[HN Gopher] Don't use 7-segment displays (2011) [pdf]
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Don't use 7-segment displays (2011) [pdf]
        
       Author : fanf2
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2024-07-09 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (harold.thimbleby.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (harold.thimbleby.net)
        
       | anotherhue wrote:
       | I suppose, but an analogue clock can be misread if held upside-
       | down also, so what's the permitted degree of operator error?
       | Depends on the consequence & domain I suppose.
        
         | kennywinker wrote:
         | Only if it doesn't have the indicator numbers. I think most
         | people would notice if the 6 was at the top and the 12 was at
         | the bottom.
        
           | jtriangle wrote:
           | Ultimately, this is trying to solve a human problem with
           | tech, which is rarely a solution. If a display has garbage
           | data on it because it's broken, the untrained person trying
           | to read it is going to misread it regardless of the failure
           | mode.
           | 
           | That and you can make 7-segment displays fault tolerant, ie,
           | detecting when segments are out/partially out, because you
           | can measure current draw. Not exactly difficult, also not
           | exactly common because they don't really fail that often.
        
       | a2800276 wrote:
       | The publication date is unclear, but the latest citation is 2011.
       | It doesn't make economic sense anymore to use seven segment
       | displays in new products, small TFT/LCD and even OLEDs are
       | cheaper.
       | 
       | It probably does make sense to use them with legacy equipment
       | that require a large certification effort (most of the examples
       | are medical).
       | 
       | The advice the author gives for situations where seven segment
       | displays are used is good, though.
       | 
       | What really doesn't make sense is using a seven segment font on a
       | high resolution device to make the product seem more
       | technological, I guess, but I don't think that was mentioned.
        
         | gray_-_wolf wrote:
         | > It doesn't make economic sense anymore to use seven segment
         | displays in new products, small TFT/LCD and even OLEDs are
         | cheaper.
         | 
         | Maybe cheaper, but what about power consumption? I would have
         | expected them to need significantly more, which might matter
         | for battery-powered devices.
        
           | mytailorisrich wrote:
           | I suspect that simple LCD displays have the lowest power
           | consumption (see wristwatches, etc).
        
             | xxs wrote:
             | They are not even remotely comparable when it comes to
             | readability/contrast.
        
           | hoherd wrote:
           | For that we have Memory LCD
           | https://www.adafruit.com/product/3502
        
             | jonny_eh wrote:
             | How do those compare on price though?
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Well that one's from Adafruit, so probably 10x the price
               | of what's commonly sold.
        
             | nebula8804 wrote:
             | While this display is really slick, it seems like it is
             | still not available under multiple suppliers? If thats the
             | case. that means its going to be more pricey than other
             | options. I cant seem to find many cheap options on
             | alibaba/aliexpress.
        
               | ClassyJacket wrote:
               | Apparently Sharp introduced the technology in 2009, so
               | perhaps there's a patent expiring soon?
        
           | outworlder wrote:
           | > Maybe cheaper, but what about power consumption? I would
           | have expected them to need significantly more, which might
           | matter for battery-powered devices.
           | 
           | Seven segment displays are quite power hungry relative to
           | what information they can display. LCDs sip power, the issue
           | is their backlight.
        
             | bobmcnamara wrote:
             | Seven segment is a pixel layout.
             | 
             | LCD/LED are pixel types.
             | 
             | Seven segment LCDs are super low power, and can be made to
             | reflect through ambient lighting.
        
               | olyjohn wrote:
               | Like how my calculator runs off of the the tiny solar
               | panel that is built in and is powered by ambient light in
               | the room.
        
               | gedy wrote:
               | I think some folks might be thinking of the older light-
               | emitting 7 segment displays which used more power.
        
         | eschneider wrote:
         | Ah, but 7-segment displays are far easier to drive from a
         | microcontroller, so even if an LCD is cheaper, it might make
         | for a more expensive system.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Depends. I2C only takes two I/O pins.
        
             | samtho wrote:
             | That's only part of the equation. Grid displays require a
             | lot more memory and often power to drive. By contrast, a
             | seven segment display requires 7 (or 8) LEDs and 8 bits per
             | digit on the output stage, 4 bit in BCD, which can be fed
             | via a shift register.
        
