[HN Gopher] Three years in North Korea as a foreigner (2021)
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Three years in North Korea as a foreigner (2021)
Author : Hansig_jw
Score : 183 points
Date : 2024-07-11 15:52 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mydiplomaticlife.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (mydiplomaticlife.com)
| stuff4ben wrote:
| This was fascinating! If I could do it all over again, I'd have
| gone into the US Foreign Service. Maybe not to places like North
| Korea (which we don't have a presence in anyways), but I'd have
| loved to travel the world. Maybe in the next life...
| unixhero wrote:
| Sure, if you could get in.
|
| I tried for 5 years in a row to get into my country's service.
| It failed. Pivoted to information security, hey at least I am a
| millionaire now.
| M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote:
| may I ask if you have any career advice?
| jawilson2 wrote:
| Try 5 years to get into foreign service, then pivot to IS?
| lukan wrote:
| Yes. Or more general: work hard to get something. Even if
| you will never reach it, you might still improve enough
| in general, to be ready to do and get something else
| instead.
| trallnag wrote:
| What currency
| bozey07 wrote:
| > Maybe not to places like North Korea (which we don't have a
| presence in anyways)
|
| Sure they don't ;)
| jrockway wrote:
| > Maybe in the next life...
|
| I told myself this about an important decision. I thought about
| it more and decided I didn't really believe in that (proof:
| what do you remember from your last life), so just did it in
| this one. No regrets!
| pasquinelli wrote:
| you'll eventually forget this life too, so i'm not sure about
| your proof ;)
| netsharc wrote:
| The last paragraph talks about being cut-off and isolated. He
| didn't mention Internet or phones for private use, so I wonder if
| they didn't have that. I can imagine smartphones being
| disallowed, and even if allowed, limited to home WiFi...
| tarentel wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have internet but I know
| little of North Korea. They definitely didn't have smartphones
| as this was the early 2000s.
| notdonspaulding wrote:
| They did not have internet. From the article:
|
| > You were in a country that really was sealed off from the
| rest of the world. No internet or social media. All press and
| TV (one channel) dedicated not for news but solely for the
| glorification of the Leader. That is the Kim dynasty and the
| regime.
| netsharc wrote:
| Obviously the average citizen don't have Internet, but an
| embassy without Internet (most probably through satellite) is
| unthinkable, they need to be able to talk to their home
| government.
|
| But if we go back 20 years (others have said this is written
| in the early 2000's), satellite communication was probably
| worse than 28.8k modems and really expensive, so yeah, it
| could've been there but only for official and not personal
| use.
| TechDebtDevin wrote:
| They have Iphone 11s in NK and plenty of smartphones. They
| have some internet, and they'd have more if they West
| allowed some investment and wasn't punishing a civilian
| population because of who their leaders are.
| tekla wrote:
| I wonder how NK blocking their own internet from the
| outside world is the west punishing the NK civilian
| population.
| roywiggins wrote:
| Later on they talk about installing a satellite dish for
| diplomatic communication, so the embassy might have had some
| sort of internet connection over that.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Weird, I tried to click on "Kimchi Harvest" to see a larger
| version. Instead, the link was to
| https://mydiplomaticlife.com/how-to-survive-3-years-in-north...,
| which just took me to the top of the article.
| starik36 wrote:
| Oddly enough, Soviet Union had a thing similar to "Kimchi
| Harvest". I remember workers in my town having to go work at a
| collective farm for a week harvesting things.
|
| They also had something called "subotnik", aka voluntary
| Saturday labor. This was a practice where citizens, including
| workers and students, participated in unpaid labor on
| Saturdays. These activities included various tasks like
| cleaning up the city (that's what I remember doing as a kid).
| There was nothing "voluntary" about it.
| ZhongXina wrote:
| It was still the norm in Uzbekistan until just a few years
| ago, but with cotton instead of potatoes. Not anymore AFAIK.
