuff even if your
               | proofs don't actually use it. It can be somewhat
               | abstracted away by the statistics and differential
               | equations theorems that you mention, but it is still
               | there. Anyway, the difficulty melts away once you have
               | seen enough math to deal with the statistics,
               | differential equations, have some grasp of high
               | dimensional geometry, etc. It's all part of "how to think
               | mathematically" rather than some particular weird device
               | that one studies and forgets.
        
           | xanderlewis wrote:
           | > Category Theory is easy because it starts from nothing,
           | literally.
           | 
           | It has virtually no prerequisites, at least in classical
           | mathematics. But I wouldn't call it 'easy' (indeed, many
           | proficient in elementary calculus and so on find it very
           | hard). If you study category theory with no knowledge of any
           | of the concepts it's designed to abstract it's not going to
           | make any sense and the whole exercise is pointless. You may
           | be able to follow it and complete exercises, but you won't
           | actually grok it.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | It's sufficiently general as to be approachable from all
           | angles but to actually understand _why_ anything is being
           | discussed I think category theory requires a certain amount
           | of background material.
        
         | landosaari wrote:
         | Thomas Garrity discussing mathematical maturity [0]
         | 
         | Author of _All the Math You Missed: But Need to Know for
         | Graduate School_
         | 
         | [0] https://inv.tux.pizza/watch?v=zHU1xH6Ogs4
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | This was very much my experience with computer science. When I
         | first studied computer science in middle school at age 13, I
         | could only understand simpler algorithms like quicksort. I
         | simply couldn't grasp dynamic programming. When I studied it
         | again at age 19 (after having learned a couple of more
         | programming languages like C++ and Python and Haskell, as well
         | as taken some classes in mathematical proofs), it became much
         | easier to understand. And then it was around age 22 when I
         | could solve competition-style dynamic programming problems with
         | ease.
        
       | Frieren wrote:
       | If you look for optimal you are going to spend more time looking
       | for that textbook than learning.
       | 
       | The optimal solution is to find a good enough textbook and start
       | as soon as possible to learn and tonstop procrastinating.
        
         | magnio wrote:
         | Yeah, this is it. A year ago if I tried to find the perfect
         | textbook to learn Linear Algebra, I would still be looking.
         | 
         | There are certainly good and bad textbooks, and a book good for
         | many people might be unsuitable for your style, your goals, and
         | your background. But there are plenty of good enough textbooks,
         | trudging through any of them will yield far more benefits than
         | getting that ideal book.
        
           | blopker wrote:
           | If you're still looking, Gilbert Strang makes the best
           | introduction book I know of:
           | https://math.mit.edu/~gs/linearalgebra/ila6/indexila6.html
        
             | plonk wrote:
             | I like that he leaves determinants to a later chapter and
             | doesn't _start_ with them, I never understood why they were
             | useful or made sense. His view, represented on the cover,
             | is great for learning
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | I don't understand the anti-determinant brigade. Many
               | linear algebra books don't don't start with determinants.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | > A year ago if I tried to find the perfect textbook to learn
           | Linear Algebra, I would still be looking.
           | 
           | You know, there is a textbook for Linear Algebra that's
           | literally titled "Linear Algebra Done Right". It's pretty
           | much what it says on the tin.
        
             | apocadam wrote:
             | Equally there is also a text called "Linear Algebra Done
             | Wrong"
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Not equally, better. It's intended as a book for learning
               | the concepts of Linear Algebra intuitively and with some
               | introductory rigor, before doing it "right" in a
               | professional way.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | And it is strongly discouraged as a first book, by the
             | author himself!
             | 
             | https://linear.axler.net/
             | 
             | > This best-selling textbook for a second course in linear
             | algebra is aimed at undergraduate math majors and graduate
             | students.
             | 
             | > No prerequisites are assumed other than the usual demand
             | for suitable _mathematical maturity_.
        
           | ghostpepper wrote:
           | This seems a false dichotomy to me.
           | 
           | Surely the optimal solution would be to spend a few hours /
           | days in the first week picking the textbook, then 51 weeks
           | studying it, as opposed to literally picking the first one
           | you see and studying it for 52 weeks.
        