               | dfox wrote:
               | Almost any other display that you will reasonably use in
               | a application that makes sense for segmented multiplexed
               | LEDs will integrate internal controller, so instead of
               | having to refresh the thing somehow you have a thing that
               | is simply an peripheral hanging of some or other bus that
               | just does its thing. And well, such things tend to be
               | cheaper than seven segment LEDs (there is a reason why
               | random almost disposable crap has graphical monochrome
               | OLED panels)
        
             | petsfed wrote:
             | Granted, but as a sibling states, the other factor is
             | firmware complexity. I can theoretically drive a high-
             | resolution display on an 8-bit micro (although it may
             | require with some clever bit banging to get I2C to work at
             | all) but its trivial with a 7-segment display.
             | 
             | And as a bonus, you don't have to involve anymore UI/UX
             | design than to answer the question "what number should go
             | here?"
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | It'll be microcontroller equivalent of running full
               | GNU/Linux to control an Internet of e-waste tea kettle,
               | but CH32V003 + SSD1306 OLED + passives takes less than 10
               | parts total, no crystals needed, has plenty sample codes
               | online, and costs ~$2 combined. Depending on the price of
               | the final product, it could make financial or product
               | design sense.
        
               | petsfed wrote:
               | In a medical or aerospace application, that added
               | firmware complexity could be a non-starter. Not from a
               | price, or even e-waste standpoint. Its that proving the
               | thing is safe is a lot harder when its complex. That's
               | the real point of keeping it dumb.
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | Also i don't entirely understand the LCD vs 7-segment
           | comparision. In my mind many (perhaps most?) 7 segment
           | displays use LCD technology.
           | 
           | Are we comparing here pixel-matrix LCD screens with 7-segment
           | screens?
        
             | throwway120385 wrote:
             | Some 7-segment displays are vacuum-fluorescent rather than
             | LCD. These displays are significantly brighter.
        
             | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
             | Legacy 7-segment displays use LEDs. Specifically, one LED
             | per segment. The LCD version arose when the power
             | consumption of the LED-based ones was an issue.
        
             | ClassyJacket wrote:
             | You're correct. 7-segment is a display layout, not
             | technology - I think it's implied they mean pixel matrix vs
             | 7 segment.
        
           | ChickeNES wrote:
           | I'm not convinced that matters much in 2024, especially when
           | this article singles out safety critical systems. Such
           | systems are likely to be fairly expensive to being with, so
           | the marginal cost of adding a display would be minuscule
           | compared to testing and regulatory costs (not to mention the
           | increase in fault tolerance versus a failed segment causing
           | an incorrect reading).
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | A cracked LCD screen also makes the display unreadable.
             | There are all sorts of ways for anything to fail, so
             | calling out one failure method of one thing while ignoring
             | similar failures for the device being compared comes across
             | as very short sighted
        
               | yobert wrote:
               | Yes but a cracked LCD is much more obvious than a single
               | LED segment burning out. Also usually physical damage is
               | required to crack an LCD, where as LEDs can burn out
               | (albeit rarely)
        
               | nebula8804 wrote:
               | The thing I hate about low cost LCD displays is that
               | terrible motion blur when you have changing or scrolling
               | text. It just screams cheap in my mind. 7 segment never
               | had that problem.
        
           | lelanthran wrote:
           | > Ah, but 7-segment displays are far easier to drive from a
           | microcontroller, so even if an LCD is cheaper, it might make
           | for a more expensive system.
           | 
           | It's not all about economics either; I can read a 7-seg
           | display from clear across a factory floor from almost any
           | angle _in the dark_.
           | 
           | Try reading those low-cost LCDs in the same conditions (the
           | dark is worse, because the LCD doesn't have a true black so
           | the contrast is lower).
        
             | jwells89 wrote:
             | Which is why standalone digital clocks generally still use
             | them instead of LCDs, and why I'd like to build a 7-segment
             | clock at some point. That condition-agnostic readability is
             | hard to beat.
        
               | dfox wrote:
               | The reason why most standalone digital clocks use LED
               | seven segment displays is that to this day almost all of
               | them are built around the same weird PMOS Sanyo ASIC from
               | late 1970's.
        
