[HN Gopher] Family fight Samsung over fridge odour they say caus...
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       Family fight Samsung over fridge odour they say caused dizziness
       and memory loss
        
       Author : phs318u
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2024-07-09 21:23 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.abc.net.au)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.abc.net.au)
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | > "As a consumer advocate, it's rare to see deeds of release with
       | gag clauses -- which is what this is."
       | 
       | I guess that offer is no longer valid since the fight hit the
       | news. I wonder if we'll see more and more of these attempts to
       | silence customers, as 1. companies get bigger and more powerful,
       | and 2. regular people's ability to broadcast company wrongdoing
       | over social media grows.
        
       | glzone1 wrote:
       | Some context.
       | 
       | Refrigerator was 4 years old and out of stated warranty period
       | 
       | Refrigerator not sold to them by samsung or installed by samsung
       | but by another party ("JB Hi-Fi").
       | 
       | Despite being out of warranty, family offered a refund - they
       | declined it. An expert has called Samsungs behavior "concerning
       | and unfair".
       | 
       | Notes:
       | 
       | Plenty of folks ignore almost all maintenance steps (cleaning
       | coils, filter changes etc). Pulling the covers and looking around
       | and cleaning even 1x per year would help longevity and catch
       | problems earlier in many cases.
       | 
       | Having purchased appliances both personally and for a business -
       | first call is usually to the store that sold us the item. These
       | things are the one thing we get an extended warranty on.
       | 
       | The installers are absolutely not licensed plumbers or
       | electricians! I wouldn't be surprised if a fair bit of damage is
       | caused just in getting these items to their locations and
       | installed. They are heavy and awkward.
       | 
       | Ask the repair tech who comes for first repair what most common
       | issue is they are repairing - they often know right away (because
       | they stock the parts etc etc). Some are avoidable / manageable.
        
         | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
         | The issue here isn't the cost of the fridge, it's the health
         | impact. Declining a mere refund (that almost certainly comes
         | with a waiver on other claims in addition to the gag clause) is
         | the only reasonable thing to do, and I doubt that being out of
         | warranty absolves Samsung from liability if they sold a
         | dangerous product.
        
           | ars wrote:
           | How do you know there's a health impact, or that this is a
           | dangerous product?
           | 
           | The article has nothing supporting either of those claims in
           | it.
           | 
           | The oil they use in refrigerators stinks to high heaven, and
           | that's about it. "POE that has been exposed to moisture can
           | emit a strong odor which I would say is closer to dirty
           | socks".
        
             | throwaway346434 wrote:
             | https://www.mountsinai.org/health-
             | library/poison/refrigerant...
        
               | ars wrote:
               | Those symptoms are mixing refrigerants, fumigants, and
               | the frostbite from refrigerants expanding.
               | 
               | It means nothing in the context of this article. The
               | refrigerant at hand here is R-134a and has zero health
               | risks, in fact it's used in inhalers.
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | > the company wasn't able to tell him what the chemical was
             | or whether it could be harmful.
             | 
             | Odd how you are confident that you know what the chemical
             | is when the company that manufactured the product doesn't.
             | 
             | And you don't need to know that there's a health impact to
             | decline this settlement, you need to not know that there
             | isn't. If there's even a small risk it's an extremely
             | lowball offer. Especially given that according to another
             | commenter here Australian law likely entitles them to that
             | much _without the NDA and release of liability_.
        
           | zihotki wrote:
           | The health impact they may have inflicted themselves when
           | they went to take out the food.
           | 
           | If there is a chemical smell - open all windows, ventilate
           | the room and STAY AWAY. That's a very basic and simple rule.
        
         | stemlord wrote:
         | The whole article is about the lack of transparency on a
         | situation involving a product Samsung designed which may or may
         | not have serious health consequences, not about return policies
        
           | glzone1 wrote:
           | Is Samsung not using R-134a or R600a for refrigerant? This
           | usually depends on market and regulations.
        
         | throwaway346434 wrote:
         | Australian consumer law means you generally don't need to
         | bother with the "extended warranty" scam:
         | https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advic...
         | 
         | A fridge has to be of acceptable quality, safe, and one of the
         | tests applied is durability - how long would an average
         | consumer expect the product to last?
         | 
         | Fridges are commonly expected to last 6-12 years (ATO, consumer
         | group advice)
        
           | astrec wrote:
           | Correct. Strictly speaking Australian consumers don't really
           | need a warranty, which is a voluntary undertaking by a
           | business to guarantee certain rights, unless that warranty
           | exceeds those guarantees provided for in Australian consumer
           | law. In this case the family is automatically entitled to
           | repair, replacement, refund or cancellation for a reasonable
           | time, where "reasonable" depends on the product or service as
           | determined by the ACCC or the courts.
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | This is a safety issue, warranty is not relevant.
         | 
         | Samsung also recalled a huge number of out of warranty phones
         | due to significant safety risk of bad batteries. This should be
         | investigated as a safety issue.
        
       | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
       | This sounds pretty concerning: "Samsung's own compliance tool,
       | used by retailers to check that stock complies with Australian
       | standards, lists the model as being one that should be
       | prioritised for sale because it could be non-compliant."
       | 
       | I think Australia has somewhat working consumer protection
       | agencies, and if this is true (Samsung knowingly selling non-
       | compliant products, and trying to sell them faster to make sure
       | they're all sold before the non-compliance is discovered), I hope
       | the sanctions are something truly discouraging (e.g. a fine
       | corresponding to all revenue from sales of that model).
        
         | ars wrote:
         | It's not likely as sinister as you make it out to be, I could
         | not find out what "A2 regulation in June 2020" means, but I
         | suspect they are phasing out older refrigerants, but allowing
         | sale of existing stock.
         | 
         | For example cars need to switch from r134A as of 2022, but
         | before that it's fine, and home A/C's need to switch from R410a
         | as of the end of this year, but they can sell existing stock
         | for another year.
         | 
         | So prioritizing for sale makes perfect sense, and doesn't
         | indicate anything nefarious, just selling out of old stock,
         | exactly as the law is suggesting.
         | 
         | Edit: I'm virtually certain this is R-134a being phased out in
         | Australia in June of 2020. And I figured out A1 and A2 which
         | are flammability ratings of refrigerants. With R-134a being A1,
         | and the new ones being slightly more flammable and are rated as
         | A2.
        
       | avsteele wrote:
       | Hmm...                   "I explained to the poisons hotline it
       | wasn't just refrigerant, it was something more sinister," she
       | said.
       | 
       | How would she know? Probably something electronic burnt out. Then
       | the wife had a panic attack from over worry.
       | 
       | Article is interesting because of the non-disclosure clause
       | stuff. Which, while not totally surprising I guess, is pretty
       | scummy.
        
         | gpm wrote:
         | Well,
         | 
         | > "The [refrigerant] doesn't have a strong odour or flavour so
         | the fact they could smell it, taste it, suggests there's
         | something else that's been released," Professor Anderson said.
        
           | avsteele wrote:
           | That professor's statement was pretty silly.
           | 
           | Burning electronics does have a strong, distinct odor. If
           | they are unfamiliar with that, its totally plausible that's
           | all that they smelled.
           | 
           | Refrigerators are a few PCBs, a heat pump, a closed loop
           | refrigerant, and a cooler. There really isn't anything
           | especially exotic there.
        
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