[HN Gopher] Circos - Circular Visualization
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       Circos - Circular Visualization
        
       Author : smartmic
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2024-07-09 11:44 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (circos.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (circos.ca)
        
       | inciampati wrote:
       | It's a nice visualization system when you have a lot of very long
       | one-dimensional things with nonlinear relationships. This is
       | super common in genomics but in principle could be applied many
       | places.
       | 
       | That said, circos plots are sort of cliche in genomics and I do
       | see people tending to move away from them.
       | 
       | It suffers from an effect of having too many things all together,
       | all at once, layered in ways that sometimes make it difficult to
       | compare. This is especially true when you have data tracks that
       | are circularly laid out around the plot.
        
         | aorth wrote:
         | Came to say something similar. I've been installing and
         | updating Circos on our HPC cluster for bioinformatics users for
         | over ten years. It was really popular in the early and mid
         | 2010s!
        
         | mbreese wrote:
         | I have used circos plots many times in the past (genomics).
         | They make for very pretty figures. But, like you said, the
         | major problem with them is that they are difficult to
         | accurately interpret. They are used often to compare whole
         | genome rearrangements, but the resolution has to be reduced to
         | so much that you just can't use them quantitatively. They are
         | useful for qualitative comparisons, but it really suffers when
         | you need to show details.
        
         | a_bonobo wrote:
         | Yes, but they are pretty.
         | 
         | Case in point: the maize genome Circos plot popped up in
         | Jurassic World, they just overlayed an image of a Triceratops
         | https://circos.ca/images/mastheads/
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | Yep, if you want to compare clusters from sample A with
         | clusters from sample B, then it's just easier to use a sankey
         | diagram, especially for time-series data.
        
       | lbeltrame wrote:
       | I don't get the fad with circos plots. At least in genomics, they
       | offer a high density of information but unfortunately at the
       | price of hard if not impossible interpretation. Like the systems
       | biology papers of old, showing beautiful dense graphs, but with
       | little room for biological interpretation. In addition, circos is
       | quite... peculiar as an application, in particular its quirky
       | configuration file format, which is half ini like and half XML or
       | HTML like. Last I looked at it, about a decade ago, there weren't
       | any APIs to create plots programmatically.
        
       | munificent wrote:
       | I've seen these circular plots a number of times and I've never
       | once found them to illuminate the underlying data, even a little
       | bit.
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | Maybe it is because you need to become used to them? I do not
         | find them informative either.
        
         | risenshinetech wrote:
         | I came here to say the same thing. What insight do these
         | diagrams provide? They always struck me as a useless but flashy
         | visualization that you would put in front of your company to
         | make people believe Important Work is happening inside.
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | I really struggle to understand most of the diagrams on this page
       | without context. I suspect it's a lot more useful if you spend
       | time swapping in the overall context of a diagram, after which
       | you can visually pattern match. Without context, it's just pretty
       | noise to me, IMO.
        
       | zazaulola wrote:
       | These charts remind me of astrologers' natal charts.
        
       | cedricbonhomme wrote:
       | I used Circos quite a lot back in time. It's written in Perl. I
       | was working on a Python visualization tool for analyzing the
       | relationships between different IP, from network traffic capture:
       | 
       | https://github.com/cedricbonhomme/IP-Link
       | 
       | (there is a link to the documentation with some nice chord
       | diagrams.) This one is quite impressive:
       | https://github.com/cedricbonhomme/IP-Link/blob/master/docs/_...
       | nut not easy to read !
        
       | robbles wrote:
       | Doesn't this suffer from similar issues to a pie chart?
       | 
       | e.g. https://scc.ms.unimelb.edu.au/resources/data-
       | visualisation-a...
       | 
       | I'm kinda suspicious that any data visualization that uses a
       | circle is going to be hard to draw meaning from.
        
         | ma2t wrote:
         | Yes and no. When trying to show quantitative data in terms of
         | areas or angles, then you are spot-on: same issues. But these
         | plots, or chord diagrams more generally, are often used to show
         | relationships (like translocations, inversions or duplications
         | in genomes) in context of other landmarks. This use is common
         | and less troublesome. A real problem with Circos plots is that
         | it's so tempting to keep adding additional tracks of
         | "information" that plots get ridiculous. It becomes like
         | staring at the Voynich manuscript: uninterpretable but so
         | compellingly pretty it must mean _something_.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Are pie charts bad or just misused?
         | 
         | They aren't good at measuring small quantities. But it is easy
         | to see 1/4 or 1/2 of a circle. And it is easy to see if
         | something is a straight line, 90 degree, or a little more or
         | less than either of those.
         | 
         | Compared to a bar graph, it seems a little easier to spot that
         | one quantity is, like, half of another. And it is easier to
         | visually sum of a collection of quantities, on a bar graph this
         | is a major pain (unless it is stacked of course but that's
         | another type of graph).
        