             | xxs wrote:
             | OLED suggestion is even worse due to lack of longevity,
             | burn-in.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | > I can read a 7-seg display from clear across a factory
             | floor from almost any angle in the dark.
             | 
             | Ironically, this is true at lower power/brightness than
             | higher. A few gas stations near me got newer super-bright
             | displays and you can no longer make them out at a distance.
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | > I can read a 7-seg display from clear across a factory
             | floor from almost any angle in the dark
             | 
             | Is it dark when you are on your factory floor? And what is
             | it that you need to read across the factory floor?
        
           | northwest65 wrote:
           | I'm not a professional, but I find an LCD or OLED is a lot
           | easier to drive from a microcontroller than a 7 segment or 4.
           | Like a hell of a lot easier.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | I can produce 3 inch or smaller segment displays for 30 cents a
         | pop with up to 50 segments. At a MOQ of just 10k
         | 
         | You can't touch that with TFT/LCDs. Not to mention the current
         | consumption of a segment LCD display is measured in microamps.
         | 
         | And the micros that drive segment LCD displays can easily be
         | sub dollar.
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | Durability and failure modes are also better with segment
           | displays, which is why you still see them in military or
           | aviation applications.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | >small TFT/LCD and even OLEDs are cheaper.
         | 
         | How can that be true?
        
           | rvbissell wrote:
           | My guess is: economies of scale, in 2024 (vs say, 1990)
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | I had considered that maybe new 7-segment displays aren't
             | being made, so maybe they cost more for that reason, but
             | even that doesn't seem like it'd be true.
        
           | pclmulqdq wrote:
           | If you look at distributor single-unit quantities, they are
           | close in cost. If you look at hobbyist stores, they are the
           | same price (or more expensive for the seven-segment version).
           | 
           | If you ask a factory in China to make you 1 million displays,
           | the seven-segment version will be a lot cheaper. That's why
           | new products use them. Even at 1k quantity from distributors,
           | seven-segment displays are substantially cheaper.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Some Chinese display manufacturers are dumping lots of small,
           | easy to use, postage stamp sized monochrome blue-white OLED
           | at ~$1.5 apiece from 1 unit with free shipping, which had
           | made it a viable replacement for 7-segments, couple power
           | LEDs, even decorative logo displays, for small scale
           | productions. It's not the case at all for real mass produced
           | products, but not everyone is delivering thousands of units
           | per month to Walmart.
           | 
           | I personally don't necessarily support "just go graphical"
           | sentiment, but such local minima do exist.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | Seems like many suppliers are coalescing on certain
         | sizes/designs of OLEDs at the low end. All I see are these tiny
         | blue/white displays or 1 inch full color. They all look the
         | same and are boring at this point. I was hoping that we would
         | get an explosion of different OLED display sizes and designs.
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | LCD is much harder to reader, and a lot more complex to drive.
         | Vibration wise I'd take potted 7-segment display as well.
         | Single color is a benefit.
         | 
         | OLED would have much shorter life, along with burn in - 7
         | segment ones tend to display very static info in many cases.
        
       | Rhapso wrote:
       | "Just use a high resolution display" doesn't seem like the corect
       | remedy.
       | 
       | Next cheapest would be a low resolution LCD display, (30x80) that
       | has its own set of issues. 7 segments at minimum provide for high
       | visibility even if they fail at high readability.
       | 
       | note: price doesn't have to be money, complexity is expensive
       | 
       | Why isn't there a market for 14-segment displays or other simple
       | alphanumeric displays?
       | 
       | edit: Childen comments use the phrase "for a few more $" a lot
       | and i think they miss the point that if that was acceptable and
       | easy we wouldn't be talking about it.
        
         | maxwell wrote:
         | There is: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18566
        
           | Kon-Peki wrote:
           | That display is really hard to read.
           | 
           | I would say that if you're going to use a 7-segment display,
           | it would be helpful to add a "test/diagnostic" button that
           | does a pattern in which all segments are lit up in a
           | predictable order, does a TOP pattern in which only the top
           | segments are lit (to allow for device orientation), and then
           | goes back to displaying exactly what was on the display prior
           | to pressing the button.
        
