[HN Gopher] Show HN: Resurrecting a dead Dune RTS game
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Resurrecting a dead Dune RTS game
        
       Author : wheybags
       Score  : 333 points
       Date   : 2024-07-13 19:00 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wheybags.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wheybags.com)
        
       | smcin wrote:
       | 'Emperor: Battle for Dune', a 2001 RTS game by Westwood Studios,
       | essentially a Dune-themed 'Command & Conquer'.
       | 
       | Play as one of the three main factions: House Atreides,
       | Harkonnen, or the (non-canon) Ordos.
       | 
       | https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor:_Battle_for_Dune
        
         | romanhn wrote:
         | The original C&C was in fact based on Dune II, the OG RTS game
         | that came out in 1992. The cutscenes from Dune II are still
         | burned into my memory, what a great game it was.
        
           | nick__m wrote:
           | Dune II was so great for a 11yo !
        
           | elric wrote:
           | "The planet Arrakis, known as Dune. Land of sand. Home of the
           | spice melange. The spice controls the empire. Whoever
           | controls Dune controls the spice. The emperor has proposed a
           | challenge to each of the houses. The house that produces the
           | most spice will control Dune. There are no set territories
           | and no rules of engagement. Vast armies have arrived. Now
           | three houses fight for control of Dune. The noble Atreides.
           | The insidious Ordos. And the evil Harkonnen. Only one house
           | will prevail. Your battle for Dune begins now..."
           | 
           | Just thinking about the soundtrack to that most excellent
           | game gives me goosebumps. Fond memories there.
        
       | grafelic wrote:
       | Very interesting and in depth article. I really appreciate the
       | amount of detail and knowledge shared about how to go about
       | reverse enginnering and patching abandonware like this. Thank
       | you. Saw the game in a local thrift store, but left it be, since
       | I only played Dune II rts. I will pick it up for sure now.
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | I wonder if it would run under Wine?
        
       | bbor wrote:
       | This is the most amazing things I've seen in ages, very
       | exciting!! I'm very far from the technical work here, but I
       | appreciate how approachable you made it. Can't wait to try it
       | when I get home!
        
       | lmz wrote:
       | I wonder if they can use manifests / registration-free COM to
       | avoid the registry dependency of the online component.
        
         | wheybags wrote:
         | I did come across some mentions of that, but it sounded like
         | you would need to configure it at build time. If you know of a
         | way to do it with a pre-existing binary that wasn't designed
         | with that in mind I'd be very interested.
        
           | lmz wrote:
           | In theory the manifest could be external (app.exe ->
           | app.exe.manifest; lib.dll -> lib.dll.manifest), but you
           | already seem to be patching the binary so maybe embedding it
           | directly as a resource wouldn't hurt. Ref:
           | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
           | us/windows/win32/SbsCs/assemb... and
           | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
           | us/windows/win32/SbsCs/applic...
        
             | cshokie wrote:
             | I came here to also post about regfree COM. If you can get
             | it to work that seems like the ideal solution.
             | 
             | See https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
             | us/windows/win32/sbscs/creati...
             | 
             | "Activation contexts enable COM objects to be used without
             | requiring that they be registered."
        
           | Kerbiter wrote:
           | This is how we avoided COM registration for Blowfish in YR,
           | maybe this well help you.
           | 
           | https://github.com/Phobos-
           | developers/Phobos/blob/develop/src...
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Great article, wish I could go out for a night on the town with
       | the author, I feel like they're pretty darn fun and intelligent.
       | 
       | The cute expandable explanations are just the bee's knees, and
       | also useful. I felt like I was playing some sort of choose your
       | own adventure RPG just reading TFA, which was a new kind of
       | experience.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | p.s. re: _> CS:GO, which was only retired in 2023_
       | 
       | I thought CS:GO was rebranded to CS2. Am I mistaken? (very
       | probably, yes, pretty please enlighten me!)
        
         | tslocum wrote:
         | CS2 is considered by some to be a downgrade compared to CS:GO
         | (yours truly included). I have heard reports of tournament PCs
         | being unable to hold a decent FPS in CS2, whereas they worked
         | great with CS:GO. You can find many user reports sharing
         | similar results, even with higher-end PCs.
         | 
         | Valve wants CS2 to be seen as the continuation of CS:GO, and
         | instead of making a better game to replace it naturally, they
         | forced the change on their playerbase. I, and others, will be
         | bitter about this for some time, as CS:GO is an excellent game.
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | Their CS2 "server browser" is kinda disgraceful, especially
           | considering that the game was carried for decades on custom
           | maps and mods.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | Remember GameSpy? Oh man.
        
               | kchr wrote:
               | Not to mention All-Seeing Eye!
        
           | doix wrote:
           | Complaining about the new CS is tradition. When go came out,
           | people said source was better. When source came out, people
           | said 1.6 was better. They changed bunny hopping and AWP quick
           | scoping somewhere around 1.3-1.5 and people said the previous
           | version was better.
           | 
           | Although I guess in this case they _forced_ people to change,
           | which sucks. Let the niche communities keep playing the
           | version they like. I guess it's because it's a live service
           | game and they need to keep selling their loot boxes.
        