         | mbivert wrote:
         | It's a common issues with self-learners, mathematics or not:
         | there is no perfect course out there, and switching from
         | courses to courses can be wasteful.
         | 
         | In my experience, focusing on a single, good-enough course
         | (when in doubt, go for a famous/respected author/field
         | contributor) and looking for other sources once in a while, has
         | been the best approach.
        
           | rochak wrote:
           | Applies the same to job search too. Find one that is good
           | enough and then work from there for future prospects. Often,
           | the definition of "good" changes over time as priorities in
           | life change.
        
             | ghostpepper wrote:
             | Sort of related
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem
        
         | iamsaitam wrote:
         | And if you pick up the wrong one, you might just end up
         | dropping the whole ordeal. It's not so black and white, it
         | makes sense to spend a bit of time and figuring out a good
         | resource. At the least you'll get a sense of the domain's main
         | trunk of knowledge, get into the jargon, etc.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | If you pick up one knowing you can try a different one,
           | putting it down isn't dangerous.
        
       | aranchelk wrote:
       | For a business I had to learn how to design parts for mass
       | production injection molded plastic. It's simple in concept but
       | the devil is in the details, of which there are a great many.
       | 
       | I couldn't find a general non-fiction book with the information I
       | needed, so I found and ordered the best textbook I could find on
       | the subject.
       | 
       | Teaching yourself from textbooks, I think you just have to be
       | prepared for a serious grind, involving lot's of looking up math
       | and other terms that you either forgot or never knew, trips down
       | the Wikipedia rabbit hole, etc.
       | 
       | Those books are, for the most part, designed as teaching tools to
       | accompany classroom learning -- sometimes the whole class is
       | going to come and not have a clue what they've read, and it'll be
       | via class or office hours they figure out WTF is going on. These
       | books are not designed for autodidacts.
       | 
       | I could be less charitable and talk about a lack of competitive
       | pressure and perverse incentives for selection of academic books,
       | but I'll leave it at that.
       | 
       | Worked out for me and the manufacturer I was working with said we
       | were the most professional part designers he'd worked with (we
       | were helped tremendously by software I'd written), he wasn't a
       | bullshitter generally, so I'm inclined to believe it.
       | 
       | You can be successful but it's going to take a lot more energy
       | than it would with a nice trade book with an animal on the cover.
        
         | marai2 wrote:
         | "... I couldn't find a general non-fiction book with the
         | information I needed, so I found and ordered the best textbook
         | I could find on the subject."
         | 
         | Which textbook did you get?
        
       | behnamoh wrote:
       | IMO textbooks are dead and they were never a great source of
       | knowledge to begin with. The idea of reading some piece of text
       | written by someone, then edited by someone else, and expressed in
       | an "appropriate" style and language (think formal language which
       | uses fancy jargon), and then having to robotically solve some
       | end-of-chapter problems is just absurd. My experience tells me
       | the "gems" of knowledge are often found when authors and experts
       | just say whatever the fuck they want on a forum or in personal
       | discussions. That obviously presumes those authors actually know
       | what they're talking about. So many math, physics, engineering,
       | etc. books are written by people who had no business talking
       | about those topics.
        
         | aio2 wrote:
         | i fw this
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Is this parody?
        
       | rhelz wrote:
       | There is no optimal textbook. This is a constraint satisfaction
       | problem, not an optimization problem.
       | 
       |  _ANY_ textbook you sit down and read, and solve its problem sets
       | is infinitely better than _ANY_ textbook you don 't.
       | 
       | Stop bike shedding and start studying!!!
        
         | anthomtb wrote:
         | 100%.
         | 
         | The best time to start studying mathematics was when you were
         | 4, with multiple private tutors and supportive-yet-not-
         | overbearing parents who are also math educators.
         | 
         | The second best time is right now, with whatever materials you
         | have in front of you.
        
       | max_ wrote:
       | I thought it was just me but 2 mathematicians I look up to.
       | 
       | The guy behind Stat Quest & Harry Crane.
       | 
       | Both have explicitly said that there is simply no good book for
       | their maths fields (statistics & probability).
       | 
       | This really needs to be fixed.
       | 
       | Since I alot of people think they are "not gifted" at maths when
       | the real problem is that there is simply very bad study material.
        
         | plonk wrote:
         | Don't machine learning books kind of fill that gap? e.g. Bishop
         | uses probabilistic reasoning, Elements of Statistical Learning
         | seems to be heavy on frequentist stats (haven't read it
         | though), etc.
        