             | crote wrote:
             | > That display is really hard to read.
             | 
             | Most of that is just due to a lack of contrast. Add a
             | slightly-tinted window in front of it to reduce the
             | contrast between unlit segment & background, and it becomes
             | a lot easier to read.
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | 16-segment displays are another longtime standard
         | configuration.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen-segment_display
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The market is flooded with 128x64 1.3" or 0.96" OLED displays.
         | You can pick them up for anywhere from $1-$5, probably less if
         | you bulk order.
         | 
         | Sure, they bring some complexity. Instead of just driving some
         | pins you now need a display library and at least some bitmap
         | font. But they provide a lot more fidelity, are vastly more
         | readable, and fail in more obvious ways without needing
         | periodic test patterns (the flashing 8's or snakes mentioned in
         | the paper so you can detect failed segments)
         | 
         | For larger displays the choice becomes more interesting between
         | OLED, LED matrices or 16 segment displays, but for small
         | devices like those shown in the paper cheap OLEDs make the
         | choice easy
        
           | andylynch wrote:
           | They are cheap enough now, that they are appearing on
           | disposable vapes (?!)
        
           | s800 wrote:
           | They also wear out quite quickly.
        
           | Rhapso wrote:
           | "display library"
           | 
           | bold of you to assume i have enough memory to drive the
           | thing.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | The most common models of small OLED displays (SSD1306,
             | etc) have a (write-only) framebuffer in the display
             | controller, and can be written to incrementally. If you
             | structure your visual interface with certain simple
             | constraints in mind, you can update it without using any
             | additional dynamic memory.
        
               | Rhapso wrote:
               | That would probably be 100x more complicated than the
               | actual business logic on a small microcontroller and
               | there are limits to program memory for the "streaming
               | this string to the screen by constantly computing if a
               | given pixel is on one at a time" algorithm.
               | 
               | edit addendum; If it was using a 7-segment display, it is
               | either really cheap or really simple "a graphical GUI on
               | a screen" IS NOT A REASONABLE NEXT STEP.
               | 
               | I think we have radically different expectations of a
               | simple embedded system.
        
               | jenadine wrote:
               | You can get something like a rp2040 for a couple of $.
               | And let a graphic library do the hard work. Eg
               | https://slint.dev/blog/porting-slint-to-microcontrollers
        
               | nick238 wrote:
               | RP2040 should cost $0.70 in some quantity
               | (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/raspberry-
               | pi/SC09...) and in low-quantity it's $1 from places like
               | CanaKit. That's actually shockingly cheap for an ARM
               | Cortex M0; I was assuming your ATmegas and PIC18s with a
               | similar pin count (40, 48, 64) would be a bit cheaper,
               | but they seem to be around $2-4 in similar low-production
               | quantity. Power efficiency won't be anywhere near as good
               | with the ARM part, but if you're making a battery-powered
               | device, you might be able to use the extra dollar or so
               | to make it rechargable, then people care a bit less if it
               | eats batteries.
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | > That would probably be 100x more complicated than the
               | actual business logic on a small microcontroller
               | 
               | It really isn't. I've implemented simple UIs on SSD1306
               | displays, and it's very easy to work with. The hardware
               | is specifically set up to optimize for rows of 8px tall
               | text (or multiples of that with a bit more effort). Once
               | you have row/column addresses set up, each byte you write
               | to the display writes one 8px column of pixels to a row
               | and moves the column pointer over by a pixel. Printing
               | text is a matter of streaming a sequence of bytes to the
               | display.
        
           | smaudet wrote:
           | > The market is flooded
           | 
           | Yes, I'd also like to note, the market is flooded with crap.
           | Multiple devices I've owned with these "cheap" displays have
           | been on crappy, battery-intensive devices. The devices with
           | simpler segment (or dot matrix) displays last longer and work
           | better.
           | 
           | I get some of the points where extreme legibility trumps
           | (nearly) all other concerns, however I'd propose the issue
           | could have been solved more simply with more specialized
           | segment displays.
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | Dot-matrix LED display panels seem bulletproof, but I just
             | checked the catalog for the 5x7 display driver I know and
             | use and it costs $30 per. I guess the people who have
             | reliability and legibility concerns like those expressed in
             | the article aren't worried about spending $15 per digit.
        
               | Rhapso wrote:
               | I think the point would be, you don't need a driver, you
               | need a decoder. Those are very cheap.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | Agreed. "Just use a pixel matrix display" sounds an awful lot
         | like, "Just use an Arduino."
         | 
         | There are plenty of places where a simple and small
         | microcontroller paired with a 4-digit segment display is the
         | cheapest, simplest, and most defensible design decision.
        
