[HN Gopher] The Phantoms Haunting History
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The Phantoms Haunting History
Author : lermontov
Score : 24 points
Date : 2024-07-13 04:18 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.noemamag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.noemamag.com)
| throwup238 wrote:
| Judaism is the evolution of a Sun/Ra worshipping cult, its early
| followers killed Moses and only perpetuated the religion out of
| guilt, most historical evidence before the 14th century was faked
| by monks, and the Carolingian dynasty was invented to pad the
| current date by over 300 phantom years (the current year is
| actually 1722, not 2024).
|
| That's officially in my headcanon now.
| whythre wrote:
| Sounds like a Dan Brown fanfic
| swayvil wrote:
| He meditated. He prayed. He fasted. He ate mushrooms. He dwelt in
| the wilderness. And by doing so he saw something more. Something
| realer than what is popularly called reality.
|
| But I won't do any of that. What I will do is read stories about
| the people who did all that and interpret them with a
| conventional eye.
|
| Funny.
| datameta wrote:
| To approach the present moment with mindfulness generally does
| not allow greater insight into the distant past than
| archaeology and anthropology.
|
| Edit: I misinterpreted your comment. Yes, I agree that it is
| possible/likely that much of theology is built on top of select
| few people's transcendant experiences.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| > Many scholars have found themselves 'baffled and confused by
| the enormous proportion of forged, remade, confected, and
| otherwise mutilated documents' that form the premodern historical
| record.
|
| I'm sure they do. Nonetheless, they make the best of it. This
| article tries to say, without saying it, "hey, my made-up story
| is as good as your carefully researched one."
|
| Similar to intelligent designers saying, "hey, if you throw a
| bunch of car parts on the floor, they'll never assemble
| themselves into a car! So it had to be a Designer."
|
| Or homeopaths saying, "There's so much conventional medicine
| cannot explain. So my herbal cure and natural diet is as good as
| their chemotherapy!"
| swayvil wrote:
| Without the evidence of firsthand observation to stand upon,
| what have you got?
| AlbertCory wrote:
| > what have you got?
|
| you've got a discipline that isn't _quite_ a science, but
| usually makes a best effort to resemble one.
|
| Which still ends up better than the wild ravings of
| uneducated conspiracists.
| whythre wrote:
| Or the calculated lies of propagandists. The fact that
| ancient histories were written with an agenda in mind may
| be true, but that does not mean they are improved by adding
| further layers of 'constructed truth,' IE, lies.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| You are only imitating the homeopaths and creationists
| here.
| mistermann wrote:
| You are technically describing your interpretation.
| Careful, the supernatural can be found in what would seem
| like the very most unlikely places.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
|
| Do you have some of that for "the supernatural" ?
| mistermann wrote:
| Do you have proof that you are omniscient?
| constantcrying wrote:
| >This article tries to say, without saying it, "hey, my made-up
| story is as good as your carefully researched one."
|
| It is essentially a denouncement of historical revisionsm
| though...
| mistermann wrote:
| > This article tries to say, without saying it, "hey, my made-
| up story is as good as your carefully researched one."
|
| That itself is a great story!
|
| I wonder how many people fell for it. At least one.
| cchi_co wrote:
| Critical thinking and discernment in evaluating information
| are inportant
| antonellaleo wrote:
| In recent times, technology has proven to be more
| sophisticated and just like any other currency that can be
| stolen or lost, crypto and other digital assets has proven
| to be more difficult to recover but not impossible, and
| just like searching for any other monetary currency, you
| need a trustworthy and honest agency or personnel who can
| track and recover the value lost or stolen, in my case I
| hired easyreclaimer@gmailcom, they followed the blockchain
| and was able to recover over247k of my stolen funds within
| a couple of weeks. The fees for the services I received was
| fair and communication was excellent
| mistermann wrote:
| The airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow is roughly 20.1
| miles per hour.
| rdtsc wrote:
| > While in the past their views may have been countered by
| equally imaginative narratives from the left -- like the
| liberatory progressivism of Whig historians and Marxist theorists
| -- today it feels as though that ground is too often ceded in
| favor of "trusting the science."
|
| The first part describing the webs and flows of objectivity in
| history, with interesting examples was well written, But the
| conclusion is a bit odd. The author thinks, if you follow one the
| links they provide, that the far right individuals like Tolkien's
| works, and then also invent crockpot alternate histories, and
| suggests that the left should come up with something similar.
|
| > American narrative in decades, was the work not of historians,
| but journalists. When the profession has ceded its domination
| over the public narrative of history, amateurs will take over.
| [...] Maybe that amateurism is not such a bad thing.
|
| If historians won't do it, the journalists should. I can see
| interpreting it, yes, but pretending to write whole fictionalized
| narratives masking as history is a bit extreme. That's exactly
| what journalists in totalitarian regimes do: in Russia they say
| that Ukraine is a fictional country, it's just Russians corrupted
| by the "Satanic West", in North Korea I am sure they tell similar
| elaborate stories and so on.
| constantcrying wrote:
| What an awful article. Leaving aside the later half, which is
| just a vague denouncement of various right wing stances on
| history, the former part concerns itself with revisionist
| history, which seeks to rearrange ancient or medieval history.
|
| History will always be plagued by the various issues the article
| point out, most narrators are totally unreliable, most documents
| which have existed are lost and might have been intentionally
| destroyed, physical evidence is selected by the surrounding
| environment, measurement techniques are imprecise and the amount
| of things that happened is incredibly vast. This state of affairs
| means that we should expect that there are strong arguments for
| multiple contradicting theories and that there is a great variety
| of theories which are supported by much of the evidence.
| Essentially revisionism should be the default state of history,
| but of course it isn't.
|
| In physics we have learned in the last hundred years that roughly
| everything we had previously known was false and that most of the
| assumptions made were in fact wrong.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| > Inspired by archaeological discoveries in Amarna in Egypt,
| Freud posited that the monotheism of Moses was, in fact, of
| Egyptian origin: an evolution of the worship of the sun god,
| Aten. Even more scandalously, he asserted that ancient Jews had
| murdered Moses and perpetuated this monotheistic faith not from
| religious devotion, but from an unconscious sense of unresolved
| spiritual guilt.
|
| I wonder how much of that had to do with the Nazi demonization
| and dehumanization of Jewish people. Monotheism is one of the big
| contributions to culture by Judaism. The other 2 major modern
| monotheistic religions- Christianity and Islam are explicitly
| based on Jewish monotheism.
|
| Framing this as them stealing it from the Egyptians and killing
| Moses (similar to Jesus) seems very inline with what the Nazis
| would want to portray.
| cchi_co wrote:
| The evolution of history into a narrative that politicizes the
| present is a double-edged sword.
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