| sva_ wrote:
| Gimjang week is pretty common in SK as well, especially among
| the elders
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimjang
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| There was another diplomat that has videos on YouTube. I can't
| remember his name but he was able to move freely and use his DSLR
| around Pyongyang.
| contingencies wrote:
| Probably 15-20 years later then.
| ZhongXina wrote:
| Jaka Parker.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDcfiEX__cA
| rightbyte wrote:
| Strange. It looks like some movie set in the DDR, but with
| the wrong manufacturing date on the car props and Korean
| extras in modern cloths. I guess the sparse city planning is
| the reason? Like, a lot of space.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Years ago, I was lucky enough to listen to a talk from an
| American who got to be a tourist in North Korea. Ever since then
| I've been fascinated with stories like this.
|
| North Korea is on my bucket list, but hopefully after the state
| loosens up.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| North Korea can take you with whatever justification they feel
| like and return you as a vegetable.
|
| I know the mass games look cool and people like to go to weird
| places, please avoid North Korea
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > North Korea can take you with whatever justification they
| feel like and return you as a vegetable.
|
| That's most/all countries (or their embassies) you visit, no?
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khash.
| ..
| someoneontenet wrote:
| I'm sure some countries are more willing to treat guests to
| the vegetable treatment than others.
| victorbjorklund wrote:
| A big political enemy of the saudi family that been a pain
| in their ass (rightly so since they are an evil
| dictatorship) vs random student that just took a poster as
| a souvernir.
|
| Not the same thing. Anyone can be killed in North Korea.
| 99,99999999999% of people are not on the saudi familys
| enemy list.
| BizarreByte wrote:
| > random student that just took a poster as a souvernir.
|
| Let's not mince words here, he stole government property
| in a country with some of the harshest laws on earth.
|
| Did he deserve to die for it? No, but it was an
| incredibly stupid thing to do.
| yongjik wrote:
| One might even argue that the stupidity began when he
| decided to visit NK.
| kennyloginz wrote:
| His fellow travelers say this was impossible, the
| "recording" was fake, and the timestamps are at a time
| when he wasn't even in the hotel. Why would you assume n.
| Korea is being honest here?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| yeah for sure, because otherwise NK has _fantastic_
| relations with USA!
| andy81 wrote:
| Other countries have a larger denominator to reduce the
| proportion of visits vs arbitrary detention and torture.
| smcl wrote:
| I am sorry but if you travel somewhere like Iran or North
| Korea you are doing so explicitly against the advice of most
| governments. Every single person visiting these places is
| told that they need to keep their shit together, otherwise
| the consequences could be dire for them or for those they
| come into contact with.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Iran doesn't chill my blood in the same way imagining being
| in North Korea does. I have no desire to go there. I
| wouldn't go if offered. It still strikes me as a more or
| less rational country that stridently disagrees with my own
| country's politics (and my own), not a boot stamping on a
| human face -- forever.
| smcl wrote:
| Honestly I'd still like to visit both (particularly Iran)
| and I know people who have. But there is definitely
| advice you need to heed in both places (tbh in _all_
| places...)
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Add Afghanistan to that list. Some Austrian far-right dumbass
| went there to make a YouTube video to claim Afghanistan were
| safe (obviously to justify deporting refugees there) - and lo
| behold, he got arrested by the Taliban on espionage charges
| and ultimately released after 9 extensive months of
| negotiations [1].
|
| [1] https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/oesterreic
| h-r...
| sevensor wrote:
| Or, you can visit South Korea today, and if you want to go off
| the beaten path, leave Seoul. The east coast is a beautiful and
| fascinating place. Go to Gangwon, ride a cable car up
| Seoraksan, eat the best seafood of your life.
| jdougan wrote:
| Michael Malice?
| nenadg wrote:
| Laibach also got away with it -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oD0W6SSBUA
| the_duke wrote:
| The post never mentions a date, but this must have been around
| 2000-2004, since that is when the UK embassy was established. [1]
|
| Some things have probably changed since then.
