[HN Gopher] Training of Physical Neural Networks
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       Training of Physical Neural Networks
        
       Author : Anon84
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2024-07-10 13:13 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | So it sounds like these PNNs are essentially analog
       | implementations of neural nets? Seems like an odd choice of
       | naming to call them 'physical'.
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | ANN is taken.
        
           | TheLoafOfBread wrote:
           | I mean LoRA was taken too before LoRA became a thing
        
             | tomxor wrote:
             | I don't mean globally, LoRA are at least in different
             | domains. Artificial Neural Networks and Physical Neural
             | Networks are both machine learning, discussion referring to
             | both is highly probable, and the former far more
             | established so it calling it an Analog Neural Network would
             | never last long.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Makes sense as opposed to "abstract." With the constant
         | encoding and decoding that has to be done when things are going
         | in an out of processors and storage (or sensors), digital
         | processes are always in some sense simulations.
        
       | ksd482 wrote:
       | _PNNs resemble neural networks, however at least part of the
       | system is analog rather than digital, meaning that part or all
       | the input /output data is encoded continuously in a physical
       | parameter, and the weights can also be physical, with the
       | ultimate goal of surpassing digital hardware in performance or
       | efficiency._
       | 
       | I am trying to understand what format does a node take in PNNs.
       | Is it a transistor? Or is it more complex than that? Or, is it a
       | combination of a few things such as analog signal and some other
       | sensors which work together to form a single node that looks like
       | the one we are all familiar with?
       | 
       | Can anyone please help me understand what exactly is "physical"
       | about PNNs?
        
         | sigmoid10 wrote:
         | It's just a general idea to implement the computation part of
         | neurons directly in hardware instead of software. For example
         | by calculating sums or products using voltages in circuits,
         | i.e. analog computing. The actual implementation is up to the
         | designer, who in turn will try to mimic a certain architecture.
        
       | Shawnecy wrote:
       | My knowledge in this area is incredibly limited, but I figured
       | the paper would mention NanoWire Networks (NWNs) as an emerging
       | physical neural network[0].
       | 
       | Last year, researchers from the University of Sydney and UCLA
       | used NWNs to demonstrate online learning of handwritten digits
       | with an accuracy of 93%.
       | 
       | [0] = https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42470-5
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | Last time I read about this the main practical difficulty was
       | model transferability.
       | 
       | The very thing that makes it so powerful and efficient is also
       | the thing that make it uncopiable, because sensitivity to tiny
       | physical differences in the devices inevitably gets encoded into
       | the model during training.
       | 
       | It seems intuitive this is an unavoidable, fundamental problem.
       | Maybe that scares away big tech, but I quite like the idea of
       | having invaluable, non-transferable, irreplaceable little
       | devices. Not so easily deprecated by technological advances,
       | flying in the face of consumerism, getting better with age,
       | making people want to hold onto things.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Reminds me of the evolutionary FPGA experiment that was
         | dependent on magnetic flux or something. The same program
         | wouldn't work on a different FPGA.
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | Here's the paper about it: https://www.researchgate.net/publi
           | cation/2737441_An_Evolved_...
           | 
           | And a more approachable article:
           | https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/
        
           | rusticpenn wrote:
           | What thy did was overfitting. We later found other ways of
           | getting around the issue.
        
         | trextrex wrote:
         | Well, the brain is a physical neural network, and evolution
         | seems to have figured out how to generate a (somewhat) copiable
         | model. I bet we could learn a trick or two from biology here.
        
           | tomxor wrote:
           | Some parts are copiable, but not the more abstract things
           | like the human intellect, for lack of a better word.
           | 
           | We are not even born with what you might consider basic
           | mental faculties, for example it might seem absurd, but we
           | have to learn to see... We are born with the "hardware" for
           | it, a visual cortex, an eye, all defined by our genes, but
           | it's actually trained from birth, there is even a feedback
           | loop that causes the retina to physically develop properly.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | They raised some cats from birth in an environment with
             | only vertically-oriented edges, none horizontal. Those cats
             | could not see horizontally-oriented things.
             | https://computervisionblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/cats-
             | and...
             | 
             | Likewise, kittens with an eye patch over an eye in the same
             | time period remain blind in that eye forever.
        
               | tomxor wrote:
               | Wow, that's a horrific way of proving that theory.
        
               | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
               | Geez poor kitties, but that is interesting.
        
             | alexpotato wrote:
             | Another example:
             | 
             | Children who were "raised in the wild" or locked in a room
             | by themselves have shown to be incapable of learning full
             | human language.
             | 
             | The working theory is that our brains can only learn
             | certain skills at certain times of brain development/ages.
        
           | hansworst wrote:
           | The way the brain does it is by giving users a largely
           | untrained model that they themselves have to train over the
           | next 20 years for it to be of any use.
        
         | alexpotato wrote:
         | > Last time I read about this the main practical difficulty was
         | model transferability.
         | 
         | There is a great write up of this in this old blog post:
         | https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/
        
         | robertsdionne wrote:
         | This is "Mortal Computation" coined in Hinton's The Forward-
         | Forward Algorithm: Some Preliminary Investigations
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.13345.
        
       | craigmart wrote:
       | Schools?
        
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