           | Rhapso wrote:
           | It appears we live in a universe where embedded systems
           | aren't assumed to be a mission critical device by default.
           | 
           | I'm not going to bother using a microcontroller to solve a
           | problem if isn't a use case where the solution needs to be as
           | simple and robust as possible.
        
         | TN1ck wrote:
         | Some subways have 111 segmented displays, I really like them,
         | the refresh rate is stunning. Here is a page selling them [0]
         | and here is how they look [1], [2].
         | 
         | [0]
         | http://www.reitberger.de/English/Large%20displays/Alphanumer...
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/6zsezx/thi...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/e19uaz/wha...
        
       | fitsumbelay wrote:
       | I spent entirely two much time battling the two column layout and
       | the page-splits. It felt like irony but it probably wasn't.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | That's sadly all scientific papers. It makes a lot of sense on
         | a printed page, and possibly on a vertical (portrait) monitor,
         | but rarely on a 16:9 laptop screen or phone.
        
           | _Microft wrote:
           | Isn't it rather sad that all screens seem to be purely
           | optimized for video consumption today? Even on devices that
           | are meant for work?
        
             | ChickeNES wrote:
             | Not really? If anything, widescreen is better for working
             | since it's nicer when you put two windows side-by-side
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | "... For Critical Applications" is the missing second part of the
       | headline. Where critical applications are basically anything
       | involving healthcare, piloting, or safety. I don't fully agree
       | with all of the arguments presented in the article, but I feel
       | like a lot of commentors here are going to miss that.
        
         | zzo38computer wrote:
         | I don't fully agree either, but some of them make sense. But,
         | some of them do make enough sense for some kind of critical
         | applications, that it is worth to consider the alternatives
         | (although power usage should also be considered).
         | 
         | As items (iii) (although it incorrectly says "(ii)") and (iv)
         | of the caption of figure 1, are reasonable considerations.
         | 
         | There is also the consideration of faulty displays, in case a
         | segment stops working (although you can mitigate this problem
         | somewhat, by adding a test switch to light up all of the
         | segments).
         | 
         | About decimals, one possibility (depending on the application)
         | is to require a fixed position for the decimal point and add a
         | wider gap between the digits at that position, which improves
         | the clarity.
         | 
         | They also mention, "the user cannot see the difference between
         | entering zero, or entering zero then decimal point". This is a
         | problem on many hand-held calculators but it is easy to avoid,
         | by not displaying the decimal point unless it has been entered
         | explicitly (or if the result is being displayed).
         | 
         | Upsidedown (also mentioned in the article) is also a reasonable
         | consideration, although there are ways to mitigate that too.
        
           | throwway120385 wrote:
           | In the event that you need to test the display, you should
           | just periodically light up all the segments briefly.
        
             | pclmulqdq wrote:
             | This happens on startup for many critical systems. They
             | turn every segment on and they turn every segment off.
        
               | 1-more wrote:
               | Cars, famously.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | Yeah, almost everyone has seen this self-test happen
               | before, but most people don't realize that is what's
               | happening.
        
             | jtriangle wrote:
             | Usually when these displays initialize they turn on every
             | segment before displaying data for that reason.
             | 
             | Also, fairly trivial to detect if a display has a segment
             | out and throw a fault if needed. It's also not likely you
             | burn out a whole segment at once if you have it wired up
             | with that in mind.
        
           | crote wrote:
           | If anything, 7-segment displays are _better_ when it comes to
           | partial failure, as it 's reasonably easy to add self-test
           | functionality which measures the current passing through a
           | supposed-to-be-lit / supposed-to-be-off segment.
           | 
           | This would allow for failure detection without the user
           | having to explicitly press a test button and look for any
           | misbehaving segments. You can't do this as easily (if at all)
           | with LCD or OLED.
        
         | neuralRiot wrote:
         | > , obviously examination of cost and design trade-offs may
         | lead to other decisions, and such decisions should be backed by
         | competent empirical evaluation.
         | 
         | It's almost like that is what electronic design means, creating
         | a curcuit that works is perhaps the easiest part. Choosing all
         | the parameters for the parts to be used and keeping it under
         | the target cost is the hardest!
        
       | proee wrote:
       | I have a love of electro-mechanical seven-segment displays. For
       | scoreboards and timers, I feel like these are less intrusive than
       | modern electronic display scoreboards.
       | 
       | There is something magical about seeing the score "flip" when a
       | point is scored.
        
