[HN Gopher] Goldman Sachs: AI Is overhyped, expensive, and unrel...
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       Goldman Sachs: AI Is overhyped, expensive, and unreliable
        
       Author : mrzool
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2024-07-12 20:12 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.404media.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.404media.co)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Discussions
       | 
       | (88 points, 12 days ago, 157 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081
       | 
       | (89 points, 1 week ago, 47 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40885632
        
       | unstatusthequo wrote:
       | Also Goldman Sachs: uses quant algorithms for high speed trading
       | at scale.
       | 
       | What a joke.
        
         | drewcoo wrote:
         | There is no contradiction in that.
         | 
         | I'd like to see the quants that are using ChatGPT for HFT.
         | Apples and oranges.
        
         | TeaBrain wrote:
         | The existence of sophisticated algorithms does not necessarily
         | imply the existence of machine learning/"AI". Despite Rentech
         | executing all their trades via algorithmic models, Jim Simons
         | once said that they didn't use any machine learning.
        
           | johnthewise wrote:
           | https://youtu.be/X72PZ_tQ4cA?si=Mj-w9iXFO4CCTCj0&t=78 I think
           | he says the opposite.
        
       | pie420 wrote:
       | Goldman Sachs has no reason to disseminate valuable market
       | insights and analysis for free. All financial thinkpieces by
       | investment firms should be disregarded as economic manipulation
       | and propaganda
        
         | sojournerc wrote:
         | They do have an interest in accurate pricing in markets (as
         | does any investor). Sometimes something can be both true and
         | have a portion of self-interest. An organization of that size
         | might know something you don't.
         | 
         | Do you have information they don't? Can you show that LLM tools
         | are worthy of the hype (investment in particular), are
         | consistent, and reliable? That's certainly not my experience.
         | 
         | It's worth saying the emperor has no clothes, especially if we
         | want to avoid the bubble pop, which admittedly GS has an
         | interest in.
        
         | singleshot_ wrote:
         | Incomplete understanding of GS's business and why someone might
         | want to do business with them.
        
         | ohxh wrote:
         | Or maybe they _do_ believe this, and entered into trades to
         | express this sentiment. Now, they need the market to correct to
         | what (they believe) is accurate, so they can take profits and
         | free up their capital again.
        
       | ramon156 wrote:
       | News flash, stock related company says thing to influence market
        
       | tedsanders wrote:
       | Goldman is correct that AI is expensive and unreliable.
       | 
       | But it's only overhyped if AI stays that way.
       | 
       | The hype isn't coming from where AI is today, but where it will
       | be in 2030 and 2040.
       | 
       | What excites the true believers is the slope, not the intercept.
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | That's not a very interesting opportunity for insitutional
         | investors (hedge funds, banks, pensions, etc). They have the
         | resources and confidence to move fast and cleverly and don't
         | need to make big bets on far off possibilities. They have
         | better things to do with their money in the meantime.
         | 
         | The nearly $1T in investment hype since Q42022 was chasing the
         | possibility that revolutionary commercialization of generative
         | AI might arrive any day. That no longer seems likely.
         | 
         | As you note, there seem to be at least a few more profound
         | discoveries that need to be made and matured, and so that
         | revolution is still a long way out (from the perspective of
         | these investors), even if it looks meaningfully more possible
         | than it did two years ago.
        
         | xk_id wrote:
         | "Over an arbitrarily long timeline, assuming stable
         | geopolitical conditions, technology will continue to improve,
         | at an arbitrary rate". What a groundbreaking insight, no wonder
         | people are excited.
        
           | elevatedastalt wrote:
           | The slope has changed between 10 years and ago.
           | 
           | You are free to disagree, but don't pretend like you don't
           | understand what the AI crowd is saying.
        
             | xk_id wrote:
             | Never in the history of man has the slope of progress been
             | linear. The AI crowd is entirely predicated on a platitude.
        
         | _heimdall wrote:
         | The hype follows what OpenAI's latest release does though, not
         | what OpenAI may release in a decade or two.
         | 
         | > What excites the true believers is the slope, not the
         | intercept.
         | 
         | The phrase "true believers" jumps out to me here. It sure makes
         | AI (well, ML) sound more like a religion than a field of
         | technological research.
        
           | elevatedastalt wrote:
           | > The hype follows what OpenAI's latest release does though
           | 
           | Yes, because what OpenAI releases today helps us improve the
           | prediction of what it may release in a decade or so.
        
           | signal_space wrote:
           | Cult of the exponential, considers sigmoids heresy.
        
         | inopinatus wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | nipponese wrote:
       | Actual report https://www.goldmansachs.com/intelligence/pages/gs-
       | research/...
       | 
       | Right in the preamble
       | 
       | ..despite these concerns and constraints, we still see room for
       | the AI theme to run, either because AI starts to deliver on its
       | promise, or because bubbles take a long time to burst.
        
         | knowaveragejoe wrote:
         | Overhyped? Sure. Expensive? Definitely. Unreliable? Sometimes.
         | 
         | So many HNers love to be contrarian about anything resembling a
         | hype train, and feel validated when a report like this comes
         | out. I think the reality is that people moving forward with
         | integrating AI into various aspects of their business and
         | reaping the rewards aren't here making snarky "I told you so"
         | comments, which seems to be every other comment on this and the
         | other threads about the same article.
        
           | monero-xmr wrote:
           | HN is overwhelmingly pro-AI and on the LLM hype train.
           | Silicon Valley and YC are largely _only_ investing in that
           | sector right now. Pretending there is some huge contrarian
           | group here is absurd
        
           | jncfhnb wrote:
           | Sometimes unreliable is a very funny qualifier. If something
           | were consistently unreliable then unreliable wouldn't be the
           | right term.
        
           | sojournerc wrote:
           | But, I've yet to see the "rewards". I see tech companies
           | laying off staff with the expectation of AI taking up the
           | slack while every piece of software I use gets shitier. Show
           | me the bottom line improvement, or better tools, better art,
           | better music... It just doesn't live up to the hype.
        
       | EternalFury wrote:
       | It's healthy for GS to express a contrarian opinion.
       | 
       | If GPT 5 doesn't meet high expectations, another winter could
       | soon arrive.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | If the success of a single company -- indeed, a _single
         | product_ -- is really that pivotal, the industry is already on
         | the brink of collapse.
        
       | crispyambulance wrote:
       | Goldman Sachs is overhyped, overpaid, and unreliable.
        
         | DarkNova6 wrote:
         | Those are not mutually exclusive.
        
       | frithsun wrote:
       | AI is enabling a new generation of exploits and hacks that will
       | force tech to get a lot simpler, more human readable, and more
       | privacy oriented.
       | 
       | Everything is going to need to be refactored for a world where
       | bad actors have truly unlimited time and attention to invest in
       | identifying privacy and security vulnerabilities.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-12 23:00 UTC)