[HN Gopher] Cradle: Empowering Foundation Agents Towards General...
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       Cradle: Empowering Foundation Agents Towards General Computer
       Control
        
       Author : ddl
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2024-07-12 12:19 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (baai-agents.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (baai-agents.github.io)
        
       | dinkblam wrote:
       | i am waiting for version 2.0 "Enclave"
        
       | Art9681 wrote:
       | Fantastic. This is why efforts to defeat web scrapers will
       | ultimately prove futile unless the human/computer interfaces
       | require constant biometric authentication. I imagine in some dark
       | timeline, content will not be displayed unless the finger
       | touching the trackpad is a human finger. Or the keyboard keys
       | wont register unless they detect a fingerprint or other bio
       | signatures. Same thing with online multiplayer games. Only
       | approved controllers that have some future tech that constantly
       | polls that fingerprint pressing the buttons to ensure it is a
       | human.
       | 
       | Perhaps something like the eye tracking tech in modern vehicles
       | to ensure you're paying attention if the lane assist is turned
       | on.
       | 
       | Of course, that would be awful. But what other recourse is there?
        
         | dsign wrote:
         | > What other resources is there?
         | 
         | Charge money to the content consumer? Of course, that will be
         | unacceptable for companies that make money from ads...they will
         | prefer the dystopia. It will also be bad for us humans when our
         | income dwindles because the machines take our jobs...which this
         | paper shows it's just a matter of time.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Drink verification can.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | > unless the human/computer interfaces require constant
         | biometric authentication
         | 
         | Other than the obvious path of getting over this fear of bots
         | and whatnot, I see 2 options forward in this regard: 1)
         | government ID verification on all major platforms 2) end-to-end
         | verification of all software being ran, and refusal to run
         | other programs if unsigned code is present; I'm pretty sure
         | there's plenty of efforts in this area already
        
           | polotics wrote:
           | Sure, end-to-end verification of software being run could be
           | a thing, but what then prevents the LLM-assisted setup from
           | using an analog video feed to a separate computer, and analog
           | input back on keyboard and mouse? Do you also expect we'd
           | sign-off on location and proximity -tracking for all
           | computing devices in existence?
        
             | squigz wrote:
             | I mean... I wouldn't have expected us to 'sign off' on many
             | of the privacy-eroding shit we've been given, and yet...
             | 
             | To be clear, I agree that this is a losing battle, but I
             | don't think that's going to stop some interested parties in
             | pushing systems like what we're talking about.
        
             | doctorpangloss wrote:
             | Every time you access a Cloudflare WAF protected service
             | from an iPhone's cell connection, you are living the
             | situation you describe.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | > Of course, that would be awful. But what other recourse is
         | there?
         | 
         | Rewatching Jurassic Park?
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | I imagine in that same timeline, none of the issues have
         | actually been solved but there are a lot more homeless people
         | with missing fingers.
        
         | throwaway4aday wrote:
         | If the bot isn't abusing the service and is operating at a
         | speed roughly equivalent to a human and your intent is to
         | distribute the service freely or the bot is paying a fee for
         | access then what's the problem? Anything I can think of would
         | also be abuse of the terms of service or code of conduct and
         | falls in the same category as regular meat people doing the
         | same things.
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | Wow, this looks _amazing_.
       | 
       | The authors have developed Cradle, a multimodal-LLM-powered agent
       | framework with six modules: Information Gathering, Self-
       | Reflection, Task Inference, Skill Curation, Action Planning, and
       | Memory. Once Cradle has processed high-level instructions, its
       | inputs are _sequences of computer screenshots_. Its output is
       | _executable code for low-level keyboard and mouse control_ ,
       | enabling Cradle to interact with any software and complete long-
       | horizon complex tasks without relying on any built-in APIs:
       | Oversimplified Big-Picture Diagram
       | +------------+                      |   Cradle   |    executable
       | code       screenshots -> |(high-level | -> for controlling
       | |  planning) |    keyboard & mouse
       | +------------+
       | 
       | The authors' experiments show what to me looks like impressive
       | generalization and performance across software applications,
       | successfully operating daily software like Chrome and Outlook,
       | and across commercial video games: It is able to follow the main
       | storyline and complete 40-minute-long missions in Red Dead
       | Redemption 2, create a city of a thousand people in Cities:
       | Skylines, farm and harvest parsnips in Stardew Valley, and trade
       | and bargain to make a profit in Dealer's Life 2.
       | 
       | There are of course many caveats -- the technology is still in
       | its infant stage -- but still, I'm impressed at how quickly
       | things are progressing.
       | 
       | We sure live in interesting times!
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | Hold on to your scrip, two more papers down the line. What a
         | time
         | 
         | No one is prepared.
        
