[HN Gopher] SpreadsheetLLM - Microsoft's new AI system
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       SpreadsheetLLM - Microsoft's new AI system
        
       Author : amai
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2024-07-18 15:22 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | Ah yes, Excel, the piece of software that already famously
       | mangles data, is now going to be glued to software that also
       | famously mangles data.
       | 
       | Honestly, though, I kind of kid - I _love_ spreadsheets, and if
       | this _actually works_ , it could be interesting. God help whoever
       | needs to troubleshoot the hallucinated results - it's already
       | hard enough to figure out what byzantine knotwork someone created
       | using existing Excel functions, but now we'll have to also guess
       | and second-guess layers of prompts that were used to either
       | generate those same functions, or just generate output that got
       | mulched through some AI black-box.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Spreadsheets have such a way of making chaotic things more
         | clear. I wonder if there's any work on spreadsheets as a
         | multidimensional thinking tool
        
           | laborcontract wrote:
           | Indeed. I accidentally taught myself linear algebra through
           | spending a ridiculous amount of time in excel. I only
           | realized that after taking a linear algebra class and feeling
           | helpless.. until I mentally remapped the concepts into excel
           | space, after which it all became easy.
        
             | mettamage wrote:
             | Could you give an example?
        
               | laborcontract wrote:
               | Sure. So back in an old finance job I was given a whole
               | bunch of portfolio modeling spreadsheets that was a huge
               | mess of ad hoc column so which drove me nuts so
               | everything started with me learning how to use arrays,
               | which significantly reduced the complexity of basic data
               | transformations.
               | 
               | But then I wanted to analyze all our portfolio data over
               | time so i had to figure out then how handle multi
               | dimensionality in my spreadsheets. Then I figured out how
               | to integrate and transform and reduce portfolio
               | characteristics into sensible components for risk
               | management and portfolio optimizations across different
               | asset classes.
               | 
               | I figured out how to do some absolutely ridiculous stuff
               | in excel, it's tough for me to think of tools that
               | scratch the surface me if l that is nearly as good at
               | helping working through
        
       | surfingdino wrote:
       | I am calmly waiting for the SEC to rip them a new hole the size
       | of Manhattan when hallucinated spreadsheets inevitably make their
       | way into listed companies' reports.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Well you'll be waiting a very very long time.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | That would be on the companies (or their auditors), not
         | Microsoft, in general. Clearly, no-one should ever _use_ this,
         | should it ever make it out of research-land, but there's not
         | that much obvious risk to _making_ it as long as they're honest
         | about the risks.
        
           | SkyBelow wrote:
           | If it could spit out the analysis as spreadsheets that used
           | standard formulas and only use the LLM to generate the
           | formulas, it could be verified. Errors would slip through,
           | but no worse than people applying the wrong formula based on
           | a quick internet search that calculates a close but incorrect
           | answer.
        
       | bsenftner wrote:
       | I've found that all the top foundation models already understand
       | spreadsheets very well, as well as all the functions, as well as
       | all the common spreadsheet problems people run into using them.
       | The Internet is chock full spreadsheet support forums and
       | tutorials, and the foundation models have all been trained on
       | this data.
       | 
       | With not very much effort, one can explain to an LLM "here is a
       | spreadsheet, formatted as..." which takes about 150 word tokens,
       | and then not much more mental effort in your favorite language to
       | translate an arbitrary spreadsheet into that format, and one gets
       | a very capable LLM interface that can help explain complex
       | arbitrary spreadsheets as well as generate them on request.
       | 
       | I've got finance professionals and attorneys using a tool I wrote
       | doing this to help them understand and debug complex spreadsheets
       | given to them by peers and clients.
        
       | fimdomeio wrote:
       | Congratulations everyone, we can now automate the next global
       | financial crisis.
        
         | lainga wrote:
         | Now imagine an LLM trained on LLM web content. We call that an
         | AIslop-squared.
        
       | victor9000 wrote:
       | Why on earth would you task a non-deterministic technology with
       | data persistence?
        
       | ffhhj wrote:
       | Waiting for the hallucinate formula:
       | 
       | =HAL(9000)
        
       | chatmasta wrote:
       | At Databricks summit there was a nice presentation [0] by the CEO
       | of V7 labs who showed a demo of their LLM + Spreadsheet product.
       | 
       | The kneejerk reaction of "ugh, LLM and spreadsheet?!" is
       | understandable, but I encourage you to watch that demo. It makes
       | clear some obvious potentials of LLMs in spreadsheets. They can
       | basically be an advanced autofill. If you've used CoPilot in
       | VSCode, you understand the satisfaction of feeling like an LLM is
       | thinking one step ahead of you. This should be achievable in
       | spreadsheets as well.
       | 
       | [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=0SVilfbn-HY&t=1251 (queued to
       | demo at 20:51)
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | Thank you. Tired of the usual jokers in threads like this.
         | Right now the majority of comments are all sarcastic snark.
        
         | delusional wrote:
         | I don't think I understand that demo. It shows him using some
         | built-in workflow thing (which isn't generally considered a
         | core part of a spreadsheet) and then asks some LLM about the
         | total price (I guess asking it to do math, which LLM's are
         | notoriously bad at), but instead it looks like he gets some
         | responses telling him what the term "total price" means, in
         | prose that doesn't fit in the cells.
         | 
         | What was i supposed to take away from that demo?
        
           | jemmyw wrote:
           | The llm doesn't do the math. It outputs something the app
           | then interrupted into a cell configuration with sums filled
           | in. This is an area where llms can be quite good, you type
           | out how you want to report the data like "give me subtotals
           | of column F at every month of the date column E and a grand
           | total of F at the bottom"
           | 
           | Except sometimes you can't seem to stop the prose.
        
       | christianqchung wrote:
       | Goodness, I've been making a joke that AI companies are going to
       | spend 500 billion dollars to make spreadsheet generators since
       | 2023, and now it's becoming real. Gemini has a limited form of
       | this too.
        
       | galaxyLogic wrote:
       | How will it work?
       | 
       | I open an Excel spreadsheet and also the AI Copilot. Then
       | whenever I want to do something with Excel like "Show me which
       | cells have formulas" CoPilot will interact with Excel and issue
       | some command I cannot remember to do that for me?
       | 
       | Menus are good but often hard to navigate and find. So the
       | CoPilot can give me a whole new (prompt-based) user-interface to
       | any MS-application? Is that how it works?
        
       | skywhopper wrote:
       | Uhh, this is a paper about how to compress spreadsheet data to
       | fit inside an LLM's token limits, including such novel approaches
       | as ignoring exact values of numbers, meaning of data types, and
       | any context outside of a detected table of values.
       | 
       | The paper doesn't speak at all to actual uses of this approach,
       | but that doesn't stop the article writer from assuming this is
       | probably a big step towards automated tools that analyze
       | spreadsheet data for non-numerically inclined users.
       | 
       | This is not that.
        
       | jimkoen wrote:
       | @ludicity 's head is going to explode.
        
       | cyanydeez wrote:
       | DNA rEsearchers HAD TO STOP USING their preferrdd letter
       | sequences because excel would autocorrect its typs.
       | 
       | This.will not end. Well
        
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