         | brennanpeterson wrote:
         | But there are great books in this area?
         | 
         | https://www.statlearning.com
         | 
         | https://www.stat.cmu.edu/~cshalizi/ADAfaEPoV/
         | 
         | There are other fine ones, but these are very good.
        
           | max_ wrote:
           | Why isn't there a text book that explains math content as
           | simply as Stat Quest?
           | 
           | Also, thanks for the resources, they look really good.
        
       | Vaslo wrote:
       | I avoid any book that have complicated equations on the first few
       | pages. There is a place for that but in this case the author is
       | just trying to show everyone how smart and complex they are
       | rather than trying to teach people.
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | Maybe the equations are there because they are important and
         | instructive?
        
       | cubefox wrote:
       | Exercises in textbooks usually focus on proofs, but mathematics
       | isn't just about proving theorems. Mathematics is also about:
       | 
       | 1. Understanding mathematical concepts (e.g. what is an "acyclic"
       | relation? What is KL divergence?) and theories (several
       | interrelated concepts, e.g. decision theory). This also includes
       | knowing why those concepts are important in the first place,
       | which is often neglected.
       | 
       | 2. Knowing the meaning of mathematical notation and technical
       | terms, e.g. to be able to read papers in some field. Papers are
       | often full of mathematical and other jargon while otherwise not
       | necessarily being difficult to follow.
       | 
       | 3. Learning mathematical formulas (e.g. Bayes' rule) and
       | algorithms (e.g. differentiation), in order to solve specific
       | problems by calculation or computation (mostly in applied
       | mathematics, more rarely in pure mathematics)
       | 
       | 4. Proving conjectures (mostly in pure mathematics, less often in
       | applied mathematics)
       | 
       | 5. Learning how to formalize informal problems using mathematical
       | concepts and theories (by applying conceptual understanding
       | gained by 1) in order to understand the problem better, or to
       | make it easier to solve, e.g. by employing calculation (2). (This
       | is often done in engineering and science)
       | 
       | Problem sets in textbooks often focus on proofs (4) or some more
       | difficult algorithms (3) but less on the other applications of
       | mathematics.
       | 
       | They could also check conceptual understanding (1) by asking the
       | reader to explain some concept in their own terms, or how two
       | different concepts relate to each other, or which concepts
       | various example cases have in common, or how the cases differ on
       | a conceptual level. Though verifying the answers might require a
       | human teacher.
       | 
       | 5) could be taught by coming up with word problems from a
       | scientific or engineering (or economics etc) example, where the
       | solution is easy once the correct formalization is known.
       | 
       | Unfortunately it is hard to come up with such artificial word
       | problems in which the correct formalization is unique, non-
       | trivial, and doesn't require technical background knowledge from
       | engineering/science etc.
       | 
       | Moreover, in the real world, the difficulty with formalization is
       | often to recognize in the first place that there is some problem
       | that could be formalized, which can't be replicated in an
       | artificial word problem.
       | 
       | Overall, coming up with good exercises, especially for 5, but
       | also partly for 1, might require the writer of the textbook to
       | know a lot of possible practical applications. Writers of math
       | textbooks are often mathematicians, so they probably don't know a
       | lot about engineering, computer science, empirical science etc in
       | order to come up with good word problems.
        
       | ziroshima wrote:
       | There needs to be more resources for self-learning. Solutions
       | need to be provided for problems, with clear explanations. It's a
       | different mindset from a formal academic setting, where there's a
       | strong focus on cheating prevention.
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | A Textbook is good enough for self learning. Almost all
         | university learning is "self learning", at least that has been
         | the case for my mathematical training.
         | 
         | > It's a different mindset from a formal academic setting,
         | where there's a strong focus on cheating prevention.
         | 
         | What? Who cares about cheating prevention, most of my classes
         | had oral exams, you can't cheat there.
        
           | ziroshima wrote:
           | I agree with you. It's been my experience though that
           | tracking down solutions manuals for textbooks is very hard.
           | Presumably because they want them out of the hands of
           | students (to prevent cheating).
        
             | danielmarkbruce wrote:
             | 100%. This is the missing piece in many cases.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Maybe for specific textbooks, but if you just want e.g.
             | introductory calculus with solutions those books are all
             | over eBay.
             | 
             | Or use Wolfram.
        