         | lstodd wrote:
         | I also like VFD displays. There is something magical in all
         | that green glow.
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | There's definitely a certain style with VFDs that I'm a
           | little surprised hasn't been adopted by people looking for a
           | retro/cyberpunk aesthetic. I was looking into them when it
           | seemed my decades old alarm clock might need a replacement,
           | and they seem quite rare which I assume the economies aren't
           | there in making something more complex and delicate.
           | Interestingly there's a few clocks repurposing cooker
           | displays, I'd guess a manufacturer had a large stockpile of
           | displays for models they discontinued early and liquidated
           | them.
        
       | elijahbenizzy wrote:
       | The title display is very clever but I really wonder if it would
       | have as much of a punch if they displayed that one extra line on
       | the "m"
        
       | 486sx33 wrote:
       | One very nice thing, dependent on use case of course, is that 7
       | segment displays are very simple to wire up and use. They can be
       | easily used for analog circuits, without any digital micros at
       | all if needed.
       | 
       | You can just grab all the pins to say 8 and wire them to vcc and
       | it works. They are just led lights, arranged a particular way
       | 
       | You can even drive them with something like a 555 timer or other
       | 74 series ICs if needed to make basic and very robust monitoring
       | systems. They are very tough, can't easily break or be destroyed
       | by heat or cold
       | 
       | They have a place.
        
         | 486sx33 wrote:
         | This is an example with a 555 and a cmos IC, but 74 series TTL
         | IC could be used too. Personally more comfortable breadboarding
         | TTL circuits myself but that's just because I'm old
         | 
         | https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/555-timer-seve...
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Just reminds me of stumbling across a Hex -> Segment LED
         | decoder chip.
         | 
         | The chip was $17.
         | 
         | A RPi 0 is (was) $5.
         | 
         | Just one of those "Not in Kansas anymore" moments.
        
           | Rinzler89 wrote:
           | How much do the software development, and sw bugs in
           | production of doing it on the RPi cost you vs the battle
           | tested hardware hex decoder?
           | 
           | Just because you can do something on a RPi doesn't always
           | mean you should.
        
       | mikeInAlaska wrote:
       | As a 1970s kid, a tiny brilliant red LED 7-segment digit is the
       | most nostalgic display possible!
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Let me introduce you to the Nixie Tube[0]!
         | 
         | 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube
        
       | winrid wrote:
       | I repair old timing equipment (think Race America, JACircuits,
       | etc) as a side hobby, and a lot of it is large 7 segment displays
       | with individual LEDs in series for each segment.
       | 
       | I am so glad people didn't try using an LCD display or similar,
       | I'd never be able to fix them when the pixels/display panels go
       | bad and the original manufacturer is long out of business. LEDs,
       | shift registers, mosfets... all serviceable.
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | Users fixing things make the stock market sad. Better to force
         | them to spend hundreds on a new thing then chuck the old one in
         | the garbage even though it's 99% functioning.
        
       | theandrewbailey wrote:
       | Over the past 10 years, I've noticed that most gas stations near
       | me have replaced their pumps. They look like they have 7 segment
       | displays, but if you look close (as you do when you're standing
       | next to it pumping gas), they are actually high resolution LCDs
       | showing numbers in a 7 segment font. I'm sad for what
       | improvements could be had, but aren't.
        