|
| A fascinating read regardless.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_Kingdom,...
| dheera wrote:
| I wonder who works in those embassies. Are there some British
| dudes just living there that go to the embassy every day for
| work? Where do they buy food? What do their residences look
| like? Do have spouses and children? Where do they work and go
| to school? Do they enjoy life there?
| thriftwy wrote:
| They likely go to specialized shops for foreigners where you
| may only pay with US$-backed coupons, and can purchase most
| of stuff you can commonly buy in Japan.
| __s wrote:
| > There were a handful of shops that catered for
| foreigners. All transactions had to be in Euros as
| possession of local currency by foreigners was forbidden. A
| lot of the items were imported from China and from time to
| time, local fresh produce would make a rare appearance.
| Meat was always in short supply.
| lutoma wrote:
| Here's a video of what one of those shops looks like by
| an Indonesian diplomat:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYJ9u0sEE4
| netsharc wrote:
| Some of your questions are answered in the actual article...
| no mention of spouses or kids, so most probably they don't
| come along.
| sva_ wrote:
| A clue about the time might be
|
| > The World Food Programme (whose Head at the time was an
| American called Reagan!)
|
| But I can't find him here or elsewhere:
|
| https://www.wfp.org/previous-executive-directors
| jkaptur wrote:
| Sounds like this person:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ragan
| wongarsu wrote:
| That must be a misspelling of Richard Ragan. He headed the
| North Korean World Food Programme from 2003 to 2005 according
| to Wikipedia
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ragan
| OliveMate wrote:
| Meanwhile instead of some fancy building, their embassy over
| here is... Well, a little more domestic.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_North_Korea,_London
| FrancoisBosun wrote:
| I'm mostly surprised about the free admission of bribery:
|
| > However, I soon found that a bottle of Johnie Walker Black
| Label handed out at particularly frustrating moments made things
| miraculously happen a lot quicker. Oh how the North Koreans loved
| their whiskey.
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| That's just diplomacy.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Long history of it, too.
|
| The US made special clear coke in nondescript bottles for
| Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov so he could look like he
| was drinking vodka instead of the illegal Western drink.
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/us-secret-clear-coca-cola-
| fo...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Coke
| spitfire wrote:
| So _thats_ where crystal Pepsi came from!
|
| Bloody Commie soda!
| contingencies wrote:
| Re-gifting would have likely occurred. Like: obtain bottle,
| pass to your superior, cement next-level promotion.
| smcl wrote:
| Sounds like they loved their _whisky_
| xenospn wrote:
| When I went there (2005-6), we were told to bring foreign
| cigarettes. And this is how I ended up importing Israeli into
| North Korea. Hopefully they liked them!
| derpilderp wrote:
| Sounds like half the embassy hates each other and every one hates
| the British
| everybodyknows wrote:
| Video from inside:
|
| https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/vice-guide-to-north-korea...
| thriftwy wrote:
| https://www.tema.ru/travel/north-korea-1/
|
| Artemy Lebedev, a known Russian web designer, visited North Korea
| and posted his notes with pictures (in Russian, should not be an
| obstacle these days).
|
| There are three more sections with the selector below.
| chgs wrote:
| My favourite NK blog is the trip in 2008 from Austria to North
| Korea via the unexpected route from Russia
|
| https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/10/vienna-pyongya...
| jiggawatts wrote:
| > in Russian, should not be an obstacle these days
|
| It blows my mind a tiny bit every time I translate something
| with GPT-4. It's flawless!
|
| Fascinating article, it explained a few things I didn't get
| before. E.g.: the locals collect grass in bags to feed to
| rabbits.
| snihalani wrote:
| I saw a 504 when I loaded the site but then a reload fixed it.