       | Vaslo wrote:
       | Just feels like an overloaded chart where you can pick out maybe
       | one to two patterns that are useful, similar to a pie chart
       | showing maybe one to two chunks that overwhelm.
        
       | dangets wrote:
       | These types of graphs are also possible using D3.js. The "Chord
       | diagam II" example references Circos implementation -
       | https://observablehq.com/@d3/chord-diagram/2?intent=fork
        
       | diekhans wrote:
       | Circos is useful when the data is sparse and quickly becomes
       | extremely time-consuming to near-impossible to interpret. The
       | most you can say is "wow, there is a lot going on".
       | 
       | I know in five seconds if a Circos plot is worth looking at.
        
       | photonthug wrote:
       | The same guy apparently made https://hiveplot.com/
        
         | runlaszlorun wrote:
         | Interesting link. I can't speak to the informational value of
         | those hiveplot charts, but an interesting piece from the author
         | on the merits of different network visualization approaches.
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | This is highly relevant to my interests, thanks
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Longtime fan of this project. Genomics is where the interesting
       | UI design in science is at, and it's quite useful for others
       | things outside of genomics. Most dashboards are garbage by
       | comparison.
        
       | breck wrote:
       | Interesting.
       | 
       | Does anyone have a link to a particularly amazing circos chart
       | that demonstrates the kind of story that it is best at conveying?
        
       | sumnole wrote:
       | One of my favorite circular data viz plots is the polar diagram.
       | It's a simple plot but leads to some pretty aesthetic and easy to
       | read results.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | radial dendrograms are great for looking at differences between
       | clusters of relationships in trees. thanks for this tool, making
       | viz tools accessible will refine their use cases. one of the
       | challenges with viz is matching the message with the viewer.
       | 
       | re some of the viz comments here, most sankey diagrams can be pie
       | charts (any one with less than a few nested categories) and most
       | people who make pie charts don't reason about trees so all the
       | junk sankey diagrams that flooded in after the birthday party
       | chart aren't a reflection of their use or value.
       | 
       | messages I've used viz for in the past were to solve problems
       | like:
       | 
       | - these things are similar and different (heatmap)
       | 
       | - this is a bounded domain (digraph/ontology)
       | 
       | - these things are related, but only relative to these other
       | things (graph clusters, radial/linear network diagram,
       | boxes+lines/nested boxes)
       | 
       | - the complexity is more here than there (graph clusters)
       | 
       | - the taxonomy hides an inconsistency or gap (sankey diagrams)
       | 
       | - either everybody sees this or nobody does (graph clusters)
       | 
       | - these variations cause combinatoric explosion (sankey diagram)
       | 
       | - this is a hierarchy (dendrogram, radial dendrogram)
       | 
       | - these are categories of things (dendrogram, radial dendrogram)
       | 
       | - these things are the same (heatmap)
       | 
       | - start with these to have the most effect on those (cluster
       | graph)
       | 
       | - solutions are in the form of this grammar (sankey diagram)
       | 
       | - these things happen in order (state machine/flow chart, gantt
       | chart)
       | 
       | - these things happen together (gantt chart)
       | 
       | The statements may seem naive, but when you're working on a viz,
       | you have to think about who it is for and whether it is the right
       | representation and whether the message is valuable. I've made a
       | lot of viz mistakes and they came down to not framing one of
       | these messages correctly or misunderstanding how telling someone
       | this would make them feel. the radial diagrams are pretty, and
       | very useful for showing contrast between patterns and density of
       | relationships.
        
       | Uehreka wrote:
       | This looks neat, but as a dataviz person who works on the web, my
       | first question (which I couldn't find an answer to, though I was
       | skimming) is why would I use a special-purpose tool for these
       | kinds of charts when D3 already supports these kinds of charts
       | pretty thoroughly, allows me to update data in realtime and
       | supports animation. Plus D3 can render to either SVG or canvas,
       | it even supports offline rendering for creating vector-based
       | charts for print purposes.
        
         | Blahah wrote:
         | Circos.js uses d3 and works great with other things in the
         | ecosystem. You customise it with idiomatic d3.
        
         | dolmen wrote:
         | The Circos authors invented those charts. D3 got another
         | implementation later.
         | 
         | https://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2009/06/15/gr.092759....
        
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       (page generated 2024-07-10 23:01 UTC)