[HN Gopher] IRS Collects $1B in Back Taxes from Millionaires
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       IRS Collects $1B in Back Taxes from Millionaires
        
       Author : tldrthelaw
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2024-07-11 18:40 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.forbes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.forbes.com)
        
       | ddoolin wrote:
       | This is why Republicans are trying to defund the IRS.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | The problem isn't tax revenue.
       | 
       | The problem is the federal government spends $1billion dollars
       | every 1.46 hours.
       | 
       | We collect an _absurd_ amount of taxes. Far Far Far Far too much.
       | The vast majority of it is wasted.
       | 
       | Collecting more isn't going to solve the problem and it never
       | has.
        
         | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
         | I personally don't feel like my tax dollars are wasted, by and
         | large. I also live in a large metro where I see my tax dollars
         | being spent all over the place on worthwhile projects. Is every
         | dollar spent as efficient as possible? No, but humans don't
         | operate at peak efficiently and never will.
        
           | mythrwy wrote:
           | The projects you see in the metro would probably be mostly
           | from local (county/ city) taxes as opposed to federal taxes
           | no? (I do realize the feds sometimes contribute partially).
           | 
           | Someone could probably make the same arguments for/against
           | local taxes, but OP appeared to be referring to federal taxes
           | as wasteful.
        
             | apothegm wrote:
             | For some things yes, for some no. Fwiw, urban areas
             | contribute FAR more in federal taxes than they get back in
             | services. Those taxes then are used to support suburban and
             | rural areas that receive much more in services than they
             | pay in taxes.
             | 
             | Either way, it's very evident in many urban areas that
             | taxes paid result in both economic and quality of life
             | benefits.
        
           | lotsoweiners wrote:
           | My guess is that you haven't worked for the government. I've
           | spent 20 years working for multiple government agencies and
           | the one commonality is that they are all very wasteful. I've
           | spent countless hours working on pet projects for some middle
           | manager or executive who leaves three months later and the
           | project gets scrapped. I've seen plenty of passionate
           | developers, both employees and contractors, come in and leave
           | after a year once they've understood that no one cares and
           | that they will always be wading through bureaucratic sludge
           | in order to get anything done.
        
             | rhelz wrote:
             | _chuckle_ My guess is you haven 't worked much in the
             | private sector :-) You wouldn't even believe the private
             | jets, yachts, huge bonuses, and other things they spend on
             | which have nothing to do with making money. Why, Elon Musk
             | just got Tesla to pay him $50 billion. For what, exactly?
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | The unspoken point being made here is about corruption, not
           | efficiency per se. I want all my tax money going towards the
           | public good, not just fractions/percentages of it.
        
         | Qiu_Zhanxuan wrote:
         | European talking but do you feel the proportion of tax being
         | wasted has increased or decreased since the last 2 decades ?
         | Did public service got better or worse ? Social program ?
         | Education ? Foreign Policy ?
         | 
         | I always felt that America had low taxes and most of it was
         | used to deliver the bare minimum services (police, defense,
         | public servant, social program) or even below (public schools,
         | teacher, justice, IRS...) what is necessary for a society to
         | sustain itself.
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | I see tax wasting increasing. For example my local and state
           | government spend lots of taxes on funding activist / social
           | justice programs that are simply not wanted by most citizens
           | but are still pushed through by dedicated extremist
           | activists. These programs always have generic names and goals
           | like "community building" and they achieve nothing, except
           | handing out our hard earned money to politician's friends
           | (who they can count on for election support) and their
           | political causes. Meanwhile basic government functions like
           | policing and prosecution and education are failing.
           | 
           | Here's one example among a LONG list of grifts that
           | illustrates how reckless politically biased elected officials
           | can be with everyone else's money - spending millions so some
           | activist group can run a minor survey:
           | https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
           | news/politics/seattle-s...
           | 
           | Another example: here, funding for public schools has
           | increased a huge amount - it is more than double what it was
           | a decade ago. Our schools spend something like 20-25K USD per
           | student per year now. But the schools are in poor physical
           | condition, the quality of education is low, programs like
           | music are on the chopping block, many schools are being
           | closed to save money, the teachers and their unions are
           | unaccountable for performance, and the school/district
           | leaders are focused on political battles like injecting
           | ethnic studies into math
           | (https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/new-course-
           | outlin...).
           | 
           | The thing is government programs are generally not held to
           | any standard of performance and accountability, and citizens
           | don't have much time to watch over them. Spending and budgets
           | always go up not down, because there is always some dedicated
           | group fighting to extract something for themselves. The
           | leaders who are enabling all this act in ways that ensure
           | election and re election, not good results for their
           | citizens. And they act in favor of their personal political
           | and ideological goals instead of being neutral. This type of
           | "corruption" then causes many people to want to just reduce
           | taxes because they're not even getting the basics they
           | thought they already pay for. I don't have a solution, I just
           | think it is some kind of spiral that leads to people
           | believing taxes are wasted more as time goes on.
        
