[HN Gopher] The rise of the camera launched a fight to protect G...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The rise of the camera launched a fight to protect Gilded Age
       privacy
        
       Author : nickwritesit
       Score  : 129 points
       Date   : 2024-07-15 15:04 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | datameta wrote:
       | Our relationship with technology is an Escher staircase. Similar
       | thing happening anew with visual genAI.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | The idea of privacy has been thoroughly frustrated. Today,
       | there's no expectation of privacy any more, let alone "reasonable
       | expectation of privacy". Expecting privacy has become
       | unreasonable by definition.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | It has not yet become unreasonable by definition. Certain
         | powerful forces would like that to be the the case, and they
         | have been successful at moving things in that direction so far,
         | but they haven't succeeded yet.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | *in public
         | 
         | You have a reasonable right to privacy, e.g., in your home.
        
           | hanniabu wrote:
           | *As long as you don't own any internet-connected devices
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | How does that remove the right? Presumably one is making
             | the decision to connect these devices to the internet and
             | could simply decide differently.
        
               | mrsilencedogood wrote:
               | There gets to be a certain point where we simply have to
               | accept that while yes, technically one could simply not
               | own a TV (increasingly difficult to find a DumbTV as
               | opposed to a SmartTV with always-on microphone), any IOT
               | things, a smartphone, etc etc, we cannot reasonably
               | expect someone to not do this. Notably the smartphone,
               | which of the entire list of probably the worst offender,
               | second only to the TV perhaps because of the
               | ick/literally-1984 factor of your TV listening to you.
               | 
               | We practically can't expect people to do without a
               | smartphone. It's how people pay bills, bank, access
               | weather information, etc. And since it's the most-used
               | path, it's also the best-maintained path. Non-smartphone
               | alternatives have already rotted. Have you tried calling
               | into half of those bills you pay via QR code instead of
               | just scanning the code? Try it sometime.
               | 
               | Instead of telling people to just go live on a mountain
               | monastery in Tibet, we could instead simply eat our cake
               | AND have it by just regulating this stuff. Pass privacy
               | laws. Fine people who break them. Samsung, Google, etc
               | will comply rather than not continue to bathe in our ad
               | revenue.
        
               | commodoreboxer wrote:
               | It's really not that hard to have a smart TV and simply
               | not connect it to your network. They'll beg to connect,
               | but I haven't seen one that will refuse to function
               | without an internet connection.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | Our brand-new LG OLED doesn't even beg. It asked at setup
               | time, I selected "not in your marketing drone's wildest
               | dreams", it said "cool, bro", and hasn't bothered us in
               | the last two weeks.
               | 
               | We don't even see the TV's home screen. Just power on the
               | Xbox/Apple TV/whatever and HDMI CEC turns everything on
               | and sets inputs.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | FYI they sometimes share a connection via Ethernet-over-
               | HDMI.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | I am aware that HEC _exists_. Now show me a consumer
               | electronics device that actually uses it. None of my
               | devices advertise this feature.
        
               | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
               | It's not about telling people to live outside society but
               | instead to be more mindful of how they engage with it.
               | One can live in a city and not own a smart TV, nor a
               | smartphone, nor any IOT devices, etc., but that's not the
               | point I'm making. One can also just choose different
               | devices. Once someone gets to the point that they refuse
               | to buy the privacy-disrespecting device it's not much of
               | a stretch to start looking for a privacy-respecting
               | device.
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | > One can live in a city and not own a smart TV, nor a
               | smartphone
               | 
               | I believe parent's point is: no, one cannot. One cannot
               | live in a (modern Western urban) society and not have a
               | smartphone.
               | 
               | The people who do are now _living in a different
               | society,_ where, among other things:
               | 
               | - they have to plan to stop at a bank to take out
               | physical cash
               | 
               | - they have to schedule their days in an entirely
               | different method from their peers with smartphones
               | 
               | - they are less connected to opportunities and access to
               | government and private services because those services
               | come via smart devices and assume smart device ownership
               | 
               | Not to put too fine a point on it: there are restaurants
               | that give you a QR code instead of a paper menu now. Are
               | you and I living in the same society if I can order food
               | there and you can't?
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | You just enumerated some of the things people can do to
               | live without a smartphone, demonstrating it is possible
               | (albeit difficult).
               | 
               | I think we need to stop calling things "not possible"
               | just because they take effort and lifestyle changes to
               | accomplish.
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | I mean, one can live without a house too.
               | 
               | Perhaps we are just quibbling on definitions if we're
               | arguing about whether being homeless counts as living in
               | the same society as those with a permanent address.
               | 
               | The meta point is: government regulates housing because
               | it's something "everybody" (modulo outliers) does: live
               | in a house. If "everybody" (modulo outliers) owns a
               | smartphone and smartphone ownership is assumed for full
               | societal participation... We probably need to regulate
               | it.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Also this take is not great because your privacy is also
               | dictated by the people around you that have smartphones
               | and are listening to you.
        