           | ralphc wrote:
           | I never had an oral exam. How is that feasible with class
           | sizes, how many questions are asked? What's it like in
           | general?
        
             | constantcrying wrote:
             | These were master and late Bachelor courses, so 30 people
             | at most. Exams lasted around 60 minutes, of which around 45
             | were questions.
             | 
             | >how many questions are asked?
             | 
             | Totally depends on the subject and how the exam goes.
             | 
             | >What's it like in general?
             | 
             | Your professor is poking you with questions. Usually he has
             | prepared some general questions and then asks follow ups.
             | It might go something like this. "What is X Theorem? What
             | does it represent geometrically? Does conditions Z need to
             | be true for the Theorems to hold? Can you name a counter
             | example? How does the proof (discussed in lecture) look
             | like? How exactly do you construct that part? Where do you
             | need that condition? Here is a similar theorem (not
             | discussed in class), can you outline a proof for this?"
        
         | mbivert wrote:
         | I'd go a bit deeper: as we developed, in particular with the
         | advent of the Internet, we went from scarcity of information to
         | spectacular opulence. This demands different studying habits
         | that what we had 30 years ago or so.
         | 
         | For example, we need to find ways to filter out noise from
         | signal, or to connect scattered bits of knowledge from various
         | sources to get intelligible solutions to problems (most
         | problems can be solved by googling around, especially in
         | maths/physics, because people of all levels have been
         | asking/answering questions for Internet points e.g. on Stack
         | Exchange & cie for many years now, but -- take it as a feature
         | -- you have to work a little to get there).
         | 
         | EDIT: regarding solutions, it's not just about preventing
         | cheating, it's because teachers wants you to do the work. The
         | point isn't necessarily to succeed in solving problems, but
         | more to have you try, get creative, etc.
         | 
         | Perseverance is crucial to move forwards. But they could still
         | provide clear and/or progressive solutions, I fully agree.
        
         | joshlemer wrote:
         | Funny you say that. I recently picked up a textbook on
         | Corporate Finance for self-learning purposes. Going through the
         | problem sets, it's not really that useful if you have no idea
         | if you got the answer right or not. Looked all around online
         | for where to buy the solutions manual, ended up just calling
         | the publisher to ask. Turns out they refuse to sell the
         | solutions manual to anyone not a registered instructor at a
         | University.
         | 
         | It took like 5 minutes on the phone to even explain to them
         | that I'm reading the book for self learning purposes. Like
         | they'd never encountered such a thing. Even after explaining,
         | they wouldn't let me have the solutions.
         | 
         | I ended up just going on the black market, and finding some
         | anonymous person to sell me the solutions on WhatsApp for $25.
        
           | ghodith wrote:
           | Now would be a good time to upload the solutions to libgen so
           | other people can skip the black market
        
           | mi_lk wrote:
           | How does one access the said black market? I might adventure
           | myself to acquire similar things
        
         | ZoomerCretin wrote:
         | I'd really like a Khan Academy-like site, maybe with
         | explanations from different textbooks for each concept. Of
         | course then you'd need a good set of diverse problems or a way
         | to generate such problems.
        
         | spoonfeeder006 wrote:
         | I'm trying to find a calculus book that goes incredibly deep
         | into integration techniques
         | 
         | Still searching, so if anyone has any tips I'd love to hear
        
           | cevi wrote:
           | Have you tried to read any of the literature on the Risch
           | algorithm? If you haven't, you might want to get started by
           | taking a look at the paper "Integration in Finite Terms" by
           | Rosenlicht [1] and chasing down some of the references
           | mentioned in [2].
           | 
           | Of course, in the real world we don't give up on integrals
           | just because they can't be expressed in terms of elementary
           | functions. Usually we also check if the result happens to be
           | a hypergeometric function, such as a Bessel function. If you
           | want to get started on understanding hypergeometric
           | functions, maybe try reading [3] (as well as the tangentially
           | related book "A = B" [4]).
           | 
           | [1] https://www.cs.ru.nl/~freek/courses/mfocs-2012/risch/Inte
           | gra... [2] https://mathoverflow.net/questions/374089/does-
           | there-exist-a... [3]
           | https://www.math.ru.nl/~heckman/tsinghua.pdf [4]
           | https://www2.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/AeqB.html
        