| Could have been a great meta joke
| wkat4242 wrote:
| For someone who wants to read more in-depth stories about this
| topic I highly recommend the book "Only beautiful, please" by
| John Everard.
|
| He was another British Diplomat (I think he was ambassador even)
| and he often would go on unscheduled biking trips freaking out
| his security escort. Though this was in less tense times, I doubt
| this would be possible in the days of Kim Yung-Un. Anyway, highly
| recommended, really.
| sdf4j wrote:
| Pyongyang [0] by Guy Delisle is an amazing graphic novel
| depicting a foreigner animator living in North Korea. Never get
| tired of it.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang:_A_Journey_in_Nort...
| V__ wrote:
| I'll preface this by saying that I can't support this with a
| source, so take it with a grain of salt. An acquaintance of mine
| knew someone who worked in that German embassy. Apparently, the
| extreme isolation of North Korea also made it extremely difficult
| to have any kind of opsec inside the embassy. Since anything
| could only be brought in through diplomatic pouches it created an
| attack vector of one.
|
| A few days after said person had a meeting in the German
| equivalent of a scif, there was a meeting with North Korean
| officials. One official let something slip, which meant a bug had
| somehow gotten into the scif. He didn't say anything about what
| the consequences were, just that one should not underestimate the
| North Koreans.
| bagels wrote:
| scif = sensitive compartmented information facility
|
| A room that is supposed to be highly secure with secure
| communication channels where it is safe to handle or transmit
| secret information.
| RGamma wrote:
| There's a kajillion ways to extract info via analog hole from a
| well-known room. Unless this room has counter-measures (that
| are unlikely to be accepted by an authoritarian government)
| this ain't surprising really.
| influx wrote:
| Which do you think is more likely, the scif was compromised, or
| one of the people in the scif was?
| V__ wrote:
| He didn't specify whether the scif itself was bugged or they
| planted a bug on someone, just that it wasn't a leak.
| rvba wrote:
| > This gave us the opportunity to overnight in Dandong, sightsee
| and food shop before picking up our serviced vehicle the next day
| and heading back into North Korea
|
| I wonder what spy devices were installed inside the car...
| whizzter wrote:
| Hearing about the lone Swede reminds me of the weird history/role
| of that,
| https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/04/547390622/...
| paganel wrote:
| > fields to harvest kimchi (cabbages), a vital staple in all
| North Korean diets. They would then take the kimchi home and
| pickle it in vast quantities and store it there.
|
| > This kimchi supply would then hopefully get them and their
| families through the long, bitter winter months.
|
| This reminds me that my parents (they live in the South-Eastern
| Romanian countryside) make excellent pickled cabbage, in fact
| eating pickled cabbage is one of my fondest food-related memories
| from the dreaded 1990s (when there wasn't that much food to go
| around on account of lack of money, and we had close to no money
| because of the infamous Shock Therapy).
|
| Very interesting to see how pickled cabbage has been helping
| people go through rough times at the two opposing sides of
| Eurasia (on the Korean peninsula and on the European peninsula).
| jonathanyc wrote:
| Laughed out loud at the unexpected "90/100" rating at the end.
| Very interesting read. Thought this was interesting in
| particular:
|
| > When serving in Iraq or Iran, my biggest fear in those places
| was always the threat of physical harm, be it ambushes on our
| person or vehicles, being kidnapped, rocket or mortar attacks on
| our embassy or accommodation. There were close shaves and the
| threat and the fear never left you in all of these places. > But
| as far as life in North Korea was concerned, there were none of
| these fears. Serving in North Korea gave you this strange feeling
| of being cut off, isolated and very insular and perversely at the
| same time "safe."
|
| I wonder how this compares to living in e.g. Libya under Gaddafi
| vs. after?
| Stratoscope wrote:
| I posted my story a few times about picking up a North Korean
| shortwave broadcast on my car radio while driving to work at
| Adobe in San Jose around 2022. Rather than re-tell it again, here
| it is:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38634348
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