             | Sesse__ wrote:
             | And I do vividly recall someone saying that the later CS
             | betas had lag-compensating things that were unfair, and
             | invited others to play beta 1, "where you actually hit what
             | you aim at"!
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | CS2 was uploaded under the same application ID as CS:GO, but
         | they remade the entire thing in a new engine. It is not a
         | rebrand.
        
         | AHTERIX5000 wrote:
         | CS2 uses Source 2 engine with DX11 or Vulkan renderer in
         | contrast to old, Source 1 based CS:GO.
        
       | binary132 wrote:
       | I am really stoked about this actually, I thought it could not
       | happen
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | Hats off. Amazing effort. Great read. I haven't used IDA on a
       | game in a long while and this is next level effort. Bravo.
        
       | tonfreed wrote:
       | The soundtrack he links to reminds me of a game from the 90s
       | called 7th Legion. It was average at best, but the music was
       | killer
        
         | Klaster_1 wrote:
         | Totally agree. Back in those days, I played the game for a
         | couple of hours at best, but the soundtrack has stayed in my
         | music library for decades, what a masterpiece!
        
       | personjerry wrote:
       | Any chance to port this to mac? :)
        
         | Rinzler89 wrote:
         | It's ~50 bucks for a second hand X86 laptop that can run this
         | game (less than an Apple thunderbolt cable), if you actually
         | want to play it now, instead of waiting for a Mac port to fall
         | out of the sky.
        
         | wheybags wrote:
         | Highly unlikely I'm afraid :(
        
       | chaostheory wrote:
       | On a related note, there is a modern Dune RTS on steam
       | 
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1605220/Dune_Spice_Wars/
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | It's pretty good, too!
        
           | dalanmiller wrote:
           | Yeah this isn't an RTS at all. As someone else said
           | definitely more of a 4X with very minimal realtime troop
           | movement.
        
         | 8372049 wrote:
         | Calling it an RTS is a stretch. It's more of a 4X game. It has
         | a low pace and combat isn't particularly important.
        
       | evanjrowley wrote:
       | I loved this game very much. Best soundtrack of any Westwood
       | Studios game. So glad it's still playable.
        
         | imp0cat wrote:
         | I totally missed this one! I went from Dune 2 straight to C&C.
        
       | TechDebtDevin wrote:
       | Damn, what if we don't have any access to a physical copy of the
       | game?
        
         | lewispollard wrote:
         | There's a certain organisation on the internet where certain
         | things are archived.
        
       | renegat0x0 wrote:
       | There still appears to be existing a fan page
       | 
       | https://dune2k.com/Duniverse/Games/Emperor
        
       | Kerbiter wrote:
       | That's a great writeup and a great effort! Perhaps we could
       | integrate with your efforts at CnCNet somehow. Come hang out with
       | us on CnCNet :)
        
       | cmcaleer wrote:
       | This game actually holds a ton of significance for the RTS genre
       | as a whole. A very typical view of the RTS genre is that you have
       | peasants who harvest resources that you gave to protect, and the
       | Dune RTS was a real progenitor in this.
       | 
       | But it was only like that because of the book. Were it not like
       | that, maybe RTS as a genre would have gone down a different path.
       | Maybe it's inevitable that it would have eventually gone down the
       | path that it took eventually, but there's a good chance that it
       | would have been unrecognisable. Maybe you'd have gotten resources
       | by just harvesting your base's resources instead so opponents
       | would have harassed you by harassing your buildings instead.
       | Maybe there would have been different bonuses for map control
       | other than better access to resources.
        
         | RichardLake wrote:
         | To be clear the article isn't about Dune 2; it is about
         | Emperor: Battle for Dune.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | I think that maybe it would've always been like that. History
         | sort of leans on the peasant as resource base, ruler as
         | strategist trope.
         | 
         | While Dune itself is like that, so is all of history.
        
       | Sesse__ wrote:
       | Very nice post! I did something related to this a decade back,
       | except it was for Tiberian Sun and to patch its networking code.
       | Jumping into other people's code like this is like having a
       | shared connection in a sense. I noticed to my horror that there
       | was a completely separate stack for modem play; it wasn't like
       | they just sent TCP/IP over the modem or something. Some poor soul
       | must have spent months of their life writing all this custom code
       | for framing and syncing and error handling (what happens if the
       | connection goes down and you have to re-dial, etc.?). Which was
       | irrelevant almost already when the game originally came out.
        
         | bikson wrote:
         | I think that was for another reason. IMO sole purpose was
         | calling t the another modem not connecting to the internet via
         | dial up. I never use this but a lot ofbold games Has those
         | option.
        
           | Sesse__ wrote:
           | Yes, obviously. Direct dial-up plus local serial cable.
        
       | le-mark wrote:
       | > UI design is my passion.
       | 
       | So great, I really miss writing like this. Reminds me of Steve
       | Yegge blog posts, among others.
        