               | talldayo wrote:
               | > but instead to be more mindful of how they engage with
               | it.
               | 
               | This is like the recycling debate all over again.
               | Fundamentally we agree with you; littering is bad, the
               | diminishing of privacy is bad, and none of us should feel
               | hopeless about a situation we are capable of changing.
               | 
               | But consider the average person, not me or you or the
               | hackers. Someone who opts for convenience, not "mindful
               | engagement" for the slightest of interactions with the
               | world. _They_ do not care. Fundamentally they cannot be
               | _made_ to care, even if we show them posters of the Earth
               | burning or make them hear about the Snowden leaks. They
               | consider themselves to be powerless, and _will not_
               | consider an alternative unless it is as convenient as
               | what they 're addicted to now. They're not going to buy
               | respectful TVs because they're not the cheap ones.
               | They're not going to buy respectful phones because it
               | doesn't have the little Apple logo on the back that their
               | friends love so much. The average person _literally_
               | cannot be made to care unless we make privacy-respecting
               | software easier to use than spyware.
        
               | throwway120385 wrote:
               | And because of how markets work, that person who doesn't
               | care is dictating what is available to us.
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | > unless we make privacy-respecting software easier to
               | use than spyware
               | 
               | This point is key.
               | 
               | I don't use an Android instead of a Pinephone because I
               | don't care. I use an Android because Pinephone sucks
               | right now, and I can't be hacking on the device I need to
               | rely on to schedule my bank payments and call the
               | emergency services if I fall in a ravine. That device has
               | to be five-nines trustworthy.
               | 
               | The solution is going to have to be make Pinephone suck
               | less. That's the _only_ way to mass adoption and actually
               | changing the landscape.
               | 
               | Music piracy didn't get its back broken by a sudden
               | global attack of conscience. It got its back broken by
               | iTunes making it more convenient to get music-to-
               | portable-device than running a torrent server.
        
               | ryandv wrote:
               | > But consider the average person, not me or you or the
               | hackers.
               | 
               | Forget the average person - even as a technically adept
               | person who has tried to "mindfully engage" with
               | technology and minimize his use of it as much as is
               | reasonably possible, the way our societies in the west
               | are structured are making it increasingly difficult to
               | participate in the world without plugging yourself into
               | the surveillance borg. Examples abound even in this
               | thread - QR codes to order food; needing to ask concierge
               | to call you a Lyft because taxis are nonexistent in the
               | neighbourhood and you aren't carrying a smartphone.
               | 
               | There is so much friction involved in living life with
               | minimal technology that you are placing yourself at a
               | significant disadvantage and living your life less
               | efficiently than others by needing to make compromises or
               | forego certain amenities entirely. While it is possible
               | to live life like this and eschew such creature comforts,
               | it becomes exhausting after several years of doing so,
               | and there is no indication that the tides will turn or
               | the winds will begin blowing in the other direction. You
               | can continue swimming upstream for naught and at great
               | disadvantage to yourself, but it will not change the
               | direction of the current. If anything, the pandemic and
               | work-from-home has only accelerated the trend, with the
               | invasion of Internet-connected surveillance devices into
               | one's private quarters now made mandatory in order to
               | participate in the workforce.
        