       | mvdwoord wrote:
       | I found the text and workbooks for my mathematics courses at the
       | Open University in the Netherlands absolutely fantastic. They are
       | created / supervised by a famous (educational) mathematician in
       | NL named Jan van de Craats.
       | 
       | The method was designed for self study, and the absolute best I
       | had ever worked through. Perhaps material from other similar
       | institutes are of similar quality?
       | 
       | https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_van_de_Craats
        
       | coffeemug wrote:
       | I'm currently working through calculus. I picked up Spivak's and
       | Apostol's books-- probably the most recommended calc books on the
       | internet. Aaaand... they're ok. There are many parts that are
       | confusing, not because calculus is "hard", but because the
       | authors didn't do any user testing. If they actually reworked the
       | books to minimize real students struggling, the books would have
       | been much much easier to self-study from.
       | 
       | I eventually found David Galvin's calculus notes[1] from
       | University of Notre Dame. He basically follows Spivak closely,
       | but reorganized the material a bit in response to user testing.
       | The notes aren't perfect, but much much easier to follow. Same
       | experience with Terence Tao's linear algebra notes[2].
       | 
       | I think book authors, even very highly respect ones, often kind
       | of suck because they optimize for writing a beautiful book, not
       | for minimizing student confusion. Once you struggle through the
       | confusing parts, yes, the book is beautiful. But it's supposed to
       | be written for people to learn, not for experts to appreciate!
       | Notes written by professors who teach smart kids, optimize for
       | minimizing confusion, and do real user testing are often much
       | better than the best books, in my experience.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www3.nd.edu/~andyp/teaching/2020FallMath10850/Galvin...
       | 
       | [2] https://terrytao.wordpress.com/wp-
       | content/uploads/2016/12/li...
        
       | Jeff_Brown wrote:
       | Don't!
       | 
       | Faithfulness to a single source is the biggest reason I see for
       | failure In students. Be promiscuous. If a page, chapter, or even
       | whole book bores you, scan ahead, put it on trial for a bit, and
       | if it doesn't redeem itself quickly, replace it. The same goes
       | (to the extent possible) for courses, teachers and even whole
       | media. Only once you've tried the whole universe do you have
       | reason to lower your standards and try something again from that
       | universe that didn't meet your earlier ones. A book isn't a
       | friend. There are no brownie points for completion.
       | 
       | Also most subjects are like that too. If you really want to know
       | a natural language and hate the verb rules, focus on the rest of
       | the language. If you soak up the verbs more slowly you'll still
       | be hnderstandable, and you'll have fun, and most importantly you
       | won't give up.
       | 
       | And programming languages are _especially_ like this. Don 't like
       | class methods? Good! They suck anyway. Keep your functions pure.
       | Don't like generics? Well that's a shame but it didn't stop the
       | first many generations of Go programmers who couldn't use them if
       | they wanted to. Etc.
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | because the topic, textbooks, is pedagogic, when i read your
         | "Don't like class methods?" I thought the follow on was going
         | to be "find a new professor!"
        
         | 6keZbCECT2uB wrote:
         | In all seriousness, this seems to carry risk of never doing
         | anything deep or hard. In particular, I've been programming for
         | long enough, that I can be casual about many programming
         | languages until I hit something which is actually new, such as
         | in Rust or Prolog.
         | 
         | Promiscuous doesn't have to mean having a low tolerance for
         | difficulty, but everything else you wrote seems to support
         | that. So, are you saying that enduring difficulty is
         | unnecessary, or did you mean something different?
        
       | RheingoldRiver wrote:
       | My 2 cents on the topic is that for the most part I've had a lot
       | of success choosing what to be interested in based on good book
       | recommendations on the internet rather than looking for good book
       | recommendations on the internet based on what im interested in
       | 
       | If you're learning for fun, probably every topic in the history
       | of the universe can be interesting given the right approach
        
       | spoonfeeder006 wrote:
       | Ahhh, the good old gym analogy...
       | 
       | We use it
       | 
       | We love it
       | 
       | And it is our mainstay for understanding all things personally
       | growth related
       | 
       | Where would we be without it?
       | 
       | We would be lost in darkness and ignorance
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | I have a PhD in math and read many textbooks. The tried and true
       | approach: gather 20 books on the subject and read the first
       | couple pages of each. It should jump out to you right away which
       | one is the best for you.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-07-20 23:02 UTC)