       | deweywsu wrote:
       | Is this a hit piece by a high-definition display manufacturer? It
       | seems like an unnecessary litany of detractors against one
       | technology without a lot of alternative solutions or trade-offs
       | with others. At the end, there are only 3 sentences that could be
       | called alternatives with the heading "use high resolution
       | displays". Making a "helpful" paper that only lists problems
       | without comparisons or solutions misses all the reasons one would
       | use a 7-segment display (mentioned in the comments here so I
       | won't repeat). There's nothing wrong with this technology. The
       | title "don't use" is too inclusive and is not supported by the
       | paper. I think "Consider not using in certain applications" would
       | have been more appropriate based on the paper's body.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > Is this a hit piece by a high-definition display
         | manufacturer?
         | 
         | This was the exact thought I had. The paper strikes me as being
         | very odd, and the arguments against using 7-segment LEDs are
         | very thin.
         | 
         | I will agree with one thing, though: the right components to
         | use are an engineering decision and as with all engineering
         | decisions, the right choice (i.e., the right set of tradeoffs)
         | needs to be determined on a project-by-project basis. For a
         | given project, that may mean not using a 7-segment LED. Or it
         | might mean that's exactly the right choice.
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | Could also be a design decision. No reason to let the
           | engineers make all the choices.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | Huh?
         | 
         | As someone designing electrical circuits that might or might
         | not use a 7-digit display this seems rather to be a guide for
         | which use cases to avoid them.
         | 
         | Electrical engineers sadly sometimes don't think about that at
         | all and slap what they know onto everything. When you have a
         | medical device where a reading error or ambiguity can have
         | serious consequences you might want to be aware of that. There
         | are 7-segment-display usecases where that is not an issue
         | irrelevant, e.g. because you have enough contextual clues to
         | not hold the device wrong and read it upside down or because
         | the potential damage from a reading error is irrelevant.
         | 
         | But this is still a design consideration one should be aware
         | of. Especially in times where 7-segment displays aren't
         | necessarily the cheapest option.
        
           | doe_eyes wrote:
           | Most other display technologies have their downsides too. For
           | example, fot-matrix LCDs are far more fragile and more easily
           | damaged by sunlight or heat than 7-segment LEDs. If you don't
           | discuss that, but dwell on the downsides of 7-segment
           | displays, it does feel a bit like a hit piece.
           | 
           | In fact, 7-segment displays aren't even a monolithic
           | technology, and not all of the gripes in the article apply to
           | every implementation. You have traditional LED models, LCD
           | 7-segment displays, and then some OLED flavors, VFDs, and
           | even electromechanical designs in niche applications.
        
         | bowsamic wrote:
         | Considering the paper does not specify that it has no conflicts
         | of interest in the usual place where it would, we should assume
         | the author is involved with such manufacturers
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | Almost any 7 segmented display could be replaced by an analogue
         | gauge. For time, for temperature, for selecting options. When a
         | device has a segmented display, I assume it is to cut costs.
        
       | janaagaard wrote:
       | Upside down 7-segment display in Futurama:
       | https://youtu.be/1Q8E4hls_Zg?si=q5nMASH4PGgvEkHN
        
       | vladde wrote:
       | Posy made a wonderful video about different numbered segment
       | designs https://youtu.be/RTB5XhjbgZA
        
       | thesnide wrote:
       | Well, a TTL clock cannot be made otherwise...
       | 
       | https://leap.tardate.com/electronics101/digitallogic/digital...
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Don't use 7-segment displays (2011) [pdf]_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26373405 - March 2021 (78
       | comments)
        
       | gweinberg wrote:
       | The digits on my watch face look like 7 segments. Works great!
        
       | magicalhippo wrote:
       | One thing 7-segment displays does better than LCDs and OLEDs is
       | refresh rate. They can have a very high refresh rate, and this
       | can help detect noise or variation in the signal.
       | 
       | I have two lab power supplies, one with a 7-segment display and
       | one with an OLED. The 7-segment one allows me to easily see
       | issues with the circuit due to the refresh rate, such as unwanted
       | oscillations, which can be completely masked by the comparatively
       | slow refresh rate of the OLED.
       | 
       | I won't necessarily see each value, but I'll notice a slight
       | blurring of the least significant digit for example.
        
       | jccalhoun wrote:
       | so funny that this shows up today. I have been looking into
       | connecting seven segment displays to a raspberry pi
        
       | thrwwy6967362 wrote:
       | I actually prefer 7-segment displays as a user over high-
       | resolution alternatives. I love the 7-segment displays in my
       | Casio watch, calculator, multimeter, lab PSU and until recently
       | Canon 5D Mark IV (which had a 7-segment-ish display on the top).
       | I switched to Nikon Z8, which unfortunately has a higher-
       | resolution display, which I dislike the look of. It's all overly
       | smooth sans-serif[1]. I like the jaggedness of 7-segment
       | displays. I've also never experienced any of the listed issues
       | with them. Unfortunately, all mirrorless cameras have those high-
       | resolution smooth ones now (if they have the top display at all).
       | The one in Z8 is actually the least bad one I've seen.
       | 
       | [1]: On higher resolution I generally prefer serif fonts. In
       | particular, for coding I use Go Mono, which is one of very few
       | serif monospace fonts.
        
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