               | BolexNOLA wrote:
               | I don't think it's reasonable to say "just don't have
               | internet connected devices at all" in 2024. This falls
               | too far into "caveat emptor" territory for my tastes. We
               | all need to be informed and responsible but the burden of
               | creating a totally disconnected-from-the-internet house
               | (except for your core devices like phones/laptops) is
               | actually pretty substantial and gets harder every year.
               | Hell it's becoming a problem with cars.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | I worry the normalization of Internet-connectedness in
               | "smart devices" in the eyes of the public will lead to
               | regulation of these devices for "privacy reasons" while
               | offering no real privacy guarantees.
               | 
               | I think the drive for "privacy respect" in devices should
               | really be an effort to push manufacturers toward making
               | devices that work without Internet-connectivity. I think
               | everybody technical who cares about privacy should beat
               | this drum to all their friends, family, etc, to vote with
               | their wallets.
               | 
               | Standalone devices make a stronger privacy guarantee than
               | the alternative.
               | 
               | "Connected" devices that offer "privacy" rely on the
               | compliance of the companies who run the servers for the
               | devices. It also means they can't get breached, either.
        
               | ryandv wrote:
               | What say you of all the remote workers who now need such
               | devices in order to do their work from home? Should they
               | decide to return to office?
        
               | tempodox wrote:
               | Having the right to privacy on paper doesn't mean you get
               | it in practice.
        
               | EasyMark wrote:
               | It time we revisit "basic human rights" and emphasize
               | privacy as part of those, and revamp laws to reflect
               | that. Companies can still have ads and send out fliers in
               | the mail. They don't need to know every move we make,
               | website we visit, what we buy, etc. They have no right to
               | that and it causes a lot of damage to society and mental
               | health while only rewarding the company and no one else.
        
         | pojntfx wrote:
         | > Expecting privacy has become unreasonable by definition.
         | 
         | *in the US that is. Basically everywhere else, esp. Europe, has
         | been moving into the complete opposite direction here. There is
         | _more_ privacy rights - and recourse, like the right to delete
         | - then there has been at any point in the past.
        
           | parasense wrote:
           | Yeah, Europe has an interesting way of maintaining legal
           | fictions.
           | 
           | The geographical naming rights is one such thing. Anybody
           | anywhere can make any kind of cheese, but one cannot say the
           | cheese is parmesian (or any other given example) cheese
           | without being located in a certain region. There was a
           | famouse case where a cheese maker in itally opened a new
           | factory on the other sside of town which happened to be
           | across the lambardi river, and suddenly they were no longer
           | able to say that cheese was whatever kind of cheese...
           | 
           | That is just one example of many... why legal fictions are
           | bad arguments in Europe, and don't work internationally. One
           | cannot demand other people unsee things they have seen (wipe
           | their brain memory), and so it goes it's equally unjust to
           | demand other people delete photos of them they have seen and
           | recorded in photos.
           | 
           | It's a lot more nuanced than that, and in some cases the
           | privacy ideas are fully justified, but you get the idea....
           | there cannot be absolutism in either direction.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | just consider parmesan to be a protected trademark owned by
             | the people living in that area.
             | 
             | should they not have the right to protect their trademark?
        
         | dnissley wrote:
         | There is a reasonable expectation of privacy. But we should
         | distinguish between "privacy" with no qualifiers, and "digital
         | privacy" which is a whole other thing. Some people see an
         | equivalence. Others do not.
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | What's the difference?
        