       | eamag wrote:
       | I'm looking through the code, does it mean that the authors wrote
       | all basic skills themselves and let LLM choose from them? So this
       | approach can't be generalised, can it?
       | 
       | https://github.com/BAAI-Agents/Cradle/pull/44/files#diff-3f3...
        
         | huevosabio wrote:
         | I think they seed it with some skills and then can generate
         | more? The website allures to "skill generation" so arguably
         | they are doing some level of code generation.
        
         | finnh wrote:
         | Right ... the output isn't really "keyboard & mouse operations"
         | as stated in the abstract. The output is a sequence of atomic
         | commands ("shoot", "select_weapon") or composite commands
         | ("follow") that are then translated into mouse actions by a
         | human-written layer.
         | 
         | Similarly, when I'm typing this post my output isn't "keyboard
         | interrupts" nor "TCP frames". Those things do happen, but only
         | by the grace of others' work.
         | 
         | Still I like the basic framework idea & I suppose future work
         | looks at pushing the provided layer lower & lower - so the
         | system can learn those atomic commands, rather than having
         | humans provide them - and pushing the logic higher & higher via
         | AI-generated composite commands.
        
           | fordacious wrote:
           | Many games do happen to be set up this way wrt their input
           | systems if they happen to leverage Steam input. Player
           | actions in game are defined as abstract verbs with concrete
           | input device binding being left to the player / underlying
           | system. Valve is trying to nudge games towards being platonic
           | objects isolated from specific systems (so they'll be readily
           | compatible steam deck, vr, pc etc...). Translating these
           | verbs in an automated way with an agent is an interesting
           | side effect.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | The problem is not triggering the action, the problem is
             | being at the right place at the right time and looking into
             | the right direction.
        
         | Fripplebubby wrote:
         | They start with some basic skills but the model builds the more
         | complex skills. The specific skills that they start with
         | depends on which task, for example RDR2 they start with only
         | how to turn, move forward, shoot, and select an item from the
         | item equip wheel and then a couple composite skills that were
         | not _necessary_ but saved a lot of time - for example, "follow
         | npc", since the model could follow an npc without it but it
         | required a huge amount of back and forth. However, a lot of
         | skills were actually learned by the model from the in-game
         | tutorial in RDR2 explaining how to do things!
         | 
         | > So this approach can't be generalised, can it?
         | 
         | The paper definitely demonstrates that the _approach_ can be
         | generalized because they use the same approach across a variety
         | of different environments and tasks, but you can also see that
         | they did have to specialize the prompts, tools (like how the
         | incoming screenshot was decorated with object detection /
         | segmentation, stuff like that), and set of skills for each
         | environment.
        
       | lucianbr wrote:
       | What happened to Robotic Process Automation? Wasn't that supposed
       | to be this?
        
         | bckr wrote:
         | Robotic process automation is when you automate a process a
         | business is already doing.
         | 
         | Models like this will be useful for RPA.
        
         | ilaksh wrote:
         | I think I saw a framework designed to make RPA easier for LLMs
         | by identifying all of the HI elements or fields with a number
         | and allowing them to do entry by reference to the number or
         | something. Can't remember what it was called.
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | weird nitpick -- they keep mentioning LMM, but do they mean LLMs?
        
         | Krastan wrote:
         | LMM is a large multimodal model. So it does more than just
         | language, in this case interacting with UI, in others using
         | voice and video
        
       | Fripplebubby wrote:
       | Very cool work. Note that this was completed using a vanilla
       | ChatGPT-4o model, all the magic dust is prompting, the dataflow
       | between stages (info gathering, self-reflection, task inference,
       | skill curation, action planning), and some tooling like added
       | object detection / bounding boxes / icon detection.
       | 
       | Also, neither here nor there but I enjoyed the discussion in the
       | paper about how the model had a surprisingly low performance on
       | sending an email in Outlook because while it well-understood the
       | task and how to send an email, Outlook's UI still managed to
       | confuse it - can relate.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-12 23:02 UTC)