[HN Gopher] Born into slavery, he rose to the top of France's ar...
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       Born into slavery, he rose to the top of France's art world
        
       Author : prismatic
       Score  : 93 points
       Date   : 2024-07-12 13:24 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | https://archive.is/eAgFS
        
       | asveikau wrote:
       | I like the photorealism in some of these images. They look
       | somewhat like contemporary people even though it's more than 200
       | years ago.
        
         | argiopetech wrote:
         | People haven't changed much. We just wear cheaper clothes.
         | 
         | No disagreement about the excellent art.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | Obviously clothing and hairstyles change. More recently,
           | average BMI is higher, or people are more likely to be
           | tattooed. I'm sure there's other differences that aren't
           | coming to mind.
           | 
           | But even setting aside any of that, it's pretty rare that I
           | see a portrait that old and I think it could conceivably be
           | recent.
        
             | r14c wrote:
             | even the amount of tattoos depends on culture and region.
             | lots of cultures around the world practice some form of
             | tattooing. even the BMI thing varies somewhat because
             | different BMIs are healthy for different ethnic groups.
        
               | Modified3019 wrote:
               | This is a tangent to the mention of cultural BMI, but I
               | recently came across these:
               | 
               | Ritual fattening of Massa men
               | 
               | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/32978275_Guru_-
               | fatt...
               | 
               | Leblouh, the force feeding of girls to fatten them.
               | 
               | https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-tradition-
               | leblouh-in...
        
             | saagarjha wrote:
             | Well the clothing and hairstyle in the top photo looks
             | pretty modern to me
        
           | tetris11 wrote:
           | People haven't changed much over the last 2000 years I think,
           | just different tools and terminologies
        
         | DiscourseFan wrote:
         | Its funny that you say that since photography was invented in
         | France in that period. Was it the paintings that were
         | photorealistic, or the photos that were painterly?
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | Mirrors did exists since a long time though.
           | 
           | You can substitute "photorealistic" with "looks like the
           | square (or rectangle) picture in the mirror".
           | 
           | Turns out photographic pictures did capture that "image in
           | the mirror" picture. Funnily enough, using... Mirrors.
           | 
           | > ... or the photos that were painterly?
           | 
           | The answer is simply no. The real world doesn't work like
           | that: photons/mirrors/prisms/our eyes "capturing" photons.
           | Physics vs dialectic if you want.
        
             | kingkawn wrote:
             | The nature of the photographic mechanism becomes a new
             | definition of "reality," but it is still a cultural
             | byproduct, leaving Realness to be still uncovered in all
             | kinds of ways
        
             | taejo wrote:
             | > You can substitute "photorealistic" with "looks like the
             | square (or rectangle) picture in the mirror".
             | 
             | Reflections in the mirror have depth and motion. Even
             | without the viewer or the subject moving, the viewer can
             | see depth in the mirror that isn't in a photo. In those
             | respects, photos are more like paintings than mirrors. Of
             | course, in other respects, they're more like mirrors.
        
             | spython wrote:
             | In early photography history there was a pictorialist
             | movement where people used special sort focus lenses to
             | introduce more of a painterly quality. These lenses, such
             | as Rodenstock Imagon still exist and are sought after.
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | For how photorealistic paintings can be made with little
           | painting skill, a setup with mirrors, and lots of patience:
           | 
           | Tim's Vermeer https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3089388
        
         | throwup238 wrote:
         | It's currently closed for renovation and set to reopen in
         | November but if you have a chance to go see the Frick
         | Collection in New York, I strongly recommend it for two of the
         | most photorealistic paintings I've ever seen: the portraits of
         | Sir Thomas More [1] and Thomas Cromwell [2] by Hans Holbein the
         | Younger (sadly the digitized versions are low resolution and
         | don't do them justice).
         | 
         | The paintings are 500 years old but look like photographic
         | portraits, down to the individual hairs in the stubble on
         | More's chin. Realism was in vogue at the time but there weren't
         | many other artists who were as good as Hans Holbein.
         | 
         | [1] https://collections.frick.org/objects/100/sir-thomas-more
         | 
         | [2] https://collections.frick.org/objects/101/thomas-cromwell
        
           | jajko wrote:
           | Thats an obsessive level of detail for that era. Later
           | Rembrandt's school were focusing more on the play of shadows
           | on given subject and its surroundings, but most of the
           | details were not to this level, at least not those I've seen
           | up close (but still some parts were pretty crazy, ie
           | embroidered collar or vein structure of wrinkled skin of an
           | old woman).
        
       | vidarh wrote:
       | It mentions Dumas held a eulogy for him. Dumas father came from a
       | similar family background: He was the son of a French nobleman
       | and a Caribbean slave, and Dumas' grandfather bought his father
       | free and brought him to France, where he ended up a general under
       | Napoleon.
        
         | thelock85 wrote:
         | Came here to say this... The Black Count was such an
         | illuminating read. It's surreal to think that Dumas' own father
         | was the inspiration for writing Count of Monte Cristo.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | Along these lines - the life story of Abram Petrovich
           | Gannibal,
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Petrovich_Gannibal, who
           | was Alexander Pushkin's great grandfather, is jaw-dropping
           | incredible to me. I'm really surprised a Hollywood movie
           | hasn't been made about him.
        
           | sillyfluke wrote:
           | Unless there were gaping liberties taken with facts in that
           | book, I can't for life of me fathom how that book still
           | hasn't been made into a movie yet. It's amazing how one
           | person was at the right place at the right time and at the
           | wrong place at the wrong time in two very extreme ways in one
           | lifetime.
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | The Wikipedia page for him,
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_Guillon-Lethi%C3%A8r...,
       | states that he was _not_ born into slavery, but instead:
       | 
       | > He was born out of wedlock, to Marie-Francoise Dupepaye, a free
       | person of color, and Pierre Guillon, a colonial Royal Notary.
       | 
       | The source for that sentence states his mother was "une esclave
       | affranchie noire" - a freed black slave.
       | 
       | May seem like a small detail, and I'm not sure the Wikipedia page
       | is correct, but I think it's worth correcting the reporting if it
       | is.
        
         | techaudible83 wrote:
         | The article does discuss this, and the main point to understand
         | is that his mother was a slave and was then emancipated,
         | meaning any children she had prior to emancipation were born
         | into slavery. The article says that his father emancipated both
         | his mother and him. It does not state that there is 100%
         | definitive evidence of his status at birth but given his
         | mother's status and the lack of baptismal records for his
         | birth, it is very likely he was born a slave.
        
       | ralferoo wrote:
       | > "Le Thiere" is French for "the third"
       | 
       | Is this true? I know modern French is troisieme, but I'd never
       | seen this before, so I googled. There seems to be nothing on the
       | internet about it, and remarkably few matches for Thiere beyond
       | misspellings of theiere (teapot), which makes me think the
       | authors of this article just made this up.
        
         | sattoshi wrote:
         | Troisieme is the third when counting. "Tiers" is the third when
         | taking a fraction.
         | 
         | I can only speak to modern french though.
        
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