             | dnissley wrote:
             | One relates to what people do in their own homes. The other
             | relates to things people do on the internet.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | The blurring of the line between "in your own home" and
               | "on the Internet" is the crux of the issue. The average
               | person doesn't understand that bringing Internet-
               | connected devices into their home makes some quantity of
               | "behavior in their home" into "behavior on the Internet".
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Application developers are deliberately trying to blur
               | the line, too, in their user interface. How many users
               | really grok that when they use iCloud syncing with their
               | photos, they are uploading their photos to the Internet?
               | 
               | Since many of us grew up before and then after the
               | Internet, we kind of instinctively get what application
               | functionality needs the Internet, what functionality
               | doesn't, what gets written to the Internet, what gets
               | read from the Internet and so on. Younger computer/phone
               | users don't get this at all. My 11 year old has no mental
               | picture of why X requires Internet and Y doesn't require
               | Internet. She doesn't understand the concept of Data A is
               | stored on-device, and Data B is stored on the Internet.
               | And honestly, I'm even having a harder and harder time
               | explaining it. Tech applications have totally blurred and
               | grayed the previously black-and-white line.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > Expecting privacy has become unreasonable by definition.
         | 
         | Hard disagree. The only unreasonable expectation is that you
         | could go out in public and not be seen at all. It is entirely
         | reasonable to expect not to be tracked, doxxed, etc.
         | 
         | I would like to put the brakes on the idea that just because we
         | _can_ do something, it is _okay_ to do it. The law was written
         | when computers, networking, smartphones, and high resolution
         | digital cameras did not exist. We could easily conclude that
         | every bit of surveillance technology that did not exist in e.g.
         | 1950 is illegal until explicitly permitted by law. Certain
         | organizations would like to gaslight us into thinking that is
         | impossible, that the cat is out of the bag so to speak. I do
         | not agree. We can do it.
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | the opposite is true.
         | 
         | as the article shows, according to the law of the time there
         | was no right to privacy, and photos were not protected until
         | the public protested and the laws were changed.
         | 
         | likewise today any expectation of privacy is a matter of
         | opinion. just because laws do not sufficiently protect our
         | privacy, does not mean that we should give up any expectation
         | of privacy. on the contrary, we need to demand better
         | protection from out lawmakers. vote accordingly
        
       | batch12 wrote:
       | This seems analogous to how large companies now scrape user-
       | generated content to train their language models for profit.
        
         | unraveller wrote:
         | The lack of clear conclusion suggests a new likeness misuse
         | wave is coming though I doubt it.
         | 
         | AI's super power is melding many styles to better effect. My
         | scraped up social media artworks are being considered to such a
         | minuscule degree by the LLM that my likeness is lost unless
         | someone tries to hone in and pass it off as me by legacy means.
         | 
         | None of this is worth upsetting the delicate balance of public
         | journalism vs privacy laws as the article alludes to.
        
           | batch12 wrote:
           | The concern I have is less around using emulating a work and
           | more around not compensating or crediting those whose work
           | has been taken to enrich these companies.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | How many writers and artists and scientists do you suppose
             | have been "borrowed" from over time?
        
       | ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote:
       | The throwaway line in TFA about village life and the section
       | about common law recognizing no right to privacy both highlight
       | my thoughts on this. In prior years we didn't have cameras
       | preserving all our moments in 4K for all time, but as humans we
       | had so little happening in our hamlets/villages, that most of our
       | neighbors knew everything about us and all of our individual
       | actions were never forgotten. Just like how you still remember
       | all the embarrassing things different kids at your high school
       | did (for me, 20+ years later). Life in a village was likely that
       | same dynamic but for a person's whole life, not just high school
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Yeah, the scale of things is different but the idea that
         | everyone in your town (or your social circles) didn't know more
         | or less everything about you is counterfactual.
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | I only remember the embarrassing things _I_ did. And because I
         | graduated in the pager era there are very few photographs to
         | remind me of what I have forgotten.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | We did not need a strict law about privacy when the only way to
         | surveil and preserve information was to use your eyes and
         | brain. And given that everyone tends to be their own main
         | character, even that level of preservation was not terribly
         | effective.
         | 
         | The rise of computers and the ability to record things in near
         | perfect fidelity is a problem. I hope we can get a handle on it
         | before it gets much worse.
        
           | whstl wrote:
           | Maybe we need to start preserving those things in AI neural
           | nets so they are a bit fuzzy and slightly inaccurate!
        
             | plussed_reader wrote:
             | Ah, proprietary recollection! Surely that won't engender an
             | entire middle-man economy.
        