       | herodoturtle wrote:
       | > It's got a 28.8 BPS modem
       | 
       |  _Active matrix, man. A million psychedelic colors._
        
         | 42lux wrote:
         | _RISC architecture is going to change everything._
        
       | Log_out_ wrote:
       | The idea that modern add-HD riddled and pay to win shovelware
       | gets defeated by old classics is deeply entertaining to me. Just
       | one hacker helping.. and the audience would drive the crapware
       | out of town on a rail. Almost like good things of the past in an
       | eternal medium will always outcompete mediocre things of the
       | present.
        
       | hyperman1 wrote:
       | I see this kind of note regularly in blog posts:
       | This is probably a good time to mention that I am not a skilled
       | reverse engineer.
       | 
       | Nope. You've walked the walk, you've earned the right to talk the
       | talk. We're all building experience as we go.
       | 
       | You're now at least a junior reverse engineer, and seeing the
       | size of this project, you can even drop the junior as far as I'm
       | concerned. Enjoy!
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | IMHO the difference between "skilled" or not is whether you
         | know where to look for help without causing more problems, and
         | even more importantly: _when_ to look for help. Documentation
         | might be all the help you need, and reading documentation
         | definitely makes you skilled, but plenty of people don 't know
         | how to search for it!
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Since it's now abandonware, you can download Emperor: Battle for
       | Dune from archive.org directly or via torrent:
       | 
       | https://archive.org/details/EmperorBattleForDuneUSAEurope
       | 
       | (For others who, like me, want to try this game out with the
       | wheybags patch :)
       | 
       | Just for fun, I also dug up the past pirate releases:
       | releaseName                                              TYPE
       | releaseDate
       | -------------------------------------------------------  --------
       | -------------------       Emperor_Battle_for_Dune_v1_06_Update-
       | RAZoRDOX            GAMES     2001-06-21 00:00:00
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune.Update.v1.07.Cracked-MYTH        DOX
       | 2001-06-30 16:16:43
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune.All.Level.Saves-EyM              0DAY
       | 2001-07-10 12:07:49
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune.Update.v1.08.Cracked-MYTH        DOX
       | 2001-08-17 08:17:39
       | Emperor.Battle.For.Dune.Update.v1.09.Cracked-MYTH        DOX
       | 2001-10-06 06:04:21
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune.Update.v1.06.Cracked-MYTH        DOX
       | 2003-07-11 22:33:37       Emperor-Battle_For_Dune-NORDiC-DOX-
       | RUSDOX                DOX       2003-07-11 22:33:45
       | Emperor.Battle.For.Dune.Poradnik.POLiSH.PDF.eBook-KiOSK  BOOKWARE
       | 2006-03-10 01:48:50       Emperor.Battle.For.Dune.Money.Trainer-
       | FLTDOX             DOX       2006-10-10 21:52:25
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune.v1.06.Update-RAZoRDOX            0DAY
       | 2006-10-10 21:52:30       Emperor_Battle_For_Dune_Money_Trainer-
       | FLTDOX             DOX       2006-10-10 21:52:30
       | Emperor.Battle.for.Dune-DEVIANCE                         GAMES
       | 2007-02-15 17:25:00       OST-Emperor_-_Battle_For_Dune-
       | CD-2001-DGN                MP3       2010-09-01 22:45:42
       | 
       | I was surprised to see there is even an OST soundtrack! Amusing.
        
         | safety1st wrote:
         | The soundtrack for this game was badass, particularly the
         | Harkonnen section. Easily one of Westwood's best. Here's a
         | YouTube playlist:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1SUUkhKkXo&list=PL4E8A87285...
        
           | slavik81 wrote:
           | When I think of Emperor: Battle for Dune, I hear "Ride the
           | Worm" in my head. The music really sells the majesty of the
           | armies battling in feudal war across a dangerous desert
           | filled with behemoth creatures that could devour them all.
           | https://youtu.be/czXaKxcQNkQ
        
       | inetknght wrote:
       | Hey this is nice! This comment stuck out to me:
       | 
       | > _Westwood Online (WOL) doesn 't work anymore, so you can't play
       | multiplayer except through LAN_
       | 
       | I loved Command & Conquer in my younger years and I know a small
       | bit about Westwood Online from the client side.
       | 
       | If I recall XWIS.net did a lot of support after WOL went offline!
       | It might be worth the author reaching out to the niche developer
       | community there, although I think it's truly dying out. If I
       | recall, the work that XWIS guys did ended up getting recognition
       | from EA and they did a lot of help to continue WOL support for
       | C&C Renegade.
       | 
       | There's also FreeRA project that is the direct ancestor of
       | several of the recent re-releases of C&C on eg Steam. They might
       | also be able to help get WOL working.
       | 
       | I say this because WOL was pushed as its own library, and so a
       | replacement of the library will probably be fairly easy compared
       | to (re-)reverse-engineering the WOL stack.
       | 
       |  _Edit:_
       | 
       | Oh, as I continue reading the post, it goes on to discuss how the
       | WOL component is also fixed. Extra nice!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-07-14 23:00 UTC)