             | neilyio wrote:
             | What a place we live in where someone can see "policing and
             | prosecuting" as "basic government functions" rather than
             | "community building".
        
         | Larrikin wrote:
         | What is it wasted on specifically and what do you think taxes
         | should be spent on specifically?
        
           | lotsoweiners wrote:
           | In my 20 years govt experience, it is wasted on pet projects
           | and failed projects created by contractors.
        
         | mpalmer wrote:
         | There is no "the" problem. You identify one problem to
         | exclusion of the very real, salient problem that the average
         | taxpayer sees the wealthy as not paying their fair share.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | I wonder how that perception problem can be tackled?
           | 
           | The top 1% of people pay 45% of federal income taxes. The top
           | 10% of people pay 75%.
           | 
           | Rates are already highly progressive.
           | 
           | https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-
           | in....
        
             | rhelz wrote:
             | // The top 10% of people pay 75% //
             | 
             | 75% of what? Income tax? Very misleading--there is more
             | than one way to make money, and those in the top 10% are
             | probably not making most of their money via income. Warren
             | Buffet famously said his secretary has a higher tax rate
             | than he does.
             | 
             | // I wonder how that perception problem can be tackled? //
             | 
             | The best way would be an even distribution of wealth. The
             | top 1% own half.
             | 
             | The other 99% share the other half. You can quote any
             | statistic you'd like, but when 1% own half, the other 99%
             | are not going to think they have a perception problem.
        
           | mythrwy wrote:
           | Here is the problem.
           | 
           | Even if you taxed "rich people" harder, say tax all
           | billionaires at 90%, there isn't enough to cover what is
           | being spent and it's not even close.
           | 
           | For instance, there is approximately 5 trillion currently
           | held by billionaires in the US. That, coincidentally, is
           | approximately 1 year of current federal spending.
           | 
           | Then the following year you have no more billionaires to
           | harvest as it took them many decades to get the money.
           | 
           | On the other hand you have people who say "well, the federal
           | government needs to stop spending so much" (and this does
           | make sense at the same level "tax the rich more does "). But
           | the problem with removing, or even substantially reducing,
           | federal deficit spending is the resulting giant black hole
           | would economically collapse many things in the short term at
           | least.
           | 
           | I don't know that there are easy answers for the problems the
           | US finds itself in at the moment. Probably some sort of
           | financial reset at some point, which is unlikely to be either
           | clean or painless.
        
             | rhelz wrote:
             | During the Clinton administration, they (1) raised taxes,
             | and (2) eliminated the budget deficit. In fact, we had
             | budget surpluses.
             | 
             | Personally, I was shocked. I thought for sure the increase
             | in taxes would push an already wobbly economy into deep
             | depression. What happened instead is that---after the
             | Government stopped hovering up all the money available to
             | lend--interest rates decreased, and people both had to and
             | could lend their money to actually productive businesses.
             | It was boom city after that.
             | 
             | There is no unsolvable debt problem. If we couldn't repay
             | our debt, people would stop buying our bonds. And the
             | solution is so simple. Raise the taxes until interest rates
             | are low enough to trigger an investment boom.
        
               | mythrwy wrote:
               | They eliminated the budget deficit during the Clinton
               | years on the backs of the Reagan 80s boom and the end of
               | the cold war. It was a unique time. Also, we did not
               | spend nearly as much back then and it was easier to do.
               | 
               | It didn't last very long and soon we were to Bush 2
               | spending and massive deficits again. Every subsequent
               | administration has dug the hole deeper to the point we
               | spent 140 billion in June alone on federal debt interest
               | payments.
               | 
               | Who will you raise taxes on? The "Rich"? (see my other
               | comment, it's not enough money), the "middle class" who
               | are being squeezed silly by inflation at the moment? I
               | don't know that they can shoulder much increase without
               | big upheaval.
               | 
               | I agree no problem is unsolvable, but that doesn't mean
               | the problem will be solved gracefully. I suspect a new
               | order of things economically is how it works out in the
               | end, and what that looks like and when it occurs I do not
               | know.
        
         | nitwit005 wrote:
         | You don't actually believe revenue doesn't matter.
        
       | tonetegeatinst wrote:
       | One interesting thing is that the us government can.leverage its
       | national debt....or so it claims.....as this is why we are
       | apparently not freaking out over the debt crisis. The government
       | has learned to use debt as a measure of "progress" like sure
       | technically every us citizen is responsible for that debt but
       | when every vote gets to decide on a handful of people....
       | Millions could disagree with the representative and yet they
       | still are responsible.
       | 
       | Like imagine if the average person could just decide they arnt
       | going to be able to cover interest on the debt they have, yet
       | they still could print tons of money. Money that's only backed by
       | their word, and the debt gets used in your local town
       | negotiations as a weapon.
        
       | mythrwy wrote:
       | The federal treasury also spent 140 billion paying just interest
       | on the national debt in June alone (nearly 900 billion year to
       | date).
       | 
       | So, this isn't even a drop in the bucket.
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-11 23:02 UTC)