           | maxwell wrote:
           | > the ability to record things in near perfect fidelity is a
           | problem
           | 
           | Ancient Egyptians and Romans would seem to have relished such
           | a problem.
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | And if you move away (to escape your past or for other
         | reasons), any new village you move to will treat you as a
         | tolerated outsider for 20+ years because you didn't go to the
         | same kindergarten as them.
        
           | o11c wrote:
           | And, by and large, they were _right to do so_. In the absence
           | of a very strong central government, the only way to protect
           | yourself from criminals (or other social problems) is to
           | assume _all_ outsiders are problematic.
           | 
           | Allowing "escape your past" is generally not socially
           | desirable.
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | Another critical shift in the last ~120 years is the ease with
         | which private information can be productized.
         | 
         | I say 120 years because I believe the Kodak Brownie No. 2 was
         | the inflection point. Other film cameras existed before that
         | point, but did not have user-replaceable film - you would
         | return the whole camera to Kodak and they'd send you back
         | prints and a new camera.
         | 
         | Thus, before the Brownie No. 2, the camera's owner had never
         | posessed the _negative itself_. For the first time, an
         | indisputably real account of an event could be reproduced over
         | and over, on demand, with a low financial barrier to entry, and
         | in any shape or size the negative 's owner could imagine.
         | 
         | Obviously, the internet age has come with its own staggering
         | paradigm shifts. Sure, private information may not be more
         | sensitive than it ever was. But, it is easier than ever before
         | to distribute it for profit.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | Yeah, there are important qualitative differences between the
           | steps of:
           | 
           | 1. Neighbor X _claims_ they saw {embarrassing thing}
           | 
           | 2. Neighbor X has objective proof that the event occurred
           | 
           | 3. Here's a picture of the event
           | 
           | 4. Here's a picture which is endlessly duplicable and
           | broadcastable
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | My issue is this. Or, more specifically, I think the actual
           | privacy invasion doesn't come from the use of cameras, it
           | comes from the use of databases.
           | 
           | I honestly don't care even a little if I happen to appear in
           | (or even are the subject of) a random photo taken by a
           | regular person. I care a lot if I appear in a commercially-
           | operated snapshot/video.
           | 
           | The difference is that a regular person probably isn't going
           | to include that photo/video and related metadata in a
           | database where it will be combined with the contents of other
           | databases and weaponized against me.
           | 
           | Yes, I know they may upload it to Facebook and such, where it
           | is weaponized. That does bother me, but I choose to ignore
           | that part except to make sure that my friends and family
           | don't do it.
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | > I care a lot if I appear in a commercially-operated
             | snapshot/video.
             | 
             | This is where likeness rights come into place. A commercial
             | entity can't use your image as an endorsement of their
             | product or in marketing materials without your consent,
             | which is why many production companies err on the side of
             | making sure they vet every face in every image of their
             | marketing material.
             | 
             | > The difference is that a regular person probably isn't
             | going to include that photo/video and related metadata in a
             | database where it will be combined with the contents of
             | other databases and weaponized against me.
             | 
             | As you said in the next paragraph, this is impossible to
             | prevent without stripping people of their copyrights to use
             | their work however they please, including by sharing on
             | social media or uploading to a extremely value-oriented
             | service (like Google Photos) that only provides their
             | services for free/cheap because of the value they get from
             | being able to "improve the product" using user content.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > This is where likeness rights come into place.
               | 
               | I don't see how likeness rights apply. I'm not talking
               | about my image being used in marketing materials.
               | 
               | > this is impossible to prevent without stripping people
               | of their copyrights to use their work
               | 
               | That's not a copyright issue. Copyright allows you to
               | restrict how others use your works, it says nothing about
               | how _you_ use your works.
               | 
               | I think you're talking about free speech rights here, and
               | free speech rights have never been, will never be, and
               | shouldn't be, absolute. There are many cases where those
               | rights (like all rights) need to be balanced against
               | other contradictory rights.
        
           | doctorpangloss wrote:
           | Other than targeted advertising, how has private (I think you
           | meant personally identifiable) information been productized?
           | 
           | The only examples I can think of is auto insurers buying your
           | vehicle usage data, and creditors buying your borrowing data.
           | I don't know if cameras or the Internet has anything to do
           | with either case.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | Political parties buying your browsing/buying habits to hit
             | you up with political ads. Police buying your location data
             | to see whether your were near a crime. Insurance companies
             | will soon be buying data about your exercise routines so
             | they can adjust your rates accordingly.
             | 
             | And then there are the really creepy services. There was a
             | service not long ago in Russia that would allow you to
             | upload a picture of any woman you saw on the street. They
             | would identify the face (via VK) and provide you with their
             | contact and job information. Totally creepy. Totally
             | abusive. But easily done with basic tech.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FindFace
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | There is a huge difference between people in your village, that
         | you grew up with, knowing a lot about you, and strangers from
         | halfway around the world knowing things about your personal
         | life.
        
         | Hasu wrote:
         | > Life in a village was likely that same dynamic but for a
         | person's whole life, not just high school
         | 
         | One BIG difference between high school and ordinary life is
         | that high school is filled with a bunch of adolescents who are
         | forced to be in a place where there isn't much to do for fun
         | other than gossip about the other adolescents. Given that
         | adolescence is a time when humans are maximally embarrassing
         | and maximally interested in other adolescents' embarrassment, I
         | don't think it's a good model for general life.
         | 
         | People in small towns and villages today do not act like high
         | schoolers, and they are perfectly capable of keeping secrets
         | from each other. You don't need a legally enshrined right to
         | privacy when your most dangerous threat model is Fred down the
         | street who is a nosy twerp.
        
       | cxr wrote:
       | Previously: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40859854>
       | 
       | 9 (13) days ago. 46 points. 8-ish comments.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40900087
         | 
         | 7 days ago
        
       | belter wrote:
       | The pioneer of DeepFakes... "Anthony Comstock--the anti-obscenity
       | crusader after whom the 1873 Comstock Act is named--had arrested
       | an amateur photographer for selling manually photoshopped
       | pictures that placed "the heads of innocent women on the undraped
       | bodies of other females." "
        
         | apantel wrote:
         | Some things you can count on to never change and always be new
         | again.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | I wonder if anybody's found any ancient sculptures where one
           | kind of bust was swapped onto another, er, _another_ kind of
           | bust. :p
           | 
           | Or further back: "Zog, why you paint other head on cave-wall
           | of fertility goddess!?"
        
       | jodrellblank wrote:
       | The real non-story in the article is describing the downright
       | awful behaviour of advertisers and marketers, and trying to say
       | the problem is cameras.
       | 
       | > " _By 1905, less than 20 years after the first Kodak camera
       | debuted, Eastman's company had sold 1.2 million devices_ "
       | 
       | Smartphones today sell that many roughly every 9 hours[1]. Add
       | laptops, tablets, quadcopter drones, dashcams, doorbells, CCTV
       | cameras, compact cameras, DSLRs, cars with builtin cameras. I
       | think we're still at the early days of cameras changing the
       | world. "The future is here but it's not evenly distributed yet";
       | twenty years ago, Flickr and YouTube were founded. There's almost
       | nothing you can't see online or on TV now: any activity, any
       | place, any thing, especially including the minutiae of other
       | people's lives and inside their homes from the luxurious to the
       | impoverished, ostentatious or humble, everyday or holiday,
       | there's countless photos and videos of it.
       | 
       | Want to see a driver's view of a tram or truck or bus journey in
       | a foreign city? A trip on a luxury train or a remote mountain
       | top? A helicopter flight, a submarine trip, Australian outback or
       | Thai food stalls? People sitting on their couch watching TV and
       | chatting about it, someone angrily ranting from their kitchen,
       | people cooking food and eating it, people at work or relaxing,
       | the insides of factories offices public places or government
       | buildings, rare equipment and devices, museums, you-seeums, no-
       | seeums up close; do you want voyeurism, inspiration, exploration,
       | drama, tranquility, nature, disaster, ingenuity, warzone or
       | poorzone, languages, opinions, the mundane, or the joys of
       | propane?
       | 
       | You can find it, you can see it - you can drown in endlessly
       | scrolling it, it can be tuned to your interests or sought on a
       | whim - but you can't _have it_ through a screen.
       | 
       | it will take more than 20 years for the effects on society to
       | fully happen.
       | 
       | [1] Roughly 1.2Bn/year, ~100M/month,
       | https://www.statista.com/statistics/263437/global-smartphone...
        
       | bgoated01 wrote:
       | "...arrested an amateur photographer for selling manually
       | photoshopped pictures..."
       | 
       | Am I the only one who finds the phrase "manually photoshopped" in
       | an article about the late 1800s to early 1900s amusingly
       | anochronistic? How about "manually doctored" or even "altered"?
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | I made the same comment but got flagged for my clumsy phrasing.
         | I got a good laugh out of it. I couldn't tell if it was a
         | subtle joke, or a confused young author + lapse in editing.
        
         | 13of40 wrote:
         | That one's kind of come full circle, though, since a "photo
         | shop" was a place you could go to get photos printed, altered,
         | etc. since the late 1800s.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | But was it ever attested as a one-word verb before Photoshop-
           | the-software existed?
           | 
           | That would be a fascinating artifact of "skeumorphic"
           | software naming.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Shall all amusing text fall at the hands of the machine mind?
         | Is there to be no fun in this universe?
        
         | kmoser wrote:
         | While "photoshop" may have entered the current vernacular, it's
         | annoying (maybe even misleading?) in the context of this
         | article because I doubt Comstock used "photoshopped" as a verb.
         | More to the point, we still have verbs like "edited,"
         | "retouched," and "altered" that just as accurately describe the
         | process, are more likely to have been used at the time, and are
         | still understood by everybody today (believe it or not, there
         | are people who don't know what Photoshop is, and wouldn't
         | understand it as a verb).
        
         | briankelly wrote:
         | We do kinda take it for granted when old terms are re-adapted
         | to the new technology - for instance "splicing" video clips in
         | something like iMovie. It's rarer to see it the other way
         | around but I'm not sure it's any worse. Today you probably are
         | less likely to say "doctored" or "edited" for that kind of
         | manipulation described than you are "photoshopped."
        
         | Nition wrote:
         | Just like how in WWII, the Bombe programmers manually Visual
         | Studioed the Enigma code.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | Does Facebook still use your pictures in ads?
       | 
       | Article form ~10yr ago: https://mashable.com/archive/facebook-
       | ads-photo#ggcKnNfAUaqy
        
       | RyanAdamas wrote:
       | Exclusion through technological adherence.
        
       | rjurney wrote:
       | I love articles that completely dispel the idea of singularity -
       | that point out that the feeling of our age that things are
       | changing too quickly has been around for a very long time.
        
         | jappgar wrote:
         | It doesn't dispel the idea that things are changing too
         | quickly. It reinforces that we are engaged in a never ending
         | battle against exploitation and enslavement.
        
         | jrussino wrote:
         | Yeah, I think with all major technological advancements we end
         | up with logistic "S-curve" type growth, with a steep rise
         | followed by an eventual plateau. At the start it can look like
         | exponential growth heading toward a singularity, but that's
         | just not realistic and growth always slows down and levels out
         | eventually. Based on the degree and timescale though the two
         | cases my feel pretty indistinguishable for individuals.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | I think what has changed the most about our relationship with
           | technology now a days compared to prehistory is the overall
           | incentives for technology changing. It used to be technology
           | had to actually improve something to be adopted. A bow and
           | arrow was superior to throwing a stone, so it was adopted on
           | merit. Sowing seed and animal husbandry was superior to
           | migrating around seasonal harvest from uncultivated flora and
           | game, so it was also adopted on merit. No one was marketing
           | this shift.
           | 
           | Meanwhile we have a lot of technology where its only
           | incentive is not to be thermodynamically easier to an
           | alternative, but to make someone money. Sometimes the
           | technology is even less efficient than the alternative, but
           | its perpetuated and expanded and iterated upon because it is
           | so lucrative. I think once we hit this point with technology
           | is when the singularity really kicked off. Not recently or in
           | the future but potentially in the time of Ea-Nasir and his
           | ingots.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | The singularity was already underway by this point.
        
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